Thanks for the reply it is helpful in carrying the discussion forward.
There is a sampling bias in your argument. You fail to note that there are lots of unattractive males that attract partners also. Just because you can’t, and those that you cluster within a silo community where you echo chamber your feelings doesn’t mean that your situation produces the same results in all other males that are ‘equal’ to you in your own eyes. Many succeed. Your experience is not universal. And as such its not a great foundation for an argument.
And the "women are biologically noble and males are peasant" outlook is a line of thought that was discarded quite some time ago by experts in the social and biological fields. It’s junk-bin stuff these days.
Males and females use DIFFERENT criteria to pick mates. Looks are one point of difference. There are many others. The genders don’t approach from the same set of views, and it’s one reason social interaction is complicated. Both sides need to understand the others ‘language’ well enough to play the social game.
I’ve also observed that your fellow community members tend to reject women that do approach them when they don’t meet their own beauty standards. There seems to be an element of wanting specific partners that meet a high standard rather then any who might show interest. It’s an interesting hypocrisy in the Incel outlook. How would you handle a woman who did accept your approach who turned out to not be as ticklish as you hope, or where you hope? Are some women ‘better’ then others, and you only want the ‘better’ ones? Perhaps women want ‘better’ partners also.
It IS an ideology because it’s an opinion put forward by part of the greater group of all males that fall into the conditions you note. Not all men hold your opinion. Your beliefs are not a “fact” they are the experience of yourself, and a number of others. That’s a data point. Not a fact. A large number of your fellow males hold different outlooks that are counter to your ‘fact’.
Also it’s not that you CAN’T find a partner, it’s that you have YET to find one. There are no promises of speed in achievement of a relationship, nor even that you do get one. There is a core of entitlement in your statement that underlies the opinions. It’s not a good look.
Yet many of your fellow males with your exact same condition achieve relationships. Why did they and not you? There are numerous reasons, and most of them lie not in what you are, but how you present that. And rejection is something that almost every male faces in their life. You ask and are turned down. It happens. You take it as feedback, and move on to try again.
I’m interested to see what you considered a joke in my earlier note. I’ve not demeaned your situation nor made light of it. You are projecting your own feelings into my words to see what you want. If I was out to make a joke of your situation you’d 100% know it.
It’s regretful that you and your sister suffer social anxiety. It can be a crippling mental handicap. It limits options and opportunities. And yes, depression is one of the real possible outcomes from dealing with it. Hopefully you can find appropriate aid that can improve your situation.
It’s good that your sister found a partner in spite of the same handicap that holds you back. Do you think the rich boyfriend settled for her because she was an available woman and he had no other options? Or perhaps was he attracted to other qualities then the fact she was a body to fuck? I ask because thats the exact argument your ‘philosophy’ says is in play here. She gets laid because she’s simply a woman, and males will take her for no other reason then that ignoring all other issues she may have. Does the argument feel a bit different when applied to your sister? Broad categorization of a whole gender can bite you like that.
The OP certainly stimulated a connection by the way he phrased his outlook. It matches the outlook of many Incels that I have encountered and debated with over the years. Many from this forum. It was worth pointing out the similarities as it let the OP see where his argument might have similar problems as the Incel ones does. No idea dropped is without context and history, and placing a line of thought next to a similar one is always a good stating point to begin discussion.
I also do not ‘hate’ the Incel perspective or philosophy. I pity it. I see it as a road that takes young men off into the wilderness and drops them off a cliff like lemmings. It is an attempt to move responsibility and blame from oneself to outside factors for ones state in the world. Which is a branch of fatalism that can infect people and move them toward radical positions. And that makes life harder for the entire society.
Finally I pity the view because it reduces women to sexual objects to be ‘fought over and won’ like some prize at a carnival. It makes sex the basis for interaction. And relationships are about so much more then sex. To focus on sex to the exclusion of all other things that can flow from interaction is just sad. It’s as if the Incel philosophy regards all of that other as worthless, sacrificed on the alter of getting laid as the only thing that matters.
I built this forum to SPEAK to the ‘weak and isolated’. For 20 years I and the staff here have worked to build a place where people who feel alone, weird, and wrong about what they like have a place to talk. So making the argument that I dismiss such folk is a pretty silly one. But again, I read that as projection of what you want to see on me, not what is. So it’s cool.
