Draft

The 1st round is over, the 49ers were in a great position to either get Hawk or Davis and would of been a winner even with Hawk but Davis is a weapon that will allow Bryant to one on one as most probably Davis will require safety help in coverage.

Young I'm happy was drafted before the Raiders because he would of for sure been going to Oakland if he was still available. Huff I am happy with, a player that can cover, blitz and what the Raiders missed most of all a player that can H.I.T (while on the Raiders, their 2nd round pick is nice. They are going to have a good young defence but in saying that I thought a defence tackle should of been taken with their 3rd instead of a OT)

Packers now have a good defence and can be a contender in the North, Texans are dumb we wont see another Reggie Bush for at least 10 years, the Saints coaches will thinking hard how to play both Bush and Deuce.

Cardinals will have a solid offense come next season or as early as mid year. To many good things on that offense for it not to be.

Denver and Buffalo picks were questionable, Buffalo could of drafted down for there first pick but they made up for that by moving up and drafting the N.C state DT and Denver have needs and shouldn't really be looking for the future.

What are other people views on the draft so far.

Kust

I have already commented on my feelings towards the Texans pick. I am going to disagree with my buddy, Primetime, though...I like the direction the Titans went in. Regardless of who drafted him, Young has serious mechanics issues. He does, however, have a quarterbacks mentality as far as looking for the second and third option before scampering. I think he will be a good pick.

The Jets, 49ers, and Saints, to me, were the big winners. AS for Bush with the Saints....the options are everywhere. They can run a two back set, line up Reggie at slot...due to the questionable arm strength of Brees you have to have a solid check down receiver. Bush is your answer. The 49ers signed the guy who I think will be everything Jeremy Shockey was supposed to be and hasnt been. And the Jets signing the the Brick was genuis....the only other direction I could see them leaning towards would be Cutler. But I have watched Ramsey play his entire career, and if he had ever had a solid line and decent receivers in Washington, he would have really been special. Get him some protection, and the Jets have something to build on.

My early thoughts are pretty simple. You could redo this draft 10 more times and I dont think it would turn out the same.

Early winners--
Houston--YES I said Houston. Regardless of Reggie Bush and his talent, the Texans drafted for need. Getting Mario Williams 1 and DeMeco Ryans with their #2. Then got 2 very good Offensive Linemen with their 2 3rd round picks. Rebuilt a offensive line and now they have a defense with bite. Good Job.

San Fran--Got the player they wanted in Vernon Davis and Manny Lawson an outstanding hybred that will be a linebacker for them in the 1st round. No 2nds but picked up Brandon Williams (WR WISC) in the 3rd. Filled a need with a good fit for SF offense.

Tennessee--Im still not sure about Vince Young as a Quarterback in the NFL but as an athlete he was top 3 talent. Getting LenDale White (a projected #1) at pick 45 was a steal and will replace oft injured Chris Brown and Travis Henry at the goal line. It will give them that brusing back they need for the tough yards.

Arizona--Matt Leinhart fell right in their laps and honestly its a match made for Sunday's. Leinhart knock is that he needs playmakers because he cant make them happen on his own. Well now he has 2 of the best young recievers (Bolden and Fitzgerald) and Edge running behind him. I know the OL in the 2nd might have been a stretch but it does work toward filling a void, and the pick of TE Marcus Pope in the 3rd is another excellent fit. He will start right away, why..how many of you all can NAME Arizona's TE last season.

Carolina--DeAngelo Williams who many had as the #2 RB in the draft after Reggie Bush slipping to #27 was a great value pick for the Panthers. After all if the Panthers hadnt been down to their #4 HB vs. Seattle it very well could have been Carolina in their 2nd Super Bowl in 3 years. Williams will give oft injured DeShawn Foster a run for his money and I wouldnt be suprised to see Williams starting by week 8. Then adding a sound corner in Richard Marshall (he wil fill the Nickel void left by Ricky Manning Jr.'s departure) and then 2 solid 3rd round picks with an OL and an OLB.

Jacksonville--A great TE(Mercedees Lewis UCLA) to help a offense in need of a safety valve, and Maruice Drew(RB UCLA) fell to them also at pick #60 as a possible replacement for another oft injured back in Fred Taylor. Clint Ingram also to me is a STEAL at #80. He will fit in nicely and start right way in Jacksonville.

