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the state of the current tickling industry

Following on from my previous post, here is a good example. I have currently noticed this clip http://clips4sale.com/tickling-in-russia/Kira.+Tickled+in+hogtie+(HD+720p+MP4) and IF there was a decent length preview I could watch I may well buy it. However I have so far not managed to find a preview clip.

Yet it ticks all my usual boxes, bare foot, attractive, slim pale skinned model who by the animated gifs appears to be very ticklish but I can't be sure (due to no preview) so I won't waste my money, I know from experience that company sometimes makes EXCELLENT clips and other times makes weak clips and I don't intend on wasting money on the later.

You will notice there are other clips with that model (Kira) on their store, so hopefully for both me (and that producer) one of those clips will appear to be free at some point and I will enjoy it, if I do I will then go and buy all of their others (they could of course achieve that same goal with a preview clip).

So there is an example of a current clip that might be brilliant or might not but so far I can't tell so wont buy it.
 
I've come to a realization that the problem isn't really with the producers. It's fact that most of these videos end up all over youtube and pornhub for free. Most of these girls that are in videos, they are regular, every-day human beings that have to pay bills and live alife. And if they end up on pornhub or youtube in these videos, it could seriously jeapordize or damage their image and career.

I was wrong to create this thread and I wish I could delete it, but I can't.
 
I've come to a realization that the problem isn't really with the producers. It's fact that most of these videos end up all over youtube and pornhub for free. Most of these girls that are in videos, they are regular, every-day human beings that have to pay bills and live alife. And if they end up on pornhub or youtube in these videos, it could seriously jeapordize or damage their image and career.

I was wrong to create this thread and I wish I could delete it, but I can't.

Do NOT feel that way. You brought the community to a VALID argument. Not all producers are kind or awesome but we struggle sometimes. I have personally lost friends over pornhub arguments where they ended up on the site and until recently getting content down took FOREVER. A part of me still wants to seriously retire from producing but my fans keep me fully motivated. I have dedicated people 100 percent backing me on a daily basis but even then I struggle. So I can only imagine certain others.
 
Do NOT feel that way. You brought the community to a VALID argument. Not all producers are kind or awesome but we struggle sometimes. I have personally lost friends over pornhub arguments where they ended up on the site and until recently getting content down took FOREVER. A part of me still wants to seriously retire from producing but my fans keep me fully motivated. I have dedicated people 100 percent backing me on a daily basis but even then I struggle. So I can only imagine certain others.
I am seriously willing to help out for free in terms of taking these damned videos down from all these public sites. If you have an email address or something, or PM me, we can discuss this. But I know a lot of you guys are too busy to spend countless hours reporting and flagging videos for DMCA and copyright violations. But I am willing to spend hours doing it for you. And that goes for any producer out there that actually put a lot of effort into creating quality content, that's being affected by this.

I love this fetish. It has helped me realize a lot of dreams, and helped me satisfy a lot of intense desires. And it's really pissing me off that the industry is seriously getting negatively impacted by all this crap, because it's affecting my life now too. And it obviously has had a negative impact on my life for a while; I was just blaming the wrong people (the producers).

Just because I'm not a producer doesn't mean that I don't get affected when this shit happens.
 
I've come to a realization that the problem isn't really with the producers. It's fact that most of these videos end up all over youtube and pornhub for free. Most of these girls that are in videos, they are regular, every-day human beings that have to pay bills and live alife. And if they end up on pornhub or youtube in these videos, it could seriously jeapordize or damage their image and career.

I was wrong to create this thread and I wish I could delete it, but I can't.

You make a very good point! Although I deliberatly tried not to name that site ;-) But being on clips4sale can have the same effect for the girls career, if their prospective boss happens to be into whatever kink the girl modelled for he may well have seen her anyway (cricky that same argument could be made against preview clips not being released which many producers now post on PH & YouTube (smartly in my opinion from a marketing point of view). But thats not good for the girls image either is it?
 
You make a very good point! Although I deliberatly tried not to name that site ;-) But being on clips4sale can have the same effect for the girls career, if their prospective boss happens to be into whatever kink the girl modelled for he may well have seen her anyway (cricky that same argument could be made against preview clips not being released which many producers now post on PH & YouTube (smartly in my opinion from a marketing point of view). But thats not good for the girls image either is it?

