Perhaps reconsider the purpose of the board (regarding m/m, straight or gay)

[GoForTheLaugh]

I am pleasantly surprised that there are others reading this thread; it makes it harder for me to stick to my guns.

I am especially impressed by the courage HisDivineShadow and ChosenofMystra have shown in this thread. In addition, there is a more mature vibe here than I had previously experienced, and the people in this thread like some of the others on the board are not jumping down my throat.

Sadly, though, I did not come here to rejoin (although a part of me would very much like to, and that is the reason for the delay in my response). Instead, I came here hoping to find closure given my extreme anger over what happened here and to make people aware that gays, too, may have this fetish and may need to talk about it. If I had succeeded in getting my point across, other gays could have joined and, in a better atmosphere, would not have been made to feel like perverts for daring to be males who like m/m--the way I was.

I wish I could affect change, as Bugman implies, but it is the right of the moderators to run the board as they see fit. It is not my board, and I have no right to do anything beyond making suggestions. In the end, since only the converted are reading this, what does anything I say really matter?

If I rejoin after stating my case but not getting it across, am I not putting my wishes to understand my fetish ahead of the needs of the gay community? Every time someone posts against gay people, he or she makes bashing, discrimination, and other forms of hate a little more possible. I have been told to ignore it here by many of you, but didn't Jews in Germany originally feel that they could simply ignore Hitler's rhetoric because "It could never happen here"? Haven't some of my gay friends already moved to Canada because they cannot stand American bigotry any longer?

Would you tell Jews to ignore anti-Semitic remarks on this board? Would you tell African Americans to ignore racist remarks?

I don't feel safe here, and it is not a matter of being anonymous on a message board (as Myriads states). When I am not accepted, it is not good for my mental health. And if I stay on the board despite the nonsense that goes on, I am saying that it is all right for people to abuse me.

It is not all right. I have more pride in myself than that.

I also have pride in the queer community.

I have one option only: Leaving in pride, refusing to be the object of scorn, not taking part in the bashing of my community.

With respect (and with thanks to those few who are not bigots and a special note of appreciation to Myriads for being an incredible human being), I request that you delete my membership.

 

[IrishTickle]

Every time someone posts against gay people, he or she makes bashing, discrimination, and other forms of hate a little more possible.

Everytime you walk away you make it even more possible. Everytime you do nothing you make it more possible. But everytime you fight it, you make standing up against it possible.

In all honesty, I can only guess at how hurt and angry you are, but giving up is not really setting a good example for anyone anywhere. You're not the only gay person in the world, and certainly not the only one here. You did a good job at speaking out, but giving up only lets everyone who said anything bad about you win. And it may not be the last time.

As my old English teacher told "Never let the b*stards drag you down!"

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Would you tell Jews to ignore anti-Semitic remarks on this board? Would you tell African Americans to ignore racist remarks?

I don't feel safe here, and it is not a matter of being anonymous on a message board (as Myriads states). When I am not accepted, it is not good for my mental health. And if I stay on the board despite the nonsense that goes on, I am saying that it is all right for people to abuse me.

Whether you return to read this or not, I have one addendum. I administer the TickleTheater community with Mistress Valerie and Nessonite. I am also the longest-serving Staff Member aside from Noeyes and TickleTheater himself. In my time in those positions, I have seen what Myriads has stated here previously: the staff cannot be everywhere. The TickleTheater has and has had vastly less activity than the TMF. Even so, I and the other Staff cannot catch every issue. We see some, but often only after they have blown up. We rely heavily on users reporting actions that break the rules. One of those possible actions can and has been what you think we wish you to ignore: hate speech/general anti-gay sentiment done in an expressly offensive way. Myriads and the rest of us don't ask that you and others like you ignore these remarks: Myriads asks (And I suggest) simply that you report infractions. Rule breakers are dealt with, but only if they come to light. Additionally, to reuse an earlier example, if a moderator sees such a post and then a post by someone like yourself, who is openly gay, right after taking no notice of it, they think all is well. I suspect that TMF staff, like those of us on the TickleTheater staff, dislike deleting posts without cause. Someone reporting a post as offensive gives them that cause. We cannot stop the hatred without the help of those who are affected by it. By reporting violations of what is here called "The Golden Rule," you help the Staff clean up the violations and give them notice that if the offender posts similar messages in the future that they should take action, knowing how earlier messages hurt.