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Early Losers
Buffalo--Donte Whitner, good pick but not a need for Buffalo. And Buffalo had the WTF?!?! pick of day 1, John McCargo (isnt that a style of Khaki pants?) DT at pick #26. I mean with Justice sitting there and a need for OL, and with Chad Jackson and Sinorice Moss sitting there and Buffalo having just gotten rid of Eric Moulds. Sorry Buffalo fans, consider yourself in the race for another high #1 pick next year.

Phildelphia--YES, I said Philly. Okay you got a great DT, but your defense was already pretty good. And you got Winston Justice a first round talent in the 2nd round by trading up. But let me ask...where is the impact WR you need. Im sorry but the WR core last year proved they hack it and in the NFC East Philly just wont be able to keep up with the offense's of the rest of the division.

San Diego--Great you got a corner thats started 1 game in his college carrer and is comming of a blown knee. CB is a learned position, and he wont have much of a learning curve. Youve got Phillip Rivers as your starting QB and he has only 1 legitmate recieving threat from the line of scrimmage (Antonio Gates). They didnt fill a need with a top flight WR with so many still available in the 1st round. The OT in the 2nd rd was an Okay pick and Charlie Whitehurst is a project QB they got in the 3rd.

New England--Boy people must think Im crazy, but yeah they got their RB to replace Dillion and a WR to shore up the passing game, but for a team that lost more than a few Defensive standouts (for a team that played terrible defense last year) the Pats didnt address a single defensive issue.

Atlanta--Yeah boy do they have a nice defense now. Added John Abraham for the D-Line now with Jimmy Williams they have a VT feel to their secondary but I have a question for the Falcons. What are going to do when you lose games 10-3? How do I say this...Atlanta you still have no legitmate downfield threats. Not one. Unrealiable recivers will still have the most OVERRATED and unpro-bowl like quaterback in history (Michael Vick) throwing for stats like 11-30 for 145 yds 0TDs and 2 INts, but he will have 75 yds rushing a TD, Im sure thats a great consellation when the Falcons are sitting home in January.

Thats all for now.............More after the last rounds today.

Rob

most people's assessments are good, but i have to disagree on the Young pick. to me, this was the worst pick of a #3 and 1st QB taken since who knows when. Vince Young will be AVERAGE. he has serious mechanic issues and the guy is well, dumb as a rock.

why do i not like Vince Young? granted, his performance against USC was heroic, but let's get real. that USC defense was pretty shaky the whole year. dont believe me? anyone watch the Fresno State game? Vince Young's stock shot up because of that ONE game. i guarantee that if USC had their 2004 defense, Young would have been planted in the ground. Young DOES NOT beat you with his arm, he beats you with his legs. he will not be able to do that in the NFL because there are some FAST Linebackers who will track him down and blast him. he is NO Michael Vick. Vick is basically a Reggie Bush at QB. Young will not be able to make plays with his legs in the NFL like he did in college. ask yourself, can Young lead a team down the field in the clutch WITHOUT running himself at all, just pure passing? oh hell no...

another knock against Young is the fact that Mack Brown had to completely change the offensive system he had at Texas to help Young. why couldnt Young run the same offense that Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Chris Simms run? or even the same offense that Ricky Williams ran? they had to create a Shotgun option for Young. that style of offense is nowhere in the NFL. much like Alex Smith who is struggling, Young will struggle badly in the NFL. in the NFL they have play THEIR system, they dont "create" an offense to suit you. this is where Young will have problems.

the reason why Leinart would have been a better choice is simple. Norm Chow MADE Matt Leinart. if Steve McNair returns, chances are he will get hurt again. you can plug in Leinart this year and he will have success in Tennessee because that system is a system he knows. he has been studying NFL defenses for 2 years. you've seen Leinart in college. he knows how to direct an offense and make necessary adjustments. Young doesnt have that ability. Young would have been better in Oakland, where all he needs to do is throw deep. the only reason why i see Young getting selected by the Titans is that they plan to fire Fisher and staff after this year.

as for Young's intelligience. Wonderlic's dont lie....plus, have you heard him during interviews? this guy is an athlete, not a QB. dont be surprised if you see him playing Tight End in the future....

yes, my 49ers made the right pick. Vernon Davis is a BEAST. this guy should give the 49er offense a playmaker they sorely lack. their other first round pick, Manny Lawson, should also held a much maligned defense as well. now, if they can draft guard Fred Matua in the later rounds, you will see my grin from wherever you are...

the Texans will be remembered as making the same mistake the Portland Trailblazers made when they drafted Sam "who?" Bowie ahead of Michael Jordan. Reggie Bush is unbelievable. Mario Williams is a great player, but Bush is a game changer. we will see what happens...