Clips4sale.com is normally know for people searching in that specific kink etc etc. However on pornhub, if a model becomes popular on a page or even in a foot fetish section. She will appear often making it easier by 70% to find her and for her to be exposed
 
You make a very good point! Although I deliberatly tried not to name that site ;-) But being on clips4sale can have the same effect for the girls career, if their prospective boss happens to be into whatever kink the girl modelled for he may well have seen her anyway (cricky that same argument could be made against preview clips not being released which many producers now post on PH & YouTube (smartly in my opinion from a marketing point of view). But thats not good for the girls image either is it?
That is indeed a good point. So why do producers put these videos on clips4sale? Everyone should just create their own dedicated fetish site, and sell the videos on that instead.

Now I actually understand and appreciate why Darth Sidius has been so aggressive about copyright infringement and DMCA notices. I think he's successfully sued people over it.

There are so many beautiful women out there that haven't been in videos, that would probably love tickling, but they refuse to do it because they don't want to end up all over the fucking internet. Which also will affect sales and their pay day.
 
So why do producers put these videos on clips4sale?

Truth be told, it seems like only tickle fetish people are so adamant about throwing shit up there to begin with. I think a lot of times people will buy something and keep it, but tickle people are just so fucking weird about everything they feel compelled to throw shit up there.

I make videos but I'm not a real "producer", but I won't give people download copies because they couldn't stop putting shit up on PornHub. I gave them the videos. For free. The material for free for anyone to have if they asked for it. And they put them up there anyway. I had asked specifically for them not to be, and I get facebook messages "Hey uh, did you post those videos on PornHub?".

There's something wrong with... I guess people specifically on here that does this shit, since this was the only place I was making a place to hand out download links. And I don't know why, I assume most of you are adults who would understand what you're being asked, and then just do the opposite anyway. Like you literally, in between whining "boo hoo muh girl-next-door stop using all the same models over and over!!!", can't make the connection why taking a foot tickling video and throwing it on a website next to 'Tearful Gagging Blowjob' and 'Amatuer Assfucking' might end up a problem and you not getting what you want.

I'm not a producer, and I lean more towards the consumer side of the complaints, but holy jesus the very, very minimal amount of experience I've had in this shit, I get it. And I really do think the problem stems from this specific forum, since I've noticed tickle content stores and sites who don't make a point to interact with you guys seem to avoid the piracy bug.
 
Is there any way we can get pornhub taken down completely? It does nothing but host content illegally (for the most part anyway)..
 
Is there any way we can get pornhub taken down completely? It does nothing but host content illegally (for the most part anyway)..

Like, once and for all? I don't know. There are DMCA services you can register with that hunt for and take down content on your behalf, but there are always workarounds.
 
Like, once and for all? I don't know. There are DMCA services you can register with that hunt for and take down content on your behalf, but there are always workarounds.
Okay, I'll look into it. This problem is so massive and ridiculous, it needs to be addressed imo. I'm not trying to be a saint here. But FFS, they are scaring all the hottest and most ticklish women away.
 
The sibling analogy falls flat once you're dealing with adults running a business, dude. All it takes is one model who felt like you stepped over a line and next thing you know, nobody of any substance wants to work with you; all us producers have in this business is our reputation, and girls do talk shit about the creepy ones. Release forms, also, are not a license to abuse the talent. You don't let her go the second she says "let me go", congratulations! You're committing a felony no matter what she signed.

Some want a quick buck and are careless with their safety, but the majority will look into you and check references, as they should! Can't agree more with the release form not being a license.

I actually consider my "banter" better than most, but that's just me. Thing is, getting that kind of chemistry and comfort with a total stranger whom you literally just met five minutes before is really difficult...

And even if the comfort level is there or arrives, some people just don't have the type of personality which lends itself to a successful exchange. I've been pretty lucky in this regard, but it takes work and skill to get a stranger to be at ease with you touching them in a familiar way and comfortable enough they will make themselves available to that mental aspect. I know many believe simply tickling them well enough is what induces this state, but sometimes, you know more flies with honey..


