The Agencies #10 a Horrible Disappointmen... and further commentary

[TickleFur]

For those who missed this on TMF, I'm re-posting an extended version of it here.

After almost a week and a half of waiting for my PayPal cheque to clear, I finally got my copy of The Agencies #10. Unfortunately, I have to be honest and say I was unbelievably disappointed. And this from a guy who has loyally bought The Agencies ever since the new format with the beautiful artwork.

The art is, as ever, FANTASTIC. But that's the only thing I liked. Mind you, while the artist is incredibly talented, it's clear to those with the eye for it, that this is just another gig for him (assuming it's a him). He's not a tickle-lover, not a fetishist. There's no passion, no love of the subject in his work, no true understanding of the tickling fetish.

There are are so few tickling panels, it's deprerssing. And many of the ones there *are*, are close-ups of feet or essentially repetition of the previous panel. It's ALL foot tickling, nothing else, and to be honest, I'm bored to death of the all-foot scenarios. I'm an upper body fan, especially the armpits, and we see so very little upper body tickling in tickle comics, almost zero. Can we please stop endlessly pandering to the foot people? 99% of all tickle art is foot-oriented as it is. How about the rest of us?

I recall messages in previous posts on TMF dealing with the release of #10 , saying there was going to be lots of nude chests. Am I wrong? Was that about #11? Everyone LOVED that *single* page of Veronica bare-chested, and I recall there being a promise to show a lot more. There isn't even a nice panty shot.

Starlight is a gorgeous woman, and drawn that way. What a waste we see so little of her. Which brings me to my next point, something Bandito has brought up before, and which I heartily agree with.

Tickling in this context, and of the kind found in other tickle comics and individual art pieces posted here and on Tickle Theatre, is a tickle FETISH. As in SEXUAL fetish. Tickling of this type is either foreplay for sex, or sex itself, or done during sex at the same time.

There is virtually nothing truly sexual in The Agencies, nor is there in most tickle comics for sale. Which is frankly ridiculous. This is a tremendously sexual subject, and no sexual edge? Please.

I really REALLY hope #11 is a hellava improvement over #10, which sucked. I'm still a fan of The Agencies, the girls have so much potential, I dearly hope it get better from here on in. Nudity, sexual moods, body tickles, and how about *girls who actually ENJOY* being tickled?

And concerning most of the tickle comics out there, and the larger portion of grown-up tickle art, what's with all the pain and punishement? Why is it always about hurting women, breaking them sadistially, tickling as genuine torture, revenge, cruelty, sadism and so on?

Why isn't it ever pleasure? Deep, erotic pleasure, where we know the ticklee is loving every second of her tickle session. That her pleading and staaaaps and no no no is all a game, part of the very consensual tickle session she's having, which, like anything so sexual, will likely culminate in orgasm. To see her begging for it, or saying Yes! I love it! or something like that.

Sure, we'll show violence, cruelty and hate, but never love and sex. Like the movies. Blow someone's brains out, but gods forbid you show lovemaking and nudity...

Sorry for ranting, but this issue really hit a nerve, and I finally let out publically what I've been bitching about privately concerning our fetish.

 

[The Bandito]

Okay....

I have to put in my two cents as well. You can't please EVERYBODY, but I agree with TF, this comic was very very very very disappointing to me. But the emphasis is on "to ME". I am sure that a lot of people LOVE this comic. I am sure it has been a popular seller. My main issue with the Agencies at this point is purely philosophical. I think tickling is about laughter, pleasure, sex, eroticism, orgasm, and even love. Agencies thinks tickling is about, sadism, torture, pain, agony, sterility, and even hate. In fact - Agencies is not a tickling comic at all - in my opinion. They are creating a normal "mainstream" comic, and INSERTING tickling instead of other torture. Their ticklee's HATE HATE HATE to be tickled. The only reason tickling occurs in the Agencies is to extract information, or "break" someone. I think if the Agency ticklers could illicit more pain with burning cigars out on womens feet - then I think they would. But its THEIR comic. I don't expect them to change how they feel about tickling. That's silly. But I feel compelled to throw out some of my opinions, because, perhaps, I am not the only one who feels this way.