My earlier comment about the ignore feature was merely a suggestion of an additional weapon, not a replacement for reporting hate speech. No one should ever have to ignore what breaks the rules. They merely have to, as I said, report the breach. Then it can be removed and the violator warned. Repeated violations lead to banishment, as those who break the rules for any reason time and time again are not welcome in a place such as the TMF.

I am sorry you have decided the TMF is not for you. Myself, I believe it is a mistake to leave. I've not been here forever and, indeed, by the standards of many "oldbies" I am a greenhorn, a newcomer. However, even this newcomer knows a good thing when he sees it. He also sees that, like any good thing, the community that enjoys and finds good in it must band together and help keep it good for everyone. Smokey Bear says "Only you can prevent forest fires." Well, the message here is similar: "Only you prevent forum flaming." The moral is simple, the purpose clear: report a flame and give the staff the opportunity to snuff out that flame before the hatred within it reaches out and scalds us all. One person burned means we all are burned. One for all and all for one.


Cheers,
HDS

 

[Bugman]

I'm sorry you have made that decision also."The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke.

 

[ChosenofMystra]

I'm also sorry to hear you are leaving. Its a pity that things couldn't have worked out better for you.

Good luck in life my friend!

No government has the right to tell its citizens when or whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody. ~Rita Mae Brown

 

[Strider]

Would you tell Jews to ignore anti-Semitic remarks on this board? Would you tell African Americans to ignore racist remarks?

Actually, I would (and I'm Jewish), but I'm something of a free-speech absolutist in such matters.

Anyway, I don't know you, so I don't know why this is bugging me as much as it is, but you really shouldn't leave. It'll accomplish nothing, other than to reinforce your own sense of alienation.

 

[Myriads]

If I rejoin after stating my case but not getting it across, am I not putting my wishes to understand my fetish ahead of the needs of the gay community? Every time someone posts against gay people, he or she makes bashing, discrimination, and other forms of hate a little more possible.

The needs of the gay community? You are a gay man, but they are not going to revoke your membership card if you do not succeed in defeating every instance of bashing that you encounter. And being the object of such does not degrade the gay community by 'making it more acceptable' It makes you the object of a act that is not allowed here. And one that will will be handled if it's reported.

Your 'community' mostly needs you to be a responsible person who represents the best qualities that any human can possess. In doing so you show that you are just like all others. Human.

Any community that expects more is expecting too much.

You have intelligently and respectfully stated you concerns and have successfuly done so. In response to your 1st post in this thread, I and many have replied. You have heard from other members of the forum directly, and have seen threads on topics progressing with respect and candor.

By your last post you admit to seeing the improvement in our community that has happened in the short time since you were first here.

It seems the TMF and its members are doing pretty good, and have made a major dent in the issues you faced on the site before.

Yet it's not good enough. You have damed us for the past and there is no redemption. From my side that could be a real good excuse for saying 'why bother' to try anymore. We can't win, so why play? Nothing will be good enough ever. How depressing. Written off. Personally I see you as a win for the rude folks. They have successfuly radicalized you with their actions, and alienated you from those who do listen and respect.

You seem to be looking for a battle here. And to your surprise, the war never started while you were away. There are drive by shootings, but even then your fellow community members report that they are well handled.

You've played your part in the fight, and I have no doubt that should you stay, you will continue to. Members like you are always appreciated. And you have more then earned the right to look to your own personal questions and needs.