If even one percent (ONE FLIPPING PERCENT!) of that one-to-two-thousand viewers bought the video whose preview they fapped to.....

Mind boggling ain't it?

For reference, my 30-second preview clips at 640x480 are usually 4-6MB.

Well there you have it! One thing we can do like they did in the "glory days" - everyone, 320x240 previews! Problem solved haha

I appreciate your clarifications. As far as forum previews are concerned, however, I differ.

You're right, it's no guarantee for a sale. But it still informs people that you exist. Ya, I won't purchase a lot of clips just based off previews, but in the past there were some really good previews that made me get clips. C4S really had nothing to do with my purchases other than following the link to select the clip in question. Promotion is difficult, I get it, but at the same time, even if you don't "get a sale", you're still out there.

Not only is it no guarantee for a sale, it often makes no difference one way or the other. I get it, in theory nothing ventured, nothing gained, can't score if you don't take the shot, etc. Reality is I used to painstakingly go through the process of making clips at the highest resolution I could, while still making them long enough to give a decent representation of the clip as a whole AND still meeting the 4 or 5mb limit. Post said preview clip on multiple sites including youtube and dailymotion (until enough accounts go cancelled), and several hi res pictures to boot. Not to mention the description to go with. Then I stopped updating every other day. And I stopped posting pics. And I stopped posting to multiple forums. And my sales are practically identical.

Ok here is my 2 cents worth. ;-)

I want this to be as constructive as possible, so please any producers reading this post, please please please do not take offence, I am trying to explain what I personally feel is missing and where I think things could be improved.

I think someone on here said it right when they asked / suggested, "Focus on quality not quantity." However there is an issue with that, especially if you are trying to be customer focussed. As you have to KNOW your customer very well to know SPECIFICALLY what your target audiences 'thing' is.

Never any offense taken. It does occur to me that the "focus on quality not quantity" ethos can work both ways, for consumer as well as producer. I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but seems to me a very good option is to order customs with the models you like. I've seen where so many have said they spend a fraction of what they used to spend on clips - so if you take that, and get a custom, you can get exactly what you wish, or something much closer to it than waiting on that serendipitous clip, while the others invariably disappoint. Again, just a thought.

For example I would personally like to see more clips that include:

1. Extremely ticklish sexy girls / women.
2. Tickled out of their mind.
3. Face down / hogtied.
4. Tickled on their bare feet.

That may seem pretty specific yet it is not specific enough. My idea of extremely ticklish sexy girls may be different to the person making the clip, they may think one type of giggle is extremely ticklish whilst I might not think they are 'extremely' ticklish unless they are litterally gasping for air and begging for mercy.

Even assuming the producer does have the same concept of tickled out of their mind (and understand it to be merciless style tickling), they still might not actually have a model who is ticklish enough or who reacts to being tickled in that cant handle it need to escape type of way. I suspect most of the guys who used to spend big on clips and no longer do are like me and want to see the more intense side and that is currently lacking (bear in mind this is from my point of view, I realise there will be producers who could post examples of what they consider to be intense, but when I watch them I may well (if being honest) have to admit they are not as intense as I like.

None of the above is the anybodies 'fault' infact if anything it would be my fault for not being specific enough. HOWEVER I have yet to see a producer ask us to be specific with what we want and then actually listen and produce it. I remember one did a questionaire years ago which I went to great lengths to fill out only to see that producer continue to make the exact same clip format he always had and sadly (for him) closed his doors less than a year later due to lack of sales.

I agree, this is the greatest issue, in so much as what one sees as an accepted generality, is in fact subjectively detailed. I've given up trying to figure out what will be enjoyed by the masses. There are models I've shot with whom I thought would not be well received and have turned out to sell very well. Likewise, there are those I was sure would be wildly popular, and they were not. Or were, however it's worth mentioning popular does not mean sales. Rose Star was one of my most "popular" models, with multiple people reaching out to ask when she will shoot again. However she has only sold 5 or 6 total clips - so, no can book.

Which again brings me back to the idea of customs. Say exactly what you want. Pay for exactly what you want. Quality over quantity no?

