Question:

Okay, so I was watching this movie early this evening called, The Storm of the Century. For those that don't know, this was a TV mini-series based off of a book by Stephen King.

Anyways, the main focus of the movie is that there's this demonic man wandering the town during this epic snow storm. He kills people and has them kill themselves and each other, before they die he has them write somewhere where it will be viewed; "Give me what I want and I will go away."

What does he want? A child. He's not portrayed as a God or an immortal, so he knows he's going to be dead in sometime and wants a protégé to raise and teach.

He propositions the town, either give him one of the 8 children or he will kill all of them. (including all the children)

This really fucked me up to watch them debate heavily over what to do. But, on the other hand I understood why the need to.

Do you give up a child, be it your own or not, or do you have him kill everyone in town? The man tried to (obviously) make it sound more ideal to just give up a child, claiming that the kid would live longer then any of them, see everything and know everything as well.

My question is, what would you pick and why?

I don't want to turn this into a debate about religion, but here's
what I would choose, and why I would choose it.

I'd pick for him to kill all of us. I wouldn't want to give my child
to the dark side. I'd rather we all went to heaven early, instead.
And although I'm sure not everyone in the town would go, I know
the innocent ones (children) and the saved would go.

me, i would fight to the death to protect my family. even though i know that we'd all end up dead, i'd go out fighting. but that's just me.

if i had to make a choice as bad as it sounds give up a kid.. it would save everyone else in the town.. it would be for the greater good

I think you have to refuse to give in to it, for the same reason that you can't give in to terrorism or extortion: you just make it easier for them the next time. I think you have to fight and resist, and if it means everyone dies, then that's the price that you pay.

It's not unlike the scene in the Dark Knight where the two ferries have each others bomb switch and they can either all die, or be the first one to blow up the other boat. Ultimately they decide they'd rather die with their humanity intact than save themselves by doing something unforgivable.

Well I haven't seen the movie, but to answer the question... Had I still been a child, I would probably have volunteered to go. Had I been at my current age, I would pretty much have told one of the kids: "Well, it was nice knowing you, but take the hit for the team!" although I would have said it in a much more pedagogical way of course. I'm not sure I would have FORCED one of the kids to go, but... I think I would, should it come to that.

MTP Jeff said:

I think you have to refuse to give in to it, for the same reason that you can't give in to terrorism or extortion: you just make it easier for them the next time. I think you have to fight and resist, and if it means everyone dies, then that's the price that you pay.

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So, you basically are saying you would die for a principle of belief?

Easy kill him instead.

storm7400 said:

Easy kill him instead.

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You can't. 🙂

CrystalLight said:

So, you basically are saying you would die for a principle of belief?

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Some principles, I like to think I would. I would die rather than sacrifice a child to save my own life, and I would expect anyone else to make that choice too.

I think in the specific circumstance you're talking about, my answer would be, fine, kill us all. And eventually one of us will figure out how to kill this guy, or he'll run out of people to kill. But he can't turn us into something that we're not.

There were always 2 things that bothered me about that movie from the get go:

1. For such a heavy decision for the town to make, NOBODY ASKED ENOUGH QUESTIONS. After whetting their fear and appetites for 2 hours, Linoge finally reveals basic and sensitive information about himself, mostly because he trusts the people can keep quiet about the entire affair to the outside world. So with an all-knowing semi-immortal being right in front of you answering questions freely--or at least admitting what he can't reveal--NOBODY BOTHERED TO ASK WHAT THE POINT WAS. In fact, the sheriff was the only guy who seemed to have his thoughts together well enough to think...was the WHOLE TOWN STUPID?

Linoge never really lied...he wanted what he wanted for the reason he wanted it, and what made the ending as horrible as it was that it WAS that simple. In fact, telling the truth--just not all at once--was most of who he was; he said the child would learn what he learned and knew what he knew, so there MUST'VE been a reason. Even his parting words: "maybe you fooled yourselves" isn't a lie, he's telling the truth. So they could've asked him all sorts of additional information, but they never did, even though they had nothing to do BUT think when he made his ultimatum.

