Question:

[slacker2114]

Well... in a way you are responsible for so many deaths if you don't give in. Think of the children that WOULD NOT have been saccrificed for example. I think choosing death is just as unethical, if not moreso, than to agree to the demands. Who are you to choose death for all those children, as an example, because I'm fairly sure that all of them would rather choose life than to die for the ideals of the grown-up world. Remember that this is such an extreme situation, that the rules we use in our everyday life, and the ways to defend our ideals... they don't really apply anymore, because they were never meant to be used in circumstances like this one.

By giving up a child, especially if it volunteers, then you do not only save everyone else, but that child still has a chance to make it as well. Even if the child is in the claws of a man trying to turn it to evil, the child could resist if his or her will was strong enough. The child is in no way doomed, because believe it or not; kids can be tougher than adults sometimes.

But are the deaths of all those people not worth it to keep someone who's, in essence, a demon from winning and essentially corrupting the souls of what would otherwise be good and noble people? I would think that by fighting back and not giving in saves the souls of those who would otherwise be damned for giving in to such evil.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Well... in a way you are responsible for so many deaths if you don't give in. Think of the children that WOULD NOT have been sacrificed for example. I think choosing death is just as unethical, if not moreso, than to agree to the demands.

That's what was really hard for me to think about. The factor of putting someone's child or even my own up for some demon to take, or risk the deaths of everyone. There's a lot of a mental battle with that, it's almost as if there's no right way to do it.

Except maybe trying to kill the man, but if he lives, then you're basically guaranteeing death.

Well, if Linoge isn't actually evil, then giving away a child would be VERY hard, but it would be easier knowing that he WILL gain power, WILL gain knowledge, WILL remember his past life, and WON'T be evil. In a way it'd be like sending your child away on a permanent scholarship, just...you know, before you want to.

Where is the implication of that? Linoge was clearly evil as he caused all of those things to happen. And in the end when the constable saw them on the street, don't you think his son would have run back to him?

If he wasn't evil, don't you think he would have let the parent's see their child?

However, added to this, they never asked what happens to them AFTER they drop into the ocean...if they all drown together do they all go to the same place?

Well, they mentioned it being a mass suicide. Suicide is viewed as a sin and grants you a seat to hell. They must've assumed that?

I don't think he did, he always distracted them with visions and fear or threatening others. He didn't show any actual bulletproofness. Added to which if he WAS bulletproof, he probably would've demonstrated it so they didn't try again, and it would've made them receptive to his demands knowing that they were helpless.

In the holding cell, when the Town 'manager' had the gun and shot it off. And Linoge leaned forward and dropped the bullet into the constable's hand. Did he not catch the bullet that was shot at him?

He had psychokinetic powers...to affect matter and energy with his mind (he IS making the storm after all) but we were never sure how powerful they were. Maybe a bullet would've been too fast to stop.

Then how did he end up with a bullet in his hand?

He was likely the one who did it at Roanake, but why he waited so damn long before doing it again was never answered.

What impact to the outcome do you think that would've made? Like the town's people wouldn't be in that predicament if he didn't wait as long?

Do we feel bad about ants we kill because they're in our kitchen?

True. But we don't need ants that bad. He clearly really needed a child.

What it would boil down to is this: could you willingly sacrifice another person for the uncertain guarantee that you would live? Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I did something like that. It would be something that you'd carry around with you for the rest of your life. The guilt, the shame...is it worth it? And since you're dealing with someone who is obviously unscrupulous and evil that they would place you in that position to begin with, there are no sure things that it won't keep coming back and demanding more.

That's the other aspect that sucked. If you *did* give up a child, and the town lives, you'd still have to remember every day. You can't replace the baby with a new one. And you'll never erase the memory of knowing that your/someone's child is out there, never to return home again.

And if you were the type of person who says "I can live with that", then that person would be just as bad as the evil one. You would then be a person of no moral fiber, no compassion for others and would in essence be soulless, for lack of a better term.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, but do you also think that maybe the person is trying to think of more people then just one? Like-- 'trimming the fat', if you will. "It's better to lose one, then 500+." Is what I'm basically trying to ask.

On a side note, a lot of Stephen King books have had that sort of thing in them: good vs. evil, good sacrificing any and everything to prevent evil from winning, making a stand against all odds. That sort of thing. Of all his books like that, I think The Stand (my personal favorite) is the best example of all that.

I've noticed that too. And he's also big about making folks have choices. What's behind door A, B, C, etc.

 

[Carsomyr]

Sorry for disecting your post, Slacker, but I won't be able to get my point across if I don't.

What it would boil down to is this: could you willingly sacrifice another person for the uncertain guarentee that you would live?