So instead of talking about the philosophical changes I would like to see implemented (which I do not think is a reasonable request on my part) I will try to give some suggestions on what might make future comics appeal more to me (and perhaps others too

1.) The whole blue electricity/fire tickling.... It is cool that the girls have super powers. Personally I do not find electro shock tickling to be appealing. Does NOTHING for me. Fingers, feathers, fuzzies, fluffies, dusters, fur, paint brushes, rib ticklers, make up brushes, q tips, tooth brushes, etc etc etc - all make believable tickling devices. In my opinion - electro shock, fire, stabbing instruments, cactus, tennis rackets, etc etc etc do NOT make believable tickling tools. :weird:

2.) Pain. I would love to see less pain. Less nut crushing, less agony, less torture. I think it might be cool if at least one of the ticklees was aroused by tickling. She would not ask other people to tickle her (that would not make sense in the Agencies Universe), but when forced to deal with tickling, the agent could become unwillingly turned on. Might make for some fun dialog even. I just want someone in the comic to "like" tickling. I mean some of the Lers seem to like it - but only in a sadistic bitch, I love making this girl suffer way. Nothing the slightest bit erotic. Look at Tomato Dragon, Tykylfynd, Bac, Ozzy, Velly, and others if you want to see what I mean. Their art always has an erotic flair (even if it is sometimes a secret eroticism)

3.) Nudity. Please. Something. Seeing the agents wrists and fingers in issue ten was thrilling and all. But jeez o peet. I would love to see some more naked tummies, breasts, legs, asses. Call me weird, but tickling turns me on. Naked hotties also turn me on. As such, tickling naked hotties is a BIG turn on. That's the point of the comic right? I do not buy this series for intellictual stimulation, or emotional stimulation, I buy it for sexual stimulation guys :laughing: That one page of the magistrate was WONDERFUL. I read everything else trying to get to more of that. So basically I have paid like $130.00 for one page of truly erotic tickling. :exclamati

4.) Commitment. Seriously. Either this is a tickling comic or it isn't. I think its GREAT if you want to make a mainstream spy comic. I buy lots of mainstream comics. I think its TERRIFIC that professional illustrators are working on this project - their art work is top notch - really really good. But Agencies is marketed as a high quality TICKLE comic, on SEXUAL fetish forums. No nudity. No eroticism. No love. No sex. This universe is not based on tickling. It is based on spies, and danger. Cool - not a tickle comic. The babes don't "like" tickling at ALL... EVER. Let's be honest - the tickling is an after thought. The story does not revolve around tickling. The tickling is barely squeezed in (and always in an "insert torture method here" kind of way).

The Agencies is very very high quality. I appreciate all of their contributions to the community. I buy the comics......... (hoping, waiting). But lately, I buy them for good illustration reference - not because they turn me on in the slightest.

All this is strictly my opinion, and I only bring it up because I feel it is unfair of me to stop buying the Agencies comic without at LEAST giving some general feedback. As I said, you can't please everyone. I know, I know. But this comic has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH POTENTIAL. I truly hope we see some commitment and they stop pussyfooting around. Let's see some damn TICKLING. LAUGHING, WIGGLING, WRITHING, FONDLING, NAKED, FEATHERING, BEGGING, GIGGLING, BUCKING, JIGGLING, SQUIRMING TICKLING!!!!!! I know these artists are good enough to do it - please PLEASE stop playing it so safe. If this is going to be a tickle comic, then it should be THE tickle comic. The epitome of tickling. You guys can do better than this.

Hope I didn't piss anyone off. Not my goal. I love these forums. I love the art. I love the community. I just hate to see such wonderful potential being under utilized. For what its worth - I am sure I will still buy the next Agencies, regardless. But please please please hear my cries. Make the next one a TICKLING COMIC.

If any of the Agencies guys are interested in talking about it more. PM me. Otherwise - take it for what it is worth

Your fan - who's not afraid to ask more of you,

b

 

[10 armed tkler]

In just one deffence for the Agency's creator, he did say before the comic came out that it would be all foot tickling.

