Do you think you have the right to tell others how to raise their kids?

Do you think you have the right to tell others how to raise their kids?

Pigging backing on “what kids needs today” thread, where some of you believe that a child should never be touch. Do you think you have the right to tell others how to raise their kids?

You said that you would never lay a hand or spank your child /ren, for no reason. You believe as adults we should be able to control the situation with out any type of violence or corporal punishment. So I want you to tell me what you do about these 4 scenarios

Scenario 1.

You walk in a store where an 8 year old is cursing out their parent /s or screaming from the top of their lungs the middle of the store because the parents would not but them what they want. Do you think the parent should slap that child in the mouth? If they do would you ran to the child add? How would you handle the problem?

Scenario 2.

A child /ren continue to run in and out of traffic; you heard the parent/s warn them many times to stop just for them to ignore them continue doing what they want.
Do you think the parent/s should spank the child/ren butt? If they do would you ran to the child add? How would you handle the problem?

Scenario 3

A child becomes upset because they want the newest (whatever to be like or better than their friends), they started to throw a fit. Breaking up stuff and fling things all over the house, cursing you out call you all type of bitches, *****s, sluts. …….. Because you said no or cannot offer it.
Do you think that child needs a serious ass whupping or how would you handle the problem?

Lastly

Scenario 4

If you see someone spanking or hitting their kids in public using their hands or a belt aiming for them buttocks, do you run to the child aid than start to chastise the parent in front of their kids and in public?

There was a case in Minnesota not to long ago when a woman was tire of her son acting a fool in the mall, she took off her belt and started to spank the child on the hands or buttock, cant remember which one.

A woman in an Easter bunny custom ran over and grab the belt from the woman, than commence to start chastising her in the mall. Before anyone knew it the woman started to beat the Easter bunny ass in the mall in front of all the kids. When the police came and broke it up, the woman in the bunny outfit wanted the other woman arrested. The police told her that she would be the one being arrested because she interfered with the woman punishing her child, and the fight was a result of her interference.

I wouldn't tell a person how to raise their children out of the blue. If someone put the subject up for discussion (like in your "what children need" post) then yeah, I'm going to say what I want.

I agree with Mimi on this. You don't need to resort to physical violence to raise good kids. Naturally, if you buy your 8 year old everything she/he wants, the one time you done, they're going to throw a fit.

I probably wouldn't interfere in any of the 'scenarios' you mentioned, however I firmly believe that parents that resort to hitting their children are just too lazy to take the time to understand their kids.

And I definitely think taking off your belt and using it to discipline your child in a mall is more than a little excessive and I doubt the police would scold a person for trying to interfere with that.

i hate to see any child disciplined in public..my parents always used to say, "Wait until you get home" and that worked..

Now to answer your question...no i don't have the right to tell others how to raise their children, unless i suspect outright child-abuse, and then you can bet your ass i'll get involved..

Oh no...someone disagreed with your point of view! Lets start a whole new thread to call attention to that fact and bitch like they had no right to do so!

No, I don't have a right to tell someone else how to raise their child, any more than you have the right starting a thread stating what MY kids need in terms of physical punishment. If you have the right to state your view, so do I. Deal with it, or else don't post threads looking for discussion when all you really want is people to nod their heads in agreement with everything you say.

ticklishgiggle said:

I wouldn't tell a person how to raise their children out of the blue. If someone put the subject up for discussion (like in your "what children need" post) then yeah, I'm going to say what I want.

I agree with Mimi on this. You don't need to resort to physical violence to raise good kids. Naturally, if you buy your 8 year old everything she/he wants, the one time you done, they're going to throw a fit.

I probably wouldn't interfere in any of the 'scenarios' you mentioned, however I firmly believe that parents that resort to hitting their children are just too lazy to take the time to understand their kids.

And I definitely think taking off your belt and using it to discipline your child in a mall is more than a little excessive and I doubt the police would scold a person for trying to interfere with that.