Robace, we will have to agree to disagree with Houston, friend. I do like the O-line picks....if you have no intentions of taking Bush, than they should have taken Ferguson as the #1 and taken the next available defensive lineman. But what is done is done. I hope for the Texans sake, everything works out. Personally, I dont think Williams gets 10 sacks this season, and the Texans may win less than 8 games again.

I think you are dead on with your Buffalo assessment. Why not draft Leinart or Cutler if you are Buffalo? The draft is thick with DB's...they could have taken the next one available. But they needed offensive linemen in a major way (I think one of their Linemen is actually a tight end that has been forced to play guard)...the DT selection was ridiculous.

Robace, we will have to agree to disagree with Houston, friend. I do like the O-line picks....if you have no intentions of taking Bush, than they should have taken Ferguson as the #1 and taken the next available defensive lineman.

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Good point Daj. I hadn't thought about it like that. In that aspect they should have made 'Da Brick #1 and then maybe traded their 2nd and 4th to move into the last rounds of the 1st again and picked someone like Lawson or another great DT. But I still think they did pretty good.

Rob

The Texans made the right choice picking Williams, because defense was something they needed to address. They didn't need a running back. Besides, with Kubiak's system, he can plug anyone in the RB position, and gain 1,200 yards a year. The core is what they needed to address. What is the core you ask? The core is the defensive and offensive lines, which needed to be seriously addressed

As far as Young goes, the Titans did good to draft him. Leinart has no arm, and the deep ball inaccuracies are a problem for Leinart. Give Young some tutoring, and some time to fix his mechanics, and he will be a good QB

And to correct you Primetime, Dan Marino, and some of the QB's in that great 83' class had poor Wonderlic test scores, and where are they?? In the Hall of Fame. Just because you don't do well on the Wonderlic doesn't mean you're not a smart person. Doesn't it occur to you some people does not do tests well??

german said:

The 1st round is over, the 49ers were in a great position to either get Hawk or Davis and would of been a winner even with Hawk but Davis is a weapon that will allow Bryant to one on one as most probably Davis will require safety help in coverage.

Young I'm happy was drafted before the Raiders because he would of for sure been going to Oakland if he was still available. Huff I am happy with, a player that can cover, blitz and what the Raiders missed most of all a player that can H.I.T (while on the Raiders, their 2nd round pick is nice. They are going to have a good young defence but in saying that I thought a defence tackle should of been taken with their 3rd instead of a OT)

Packers now have a good defence and can be a contender in the North, Texans are dumb we wont see another Reggie Bush for at least 10 years, the Saints coaches will thinking hard how to play both Bush and Deuce.

Cardinals will have a solid offense come next season or as early as mid year. To many good things on that offense for it not to be.

Denver and Buffalo picks were questionable, Buffalo could of drafted down for there first pick but they made up for that by moving up and drafting the N.C state DT and Denver have needs and shouldn't really be looking for the future.

What are other people views on the draft so far.

Kust

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Packers will contend in North??? They traded thete best receiver and they still have no offensive line.they will be lucky to win 6 games with a new head coach.

my gripe about Vince Young is that i do not think he is "smart" enough to be an NFL quarterback. why? first, his Wonderlic test score was well, low. but that isnt what made me think he is all muscle, no brains.

the simple fact that Mack Brown had to "dummify" the Texas offense so Vince Young can run it says enough. why didnt Vince Young run the same offense Chris Simms ran? dont believe that crap when they said they are trying to display his athletic abilities, bottom line is, Vince Young operated a shotgun option offense, which doesnt exist in the NFL. Vince Young has to run complex offenses in the NFL. no NFL coach is going to "dummify" the offense just so Vince Young can do okay. the NFL doesnt do that. Vince Young is a tremendous athlete, but he is no NFL Quarterback. remember, he can only beat you with his legs, not his arm. this guy cant run a 2 minute drill with him throwing the ball. the way he ran down the field against mediocre defenses (USC included), he will not be able to do that in the NFL. he doesnt have the speed of Michael Vick. Vince Young is another Kordell Stewart, but bigger.

the Titans made a HUGE mistake in drafting Young. the only logic behind it is that the Titans plan to fire Jeff Fisher after the season. why else would you draft a "project" instead of Leinart, who is ready to start in the NFL under Norm Chow?