Other then that I agree with the two above posters.

 

[Darth Godflesh]

Wow!
Bandit 'n' Ticklefur
I can't add much more to your words
Another "hype" gone down
You know what really disappoints me?
That someone that is not familiar with the huge amount of material available on these and other forums will check that paid comic and may get the impression that tickling art is mainly that
I just wish you two guys could review the CDs I sometimes buy because your attention to detail is impressive (and sometimes, or most fo the times the newer albums are just plain sh%t)
Best wishes

 

[nessonite1]

I'm not entirely sure whether this should stay in the Art forum or not, since we don't have a forum where this would obviously belong. I applaud the first two posters though for providing such an in-depth reveiw. We could do with more commenary like that, be they possitive or negative.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I agree with Ness. It's actually quite refreshing to see that people aren't just being yes men (and women) towards the content providers so as to keep them producing. It's good to see that people who have a critical opinion are courageous enough to step up and give a review in the face of the heaps of praise already present. We've seen so much of people just praising, but now we have balance, which makes the effect of the product on the consumer much more honest. I don't want to assume what our content providers feel, but if I were in their shoes, I would welcome the reviews, good or bad, and encourage them for my benefit and so I can hear what the people want and balance it better with what I want personally.

This being the case, however, I feel it's equally important that people don't go too far and end up biting the hand that feeds you, so to speak. Theres a point where it's no longer about being displeased, but being rude and accostful.

 

[Cosmo_ac1]

In fact - Agencies is not a tickling comic at all - in my opinion. They are creating a normal "mainstream" comic, and INSERTING tickling instead of other torture. Their ticklee's HATE HATE HATE to be tickled. The only reason tickling occurs in the Agencies is to extract information, or "break" someone.

I just wanted to throw my own two cents in here. This quote here, i believe hits the nail on the Head. Now, i don't want to put words in Oblisks mouth, but i believe this is exactly what he has alsways intended for his comics to be. They are meant to be as mainstreme as possible with tickling thrown in for us tickling fans. This was the iniitial intent when he started his online comics, and i believe it will continue this way, and frankly i like it.

If you want tickling with more of an erotic edge to it, i'd recomend, i think it was issue 6. It involved two of the agents, one male and i think the other was starlight, engaging in some erotic tickle play with each other, with starlight being on the recieving end.

All that being said, i agree, constructive criticism is always good. As long as it remains respectful.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

If I was to ever share my mangas with you guys, and I was ever to include tickling in them from time to time, it would be as you are implying it is with oblesklk. Why? To maintain my comic's integrity, continuity, and future. Whether or not this is truely how oblesklk has approached his projects is something I'm not in a position to say, as I've never purchased any tickling or fetish comic from anyone anywhere in this community or any other.

If this would mean some of my audiance (obviously the fetish audiances who pick up that issue of my manga simply because it has tickling in it) don't like it, then, well, you can't please everyone nor should you want to as that can potentially compromise an artist or authorities own will and material.

That I included any fetish scenes at all should be appriciated at at least face value anyway by the people whom would like that (whether they actually have that fetish or where looking forward to it or not). Although, the problem could easily be that the artist did not intend the scene to look as though it was fetish in nature nor were they aware it would be taken that way. Its usually specific people that interprete it as such, and so naturally will be the ones to make mention of it (good or bad).

Someone who is a regular reader and not a fetishist would most likely just take it as a funny scene and not pay too much attention or put too much criticism into that one bit.

I think that for any personal project, especially one you're making money off of, it's important to put the series in perspective and prioritize certain things for the sake of survival of the series.

If it's true that he feels that way about his work, regardless of what he is or is not doing, then I'm sure it's because he knows what works, what survives, and what is too much too little.

If there is any dispute about that by his audiance, they are welcome to say something, but in this specific case of balance, he is not obliged, of course, to change anything if he feels it would compromise his property, material, or the quality thereof.

At any rate, I would much rather see a comic with less tickling and more plot and action/drama/comedy/adventure/whatever. This is smart, because it allows for further character and personality development and different, real-world situations rather than some continually unrealistic sexual fantasy thats in a constant limbo.