2. SHOOT. THE. FUCKER.
Every single time someone pulls a gun on Linoge, he always uses his powers to create a Mexican standoff. He never tries to pull a Darth Vader and yank the gun out or wave his hand and deflect the bullet. HE IS APPARENTLY AFRAID OF GETTING SHOT. WHICH MEANS HE MIGHT BE KILLABLE. The scene where he threatens to turn one of the citizens into a "roman candle" was a perfect opportunity to try, but the sheriff put the gun down. He could've risked ONE person's life to maybe successfully kill their assailant, but doesn't. And since that scene preceded Linoge's ultimatum, Linoge would've let it slide--his mission too important to scrap everything on a whim. At the very least they would've known whether or not it was worth it and they might not have lost a child in the process; they didn't know it then but they had nothing to lose at that point.

There was no overt reference to God or traditional Christianity in the movie though. Linoge references Atlantis, a legend which contextually predates Abrahamic mythology (it's not in Genesis or Exodus), and never really indicates that he is evil; he's strict, he's firm and he's sadistic, but everything he does seems to be based on an unknown job that somehow relates to knowledge: his glee at revealing people's secrets seems to be directly related to rubbing their noses in the fact that they keep them at all. He has a job to do, and this is part of it, but he never says who's job he's doing or what the agenda is. He's not immortal, and isn't afraid of dying, just unwilling to die without a replacement--since when do demons need replacements, especially if it hasn't been established what he is? Do fangs and psychic powers make him a demon or an ancient lifeform? Linoge seems to be burdened with his responsibility and his "evilness" seems to be in response to when people slow him down.

What I really liked about the movie was the post-storm anger. The sheriff never forgives the people, especially his wife for what they did and I liked the kind of pathetic way the townspeople tried to make it up to him or by asking forgiveness--except for the ones who killed themselves. Although I thought it would've been nice to see him randomly pistol-whip people in the streets afterward, you can't have everything.

MTP Jeff said:

*snip* or he'll run out of people to kill. *snip*

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Well, the question is, how many human lives is a lone child worth? Keep in mind that this person does not only want to friggin' kill you dead, but he has the means to easily do so as well. There's nothing you can do about it. What if he moves on and does the same thing elsewhere, once he finishes you all off? What if they also refuse to give up a child? It is counter-produvtive for the future of us all to be stubborn in this particular case, but by that I don't mean we should cave in to the demands of, say, terrorists, as you brought up earlier. But let's take this to an extreme and say he kills off every single human on Earth because there is no way to stop him... was it worth it?

Like Amn said....he had a job to do and needed to train a replacement. He always told the truth and even stated he was not one of the Immortals. They never asked what his purpose on Earth was or if he was of "the dark side". You will also remember that he really hurt no one who hadn't done some type of evil in there lives, by his recogning. Well, except Davey who was too damn short to play basketball.

As to whether give up a child or not to save the entire town....I don't know what I would do since this is fiction. I know I would fight if my daughter was on the line in real life so I guess I would vote not to let him have a child. But I would ask better questions of Linoge than the characters in the film did. Questions like what exactly is his so called job.

Amnesiac said:

So they could've asked him all sorts of additional information, but they never did, even though they had nothing to do BUT think when he made his ultimatum.

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I completely understand where you're coming from with that. However, what difference would additional information have made? And basically it made no difference, he was either going to take a child or kill all of them.

Do you think that there was possibly something more to that?

Every single time someone pulls a gun on Linoge, he always uses his powers to create a Mexican standoff. He never tries to pull a Darth Vader and yank the gun out or wave his hand and deflect the bullet. HE IS APPARENTLY AFRAID OF GETTING SHOT. WHICH MEANS HE MIGHT BE KILLABLE.

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I think I might have missed something, but wasn't there a scene where he actually caught a bullet? At the holding cell in the store? And how can someone like him be killable and still able to posess someone's mind enough so they kill themselves?

I don't think sticking a couple rounds into him would've done much given how much power he had expressed.

At the very least they would've known whether or not it was worth it and they might not have lost a child in the process; they didn't know it then but they had nothing to lose at that point.

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Given different circumstances, sure. But they had just got done having a group dream of that magnitude, and don't forget he had already gotten to the children. So, perhaps they thought if they shot him, then the children would die with him.

and never really indicates that he is evil;

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How do you figure? He killed the old lady in the beginning. As well as "dropping" one of the town's people to their death.