Not really uncertain, since if he was just going to ask for more then he might as well take what he wanted to start with, and then kill us all right away.

To answer your question though, yes I could willingly saccrifice another person if I believed that it was rational to do so. I would even saccrifice myself if need be. Having us all die will accomplish nothing, it's just foolish. We seemingly have no way to fight back, so let's live long enough to figure something out.

Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I did something like that.

Well, that's who you are. Commendable in a way, and I respect that, but I do not necesarily think of it as a good quality in cases such as this one.

It would be something that you'd carry around with you for the rest of your life.

Yes, well something like this would be kinda hard to forget, regardless of the outcome. 😉

The guilt, the shame...is it worth it?

Yes, most definitely. And no, I wouldn't feel guilt, shame, or any other negative feeling. It was out of my hands and no one can blame me for taking the most rationalistic path. If anything, I should be commended for being able to keep my head cool enough to do it, rather than just panicing. 😛

And if you were the type of person who says "I can live with that", then that person would be just as bad as the evil one. You would then be a person of no moral fiber, no compassion for others and would in essence be souless, for lack of a better term.

I guess I am evil incarnate then! 😀

Actually, I sort of take offense to that, it's like me calling you stupid and blinded by your ideals. I mean so you're calling me a soulless evildoer with no compassion or sense of morality??? Believe me, I have a VERY good idea of what's right and wrong, and there's nothing wrong about my morality or compassion either. Anyway, I don't see how you can judge me like that without even knowing me. My ultimate goal is to make the world a better place, and that can't really be achieved if there is no one left to live in it.

But are the deaths of all those people not worth it to keep someone who's, in essence, a demon from winning and essentially corrupting the souls of what would otherwise be good and noble people? I would think that by fighting back and not giving in saves the souls of those who would otherwise be damned for giving in to such evil.

I'm not playing the religion lottery, I get the feeling that's what you're talking about. But no, needlessly giving up lives can never be justified - especially when there is a better alternative, and trust me, there always is. Also remember that there is JUST ONE person being saccrificed. If that person does it voluntarily, then it's definitely ok. If there is no one volunteering, then you will just have to play "rock, paper, scissor" or something.

 

[Carsomyr]

That's what was really hard for me to think about. The factor of putting someone's child or even my own up for some demon to take, or risk the deaths of everyone. There's a lot of a mental battle with that, it's almost as if there's no right way to do it.

Except maybe trying to kill the man, but if he lives, then you're basically guaranteeing death.

I was under the impression that fighting back was pretty hopeless in this scenario?

There isn't always a clear line between right and wrong, the world isn't just black and white. When you find a grey area, that's when you have to sit down and think. Morality basically goes out the window since it doesn't apply anymore, and you'll have to settle with what is the most prudent course of action instead. Morality can still influence your decision, of course, but it shouldn't force your hand.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

I was under the impression that fighting back was pretty hopeless in this scenario?

It is. Well, that's how it was implied. Whatever this man was made up of, was too much for the town's people to be able to just shoot and kill.

Morality can still influence your decision, of course, but it shouldn't force your hand.

Do you think you could live with yourself if put under this type of situation and chose to rid a child instead of risking the whole town?

 

[Carsomyr]

It is. Well, that's how it was implied. Whatever this man was made up of, was too much for the town's people to be able to just shoot and kill.

Oohkay, as long as this applies, then my answer to your question below is:

Do you think you could live with yourself if put under this type of situation and chose to rid a child instead of risking the whole town?

Without a doubt. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it at all. Call me heartless if you wish, I don't really care. lol

I'm just human after all, and I'm facing what can most closely be likened to a demon. It's not like I am facing "just another human", this is far beyond my capabilities to handle and I won't shy away from admitting that.

PS. This doesn't mean that I backstab and saccrifice people on a regular basis or anything like that. Just so you know... XD In any other situation, I wouldn't have been fine with doing this. It's the whole "supernatural being there is no hope" thing that does it for me.

 

[CurtWild]

give up a child

if you can't kill it then there is no point in fighting it.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Without a doubt. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it at all. Call me heartless if you wish, I don't really care. lol

Under those types of circumstances, I wouldn't call you that at all.

PS. This doesn't mean that I backstab and saccrifice people on a regular basis or anything like that. Just so you know... XD In any other situation, I wouldn't have been fine with doing this. It's the whole "supernatural being there is no hope" thing that does it for me.

Agreed. 🙂 This is based on most extreme conditions, so it's all good.

 

[Carsomyr]

Under those types of circumstances, I wouldn't call you that at all.