By making the tickling an inuendo or sub-plot, you specialize it, which actually does more good than harm, because it's a special treat when it does happen, since it's not happening all the time and you can appriciate the moment more when it does. This is especially true as it can be introduced unexpectedly, which increases viewer approval.

In a typical fetish comic (tickling in this case) you know what the substance of the comic is, it is a constant, and you expect and know whats going to happen, which almost trivializes any plots, dialogues, or scenes beforehand and after. Fetish comics (and for that matter, pornography) are specialized to a fault so anyone who goes a different direction but retains some of the elements is playing it smart.

 

[morgandee]

this can go in discussion just fine because i am king of this website and i run the show

 

[Mandrake]

I bought an issue of Agencies before, because I liked the artwork, but decided not to not get any more. I'm really only interested in stocking foot tickling, so it kind of narrows things quite a bit for me. While I understand it's probably rather expensive to make these comics, I think he charges way too much them. If they were five dollars an issue, I would probably get more of them, but 12 dollars is a bit steep for a 10 page comic, especially since you're not getting a hard copy.

Edit: Actually, looking at the sample pics for this, it looks like it contains a lot of stocking foot tickling. Is this true? Do you get to see the shoes removed too?

 

[taragohn]

To be really honest I have the first three Agencies issues and the first two Cyriaan chronicles and I did not buy more because I did not really like the last issues then. They need more tickling panels

 

[The Bandito]

I bought an issue of Agencies before, because I liked the artwork, but decided not to not get any more. I'm really only interested in stocking foot tickling, so it kind of narrows things quite a bit for me. While I understand it's probably rather expensive to make these comics, I think he charges way too much them. If they were five dollars an issue, I would probably get more of them, but 12 dollars is a bit steep for a 10 page comic, especially since you're not getting a hard copy.

Edit: Actually, looking at the sample pics for this, it looks like it contains a lot of stocking foot tickling. Is this true? Do you get to see the shoes removed too?

Mandrake: This issue does have a lot of stocking foot tickling. If that is your main thing - I feel like you would LOVE this comic! Not much else but foot tickling - and I think there is shoe removal, if I am remembering correctly.

Best,

Bandito

 

[ssu2]

I would think that somebody who is involved in the comic would either support or deflect these comments by now. But nobody has posted on its behalf, yet...

 

[laughinggaszone]

I would think that somebody who is involved in the comic would either support or deflect these comments by now. But nobody has posted on its behalf, yet...

Welcome to the internet. Most people are "trollish". Not in a derogatory way, but rather they are too busy to bother posting positive comments. They buy the item, enjoy it and move on. Ask any artist how he or she feels when they post a story or piece of art that gets 2000 hits, but two comments. The percentage of actual poster to members is a huge difference. In this case, the people who are unhappy just happen to be more vocal. I guarantee you that they are a minority. They always are.

As far as Agencies #10. I think its a fine book, but that is because I enjoy a little story with my porn. I will agree that I would PERSONALLY like to see more sexual content and tickling of certain body parts, and the same goes for MTJ's VU series. However, the creators never claimed it was a sexually driven project. People just seem to assume that since it's a tickling comic it is has to be sexually oriented.

If you want more sex and tickling, you can check our own stuff out when it comes out. It probably won't be as good, storywise, as Agencies and VU but it's not supposed to be. Of course, we'll probably get complaints that ours is too sex driven or too this or too that. People are more likely to complain because they are angry, disappointed ect. Those kinds of feelings prompt a response more so than positive ones do.
webmaster joe

 

[TickleFur]

A further look at #10

To Cosmo, Vlad, and everyone:

Well, if that's supossedly the case (regarding The Agencies as being "mainstream") why do they advertise as "Home of High Quality Tickle Torture Comics"? If it's a tickle comic, please make it a ~tickle~ comic. If that's not it's main intent, fine. But it shouldn't be billed as such. I buy The Agencies for tickling first and second, spy stuff third.

Also, I would like to say to everyone here that neither I nor Bandito have been rude, insulting, or disrespectful. Will simply expressed our views very clearly, no holding back, and unafraid. When I love something, I'm just as enthusiastic and articulate. But I'm not going to say something's good simply to avoid "biting the hand that feeds me."