That is indeed a good point. So why do producers put these videos on clips4sale? Everyone should just create their own dedicated fetish site, and sell the videos on that instead.

There are so many beautiful women out there that haven't been in videos, that would probably love tickling, but they refuse to do it because they don't want to end up all over the fucking internet. Which also will affect sales and their pay day.

Well I think those who make enough profit, or simply have the capital reserve have done just that. I have looked into it and done some cost analysis, and honestly it's really a wash, and when you add the fact I don't have to deal with any IT issues, it's really not worth it. Besides, if the goal is to keep the material from making it to "other" sites, then it's a fail from the moment the material is in the hands of someone who is going to go upload it to pornhub.

Interestingly enough, you're spot on about so many beautiful women who would definitely do a tickling video, but do not want to be seen on the internet. I'm contacted by the tens of women who are interested. I explain the what, and they are a go. I explain the what for - they exit stage left.
 
Here's a decent article about piracy. I think you can take the word of a guy who hosts one of the largest software clients to distribute.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

Honestly I doubt pornhub is the issue, and I doubt it will stop, being it's part of a network; that is you have to get multiple parties on board.

Do you really want that anyway? To be underground again? Why not do smart things, like watermark your own material? Make it something people can't ignore that someone is taking credit for producing this stuff. Make it more corporate, if there is such a thing.
 
Here's a decent article about piracy. I think you can take the word of a guy who hosts one of the largest software clients to distribute.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

Honestly I doubt pornhub is the issue, and I doubt it will stop, being it's part of a network; that is you have to get multiple parties on board.

Do you really want that anyway? To be underground again? Why not do smart things, like watermark your own material? Make it something people can't ignore that someone is taking credit for producing this stuff. Make it more corporate, if there is such a thing.
So you don't think that these girls don't have any issues being on one of the most popular porn sites on the planet? Most of these girls aren't actually porn stars either. If their friends, family and co-workers find out about it, it can cause some serious issues. Tommy said that one of his past models almost lost her job because of it. She may have lost her job, he didn't update us on the situation.

And yes, I would much rather us be underground again. When we were underground and mostly unknown, it was far easier for producers to hire extremely ticklish, next door neighbor type of girls.

And I would much rather not have watermarks all over these videos either.


Just my opinion.
 
Pornhub is synonymous with what it offers. There's everything. If I want to watch "clown giving blowjob" I can. It's not going to disappear, from what I can see. And frankly, anyone who puts their face in front of a camera is giving up control of who can put them anywhere. It's Simple.

Feeling like a freak because there's nothing openly similar to what we like is better than people accepting that we have a "happy" fetish by seeing a video? No. I'm sorry, no.
 
Pornhub is synonymous with what it offers. There's everything.
And that's part of the reason it needs to be shut down. It's allowing people to share content illegally in massive excess.

It's not going to disappear, from what I can see.
Unfortunately you are probably right about that.


And frankly, anyone who puts their face in front of a camera is giving up control of who can put them anywhere. It's Simple.
But that also doesn't give people the right to share the shit illegally and for free, it's actually pretty unethical on many different levels.
 
You do realize "big" porn companies host samplings of their content on these sites as well, right?

People aren't thinking "rights" when they go to porn sites, and the sites never mention anything about "rights". I think a few have a very basic DMCA notice if anything, but their actual enforcement of it would likely cause the sites to disappear.

People who put their faces on the Camera are looking to be filmed, it's not very complex. If I'm around and someone whips out a camera where it's not wanted, I turn my face. Simple. Tickling post used spandex face masks on models who didn't want to be seen.

I think claiming property (via watermarking) does a lot more than crying "piracy!" In a world where people will always find a way. I don't like it, I don't like the consequences it puts on people who don't do it (me),but it's 2016.
 
It's amazing the lengths that people go to justify why this isn't a problem and should be ignored.
 
So what are we going to do about the movies, TV, music, and video games that suffer pirating? If you place a watermark that makes a video impossible to watch without seeing (that can't be cropped away) you actually have some claim that your material cannot be replicated.
 