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Sorry but the story happen, it was view on world news today, i believe either nbc or cbs.

as for a parent too lazy to understand their kids how much understanding to you need to have when you stay no and they continue to do it anyway.
this remind me of a story at a site i was working on. my boss had a 15 yo son, he was taller than her. she was saying that one day the boy did something that mad her pissed. she told him to go to his room, he looked at her and said "what are you going to do if i don't?". which made her sit and pause.

do you think that police over react when they use physical violence because you don't follow their command? they have the power to beat your child until they dies, and all they have to say is i was afraid for my life. if you dont' teach your child how to submit to you, what make you think they will submit to others.

but i do respect you views

Mimi said:

Oh no...someone disagreed with your point of view! Lets start a whole new thread to call attention to that fact and bitch like they had no right to do so!

No, I don't have a right to tell someone else how to raise their child, any more than you have the right starting a thread stating what MY kids need in terms of physical punishment. If you have the right to state your view, so do I. Deal with it, or else don't post threads looking for discussion when all you really want is people to nod their heads in agreement with everything you say.

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Dayum!


::applause::

If that story was true, the woman in the bunny outfit should have grabbed a trash can and smashed the woman in the head with it. At least then she'd earn the trip to lockup and the mother would be more wary of public displays of aggression...assuming she had enough gray matter left.

Can't tell you how many times I've come close to doing that in real life. Damn prison rape epidemic keeps me quiet.

I believe that if certain permission was given to citizens to physically brutalize other citizens for outlandishly belligerent and violent behavior, the assholes would be a little quieter in the open.

Of course, assholes being who they are, they'd likely carry weapons on them to keep interlopers at bay, but eventually someone would get shot, and the police would have to shoot the offender and then the number of assholes in society would drop substantially over time.

But it beats having to go through the effort of loading them on trains and shipping them off to camps for orderly disposal.

the wiz said:

Sorry but the story happen, it was view on world news today, i believe either nbc or cbs.

as for a parent too lazy to understand their kids how much understanding to you need to have when you stay no and they continue to do it anyway.
this remind me of a story at a site i was working on. my boss had a 15 yo son, he was taller than her. she was saying that one day the boy did something that mad her pissed. she told him to go to his room, he looked at her and said "what are you going to do if i don't?". which made her sit and pause.

do you think that police over react when they use physical violence because you don't follow their command? they have the power to beat your child until they dies, and all they have to say is i was afraid for my life. if you dont' teach your child how to submit to you, what make you think they will submit to others.

but i do respect you views

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I think it's illogical to say that the only way your children will respect you and listen to your directions is by using physical force.

Mimi said:

Oh no...someone disagreed with your point of view! Lets start a whole new thread to call attention to that fact and bitch like they had no right to do so!

No, I don't have a right to tell someone else how to raise their child, any more than you have the right starting a thread stating what MY kids need in terms of physical punishment. If you have the right to state your view, so do I. Deal with it, or else don't post threads looking for discussion when all you really want is people to nod their heads in agreement with everything you say.

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ticklishgiggle said:

I think it's illogical to say that the only way your children will respect you and listen to your directions is by using physical force.

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sorry i don't believe i said i disagree, also the first thread was not about what you wrote about , it was about a play that went all over the nation and became a movie. about a grandmother that still believe in the old ways.

you on the onther hand took it to an whole different level. so i did start this thread because it's more to your belief of how others should raise their kids.

what i believe or don't believe is just my views, just like yours, this is not to start a fight, it's to show that there is no one way to raise a child. what works for you may not work for me.

i myself was beaten with extention cords, and iron pans, beat with phones, and poles. however i still use it if my child thinks that he's can run my home.

it's really said that people have to take their views and force them on others. maybe because they believe that lack power, or control over their homes. so they feel that they can control others. it's soo said

AGAIN, NO DISRESPECT ATTENDED.

Nope. You posted a thread stating what kids today need, adding that if more of us beat our children we'd have fewer problems. I posted an opposing view to that statement. End of story.

Mimi said:

Nope. You posted a thread stating what kids today need, adding that if more of us beat our children we'd have fewer problems. I posted an opposing view to that statement. End of story.

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DID U LOOK AT THE LINK? ITS FROM MADEA family reunion, a play written by a black male which it was written as a comedy, if you wish i be more than happy to burn u a copy of it.

the wiz said:

what i believe or don't believe is just my views, just like yours, this is not to start a fight, it's to show that there is no one way to raise a child. what works for you may not work for me.