I speak my mind, good or bad, no pulling punches.

Even from a foot-lover's standpoint, I feel that #10 was horrible. Pens? Electricity? That's it? Completely uninspiring.

Right, let's get to the details, shall we? In this 10-page comic there are (to my best count):

-61 panels in total.
-15 of those 61 contain tickling.
-7 of those are simply close-ups of Starlight laughing.
-All we have to tickle are pens, electric-style bolts, and 1 panel with water jets. That's it.

Furthermore, concerning Starlight herself. This gorgeous women has been given the XS-45 formula, which makes a girl HYPERticklish. In her chair, please note that her arms and torso are unbound. When Karma and the girls tickle her feet with fingers and pens, she should be wildly jerking and thrashing around - if it tickles that much.

She does not. She simply holds the chair and laughs.

When Karma turns on the tickle machine, which is supposed to duplicate her sister's tickle power to a greater degree and which is, and I quote Karma:

"One of the more unbearable feelings in the world. Even more so when they've been given a dose of the XS-45."

If this is the case, Starlight should be going absolutely bonkers with laughter, screaming and howling and laughing her head off. With no restraints on her upper body, she should be jerking and thrashing back and forth, convulsing, her arms flailing about, trying to free her feet; in other words, she should be in the throws of the most incredible tickles. Yet she simply sits there and laughs a little harder. Oh, and she also clutches her face.

How is a women, supposedly feeling such OVERWHELMING tickles, able to stay so calm, considering? It's utterly illogical and contrary to what should be happening.

I point all this out to back my opinion that this was simply a bad issue, all around. Extremely minimal tickling, and what there was, was badly done.

If this is harsh critiscism, then so be it. At least it's honest and, I fully believe, accurate. Oblesklk can do much better than this. He's a very good writer with a world that has *so much* potential. As for J. Giangiacomo, the highly talented artist, I'll say it again: his work is beautiful, the women are incredibly gorgeous and sexy. But there's no passion in what I see, no genuine love of the tickle fetish. And without the emotions that go into any piece of art, it lays flat. I would love to see something of his where he truly loves and enjoys the subject matter. Must be stunning work!

As a last note, I feel fully justified in my opinions because A) I paid good money for this comic, and B) I happen to care about what happens with The Agencies. I want it to be a great tickle comic. I only get this passionate in my views about things that matter to me.

 

[laughinggaszone]

If this is harsh critiscism, then so be it.

Yes, and the harsh criticism is required, why? So you can merely vent your frustrations at not getting it made the way you wanted? I understand that you feel your dollars were wasted, but the last three agencies comics have been pretty consistent, so if you're still buying them, then the fault, in my opinion, is your own.

As a last note, I feel fully justified in my opinions because A) I paid good money for this comic, and B) I happen to care about what happens with The Agencies. I want it to be a great tickle comic. I only get this passionate in my views about things that matter to me.

I'm sorry, but I have had enough of this crap all week. I've heard it spewed at myself as well as other producers and I'm sick and tired of it. You are no more passionate than the creator. If anything, he may be more passionate for creating, while you simply pay your dollars. Granted, they are hard earned (for most anyway) but you are still a consumer and he is a producer. Yes, you have a right to speak your mind and voice your disapointment. But just because you can be mean spirited and hard, doesn't mean you have to be. All of the posters who have decided to get on the bandwagon and trash producers...step back and ask yourself how you would feel if your work was being trashed by a handful of disgruntled assholes? Would you even bother listening to that kind of spew or would you listen to well thought out and critical opinions without words like "fraud" "fake" and "ripoff". Also, take into account that these works were not created expressly for your individual taste. You did not order these custom made and taylored to your preferences. These are made for a wide general tickling audience and as such, can please a majority, but not everyone. Case in point...I hate close ups of feet tickling. God damn waste of time to me. But I know that there are folks out there (a lot judging on the huge production of images and vids devoted to it) that just love seeing close ups of feet getting tickled. I put up with that, so I can see some big juggs getting tickled. If they don't do the juggs, I move on. I don't delude myself into thinking that I have some unwritten prearranged agreement with producers that they will know and produce content that I prefer as long as I plop my dollars on the counter. You want that, write a script and hire an artist or model to do it exactly the way you want. When it comes to general audience material, give some leeway and be polite in your criticisms.
webmaster joe