Yay me then! 😀 Because I am well aware that I haven't given the "politically correct" answer, if there is such a thing for this question... 😛

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Yay me then! 😀 Because I am well aware that I haven't given the "politically correct" answer, if there is such a thing for this question... 😛

lawl.

I don't think so.

 

[McNoodle]

Conversely, could you live without fear after knowing that demons exist? Right now I don't fear anything supernatural but you can damned sure bet that will change if I ever run into something. 😛
Back on topic... Adults have a responsibility to protect children in my opinion. I would rather do whatever I can to protect all of them and if we all die at least I have retained my humanity and a measure of pride.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Conversely, could you live without fear after knowing that demons exist? Right now I don't fear anything supernatural but you can damned sure bet that will change if I ever run into something. 😛

Honestly? I believe that they are out there.

 

[Carsomyr]

Honestly? I believe that they are out there.

I agree, there is no other explanation for my existence, judging from what some people in this thread think about those who'd rather not die! 😀

More seriously, I think it's a bit unfair to say that ones humanity is at stake in this situation. I also think it's pretty obvious that I can't let go of it, lol. I'm not really THAT offended, but I feel accused, and that's just as bad in my opinion! 😛

 

[Deleted member 66627]

More seriously, I think it's a bit unfair to say that ones humanity is at stake in this situation. I also think it's pretty obvious that I can't let go of it, lol. I'm not really THAT offended, but I feel accused, and that's just as bad in my opinion! 😛

How do you feel accused? 😵

 

[McNoodle]

I don't think any of us here are trying to pass judgement on each other. If my opinion is not complimentary to yours it certainly doesn't indicate an attack on your position. I am pretty sure there is no right/wrong answer and I am damned sure it is a lose/lose situation.

Pls note as well... I would of done a quote but somehow CL made them all funky like so they aren't working properly 😛

 

[Homer28]

For me personally, I'd rather die for pretty much the same reason as brighteyes. Also for me if I were to live but the guy got a child, I would not be able to live with my self. I really think death would be easier then that.

PS. Leave it to Jo to watch a Stephen King movie ans start a philosophical thread

 

[kered]

Born in lust, turn to dust
Born in sin, come on in......~ Andre Linoge

 

[Deleted member 66627]

For me personally, I'd rather die for pretty much the same reason as brighteyes. Also for me if I were to live but the guy got a child, I would not be able to live with my self. I really think death would be easier then that.

PS. Leave it to Jo to watch a Stephen King movie ans start a philosophical thread

HUSH YA MOUTH! 😛

Born in lust, turn to dust
Born in sin, come on in......~ Andre Linoge

Ya know, I never really got what that meant.

 

[Cy/MiG]

What Brighteyes, Falcon and Jeff (among others) said.

I wouldn't give in to 'evil' (or whatever it's called by whomever.)

Great question, great dilemma.

 

[Mister Scruff]

Give him a child. Why not? Sounds like the kid would get a decent education and whatnot, and best of all everyone gets to stay alive.

 

[Carsomyr]

How do you feel accused? 😵

lol, the whole "I wouldn't do it because I don't want to lose my humanity" amongst other things. I was like "well thanks a lot" XD but apparently it wasn't aimed like that so... plus I was cranky from staying up all night 🙂 lol

 

[punkrockergirl]

i think its an easy choice give up one kid, or have all the kids and everyone else die.. why have all the kids and everyone die instead of giving up one kid

 

[-Hari-]

i think its an easy choice give up one kid, or have all the kids and everyone else die.. why have all the kids and everyone die instead of giving up one kid

The easy choice aint always the right one, imagine how that child would feel? and imagine how you would feel after? sure youve saved everyone else but youve handed over someone against theyre will.

Anyway... whos to say that that child wouldnt be brought up to do exactly the same as his new found mentor? And be putting peoples lives at risk yet again in the future?

Only way is to fight it there and then and hope you can win, no-ones unstoppable, theres always another way.

 

[TMF Jeff]

The easy choice aint always the right one, imagine how that child would feel? and imagine how you would feel after? sure youve saved everyone else but youve handed over someone against theyre will.

Anyway... whos to say that that child wouldnt be brought up to do exactly the same as his new found mentor? And be putting peoples lives at risk yet again in the future?

Only way is to fight it there and then and hope you can win, no-ones unstoppable, theres always another way.

Also what if he turns right around six months later and says "Great, now I want another kid, or two kids." Where do you draw that line?

 

[-Hari-]

Also what if he turns right around six months later and says "Great, now I want another kid, or two kids." Where do you draw that line?

exactly, once theyve already proven that they arent strong enuf to refuse, theres nothing stopping him coming back for more,

And why trust the word of a guy whos threatening your life? You draw the line at day one and spit in his face....over the line 😛