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Physically hitting your children is wrong. I'm sorry, that's not dealing with a situation. If anything, it's exacerbating it.

the wiz said:

i myself was beaten with extention cords, and iron pans, beat with phones, and poles. however i still use it if my child thinks that he's can run my home.

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Which explains why you would repeat the behavior. Cycle of violence, that whole thing.

the wiz said:

it's really said that people have to take their views and force them on others. maybe because they believe that lack power, or control over their homes. so they feel that they can control others. it's soo said

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Yeah, I agree. Definitely 'said.'

My personal take on the whole scenario of both threads is this. Parenting is hard work. there aren't any manuals or anything like that, all we have is our own personal experiences of growing up and how we were kept in line. i read in one of the threads that someone had something thrown at their head. That is messed up and i dont agree with that at all. but back to my point. if your own personal experience of discipline is really messed up, you are going to go the opposite way and make damn sure none of your kids have to go through what you went through as a kid, as long as its done well, the kid will be fine as was proven by Mimi i think. the same can be said for the old school approach. personally i got smacked as a kid regularly for being bad. it kept me on the straight and narrow, but i think the reason it works is the embarassment factor. i think combining both methods work best. e.g. my little cousin never said please or thank you growing up. so my auntie sewed "p" and "q" on her dress to remind/shame her into remembering. i like that method. i think all that parents need is the childs respect and for the child to know when they've done wrong. either approach works, but it has to be done right.

ticklishgiggle said:

Physically hitting your children is wrong. I'm sorry, that's not dealing with a situation. If anything, it's exacerbating it.



Which explains why you would repeat the behavior. Cycle of violence, that whole thing.



Yeah, I agree. Definitely 'said.'

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I love the repeat the cycle of violence bull, everyone has the ability to stop if they want to, it's up the that person. look at what you have now, a bunch of misbehaved kids running a crazy. killing, raping, stealing, because they don't fear anyone or anything. if violence is not the answer to some problems than lets get read of police, fbi, cia, ss, military. they all use guns and violence when needed. if you correctly it can be a good tool.

i enjoy this, but i will be gone from about a month, i made a promise to myself to not to get caught up in posting everyday on every little thread. thank for your views, Let just agree to disagree

I do respect your views and i see you next month or two.

the wiz said:

I love the repeat the cycle of violence bull, everyone has the ability to stop if they want to, it's up the that person. look at what you have now, a bunch of misbehaved kids running a crazy. killing, raping, stealing, because they don't fear anyone or anything. if violence is not the answer to some problems than lets get read of police, fbi, cia, ss, military. they all use guns and violence when needed. if you correctly it can be a good tool.

i enjoy this, but i will be gone from about a month, i made a promise to myself to not to get caught up in posting everyday on every little thread. thank for your views, Let just agree to disagree

I do respect your views and i see you next month or two.

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So you're going to tell me that if I don't hit my children, which can be considered a crime, I will more or less be adding to the crime rate in my city. That the only way children will learn obedience is by physical abuse. That the people who don't beat their children are the ones who end up raising murderers, rapists, etc?

You've really gone off the deep end with that one, my friend.

If anything, it's those that beat their children that instill the idea of violence in their brains, leading them to lives of crime.

It's discussions like this that reinforce for me why I never wanted kids. Great parents probably don't have to hit their kids because they've mastered the "mind fuck." Mine sure as hell did. I can only remember being slapped once for a particulary nasty comment coming from my mouth, and yet I lived in mortal fear of displeasing my parents.

Sad fact is, most parents aren't great. I'd go so far as to say most aren't even good. I sure as hell am not qualified to come up with a good answer to the problem of ill behaved little maniacs running rampant in the mall. I avoid the mall, that's all.

lk70 said:

It's discussions like this that reinforce for me why I never wanted kids. Great parents probably don't have to hit their kids because they've mastered the "mind fuck." ... I avoid the mall, that's all.

