18 year old kills 14 year old girlfriend's parents

[ViperGTS]

I know this is old news, but I havent seen it here yet so I thought I would post about it.

http://wb17.trb.com/news/wphl-111505-ludwig,0,7333857.story?coll=wphl-news-1

Discuss.

My $0.02 is that I drive around all the time, and I was immediately looking at every VW's plates for this son of a bitch. I realized that if I had found him before the police, I don't think there'd be anything left of the motherfucker byt he time they got there to arrest him.

 

[Mitchell]

This tragic event occurred in my town, Viper, as I'm sure all are aware. In fact, my best friend's parents live in the subdivision, Lititz, where this all happened. The case is all everyone is talking about here. It is a terrible tradegy. Personally, I hope they give the guy the death penalty. For a crime as brazen and callous as murdering two innocent people in cold blood, a death sentence for this guy, would, in my opinion, be an appropriate punishment to fit this awful crime.

Mitch

 

[ViperGTS]

Nah, give him to me. I've got better plans and it won't cost taxpayers a penny.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

Our local news covered it as well. They were saying last night that they were looking into whether the girlfriend/daughter might have been involved as well. Either way, it's a very traggic thing.

And....I'm with Viper. In cases like that, if my emotions took over, there'd be nothing left of the perp to arrest.

Ann

 

[ViperGTS]

I would have called the police first, to let them know I was in hot pursuit...but I swear, if I got him pulled over before the cops got there....

 

[Red Jester]

Wow.... that sucks.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

I would have called the police first, to let them know I was in hot pursuit...but I swear, if I got him pulled over before the cops got there....

Nah. Don't do that. Then, it shows premeditation and YOU go to jail. If they know nothing of it, you can claim self defense...or temporary insanity brought on by the horror of what he'd done....or whatever.

Ann

 

[DEV]

I would have called the police first, to let them know I was in hot pursuit...but I swear, if I got him pulled over before the cops got there....

I'm strongly against what you say here Viper. After all, the death penalty only lasts for two minutes...

 

[ViperGTS]

Right, and the suffering caused to that poor little girl by him murdering her parents lasts for how long?

 

[MrMacphisto]

This tragic event occurred in my town, Viper, as I'm sure all are aware. In fact, my best friend's parents live in the subdivision, Lititz, where this all happened. The case is all everyone is talking about here. It is a terrible tradegy. Personally, I hope they give the guy the death penalty. For a crime as brazen and callous as murdering two innocent people in cold blood, a death sentence for this guy, would, in my opinion, be an appropriate punishment to fit this awful crime.

Mitch

Don't you think life imprisonment without any parole is more fitting? I say this because you can imagine all the fun things his inmates would do to him for the rest of his miserable life. Trust me, the death penalty would actually be more merciful, which is why I'm against it.

 

[ViperGTS]

Right, but how many taxpayer's dollars will be spent on the fucker? All the money spent on that would be three times the standard of living in the US.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Wrong, Viper... Here's the weird thing about our justice system. It actually costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in jail for the rest of their life. I know that sounds impossible (and I first thought that as well), but lots of research has been done on this. Because of various things like bureaucracy, it actually costs more to execute someone, and besides, it usually takes several years of living on death row before the actual penalty is carried out. That's another reason why it costs so much.

 

[isabeau]

this is a hot topic in the courttv chat room where i sometimes hang. does anyone here think the girlfriend was in on it or not? and trying to blame home schooling for his problems bites the big one. i hate when they try to blame mitigating factors in someones past. god my childhood was ok but there were things that werent so great, but do i go out and make others pay for it? no. he must take the entire blame for his actions. god and did you see how many guns this guy had????/ like over fifty. god i am so for gun control it aint funny

isabeau

 

[ViperGTS]

You have numbers to back that up then?

 

[MrMacphisto]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7

Check out some of the links from that page. I know it's not the most unbiased source, but it's all over the internet from all manner of sources. It talks about how even the trials cost more (and that doesn't even guarantee a conviction). The general gist of it is that everything related to the death penalty is expensive because of the extra measures that must be taken to ensure the absolute accuracy of the verdict. There are also other factors to consider as well, like the fact that juries are usually reluctant to seek the death penalty because they realize how final it is. If they screw up, they stand a good chance of allowing the state to execute an innocent person.

In summary, you're not going to find a lot of sources that say things like: "the death penalty is cheaper than life imprisonment" or "the threat of the death penalty is a deterrent for murder." The only real pattern that has been found involving the death penalty and its effects on society are that death penalty states tend to have more murder and rape, so perhaps, the public's acceptance of the penalty is a reflection of more violent tendencies.

 

[amk714]

Thanks for the link, Mac. I agree with you about the death penalty. If there's a Hell, I hope David Ludwig is sent there after he dies. But at the risk of turning this into a P & R thread, here's two more links on why the death penalty isn't the best punishment for murderers and the like (the reasons are both practical as well as philosophical):

http://home.att.net/~resurgence/L-murderersalive.htm
http://home.att.net/~resurgence/L-murderersdeserve.htm

There are also other articles at that website about gun control, crime, and many other issues. To put it in Mac's words, it's not the most unbiased source, but the author backs up his points with sources, and makes his case using intellect and logic, instead of personal attacks and emotional pleas.

Again, I'm not saying David Ludwig isn't a miserable SOB. But that's why he should be made to suffer in prison for the rest of his life (and since he's only 18, it'll be a long and miserable stay) instead of getting a quick and painless lethal injection. And his fellow inmates will definitely put him in his place. 😀

 

[TKpervert]

Yep, this is rapidly becoming a P&R thread except that we're a tad more civilized here on Gen Dis. Sorta.