You act like Young is the only QB to have his playbook simplified, that does not make him a dumb person. ALL playbooks are fitted to fit a certain QB's abilities

Again I go back to Dan Marino, who only scored a 17, and he is the best QB in history. Lay off Young, he will be fine. Besides, for Leinart to be so NFL ready, he has a laundry list of holes to fix before he even takes a snap

You, like everyone else here, needs to look at the big picture before you comment. The draft is NOT a popularity contest, but a grocery store of what a particular team NEEDS, not what satisfies the populus

You, like everyone else here, needs to look at the big picture before you comment. The draft is NOT a popularity contest, but a grocery store of what a particular team NEEDS, not what satisfies the populus

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Im kind of surprised by your jab at "everyone else here"...thus far, no one has really said anything based on popularity. Some of what Primetime says about Young is true; his stock soared after the Championship game....it wasnt even his best game all year. It just had the attention of a national audience. I think his best game all season was against Ohio State, personally.

As for teams picking based on needs, you are correct. However, when a team is 2-14 the previous season, you pick the best athlete on the board that provides the most upside and opportunity to win. Mario Williams is not, has not, and never was that guy. I stand by my opinon that selecting Mario Williams number one overall is a waste. This is not a reflection of the athlete himself; it is more a reflection of the position he plays. He is a defensive end, and if you watched him as much as I have (I live in ACC country) you know that as awesome as he performed in the combine, he is also known for sleepwalking through games and in general being an underacheiver. He averaged right at a sack a game for his collegiate career....hardly number one pick money.

We are all approximately the same age....I think we can all agree that the most prominent defensive ends in our collective lifetimes were Bruce Smith, Reggie White, and Julius Peppers. They were/are all playmakers. But between the three of them, even with two of them at one point being the career sack leaders during their playing careers, there is only one Super Bowl ring between them. As great as Smith was, he had four chances and never received a ring. Reggie did not get one until he went to Green Bay, and Peppers is still waiting. Why....simple: the position is NOT a gamebreaking position. It is actually a containment position, although lately defensive ends have been dropping back into passing coverage. Reggie White could not get a ring until he was on a team with a far superior offense than the one he played with in Philly (which it had a far superior defensive line than the line he won the ring with, I might add). If your offense only scores about 16 points a game, what can Mario Williams do for your? How many points does he get for sacks...none. Tackles? None. The Texans were already 14th in the league in sacks last season; it isnt like their defensive line was the issue last year.

Robace feels that offensive line would have been a greater need than running back. I can concede that...IF YOU DRAFT THE BEST LINEMAN!! Are you going to tell me that it was smarter to pay a defensive lineman than an offensive lineman. I have a better idea...ask David Carr how he feels right now. After being pummelled every year of his career, he watched a franchise that pledged to build a team around him let the number one TE, OL, and RB go, even though they had the number one pick. For 54 million dollars you can sign an entire defensive line. Can you imagine what it would have been like to have the option to run a true two back set with Davis and Bush. Line Bush up at the slot? Have Bush return punts? If all Reggie Bush does next year is fill seats, sell merchandise, and shorten the playing field by returning punts for the Texans, then there is return on that investment. Instead, they sign a defensive end who, even if he leads the league in sacks (which I will bet you paycheck for paycheck he wont), unless that team wins 8 games, there is no return on investment. Personally, it makes me no difference; Im neither a Saints fan, Texans fan, Bush fan, or Williams fan.

I do feel you on the test thing. Personally, tests and combines dont really mean shit to me. You cant truly judge a guy until he has 11 guys staring back at him. We wont find out until August.