 

[BigNorm]

i've never bought any agency issues, but i am (or was) very soon, and i'm glad to hear a reader's point of view.

i suggest we make an art comic sticky, that would be great for the consumer.

here's another idea i've been pondering... have, amybe, a board of like 3 judges that has the job of like Ebert & Roepert, judging art comics and such for the average consumer, giving their take of it. i would buy more comics, but it's so iffy, if it's worth it, or not. because i would definitely buy more comics if there were someone who would report on each comic, giving them their un-biased opinions and scoring the comic thereof.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

To Cosmo, Vlad, and everyone:

Well, if that's supossedly the case (regarding The Agencies as being "mainstream") why do they advertise as "Home of High Quality Tickle Torture Comics"? If it's a tickle comic, please make it a ~tickle~ comic. If that's not it's main intent, fine. But it shouldn't be billed as such. I buy The Agencies for tickling first and second, spy stuff third.

As a last note, I feel fully justified in my opinions because A) I paid good money for this comic, and B) I happen to care about what happens with The Agencies. I want it to be a great tickle comic. I only get this passionate in my views about things that matter to me.

This is simple to reply to. You are experiencing what is commonly referered to as a catch 22.

You admit to liking the comic and wanting it's success, yet you are not satisfied with aspects of it to a point that it would be a failure, in your mind, or, already is in some ways.

Ironically, it is BECAUSE the Agencies is written and drawn the way it is (and not because it isn't) that enough people like it enough to buy it. If his choices were not respected, admired, or sought after, then he'd get 0 for his efforts.

From what I gather about it, his comic is different. Theres your sales right there. If folks were that dissapointed with it, especially if on a continual basis, yet the comic thrives regardless, then it is a matter of opinion, and not fact, that the comic is successful or not or needs to be changed.

Tell me how exactly "Home of High Quality Tickle Torture Comics" is not accurate or is misleading? Is he somehow claiming it is something more than it actually is?

1.) It is high quality, far better than I've seen from any other producer here.

2.) It does have tickle torture in it.

3.) It is a comic (a given).

4.) It is A home of such material.

How is making such a statement, especially as an advertizement, incorrect?

Because it doesn't give SOME the level of satisfaction they EXPECT, therefore billing it as such is off the mark and deceptive? It gives the majority what they want from him. If it didn't, he'd of packed his bags or gave in and did more of what is already overdone here with the other magazines and their providers. He is being different and his work apparently thrives on substance and more depth than the usual fare. That's what brought him to the dance, and thats what he needs to stick with, in my opinion.

Should he take people's suggestions seriously and maybe consider tweaking some things or adding in something every now and again based on popular feedback? Certainly, if he wants to do that.

Should he change the whole concept of how he's approached his work because a portion don't agree with it? Hell no.

If artists, authors, and other creators allowed themselves to be swayed too often (perhaps at all) by what a majority or minority says, then they lose what makes them them and their ideas are no longer their own, and, when that happens, something special is lost- individuality.

 

[dnc2423]

I loved it. Very high quality, great art, and it's an ongoing comic book style story involving tickling, but not 100% tickling all the time. I loved the stocking feet scenes and hope there will be more. It's fantasy, it's fiction. Very well done.

Ofcourse, we'd all want more tickling, but the comic is telling a story.

Maybe if more artists out there created more material like this everyone would be able to find exactly what they wanted.

 

[Kalamos]

I guess it's about offer and demand.
A lone complaint does just so much; sale figures are much more meaningful to publishers.

I wonder if they can strike a balance between mainstream and fetish action, and find a happy medium where both vanilla and fetish readers can be satisfied about a given comic.