There's 300 million people in this country, stories like this should be no suprise.
What are the odds of 300 million people behaving to perfection every single day ?

Zip.

Does this guy deserve the death penalty if guilty ? Yep.

Would 'gun control' have prevented this ? Nope.

 

[ViperGTS]

Alright, fine. But, insteas of wasting how many hundred of thousands of dollars to execute him, spend $30 on a bus ticket and send his ass to me.

 

[isabeau]

Alright, fine. But, insteas of wasting how many hundred of thousands of dollars to execute him, spend $30 on a bus ticket and send his ass to me.

surely you wouldnt want to waste away in prison for killing a creep would you? which is exactly what would happen. your life is worth far more than that. i can understand your emotions, but let the law handle this. although i know that the law can suck when it comes to justice.

isabeau

 

[Volcom]

Wow, i wonder if you realise how hypocritical you all actually sound.
You are against murder, yet pro death penalty, so i suppose if the state murders someone then that makes it ok right?
Also Viper in particular expressed murderous views, should he then be executed if he carried those views out? Or should he be let off the hook, as he killed a suspected murderer. Thats right i said 'suspected', he hasn't been convicted yet, but of course that doesnt matter right? I mean he's been charged with a heinous crime therefore he must be guilty, and therfore worthy to be murdered.

Sounds a bit like a reactionary, mob mentality to be honest....
Any views?

 

[isabeau]

i never said i was for the death penalty, in fact i am against it. who are we to play God? makes us no better than the murderers. to me life in prison without the possibility of parole is a much worse fate than death. take timothy macveigh. he should never have been allowed to up his execution date that way. he should have been made to sit for the rest of his life in a small cell with pictures of his victims, especially the children, plastered on the walls.

isabeau

 

[ViperGTS]

Wow, i wonder if you realise how hypocritical you all actually sound.
You are against murder, yet pro death penalty, so i suppose if the state murders someone then that makes it ok right?
Also Viper in particular expressed murderous views, should he then be executed if he carried those views out? Or should he be let off the hook, as he killed a suspected murderer. Thats right i said 'suspected', he hasn't been convicted yet, but of course that doesnt matter right? I mean he's been charged with a heinous crime therefore he must be guilty, and therfore worthy to be murdered.

Sounds a bit like a reactionary, mob mentality to be honest....
Any views?

Alright, let me clear something up for you.

I am against the murder of innocent people. I am against causing such massive trauma for an innocent, 14 year old girl, that will be with her for the rest of her life. This fucker will be convicted. He shot her parents at point blank range. There's no question about it.

Secondly, according to your logic, every doctor in the US and every executioner who has injected or thrown the switch on someone pegged for the death penalty is wrong. That might be your opinion; you might not be for capitol punishment. So be it. But he doesn't deserve to live. I read in the paper that he's scared, anxious and confused, but the part they left out is that he's scared because he GOT CAUGHT, not because of what he did.

I'm angry, but I am not a killer. People say things they do not mean out of anger. I wouldn't ask them to send this kid to me, but I for damn sure would be happy to throw the switch when they convict him. Do you understand what I am trying to say now?

 

[jim66e]

Alright, let me clear something up for you.

I am against the murder of innocent people. I am against causing such massive trauma for an innocent, 14 year old girl, that will be with her for the rest of her life. This fucker will be convicted. He shot her parents at point blank range. There's no question about it.

Secondly, according to your logic, every doctor in the US and every executioner who has injected or thrown the switch on someone pegged for the death penalty is wrong. That might be your opinion; you might not be for capitol punishment. So be it. But he doesn't deserve to live. I read in the paper that he's scared, anxious and confused, but the part they left out is that he's scared because he GOT CAUGHT, not because of what he did.

I'm angry, but I am not a killer. People say things they do not mean out of anger. I wouldn't ask them to send this kid to me, but I for damn sure would be happy to throw the switch when they convict him. Do you understand what I am trying to say now?

I don't think your explanation made your statements any less scary. There is a difference between the justice system running its course and ending with an execution and vigilante mob justice.

How do you know what he is thinking? Thats he's scared due to capture, not what he khas done? Do you have telepathy? Imidiate angry and violent outbursts are not constructive to civilised society. Expressing sentiment similar to a lynch mob is frankly quite frightening.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Alright, fine. But, insteas of wasting how many hundred of thousands of dollars to execute him, spend $30 on a bus ticket and send his ass to me.

That, I can live with.

 

[Mitchell]

Macphisto, I understand your point, and it is a valid one. In some ways, although I as an honest citizen fear death greatly, and always have, if I was 18, and knew my whole life was over, the death penalty would be easier to go quickly, or more so than if given life in jail at that age, and be in peace.
I dont know why it is, but I have always been an advocate of the death penalty. I have always been of the view that having the guilty party be punished by death for the innocent party's death is in some way, justice.
Volcom, I see your point, and while it does have merit, I disagree. I dont see that being an advocate of the death penalty as punishment for convicted murderers is hypocritical or wrong. While I see the idea of letting the murderer suffer in jail, and the whole morality issue of being anti death penalty, I feel that when it comes to situations like this one, there should be no morality issue. If he did it, and is found guilty, he should pay with his life. Iam not at all religious, and I dont want to sound all righteous here, but doesnt the Bible say: "An Eye For An Eye". Even death penalty by hanging was used in the 19th century, and by electric chair in the early 20th century, for the murderers of Presidents Garfield and Mckinley.
For myself, Iam a death penalty advocate, for the reasons I stated above.

Mitch