Dajerx, I agree with you wholeheartedly. What I meant was for Primetime and all those who are for popularity picks other than need. I agree, maybe they should've picked Reggie Bush, but their defense was ranked 32nd in the league. What good is it to score 40 points a game when the defense is giving up 41?? I agree they should have picked an offensive lineman to help protect Carr. They needed help defensively, and you might be surprised how well Williams does. Would you been satisifed if he led the league in sacks??? paycheck for paycheck Dajerx?? You're on.

Look, for all you Bush fans, I agree he is electrifying, but what good does having all that offense and no defense??? Can any of you answer that?? I think not. Why don't you ask the Colts if defense wins championships??

The truly good teams have good cores, meaning the defensive and offensive lines are intact, and with Houston, that is not the case, although getting Williams is a good start

Leinart has a laundry list of holes? like what? his arm strength? Leinart has been studying NFL defenses for over 2 years now while he was USC. what was Young doing? nothing. a harsh reality check is going to come when he realizes a NFL offensive coordinator is not going to "dummify" an offense to suit his athletic skills. case in point, Michael Vick. Vick has to LEARN the West Coast offense, not have the West Coast offense completely changed to fit his athletic abilities. Vick is actually a smart guy, so i know Young will have problems.

the whole Vince Young is not bright theory comes from the simple fact that he ran a very simple offense in college. the second thing is his interviews. have you ever really listened to Vince Young? and third, the Wonderlic score. now Vince Young will not be a bust, he will be AVERAGE. all these people that think he is going to be great are going to realize Young is an average Quarterback. he's a great guy, a tremendous athlete, but NOT a quarterback for the NFL.

Leinart is going to do well. he went to a team that is loading up on offensive weapons. Dennis Green teams usually has great offenses. Edgerrin James, Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Bolden are bonafide stars. Leinart will learn under Warner and when given his chance, expect Leinart to become a future great quarterback. he is mentally prepared to play in the NFL.

as for the Texans. they screwed up. Mario Williams is a good athlete, but a guy like Reggie Bush do not come around very often. it is going to be interesting next year.

Yanno, Prime, it seems to me that you think Young is the only QB in the universe that ever had his playbook simplified. It is obvious in your built in resentment of the man. I just wanna see the look in your face when this kid does succeed. Just say nothing, and pick your face off the ground

It also seems to me people have missed the point. You draft on NEED and not what is popular. Yes, again I say Bush is electrifying, but what good is a electrifying offense and no defense?? The Colts learned that harsh reality

i do not resent Vince Young, i just wonder why people are so enamored with this guy. Vince Young is a good human being, but his QB skills are shaky. his mechanics arent strong, he played in a gimmick offense and his intellect is questionable. tell me Natural Tickler, name a quarterback from college that succeeded in a "gimmick" offense in college, then became great in the NFL.

keep in mind that even some of the most "successful" quarterbacks from college, end up busts in the NFL. Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington come to mind. look at Akili Smith. highly touted, good athlete. BUST. Vince Young will be the same.

all this crap about his National title game performance should be reviewed more closely. Vince Young's performance was heroic, but he did it against a defense that was shaky. opponents were able to move the ball against USC all year. Fresno State had over 500 yards of offense against them, passing and rushing. Vince Young is a good athlete, but he is no NFL quarterback. please reflect on this post when he ends up becoming a career backup or a Tight End.

i am curious as to why you think Vince Young is going to be highly successful. i say he is overrated and gave reasons why. give me reasons why you think he is going to be good.

I had to leave before day 2 started, I rang up my friend (he has no idea about NFL) I asked him to give me the draft list; blah blah he goes through the names the Raiders picked and he goes Darnell Bing in the 4th round I asked if that was the USC safety he had no idea. I got home today and checked raiders.com sure enough it was him. I think this is the biggest steal of the draft we all knew Leinart was going in the 1st round granted we all thought before pick 10 but Bing in the 4th round wow, most experts had him going in the 1st or 2nd rounds I think that was a steal.

Vick not getting drafted suprised me I just hope he gets at least a chance.

The NFC north I said contend not win it plus maybe 6 games might win it. The Vikings now have lost both Culpepper and Moss and now rely on their D which can be the best one week and the worse the week after. The Lions are the Lions. The Bears will be found out and I doubt that they can reproduce the same effort as last season. This leave the Packers who have major holes but did a simple but effective job of their defense, plus Farve is Farve.