I don't feel safe here, and it is not a matter of being anonymous on a message board (as Myriads states). When I am not accepted, it is not good for my mental health. And if I stay on the board despite the nonsense that goes on, I am saying that it is all right for people to abuse me.

If this is the case then the issue is not one that the TMF has, it's an issue that arises from your life experience, and applies to a lot more then just the TMF. I note that you didn't reply to the Applebees question that I presented above. It is very applicable to this instance. It sounds as if you are easily made uncomfortable in a situation, and that saddens me. For it might mean that many places are easily ruined for you by the actions of the very few.

I know few places that can ever be 'good enough' to never have the possibility of being offensive to you. In my eyes you face a life of having memories and locations ruined by the crude few. Til you are reduced to a small circle of places you feel 'safe' in.

I'm sorry to see that.

Abuse is a factor that will pop up everyplace. Hell, a random person driving down the street shouted something rude at me and a friend a few nights back that implied that 'a man like me' couldn't be with a woman 'like her' without paying. What's up with that?

Should I not feel safe outside my local shopping mall now? Perhaps avoid it so I don't let down my community (ugly middle aged males)?

That's silly. I was living my life, and some asshat chose to be rude to me. I dealt with it (by ignoring it, other then sharing a 'what the hell' look with my friened) and moved on.

Once you alter your life because of things like that you have given something up.

It is not all right. I have more pride in myself than that.

I also have pride in the queer community.

I have one option only: Leaving in pride, refusing to be the object of scorn, not taking part in the bashing of my community.

We are all targets at times in our lives. In being a target you don't dishonor your 'community'. Why? You clearly do not allow yourself to be a victim. So you have no loss of pride.

Leave or stay. It's an option that will always be open. We don't delete accounts here. Your's will remain.

Myriads

 

[venray]

"I made up my mind when the members of this board made it clear to me how unwelcome I was. That was in 2005, and what people here honestly believe still stings. "


This troubles me my friend to the point where I must ask....How many individual members here made it clear to you?

How many individual members out of the thousands that visit here have pm ed you or made derrogatory remarks in your threads?

I only ask this to put your remarks in proper perspective.... I would tend to believe that the actual number is small and the percentage miniscule....

I have found a great deal of tolerance for all lifestyles here on the forum over the years, and as Myriads has said, it is not perfect but it is getting better....

Do I believe that you should have to tolerate ANY such remarks or PMs? No I do not, but in life we all have our "crosses to bear" so to speak.....

Reporting and ingnoring the dweebs of the world make it easier to rejoice in the friendship shown by others......

Best wishes to you whatever you decide, but as I said to you once before you left us the last time...Giving up because of a few means they "win" and sets back progress....

Sticking around in spite of the asswipes makes us all stronger as a community.....

Be well and know that you DO indeed have far more friends here than those few small minded souls that dont know how to function in society....


Ray

 

[maniactickler]

Goforthelaugh, i think your making a mountain out of a mole hill. there are people in this world who are going to dislike and pick on all kinds of different minorities. who gives a crap. thats the way it is and always will be. just deal with it. believe it or not, life will go on!

 

[Krokus]

Wow!!

So much to be said here. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now, since I'm not on my PC. Next week I'll have my connection back, and then I'll post my thoughts. I have quite a few of them, regarding this thread. =P

 

[Krokus]

All I can say is that Krokus is man for being open on the board. I have absolutely no respect for these two dozen men you cite. What is the point of coming out if you have to hide on the board like a scared little boy?

We, the staff, all quite like Krokus. If you get a chance ask him what part the TMF played in his choice to be open and how it supported him during that process. I'll hazzard a guess that his opinions of the forum are rather positive.