So why do producers put these videos on clips4sale? Everyone should just create their own dedicated fetish site, and sell the videos on that instead.

There is a lot more overhead and technical issues with hosting your own site than using C4S. The bandwidth costs alone are probably more than the average non-top-tier producer can afford.

I used to do web development for a living, and I don't consider building your own site a good idea for a small-time producer. That should tell you something.

I think the "Pornhub is scaring them off!" issue is a bit overblown. Yes, it happens - I suspect it's why Priti won't shoot with me anymore - but apart from that issue it's literally never been cited as a reason a girl won't shoot with me. I usually structure my pitch such that only the ones who would be comfortable with it apply anyway.

PS: still curious what clips of mine you've bought, weez. free video in it for you if I can verify your purchase.
 
Dude just put a watermark in the corner. ...it's not hard.

You'd be surprised at the lengths people will go to to crop, cover up, or otherwise remove your watermarks.

Movies, etc. are hurt by piracy, true, but they still take in enough sales to be profitable. Also, those industries have far more resources available to explore alternative methods of distribution to minimize the issue. Most of us are literally shooting on Handicams and editing in our bedrooms. The few who aren't are the ones able to even consider it, and there aren't enough of them to radically change the industry... assuming they can do it without shutting the rest of us out entirely. Do you want to go back to the days of being at the mercy of the only six studios in town?
 
You do realize "big" porn companies host samplings of their content on these sites as well, right?

People aren't thinking "rights" when they go to porn sites, and the sites never mention anything about "rights". I think a few have a very basic DMCA notice if anything, but their actual enforcement of it would likely cause the sites to disappear.

People who put their faces on the Camera are looking to be filmed, it's not very complex. If I'm around and someone whips out a camera where it's not wanted, I turn my face. Simple. Tickling post used spandex face masks on models who didn't want to be seen.

I think claiming property (via watermarking) does a lot more than crying "piracy!" In a world where people will always find a way. I don't like it, I don't like the consequences it puts on people who don't do it (me),but it's 2016.

The larger porn companies do use the site to host long samples of their work - primarily as a means to drown out the pirated versions, which are posted on there already. It's a necessity for them, a way to combat the piracy...they don't use that site because it's a great site or a great marketing tool, but because their content is getting ripped off all over it anyway.

For the record, whilst most producers do watermark their content (and it is always sensible to do so), that isn't a solution to this problem. People don't watch clips on pirate sites and then go and buy them on the whole. I can safely say that almost none of my C4S traffic comes via that site..it just doesn't work like that I'm afraid. It also doesn't make any difference in terms of legality - it is illegal to copy or post the content without permission, whether it is watermarked or not. Watermarking makes it easier to prove but it doesn't stop anyone from posting it illegally, and you can DMCA report anything that you have the rights to, whether or not it is watermarked.

As for 'people putting their faces in front of the camera..', this is what model releases and verbal agreements are for. If a model agrees to work with me, it is on the basis that they are shooting for my site and clipstores. I don't automatically have the right to use it anywhere I like and the model shouldn't expect it to turn up on Facebook, youtube or a million pirate sites...nobody wants to be on a site with 'porn' in the title if they don't shoot porn. The other thing to bear in mind is that bigger pirate sites and tube sites tend to feature much more prominently in search results. They get seen by a much wider demographic than the individual member sites and clips4sale stores do (this is not only a problem for models but for content producers who lose out due to this re-direction of potential customers)

The alternative is to only work with porn models, which makes things much more limited. I work very hard to source glamour/fashion models that are not in countless fetish/adult clips and who would not have thought to try tickling clips before (as a general rule, they are all new to this fetish). I've lost some very good (including some very well known) models over the years because of people sharing their content more widely - some posters go as far as to change the model name, posting the clips with model's real names etc. Sadly, some people are just massive assholes and feel entitled to do whatever they want.
 
some posters go as far as to change the model name, posting the clips with model's real names etc.

As an aside, this is also one of the reasons finding our content on pirated sites can be so difficult. They don't upload your clip as "Jane Doe from XYZ Productions", they upload it as "tickling my girlfriend". That makes it impossible to find without literally screening every video on the site by hand.
 
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