Kust

Vince Young will be highly successful because like Michael Vick, he is a threat to score everytime he touches the ball. He has deceptive speed for a big QB, and his athleticism will overcome any so called mental deficiency you claim he has

Give the man credit for what he did in the Rose Bowl. Texas wasn't even supposed to win this game, and yes the USC defense did give up a lot of yards against Fresno State, their defense is no slouches either. Take a look at the draft, a few of them got drafted. It was one of the best championship performances seen in years, give him credit for that. Why don't you give a chance before throwing him under the bus??? Quit putting salt on the man's tail.

One last thing. At some point, I'm willing to bet almost all QB's had the playbooks adjusted for them at point. I wouldn't even call simplifying, I call adjustment to fit their style. Nothing is wrong with that, as long as it works. You of all people should know that

I would not say he (V. Young) will be successful like M. Vick(Id be insulting V.Young) After all Vick's carrer passer rating is not that great, and true he might have a decent record as a starter, but he's missed a lot games and his ability is good as an athlete, as a passer he is not as great as a lot of people like to pretend/believe, and he has been trying for how many years now?
Vick should not have been in the Pro-Bowl last year, he only got there on name recognition. Vick is at best the Top passing HB in the league...well until now. Vince Young will make M.Vick look like MMMMSick.
Yonug might not be the smartest or the best of 3 QB's selected in the 1st round but he certainly was the best athlete out of 3. And you teach an athlete to be a QB, but you cant teach a QB to be an athlete.
Thats just my take on the whole situation.

Rob

oh give me a break Natural tickler. do you even realize what you are writing? Vince Young is in now way shape or form close to the athleticism of Michael Vick. Vince Young will NOT be able to do what he did in the NFL like he did at Texas. NFL linebackers are too fast. Vince Young is going to get smashed if he tries to run. Vick gets away with it because Vick is too damn fast.

as for Young's performance in the Rose Bowl. yeah, he did good, but c'mon, who didnt run or throw all over USC that year. that defense had too many holes, too many injuries and just flat out sucked. if he played against the USC defense from the year before with Lofa Tatupu and Matt Grootegoed, Vince Young gets his ass kicked. pay attention.

again, if Mack Brown had to COMPLETELY change his offense at Texas just to accomodate Vince Young, that means Young doesnt function well in a typical NFL offense. look at Alex Smith for example. he played in the same type of offense that Vince Young ran at Texas and looked how well he did in his rookie year and Alex Smith actually has a brain. if you ever stop and listen to Vince Young's interviews, you can tell he doesnt realize how hard the NFL will be. he thinks he can simply drop back from under center quickly, so it's like he's in the shotgun. what a moron. yeah, he will learn the hard way. he better try to become a Tight End because he will not succeed at Quarterback unless someone works with him for like 7 years.

i am curious though. why do you think Vince Young will do well?

Vince young in my opinion has two type of players he could develop into; 1 would be a Steve Mcnair type QB, a player that could make plays with his legs but also but up 260-280 yards through the air a game or number 2 is that he will only be another Kordell Stewart type athlete.

But I will wait to pass judgement until he has thrown a pass in the NFL and that goes for Leinart as well. A part of me thinks Leinart will fail and that goes for the same logic as any other rookie QB, a NFL defense is faster and harder then a college D.

Only time will tell.

Kust

That answer Prime is simple

Vince Young is a threat to score everytime he touches the ball. He has deceptive speed for a man his size. And just think when his mechanics is sound, he will be as good as advertised.

Oh and one more thing Prime, the playbook isn't simplified, and he is having a pretty good minicamp, how about that??

Young is a threat to score in college. the NFL is a much more faster game. Vince Young will not be able to do what he did in college, in the NFL. he isnt fast like Vick. wait and see.

oh yeah, i also heard reports from his "minicamp" that he is indeed struggling. keep in mind, this is MINICAMP. when training camp comes by, and when he has to play a GAME, then he will be exposed. wait and see. and when he does struggle for YEARS, remember this conversation. if he struggles in his rookie season, i wont say anything because he is a rookie. if he isnt a good NFL QB by year 3, he is DONE. mark my words.