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I totally know where you're comin' from, but I swear it doesn't take mind fucking to have nice, well-behaved kids. Several here have met my little ones and adore them, and they know I never lay a hand on them discipline-wise. And I've been in the childcare biz since I was 15, I *know* you don't have to hurt children to get them to respect and obey you. As corny as it sounds, seeing disappointment in my eyes or hearing it in my voice is WAY worse to my children than anything I could do to hurt their bodies.

It does take work and vigilance from day one, making sure that consequences are swift and fierce but non-violent and fair and age-appropriate. It takes a LOT of patience and repetition (parents that hit tend to be kinda short on these) and the common sense to know which battles are important and which aren't. And it takes dedication to helping the next generation use their minds instead of their fists, a concept lost on some folks.

What kills me is how many people I know that insist kids that aren't physically punished will turn out to be horrible and dangerous and rude menaces to society. Meanwhile, every kid I grew up with in Brooklyn that ended up dead or in jail due to lives of crime ALL had their *sses beaten with cords and belts and such, while the kids that had non-whipping parents are now professionals and living happy lives. And I think of the rappers and other successful folks who grew up in my old neighborhood or places like it, who run around shooting each other despite all kinds of money and reasons to be happy. It makes one think.

Bella

No, I don't have the right to tell someone else how to raise their children. I do have the right to tell them that they or their children are being disruptive or disturbing, however. It's up to them to accept that information and use it appropriately.

If someone's screaming child is disrupting a movie, library, or restaurant, then I wouldn't hesitate to ask the management to have the parents do something about it. If the management couldn't or wouldn't, then I would approach the parents myself. However I wouldn't tell them HOW to handle their child, merely inform them that their child's behavior was a problem.

As for corporal punishment, again I would say that this is a matter for the parents to decide. If I thought that a specific incident crossed the fuzzy line between the parents' private business and criminal abuse (bearing in mind that my own preferences don't define what is and is not legal), then the thing to do would be to contact the authorities and ask them to look into the matter.

Like it or not, some kids do need to be spanked.

And like it or not, some parents are such morons that they do need to be told how to raise their kids.

That's all there is to it. There's no grey areas. When a parent is so stupid they let their 12 year olds smoke, drink, do drugs, and have sex, when they let their kids curse, run in traffic, or steal, then claim they can't do anything about it - well, they need to be told. Some people need a wake up call.

I haven't been in Ohio long enough to know it's laws but in Washington State...

RCW 26.44.015
Limitations of chapter. (Effective until January 1, 2007.)

(1) This chapter shall not be construed to authorize interference with child-raising practices, including reasonable parental discipline, which are not injurious to the child's health, welfare, and safety.

(2) Nothing in this chapter may be used to prohibit the reasonable use of corporal punishment as a means of discipline.

(3) No parent or guardian may be deemed abusive or neglectful solely by reason of the parent's or child's blindness, deafness, developmental disability, or other handicap.

RCW 9A.16.100
Use of force on children — Policy — Actions presumed unreasonable.

It is the policy of this state to protect children from assault and abuse and to encourage parents, teachers, and their authorized agents to use methods of correction and restraint of children that are not dangerous to the children. However, the physical discipline of a child is not unlawful when it is reasonable and moderate and is inflicted by a parent, teacher, or guardian for purposes of restraining or correcting the child. Any use of force on a child by any other person is unlawful unless it is reasonable and moderate and is authorized in advance by the child's parent or guardian for purposes of restraining or correcting the child.

The following actions are presumed unreasonable when used to correct or restrain a child: (1) Throwing, kicking, burning, or cutting a child; (2) striking a child with a closed fist; (3) shaking a child under age three; (4) interfering with a child's breathing; (5) threatening a child with a deadly weapon; or (6) doing any other act that is likely to cause and which does cause bodily harm greater than transient pain or minor temporary marks. The age, size, and condition of the child and the location of the injury shall be considered when determining whether the bodily harm is reasonable or moderate. This list is illustrative of unreasonable actions and is not intended to be exclusive.