Myriads
1 Those males achieve relationship through social dominance, status, money. It has been proven again and again. Also, women ARE de facto biologically noble since it only takes one men to breed with several women while a women won't breed successfully with a lot of men. Also, wanna talk about gametes? Male gametes are only aviable some days at month for 25 years while male gametes are available ALLWAYS every day by the billions from puberty to death. Women ARE biologically noble simpel because the male gametes are hyper inflated and this is why nature designed men willing to mate to nearly every woman while woman pick the best man since they have inner consciousness about the fact that they are risking more and investing more when it comes to sexual intercourse since their eggs are terribly limited in relation to male gametes
2 No, this has been answered several times and it's frustrating even to start answering it again: we do not reject women that don't fit our stereotypes, we tryied with several women and allways got rejected and with times we started being isolated even by normie men so we formed our own circles with people with the same experiences and the same unluck
3 As stated in point 3 inceldom is NOT an ideology, rather a group of people with different backgrounds, different political ideology, different age, differen EVERYTHING that share a common problem. Saying "I'm an incel" is STATING A FACT not an ideology. Is stating that you can't have a partner no matter how hard you tried (and you know nothing about me but i can assure you i've tried several times and been rejected even by fat ugly women why they enjoyed multiple partners. SImply i wasn't able to compensate my aspergerism with decent amount of look, money, social status, labour skills and so on and so forth). If a man doesn't share my belief (which belief? LoL) and he is not able to find a partner, guess what, HE IS STILL AN INCEL, wheter he likes that or not, he is de facto an INVOLUNTARY CELIBATE by the mere definition of that term
4 Lol, again, ignore all the evidence i gave especially about my life and start the NPC talking with the same catch-word, catch-phrase and so on. "Entitlement" allways the same fucking words (then wonder why they call you npc) even without a single evicende of "entitlement!!!111" or even without knowing shit about my life and the hardship i went through. Same lack of understanding and compassion and capability to analyze stuff instead of going full-ideologist.
I don't have a girlfriend yet? You know what "trends" are? You know what "observing a trend" means? I don't have a girlfriend and i can't for sure foresee the future but i can analyze my lived experience (i'm not a kid anymore and i lived enough to notice stuff) and see how the trend was, why it was like that, why it will probably never change due to low possibilities at work, aging, being more and more lonely and socially incapable so i can make a quite good prediction even if not 100% sure (like every other prediction)
5 My sister isn't "getting laid" she has friends, companionship and a well off partner who will probably marry her. She is 100% like me in looks and very similar in personality. The only discriminating factor is SHE IS FEMALE. This is something even her admitted and even my parents did. She has higher SMV thane me for being a woman and social insecurities aren't seen as a turn off or "lack of femininity" (like they are lack of masculinity for me) by male partners that instead find them quite interesting since they feel like they are helping a cute girl. That's soooo simple. Why do i have to endure every rejection while she got to experience a wonderfull adolescence, being the one who rejected and still managing to find several guys despite her social problems? LoL reality denying at its finest here.
6 Typical woman shaming male incapability. You are hardwired to do so and to despise male weakness so i won't blame you for it, i'll just understand it's impossible to even have you to understand our position. Maybe you should try to do the same experiment Norah Vincent did (read her book) disguising herself as a man for 2 years and being at risk of a nervous breackdown because of that realizing how hard it is to be a low status feminine looking men. Guess what? The first ones to discriminate against her for her feminine looks were WOMEN not other men (rejecting her sexually). She even stated that women "has absolutely no clue" of what actually means to be a man (i'm not talking shit, search for her interview online, she exactly stated this). So maybe a little try would be appreciated instead of blaming even tho you'll never understand us seriously. Lol, many of my young male friends are incels with no jobs, in USA in the last yaer nearly 30% of youn men under 30 never had sex and 27% are virgins. 51% of 18-51 men are single. Do you really think it can go on that further after it explodes in serious phisical violence and violent revolution (maybe the only way we have to be noticed and loved by women)?
7 As stated in the thread and in point 6, I AM NOT SEEING WOMEN AS OBJECTS TO CONQUER (holy shit, americans, why did you dumb down so much?) i'm actually saying that i can't get women SINCE I 'M NOT CAPABLE TO BE THAT KIND OF MAN THAT THEY FEEL AS A STRONG CONQUEROR AND A RICH PROVIDER AND A STRONG EMOTIONAL HELPER. Women do love strong powerfull men. Again: thousands of studies and many ftm transexuals (and even the aforementioned Norah Vincent) experienced that. Women. Love. Powerfull. Men. The more they are free the more they tend to go for the bigger men, not the "egalitarian" or equal ones like i've allways been (or worse, men who are lower than them). Why do you think career women can't find "a good man" and just live alone and miserable. THERE ARE PLENTY OF GOOD MEN but they refuse to date down with a lower status man and they can't find an upper status man since they are at the top and have virtually no man over them. SIMPLE. BIOLOGY. Things are a little more complicated and biologically rooted than YOUR obvious ideology wants to make you believe
8 You entire post is a projection of what you want me to be and what you want INCELS to be, yet untrue, unaware, superficial and really irritating. How do you manage to match your beliefs with the facts that criminals have tons of women while good men, if weak, have often none? Or the fact that many incels love femdom stuff, weren't they male supremacists who only wanted to enslave women? Or the fact that the more sexually free women are the more they go for top tier men and leave the normal ones alone? Or the fact that the more sexually free our society becomes the more we see men going to prostitutes (in my country something like 50% of adult men admitted having been to a prostitute for erotic services or sex, a percentage that become higher and higer with time)? Don't you see the terrible contraddiction, the terrible dissonant paradox?
If you can't i swear this is the last message because i fully realize while they call all of you NPCs. You country, your generation and your gender just built you an ideological mindset simply impossible to question (and it is totally not related to reality, the worst part) and discussing stuff like that is simply wasting time. Only thing i have left is cheering about the fact that you are loosing more and more cultural power and your country is becoming more and more irrelevant.