More on Chinese 'history'...

[Oddjob0226]

Ahoy!

I have a Chinese pen pal who lives here in TX. She's been laid off and starting October 15 will be going to China to visit relatives for the next month or so. While there, I asked her to find out more about certain aspects of Chinese society ... including - you know...!

Says she:

"Don't be sad, I was kind of happy, because I need some
change. I will bring all your questions to China; Little Cabbage, and tickling...."

She's actually going to do some research and talk to some relatives IN China about tickling, and report back to me. Finally, a possibility to separate the truth from the rumors!

Mike >>

 

[MaxSpeer]

If anyone can get the info you can.

In case people on here don't know, this guy is one of my oldest TK friends. We worked together for years on Tickling Media stuff and he penned the Treatise. We have been talking and researching Tickling in history and Media for longer than I can remember.

In fact, most of the Mainstream tapes being circulated are the combined efforts of Him, Mr Hyde, Ticklechgo and myself.

See where all your tax dollars are going? Anyway, if OddJob says he can get concrete info then you better believe it.

Great work, Bro!

Max

 

[sexypapi]

tickling in china??

i mean i have known several chinese people and they all say that tickling is seen as a sort of torture i iidnt know that it was even accepted....is this true?

 

[tkrexx]

This will be SO cool! ...But you forgot to mention, Oddjob: Is your penpal ticklish?

 

[MTJpub]

Oddjob0226

I look forward to your findings. Thank you for your efforts.

 

[Oddjob0226]

The Chinese tickling thing

Well, first of all -

Max: Don't know how I did it, but a year or so later, I can post! Apparently, there was some technical doo-hickey holding me back from being properly registered on the old Forum, So I could never post. Whatever was done to restart/refurbish this site worked out pretty well for me...

Second, yes, my e-mail pen pal has ticklish feet...

Thirdly, I don't know if tickling is "accepted" in China, but it was used as a punishment in past centuries... I'm sure we've all heard this. But I want to find out if it is true, since I have heard that it is... or that it is not.... so I am lucky enough to actually know someone going back to the "homeland" and is willing to ask around and get specific facts... Although Kujman has a great tale involving people being punished in China during the 6th Century ( or Dynasty, I can't remeber...!). Supposedly Marco Polo was witness to such goings on, and tickling WAS used later in Italy. Hmmmmm.....

 

[Oddjob0226]

Sad news.... Sad, sad news.....

My Chinese friend has cancelled her trip to China.... so no first hand "interviews" about the history of tickling in China......I was really looking forward to this....sorry, I can't go on.....

 

[Dave2112]

Actually, tickling is the only form of punishment on Pzor, where the indiginous lifeforms are little more than eyestalks resting on a pair of huge feet.

(I really have to wake up fully before I start posting....)

 

[qjakal]

Oh, Them....

You mean the beings with the long eyelashes that are used to torment the one being punished? I get them too if I have pepperoni pizza before going to bed. BTW Dave...nice limerick on the Helena thread! Q

 

[Dave2112]

Thanks, Q! Nice to see the "Wake-and-Bake" program is working....

 

[Oddjob0226]

Emphasis on the "Bake" part!

 

[Bagelfather]

Tickling as part of torture in China

I don't know currently what the veiws are but it was most definitely used in the past. To understand why you must first understand how Chinese law worked.

A Civil Service magistrate would rule each village. He would serve a three-year term before moving on. All the other administrators would pile work they would rather avoid, and he had to solve crimes.
To help him he would have three assistants (more like thugs) who would investigate vice and capture outlaws.

The Magistrate would personally try all the criminals in his court. Most trials are open to the public and held outdoors. He would freely have those involved in the trial or even the audience whipped for information or to maintain order.

(here is the key part)

A judge cannot reach a conviction until the accused person confesses. A judge may torture the defendant to obtain this admission. He may do whatever torture is necessary to obtain this confession (and some were quite cruel and extreme). But if the torture maims or kills the victim without getting a confession, the magistrate is punished with the full weight of the law.

Therefore it would seem that tickling would be a good choice in some cases as it is not likely to kill and would not maim the victim.

 

[dvnc]

Didn't know that, Bagelfather. Nice bit o' Chinese history. Knew they used it, didn't get that deep into it. Glad you did, brother.

dvnc

 

[Kujman1]

Tickling was used in China in the 6th dynasty extensively, and lesser so at other times... as recorded in books.