IMHO...
I think that if corporal punishment is needed... then it should be used. It seems like the problems with the violent actions done by children started right around the time that corporal punishment was phased out of our schools and mostly out of our homes. When I was growing up... it wasn't the threat of the cops... or the threat of being sent to the principals office that kept me from acting out... it was the fear that my mom would find out about what I did.
If all they did was set me in a corner... hell... that isn't punishment. I wouldn't have learned a damn thing except how to entertain myself until the time was up... and would have had no problems whatsoever on going back out and doing whatever it was again. Getting a good whuppin' with the belt on the other hand... now THAT was a great deterrent... I certainly didn't want THAT repeated all that often!
I'm all for spanking kids... not slapping them across the face... and not necessarily spanking them with a belt (I'd much prefer to see a parent use their hand)... and definitely restrict the spankings to the buttocks.
I agree with the guidelines set by law in Washington State as to the use of corporal punishment. It is reasonable and I feel it would be more effective than a lot of the methods applied today.
Oh... and with the kids swearing and cussing at the parents??? Washing their mouths out with soap still sounds good to me!

But to answer your question... no... I have no right to tell someone how to raise their child... that's their business... not mine.

Mz Chaos said:

When I was growing up... it wasn't the threat of the cops... or the threat of being sent to the principals office that kept me from acting out... it was the fear that my mom would find out about what I did.

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I couldn't agree more with this statement. Cops I could handle...what my dad might do to me later? THAT scared the hell out of me.

Kids today are wusses. They've been coddled and babied to the point where simple bullying drives them to pick up guns and open fire.

Not that I condone bullying (it steams me to no end)...but I recognize that kids will be kids, and kids need to learn how to handle it without resorting to deadly violence.

My father is a good, honest, spiritual man who loves God more than I can say, and he treated my brother and I like gold. Did he discipline us? You bet. And when I got out of line, he smacked me, too. It wasn't child abuse, it was discipline. And I think I'm a beter man because of it.

P.S. There's nothing more annoying than these smartass kids who mouth off to adults.

ticklishgiggle said:

I think it's illogical to say that the only way your children will respect you and listen to your directions is by using physical force.

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I think it's illogical to think that by using continuous verbal reinforcement that a child will listen to exactly what you say. Only until something they have (say even a meal) is threatened, do they truly begin to consider what they are doing. Beating the crap out of a kid is a last resort. To hear a story about a woman's son sassing her about what she will do if he doesn't go to his room is rediculous. You have two options. If he gets in her face, which it looks like he did, beat the hell out of him. I don't care. Kids need to learn some boundry, and unless they're willing to accept a beating, they'll keep going if you let them off. Now if it was just some talk, you could threaten any number of things: the car, the room (making him/her pay rent), car insurance. I say if your kid can make his own money to pay for his shit and talk shit to his own parents, he's old enough to support himself if he wants to be that way.

scorpionldr said:

I think it's illogical to think that by using continuous verbal reinforcement that a child will listen to exactly what you say. Only until something they have (say even a meal) is threatened, do they truly begin to consider what they are doing. Beating the crap out of a kid is a last resort. To hear a story about a woman's son sassing her about what she will do if he doesn't go to his room is rediculous. You have two options. If he gets in her face, which it looks like he did, beat the hell out of him. I don't care. Kids need to learn some boundry, and unless they're willing to accept a beating, they'll keep going if you let them off. Now if it was just some talk, you could threaten any number of things: the car, the room (making him/her pay rent), car insurance. I say if your kid can make his own money to pay for his shit and talk shit to his own parents, he's old enough to support himself if he wants to be that way.

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Note I said it's illogical to think that physical punishment is the ONLY way. There are many ways to dealing with children, but I just think parents don't want to take the time to find something, other than violence, that works for them. Building the relationship you have with your children solely on fear is not healthy, in my opinion.

Right then.

In random order:

The best parenting skill to learn, or at least the one people should use first, is either abstinence or birth control. Works like a charm. No disrespectful kids.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids, so I'm not fully qualified. However, I'm trained as a teacher and I have a BA in psychology, so I'm at least partially qualified. Take this with a grain of salt, but you don't need the whole shaker at least.

I think there are two problems here.
Many of the anti-spankers seem to be under the assumption that corporal punishment = abuse automatically.
Many of the pro-spankers seem to be under the assumptions that corporal punishment = discipline, and that lack of corporal punishment = no discipline.