So, you basically are saying you would die for a principle of belief?

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Some principles, I like to think I would. I would die rather than sacrifice a child to save my own life, and I would expect anyone else to make that choice too.

I think in the specific circumstance you're talking about, my answer would be, fine, kill us all. And eventually one of us will figure out how to kill this guy, or he'll run out of people to kill. But he can't turn us into something that we're not.

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Jeff beat me to it. I have to agree or refusing to be forced to make that choice; I'm going down fighting tooth and nail before I purposely sacrifice one of my babies or anyone else's and I'd fully expect the rest of the adults to do the same. I couldn't live with being the kind of person who did anything less.

It's simply a classic contest between good and evil. Evil will stop at nothing to tempt people away from their morals and priciples and use them against the good. Whereas good has to show their worth by overcoming evil while remaining true to their goodness. Never an easy thing, those situations.

Personally, I'd die trying to take the fucker down, thus sparing the children and the town. Whether I go myself or others go with me doesn't matter.

The old lady at the beginning of the film was always under suspition of killing her husband many years ago. Appearently Linoge decided to start there and was waiting to be arrested. So we can assume that she was guilty.

Damn Jo, now I have to watch this movie again tonight since I can't sleep.

slacker2114 said:

Personally, I'd die trying to take the fucker down, thus sparing the children and the town. Whether I go myself or others go with me doesn't matter.

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Commendable, absolutely. But in doing so, if you were killed then that means everyone else will be too, for not giving up a child and resisting. That doesn't influence you?

I'm not purposely trying to disagree, I'm just trying to throw other element's in there with it. 🙂

kered said:

The old lady at the beginning of the film was always under suspition of killing her husband many years ago. Appearently Lenoge decided to start there and was waiting to be arrested. So we can assume that she was guilty.

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Really?? Where in the movie does it explain that? I totally think I missed that.

Damn Jo, now I have to watch this movie again tonight since I can't sleep.

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LOL. It's a great movie, isn't it?

CrystalLight said:

How do you figure? He killed the old lady in the beginning. As well as "dropping" one of the town's people to their death.

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Hahaha! Oh wow! I want to watch this movie so badly, now! XD

CrystalLight said:

Commendable, absolutely. But in doing so, if you were killed then that means everyone else will be too, for not giving up a child and resisting. That doesn't influence you?

I'm not purposely trying to disagree, I'm just trying to throw other element's in there with it. 🙂

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Die on your feet or live on your knees. I'll take dying on my feet every time. Like Jeff said, if you give in once it'll never stop. In a case like that, it's best to make a stand. By giving him the child, you're betraying yourself and what you believe and in essence, makes you no better than the evil one.

So yeah, we all either go down fighting or live with the shame that we were all cowards. It's a shitty thing to have happen with all the deaths, but at least you died for what you believe to be right.

Carsomyr said:

Hahaha! Oh wow! I want to watch this movie so badly, now! XD

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You should. It's epical awesomeness.

It's long though.

slacker2114 said:

Die on your feet or live on your knees. I'll take dying on my feet every time. Like Jeff said, if you give in once it'll never stop. In a case like that, it's best to make a stand. By giving him the child, you're betraying yourself and what you believe and in essence, makes you no better than the evil one.

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Wow. That's an awesome quote. Srsly.

So yeah, we all either go down fighting or live with the shame that we were all cowards. It's a shitty thing to have happen with all the deaths, but at least you died for what you believe to be right.

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The ending was ironic to that too, but I won't spoil it. 😛

Basically the one's who agreed to ridding a child had issues and the one's who didn't agree, lived decently afterwards.

slacker2114 said:

Die on your feet or live on your knees. I'll take dying on my feet every time. Like Jeff said, if you give in once it'll never stop. In a case like that, it's best to make a stand. By giving him the child, you're betraying yourself and what you believe and in essence, makes you no better than the evil one.

So yeah, we all either go down fighting or live with the shame that we were all cowards. It's a shitty thing to have happen with all the deaths, but at least you died for what you believe to be right.