 

[Bagelfather]

6th Century, 6th Dynasty

Unfortunately there could be no reference to tickling in the "6th Dynasty," as the Chinese did not label their dynasties in that manner. I have outlined the history of China excluding the earlier or more ancient times pre 2000 BC.

(Dynasty and Years)
Xia - 2000 BC to 1500BC
Shang - 1700-1027 B.C.
Western Zhou - 1027-771 B.C.

Eastern Zhou was broken up into two sub periods from 770-221 B.C.

770-476 B.C. were known as the Days of Spring and Autumn. Confuscious perceived this period as the Dynasty collapsed as barbarians allied themselves with rebel lords.

From 476 B.C. to 221 BC were known as the Dynasty of the Warring States.

221-207 B.C. Qin which involved the unification of China proper and was known as the first Imperial Period. His dynasty soon ended after Qins death in 210 BC.

206 B.C.-A.D. 9 Western Han Dynasty

A.D. 9-24 Xin (Wang Mang interregnum)

A.D. 25-220 Eastern Han

The Eastern Han eventually collapsed under its own weight, riddled with corruption. The result was a series of Dyansties under the rulership of warlords known as the Three Kingdoms.

220-265 -- Wei
221-263 -- Shu
This was the period under which laws were unified, a single alphabet of pictograms were chosen, and the law was the letter of the law, without deviation under penalty of death. It was also during this time that China's name originated. Under the direction of King Cheng's astrologer he changed his name to Shih-Huang or first Emperor of Ch'in-a.

As the Chinese Emperor rules by the mandates of heaven, after all he is Ti's (God's) agent on Earth. It can easily be pointed that this was the turning point in the Chinese legal system.

229-280 -- Wu

A.D. 265-316 Western Jin
A.D. 317-420 Eastern Jin

Southern and Northern Dynasties A.D. 420-588
(Southern Dynasties)
420-478 -- Song
479-501 -- Qi
502-556 -- Liang
557-588 -- Chen
(Northern Dynasties)
386-533 -- Northern Wei
534-549 -- Eastern Wei
535-557 -- Western Wei
550-577 -- Northern Qi
557-588 -- Northern Zhou

A.D. 581-617 Sui
A.D. 618-907 T'ang

Five Dynasties A.D. 907-960
907-923 -- Later Liang
923-936 -- Later Tang
936-946 -- Later Jin
947-950 -- Later Han
951-960 -- Later Zhou

A.D. 907-979 Ten Kingdoms
A.D. 960-1279 Sing (two periods)
960-1127 -- Northern Song
1127-1279 -- Southern Song

A.D. 916-1125 Liao
A.D. 1038-1227 Western Xia
A.D. 1115-1234 Jin
A.D. 1279-1368 Yuan
A.D. 1368-1644 Ming
A.D. 1644-1911 Qing
A.D. 1911-1949 Republic of China
1949 AD to Today Peoples Republic of China.

 

[ktickler]

Hmmm...

Is this going to be in the test?

Very impressive. Thanks for the cool reference. I think I am going to print it out and post it in my room. Some day I will be able to recite them from memory.

Bye,

Knight Tickler

 

[Bagelfather]

It was you!

It was you after all Qin, and your little dog Totto too I suspect

 

[Oddjob0226]

Bagelfather - thanks for the detailed info! But, as far as getting information from someone without maiming them, wouldn't whipping be considered a potential maiming act?

This is what I've heard ( literally heard, not reserached ) about tickling in China:

From a Korean college student who has Chinese friends - No, tickling was never used....

From a Korean 'bath house' woman - Yes, it was used. China was deevied into 4 main parts, & each part had it's own laws. One part would use the death penalty pretty liberally. Another part made you wera a piece of clothing marking you as a criminal. Another part used tickling.....

A different korean bath house woman - Never heard about it....

From a Maylasian College student: Was offended about the question, inferring wrongly that I felt malaysinas werr the same as Chinese AND that the Maylasians were inherently a violent people (belive me, that's not how I phrased the question!)

From a Chinese college student: tickling was used on women when their husbands feared they may run away. It was supposed to be like a warning....

But I've also read that it was NEVER used on women, only men. So, you see, I've never really gotten a definative answer. Bagelfather, you've included the most detailed history of the workings of Chinese law I've ever read, and Kujman has sent me in the past an amazing case where two servants were tickled side by side. And I continually seek more info, only for social science, of course!