I'll address both:
First, the notion that corporal punishment is abuse in and of itself. I can't agree with this. I don't feel a flat, open-hand spank across a buttocks (covered by jeans) is abuse.
HOWEVER, I'm not comfortable with it. I certainly think corporal punishment can lead to abuse, whether you mean it to or not. After all, sooner or later kids become immune to spankings. From there, the situation can only escalate. So, I'd say that while light spankings aren't abuse in and of itself, they're that first step down the road. There's a huge difference between no corporal punishment and corporal punishment. And that difference is much larger than, and more clearly marked, the difference between corporal punishment and abuse.

Now onto the physical punishment = discipline equation, or more accurately, lack of physical punishment = no discipline.
'Discipline' is a large umbrella term, of which corporal punishment is certainly a member. However, it's not the only area. Discipline is a variety of actions, and it's possible to administer excellent and fair discipline without using corporal punishment.
I disagree with much of what (was it Kis? Drew? TicklishLurker? Can't click 'back' without losing my post) said regarding the necessity of corporal punishment (as intelligently stated as it was), but I agree wholeheartedly that the single most important component of discipline is consistency. If there's no variability, there's no fun. If the punishment always happens for a specific behavior, there's no adventure or daring. (This part I can speak on with a fair amount of authority; I took a class on punishment/reinforcement. This holds true across a variety of situations).

As for corporal punishment not being abuse. It might not be, but it can be. Most non-corporal punishments aren't meted out in anger but after consideration (no laptop, go to your room, you're grounded, no telephone calls, no video games, etc). Most corporal punishment, however, happens in the spur of the moment, in anger--and in anger, it's easy to underestimate just how much force you're using.
Plus, being angry is a sign you'r elosing control of yourself.

I agree with whoever said that good discipline can occur without any corporal punishment whatsoever, and often does. I'll toss a nod to the corporal punishists, however: Children need to have at least a little fear for their parents. A raised voice, a yell, can work wonders. Well, maybe only because I'm easily intimidated, but still 😉.

Note also that I'm only in favor of parents disciplining their own children, with open-handed light slaps, on non-bruising, non injuring areas. And that's a very uncomfortable 'favor' at that. If I have a kid, no one touches the kid but me. If some other adult hits or spanks the kid, for any reason, the adult goes to the hospital . No questions asked, no warnings. That's not a realistic example, however.

A more realistic one is if I see a parent hitting their kid. If it's an open slap, and just one, I can accept it, though I'd likely walk away since I don't like seeing it. If it's closed-fist, or with ANY sort of an implement (belt, stick, whatever), I'd have to intervene. Preferably i'd talk to a security guard if there was one, but if not, I'd have to talk to the parent. Respectfully and non-confrotnationally.

If the parent keeps hitting the kid, I'd have to physically restrain them, because assault is going on and I am compelled by the good samaritan law to intervene.
If the parent swings at me in anger, they get a broken wrist or at least a good solid punch. They knew the consequences and chose to disobey me, and got what was coming to them. (Kinda sounds like what htey were saying to their kids--only this time, they're on the receiving end of the discipline instead of the dishing out.)

To summarize a REALLY long post:
Many minuses against corporal punishment, few pluses for it. Therefore, I'm largely against it.

Man, miss a week, miss a lot round here! Clearly, there's something I missed here in re: the posted question and another thread. Do I beleive in physical violence against kids? No, my father and his wife believed in raising kids that way. I never forgave them for it.

Do I have kids? No, I decided the people who raised me taught me everything in the book about how to do it the wrong way. I didn't have a clue how to do it right. The irony? I'm pretty much the only real adult I know who never did have kids (for example, my best friend alone has seven! They LIVE at my house practically.) That's just the start. All of my friends have kids ranging from infants to college students. I never "tell" my friends how to raise them, but they ask me anyway. My bizarre upbringing gave me insight into the mind of how a "disturbed" kid thinks. (A "talent" I never learned how to grow out of.) They come to me now with their challenges because they feel on some level, they're too close to the project to see things clearly. An outsider brings a fresh new perspective, one uncolored by that whole unconditional love thing, I come to the table without that.
Just a couple of thoughts from someone who never had the guts to take the toughest job in the world...

XOXO