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Well... in a way you are responsible for so many deaths if you don't give in. Think of the children that WOULD NOT have been saccrificed for example. I think choosing death is just as unethical, if not moreso, than to agree to the demands. Who are you to choose death for all those children, as an example, because I'm fairly sure that all of them would rather choose life than to die for the ideals of the grown-up world. Remember that this is such an extreme situation, that the rules we use in our everyday life, and the ways to defend our ideals... they don't really apply anymore, because they were never meant to be used in circumstances like this one.

By giving up a child, especially if it volunteers, then you do not only save everyone else, but that child still has a chance to make it as well. Even if the child is in the claws of a man trying to turn it to evil, the child could resist if his or her will was strong enough. The child is in no way doomed, because believe it or not; kids can be tougher than adults sometimes.

However, what difference would additional information have made? And basically it made no difference, he was either going to take a child or kill all of them. - Crystal Light

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Well, if Linoge isn't actually evil, then giving away a child would be VERY hard, but it would be easier knowing that he WILL gain power, WILL gain knowledge, WILL remember his past life, and WON'T be evil. In a way it'd be like sending your child away on a permanent scholarship, just...you know, before you want to.

However, added to this, they never asked what happens to them AFTER they drop into the ocean...if they all drown together do they all go to the same place?

THAT'S why additional information is important...helps you make the LEAST painful decision.

I think I might have missed something, but wasn't there a scene where he actually caught a bullet? At the holding cell in the store? And how can someone like him be killable and still able to posess someone's mind enough so they kill themselves?...I don't think sticking a couple rounds into him would've done much given how much power he had expressed.

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I don't think he did, he always distracted them with visions and fear or threatening others. He didn't show any actual bulletproofness. Added to which if he WAS bulletproof, he probably would've demonstrated it so they didn't try again, and it would've made them receptive to his demands knowing that they were helpless.

He had psychokinetic powers...to affect matter and energy with his mind (he IS making the storm after all) but we were never sure how powerful they were. Maybe a bullet would've been too fast to stop.

So, perhaps they thought if they shot him, then the children would die with him.

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I think it was JUST before he got to the children. When he was threatened with a gun in the town hall, he threatened to drop them, but when he was threatened in the boarding house, he threatened a woman's life. The children weren't in danger at that time. I think.

What if he moves on and does the same thing elsewhere, once he finishes you all off?
Carsomyr

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Yeah I figured that out after a little while. At first i didn't notice it, I thought they had him by the balls too if they were willing to die just to fuck him, but Linoge would've lived long enough to do it again elsewhere and likely with the same results. He was likely the one who did it at Roanake, but why he waited so damn long before doing it again was never answered.

Another thing is that humans were to Linoge as ants are to us (or maybe a larger but short-lived and less intelligent species) so its likely he doesn't feel the same sort of pain from loss as we do. He DID illustrate the benefits the child would receive by going with him, which indicates that he knew that mattered to them, but that his empathy wasn't the same. Do we feel bad about ants we kill because they're in our kitchen?

"Sorry guys but I have a kitchen to run and you're in the way"

Also, seeing and knowing what this guy does, it's likely he doesn't have any optimistic notions about human nature.

And on another note Crystal, with the right information, it's possible that the citizen who chose could demand that they have the chance to say goodbye first. That way there's SOME closure and the town is saved. And maybe even then a chance to see their kid again some day by asking him to return. It's possible, but because they panicked and turned on each other--because they didn't ask--they never had the chance.

What it would boil down to is this: could you willingly sacrifice another person for the uncertain guarentee that you would live? Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I did something like that. It would be something that you'd carry around with you for the rest of your life. The guilt, the shame...is it worth it? And since you're dealing with someone who is obviously unscrupulous and evil that they would place you in that position to begin with, there are no sure things that it won't keep coming back and demanding more.

And if you were the type of person who says "I can live with that", then that person would be just as bad as the evil one. You would then be a person of no moral fiber, no compassion for others and would in essence be souless, for lack of a better term.

On a side note, a lot of Stephen King books have had that sort of thing in them: good vs. evil, good sacrificing any and everything to prevent evil from winning, making a stand against all odds. That sort of thing. Of all his books like that, I think The Stand (my personal favorite) is the best example of all that.