 

[juggernaut]

No big deal. It's certainly okay to review it, good or bad. But I doubt anyone one likes every movie they see or every meal they order, but they don't stop going to shows or restaurants. If this one wasn't your taste, write it off and hope the next one is more to your liking. If they don't seem to be what you're looking for more often than not, buy something else. The producers aren't likely to change the gameplan based on the opinions of a few dissatisfied customers they weren't pandering to in the first place.

If it really sucks and is poorly reviewed across the entire board for a while, then you'll eventually end up with something like the collective opinion of FM Concepts I see here. So far, The Agencies doesn't seem to be flirting with disaster as I'm also seeing positive feedback.

 

[somebody231]

And many of the ones there *are*, are close-ups of feet or essentially repetition of the previous panel. It's ALL foot tickling, nothing else, and to be honest, I'm bored to death of the all-foot scenarios.

Sounds good to me!

And one thing: I personally like non-nude tickling more than nude-tickling... And I like the "plot"/"interrogation" scenes alot more than just "hardcore/sexual tickling".
You can say what ever you like, but I'll keep my stance on this... I've never bought online tickling magazines or the alike, but all I can tell you is that your description on this "Agencies 10#" makes me even more want to buy some magazines

 

[oblesklk1]

Few good points here, so I'll poke my nose in.

First, I haven't been ignoring this thread. Quite the contrary, it provides feedback from a variety of people that I've been desperately soliciting for years now. And now that it's finally coming in, I can hardly complain The reality is that we suffered a nasty virus attack on our first comp, and it's destroyed my access to post on these boards (long story, but it seems I'm up and running on these boards now). But more to the point, I'm glad I haven't posted on it until now, because it gives the entire thread a bit more honesty to it.

Second, when I get feedback, be it positive or negative, one of the first things I do is assess how important it is to the books as a whole. Is it coming from a personal perspective, or a macro perspective? Is it a criticism of my work, or of the tickling art community as a whole? Some criticism is personal in nature, and isn't always of critical importance, whereas big picture oversight issues are definitely something I need to consider and try to improve. I believe both have been addressed in this thread quite well.

I love this universe and its characters very much, and use explicit sexual situations in rare circumstances because of my own personal beliefs of what it does to the characters. Now, that doesn't means I'll never do it (two quick examples, Veronica is topless in issue nine, Starlight is topless in issue six), but if every issue has nudity in it, then it ceases being special to any great extent. I am starting a new comic line that will be a bit more sexual. I want to experiment with such myself. But I don't feel that "The Agencies" is the place for it. Again, that isn't to say it will never happen, it just won't be every issue. I try to look at the big picture when I write these stories, and I will not add in items just to sell books. It just isn't my style, and never has been. Even when doing TickleTown for several years, we constantly had requests to include nudity in shots. It just wasn't my scene, even though it would've given us a slew of sales. Especially since those models were not porn models, and really were the archtype "girl next door." Such would be foreign to them, and it's somewhat similar to what I'm doing here, as weird as that sounds. I don't want these characters to always be seen just as fetish objects, but actual characters that the readers can form attachments to. When you fetishize a person or character, you run the risk of stripping away their humanity, and that's a very real danger in my mind to making this universe come alive.

Third, these are tickle torture comic books. I can show them to my mainstream friends, who read really well done comic books almost as a second job, and they would be bored to tears. Although I love "The Agencies", they would make terrible, awful mainstream books. There is very little plotline or any real character development. I try to put them in where I can, but let's be honest, there isn't room for much when you have requests for 8 out of the 10 pages to be pure tickling. So although they may not be as sexual in nature as some would like, they are, by their nature, tickle torture books because no one else would read them for very long They are marketed to ticklers, most of which (not all, naturally) have fantasies that include some level of sadism that would be immoral and illegal to enact in real life.

I want this series to be styled artistically after "The One that Got Away" Remember reading as a kid and adult all the comic books that had their heroines in positions and situations where tickling would've been perfect? I wanted to take those fantasies and early frustrations, and finally turn the level of artwork into something that it could've been. So having outside artists is a double edged sword. We definitely run the risk of having the final product looking soulless, without a strong passion. But the final product will also be unlike anything anyone's ever seen before.