Myriads

GFTL, my friend, let me tell you. I can't put into words how much the TMF helped me. I consider the year that I came out, to be the most difficult year of my life to date. Everything and everyone around me changed. In my personal life, I had people stab me in the back, whom I would have never suspected. I was constantly provoked by my stepdad, and I was mocked by my distant family. My former girlfriend, whom I had been engaged to, despised me, and for good reason. I lied to her, and then broke her heart when I came out to her. She hated me for awhile, but she eventually forgave me. Honestly though, it was harder for me to forgive myself, than anything else. It all came to a head with me being assaulted outside of a nightclub, although I am fairly certain that I was jumped for my leather jacket; whether or not me being gay had anything to do with it, I couldn't say.


I must admit, my first few years here at the TMF, I was an asshole. I won't lie, I was an ASSHOLE. I made horrible remarks, and homophobic slurs. (Just ask shiningice, and I'm sure Myriads remembers as well) ... The point is, I was pissed off ALL THE TIME. No matter what I said, or did, the feeling never went away, or got any better. I created an image, of a homophobic asshole. Looking back, that was my way of "coping", so to speak. I knew what the truth was, but I was too ashamed and angry to face it. I lashed out at everyone around me as a way to deal with the inner struggle.


Then, I started to talk with some of my good friends here on the TMF, and they helped me realise that it was OK to be gay. They helped me realise that it wasn't worth it to deny what I am, and to act as if I am something I am not. They helped me find the strength to face what I thought I would never be able to. For the first time in my life, I felt as though I had been "allowed" something... That sounded weird, but you get the point. Now, it didn't happen overnight, and lemme tell ya, it WAS NOT easy, but I have no regrets. Coming out, and being open, has been the most liberating experience of my life. I have the TMF to thank, for giving me my life. Thanks to this little corner of the web, I am finally living my life.


Of course, from time to time, you get the occasional "You are going to hell" speech. You know what? If God is up there, and he is watching over me, he knows the life I lead. He knows that I do my best, and that I help people, and that, to the best of my ability, I am my brothers keeper. He knows that I try to follow Christ's basic principle: Love one another. So, when I die, if I am destined to burn in an eternal lake of fire, simply because I have sex with men, then quite frankly, he's not a God I want anything to do with.


I can't imagine how you could have been treated so badly on this site. I'm not calling you a liar, I'm simply saying that I had such a positive experience, in regards to coming out here, thats it's difficult for me to comprehend. Either way, with all due respect, I think you need to change your attitude. If you go around with the mentality of "All straight people hate me" ... Then I feel sorry for you. If I had thought that way when I came out, hell, I would have slit my wrists. My best friends in life, are ALL straight (with the exception of my boyfriend, obviously) ... There IS hope, man.


Make a decision. You can either fight, and not back down, and not let anyone drive you away, or you can lie down and die. The choice is yours.



I know for a fact that there are many gay men on this site. I do not judge them for not being "open" on the site. I made a decision to be open, I do not expect them to follow. I respect anyone who doesn't prefer to talk about their sexual orientation, or "advertise" it, so to speak. I simply chose to do so, in the hopes that I could meet fellow gay men on this site, which I have succeeded in doing. Contrary to popular belief, the world is truly a beautiful place.


I'd like to talk with you on a more personal level, GFTL. Feel free to PM me, should you wish to do so as well.

 

[tickler_n_black]

I am the ****** of the board, after all, the one who is different.

???

You don't want people to call you that ... yet you keep calling yourself that. My advice is don't tell them you are what you don't want to be called, it just confuses people. Just a thought that might help you be less anxious over this issue.

 

[Bugman]

Krokus,one hell of a post.You have overcome a lot as i can see,and you should be proud of that.If you ever find youself in K.C. give a holler,would be glad to crack a cold one or three with ya.And welcome back,glad you got your puter issues resolved.

 

[Krokus]

Krokus,one hell of a post.You have overcome a lot as i can see,and you should be proud of that.If you ever find youself in K.C. give a holler,would be glad to crack a cold one or three with ya.And welcome back,glad you got your puter issues resolved.

Thanks man. If I ever am in KC, I'll give you a shout!