Now finally this is an interesting thead about the whole thing... not just pro and anti-American talk, left-wing right-wing postings. The referee, forwards and goalies that make up the rest of the hockey game always get left out.
Totally agree Hussein is a bad guy. Need to get rid of him.
His people can't vote him out beacuse he's a dictator, they can't revolt because they have neither a free press or weapons. They are essentially helpless in this (and they don't like him, either, so it's not like they are in solidarity with their leader)
Way more afraid of Al-Quida and North Korea than Iraq. Angrier at the Saudis - most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, they have a monarchy not a democracy, own a lot of oil, a princess was sending $$ to one of the student/hijackers, and Bin Lauden bombed us and our allies in part becuase U.S. troops are stationed in Saudi Arabia and too close to Muslim holy sites. But he ignored the fact that Saudia Arabia ALLOWED U.S. troops in (ie, we didn't invade) yet none of their builidings came tumbling down.
I might not like the mission, but I support the troops.
It's a volunter army, and enlistment rose after 9/11. These people knew what they were getting into.
Iraq used to be our ally. Then the government secretly sold weapons to their enemy- and ours - Iran. That's why Saddam is mad at us now. From what I've read he was an orphan who came from poverty in a pretty tough culture, so he's developed this vengful and suspicious mindset over the course of his lifetime. And our executive branch made a deal with his enemy.
The U.S. supports England; England has a presence in N. Ireland not welcome by many. There are rumblings that the U.S. supports the terror of England, therefore the U.S. supports terror. Which means what we've seen from 9/11 that since we support terror (in the eyes of some) we could then be targets for reprisals. Which means that potentially we could be the target of more 9/11 attacks by more Tim McVie type people - folks who "look like us" and come from a culture more similar to ours, therefore they'd be harder to catch.... Then there's the continued near-blind U.S. support of Isreal, which makes a lot of bomb-building Arabs unhappy, and a lot of peacful Arabs unhappy, including voting, tax paying U.S. Arab Americans, and even other U.S. citizens & congress members are now saying, "You know, Isreal could change a FEW things in the way it operates...."
We went to Somalia to feed the starving people. War lords killed both U.S. troops and their own people. Rather than fight these terrorists we pulled out.
Usually, when the U.S. fights an enemy & wins, the U.S. then takes care of that enemy, helping them rebuild. So it isn't like Iraq will be laid to waste....
I've heard Kofi Anon speak in person. He seems smart and genuine. Don't know about the rest of the UN, but he seems like a good guy.
Billy Wilder wanted to do a "modern" and more relevent Marx Brothers film with the UN as the setting. But then Chico dies so it doesn't happen. That was '61, so the effectiveness of the UN was in question even then.
UN doesn't do much when it even makes the attempt. When the UN was in Bosnia, and US troops were part of the coalition, the UN troops wouldn't get involved with the fighting, and would stand aside while civilians were hearded away on buses from the designated "safe" cities by the enemy. It wasn't until the U.S. became a leader of the mission rather than a participant, that real results happened. So U.S. military intervention does more often than not lead to something good in the long run.
The U.S. intervened in the Gulf 10 years ago. Saddam is still in power, we & our allies were targeted by Bin Laden's boys, and Kuwait is still a monarchy.
People put Europe down because they aren't as quick to want was as George Bush. But since they have had modern warfare in their own streets and have seen what it is like, maybe they have a different perspective and should be listened to.
Worst case scenario. We attack Iraq. Every edgy Islam/Arab/anti-Western radical supporter attacks us in covert, terrorist ways. We can't trust anyone & other Arab nations join in, even fighting against each other. Al-Quaida moves into high gear, so now we're fighting two different styles of war on two fronts - with oil for our military vehicles in short supply. Then North Korea does something crazy... we focus our attentions there... and China takes over Taiwan with incredible spped while everyone else is distracted with the other goings-ons.... and no one is interested in talking about peace for fear of looking soft to politica supporters or the history books, so the wars/skirmishes only get worse (nukes, biological agents anyone?). Then the left wing/right wing brouhaha gets bigger and more violent at home. So the country is warring with itself, which has happened in the past, and we see happening in other places now. And then we all die or become mutants.
And who knows what's up in Central & South America.
So... Saddam needs to go. War will do it. But it might do other things as well. So the conclusion is the simple part. The reasons why (oil? George junior's revenge?) the other factors, and the path to the conclusion aren't so simple.