Consciously knowing this, the outcome of the final product is ultimately on my shoulders. These are outside artists, so they may not share the intense passion for tickling that we do, but they will also put in any and all detail I write in, regardless of how anal or meticulous it is. So any repetition will be my fault, it is not really the artist's fault. It can be blamed on my desire to keep with a tight deadline, and just letting good work slide, instead of insisting on incredible work and detail. Just think of it like a film, you wouldn't blame a bad film on the cameramen, it is the director that makes something beautiful out of nothing, or bumbles it all into making garbage out of something that could've been epic.

To expand a bit on what I mentioned before, I have written one non tickle torture book. It was issue six of The Agencies. It invovled around the loving relationship between Starlight and her boyfriend Kedrick. No tickle torture, no pain, no screaming, just two lovers enjoying each other's company. It wasn't the best piece I'd ever written, but it was alright. It also has the dubious honor of being the lowest selling Agencies book we've ever had. Whereas any issue that focuses on sadism and high tickling content, are not surprisingly, best sellers. I have received dozens of requests over the years to turn up the intensity...make it more tortorous, more crazy, more fantastic. Some of the best loved artwork in the history of our community has strong elements of sadism and domination involved. The new comic line we are producing right now actually goes into the main character learning to love the intense torture she's put under. So it's an element I've not covered before, that I'm interested in seeing. So it will be more sexual in nature. And it will be much more sadistic in nature than The Agencies.


It is late, and my thoughts are many and muddled right now. I just wanted to post a quick note or two before I go to bed, but I'll write more at a later time if need be.

Regardless of opinions about individual issues, I am glad to see a passion growing for these stories. Let's hope we can steer that passion to a good end

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I don't want these characters to always be seen just as fetish objects, but actual characters that the readers can form attachments to. When you fetishize a person or character, you run the risk of stripping away their humanity, and that's a very real danger in my mind to making this universe come alive.

This capitalizes what I've said (particularly the bold type, which is the bottom line of this matter), especially as it comes from your mouth, as the creator. Bravo.

What you say echos what I think when I have been approached by requestees to do this or that with my characters or even with fanart. Its not that doing it is wrong or completely contrary to the purpose of the character, as it is but one type of situation a character could possibly be in, but if you focus on something and make it the world to this character, for this character, etc, then you kill them and whatever plot is there is so miniscule that having it is next to pointless.

People want characters they can either identify with or attach themselves to. It is to the joy of the creator when this happens, and both parties win.

Characters based in fetishism work contary to this. Their life is tickling and theres less and less to know or respect about them since they're more a prop or tool to achieve a moment or sensation that is ultimately fleeting, even fictionally.

I do not want to assume why (other than larger profit or marketability) or under what conditions or circumstances Tomato Dragon has taken his Stipplewitz character to the mainstream (nothing to do with the fetish, a complete reworking not associated), but I would imagine that such thoughts as the ones you and I are having here or have on a regular basis are the same or similar to him or they have crossed his mind.

The thing fans, readers and customers have to realize is that we love our creations and we take them seriously. Sometimes we love them so much that we treat them as if they were real people in the real world and we're defending their honor, remaining loyal, and doing whats best for them, especially morally.

Readers forget that we have more to think about than what happens on an issue per issue basis. We who take it seriously have a slew of matters to contend with, all of which can harm our creations if not handled properly.

They sometimes or completely forget that we're protecting, not sanctioning our creations.

Fanservice is great. It lets the fans of a particular liking know you acknowledge them.

To do anything more than that however compromises what we've worked hard to create. Even if it is a fetish comic its just common sense to want to give flavor and life to the characters (something that can only be done by expansion). Selling the soul of the characters, in this case, just for increased sales would be very bitter-sweet or just plain bitter.

As I said before, it is your willingless and desire to do things different that has made your creations unique. Not so much that but your mentality about it as well.

As I said, these qualities are what brought you to the dance, and I hope you never lose them, for your sake. It would be a terrible shame if you became simply typical. You're in such a way that several others are not, and you have an underappriciated advantage right now. I'd continue to bank on that, if I were you. It is the key to your success here, regardless of the matter this thread addresses.

 

[morgandee]

^ what he said rofl