Almost non-consensual

[JFA]

Pushing a lee too far is a recipe for disaster - no more lee.

R

 

[rhiannon]

Depends. I'm sure the Sadist and/or 'Ler in the equation will get a real kick out of it. And there are also plenty of women [[and men]] who fantasize about serious non-consensual tickling. I think it's also loosely tied into "rape play" or fantasies of rape involving tickling. There are many people who really get off on being absolutely taken down by surprise and forced to partake in something EVEN IF they don't want it happening at that time. It's a control thing on both ends. The 'lee with the genuine feeling of "loss of control" which is affecting them a lot heavier then in a consensual scene, and the 'Ler with the feeling of having all the control. It's a much different mind frame then while engaged in a pre-planned or known about interaction, even when both parties know each other. And it's a large fantasy for many of us out there, not just in the Tickling community.

Agreed, a lot of us have this FANTASY, but I don't think the big majority would actually enjoy the reality of this fantasy, and that foes for rape fantasies as well.

People who actually really enjoy it are few and far between.

 

[BellaRisa]

I know from reading other posts that non-consensual tickling is a touchy subject here in the forum. That sparked a question based on my own experiences.

For those who enjoy the fantasy of non-consensual tickling, is someone forced to endure tickling because of losing a bet or owing the tickler something even though they hate it as good?

I mean, technically they consent to being tickled or tied up or what have you, but beyond that initial consent you have for all intents and purposes a non-consenting ticklee.

Thoughts, from either the lee or ler community?

Don't let anyone here tell you that there's anything wrong with enjoying the kind of non-con you're describing. It's the closest you can get to consentual non-con and in reality it can be a lot of fun with the right 'lee 🙂 I freely admit that one of my fantasies is a certain friend of mine losing a bet to me and having to let me film her for BellaRisa, dressed just the way I like (and she HATES) in a lovely hogtie for a nice long afternoon of filming I'm not saying I'd want her to be traumatized and miserable, just...nicely vexed and a little wiser regarding my kink and what it can be 😉

Look, I'm one of the bigger naysayers around here when it comes to truly non-consensual tickling, but I'm also a 'ler and I won't pretend my sadistic streak doesn't exist 😈

 

[rhiannon]

I freely admit that one of my fantasies is a certain friend of mine losing a bet to me and having to let me film her for BellaRisa, dressed just the way I like (and she HATES) in a lovely hogtie for a nice long afternoon of filming I'm not saying I'd want her to be traumatized and miserable, just...nicely vexed and a little wiser regarding my kink and what it can be

So what if exactly that happened in reality though? That afterwards she actually IS traumatized and miserable?

 

[English]

I am kind of sadistic and not at the same time because I do like the non-con fantasy where the lee is begging me to stop etc but only if it is fantasy role play. I love it when it is very intense and the lee goes absolutely crazy but I wouldn't even consider doing this unless the lee had agreed to everything before we started and can use a safe word if it gets a bit too real for her. As far as loosing a bet goes, I don't think it would be right to make the bet with the looser thinking they were just going to get a quick tickle to make them giggle a little and the other launches a full attack at the last minute but if everything is agreed before hand and both parties know what they are in for if they loose then it is all part of the game.

 

[rhiannon]

but if everything is agreed before hand and both parties know what they are in for if they loose then it is all part of the game

But what if one party doesn't really know what they are in for because they have never really experienced intense tickling before?

 

[English]

But what if one party doesn't really know what they are in for because they have never really experienced intense tickling before?

Then they would be crazy to take the bet... I am ler 100% so I would never take a bet that involved getting tickled but if someone does than they would have to take the tickling.

 

[QueenMari]

I even understand a bet to be a bet but if someone really can't handle it you have to at least give them a rest or you can cause them to be traumatized or hurt them physically

 

[rhiannon]

Then they would be crazy to take the bet... I am ler 100% so I would never take a bet that involved getting tickled but if someone does than they would have to take the tickling.

Some people have problems estimating their own feelings and abilities. Everybody experienced tickling before, but hardly anybody for a long period of time - so how would they know if they can handle a long period of time? Some people even get more ticklish when they are tied.

It's like someone having to drink ten tequilas....they may have had five before, but you never know what happens after that, and if they throw up at number six, you better not give them number seven!

 

[English]

Some people have problems estimating their own feelings and abilities. Everybody experienced tickling before, but hardly anybody for a long period of time - so how would they know if they can handle a long period of time? Some people even get more ticklish when they are tied.

It's like someone having to drink ten tequilas....they may have had five before, but you never know what happens after that, and if they throw up at number six, you better not give them number seven!

Your example of the tequilas reminds me of when I made a bet with my pal over football where if my team lost I would have to down a pint of Guinness (hate the stuff) and I ended up loosing so I downed every last drop and felt pretty sick afterwards. I wished I never took the bet but I did so I had to do it. Someone who has only ever drank 5 tequilas would be silly to take a bet where they had to drink 10 when they lost. If someone who had never been tied and tickled took this bet and they were more ticklish than they thought they were then I would bet that they would wish they hadn't agreed to it in the first place.

 

[QueenMari]

They should have let you stop or you should have stopped.I am not sure of the size or anything but if you drink to much you can get alcohol poisoning which can kill you.Many bets,hazing and alcohol games have led to peoples' death.Keeping a bet is not worth hurting someone.I'm sorry it's just not.You need to be more gentle and compassionate with people then that.

 

[English]

They should have let you stop or you should have stopped.I am not sure of the size or anything but if you drink to much you can get alcohol poisoning which can kill you.Many bets,hazing and alcohol games have led to peoples' death.Keeping a bet is not worth hurting someone.I'm sorry it's just not.You need to be more gentle and compassionate with people then that.

Thanks for the concern QueenMari but even the people who are not from the UK would probably still have heard about our drinking culture. Its not everyone's idea of fun but we are famous for our drinking games and with the exception of the odd 1 or 2 people here and there, everyone in the UK, Europe and I am sure the US have been totally wasted at some point in their lives. As long as you are not in that state like every day or every week (as some people are) it won't do you any harm to get drunk once in a while. If done in moderation drinking games are nothing more than a bit of fun at a party or in the pub. I don't like the taste of Guinness but it didn't do me any harm. I know my limits and that is the important thing. I never get so out of it that I don't know what I am doing because that is when the problems can start. As far as the tickling bet goes the subject is hypothetical for me because I have never made a bet where I would get to tickle the looser. The sessions that I have done have always been controlled the lee always has a safe word so I would never tickle someone beyond their limits but I just think that you shouldn't take a bet if you can't afford to loose. I think I would be right in saying that the people who loose Millions of $ in one day in Vegas would love to go back in time and have a tickle or drinking bet instead. Cheers!

 

[rhiannon]

I just think that you shouldn't take a bet if you can't afford to loose

As I said: people tend to overstimate their abilities! You can't just stand there and say 'Tough shit, you agreed to the bet' if you see the loser of the bet is really in agony! You have a certain responsibility towards the people around you!

Right now a guy is in court who had organized the so-called "Zugspitze Race". They want to convict him because he didn't call off the race early enough when the weather changed and some people died and got hurt. Those people could have stopped running up that damn mountain, but they didn't, because they thought they would be able to make it.

 

[English]

As I said: people tend to overstimate their abilities! You can't just stand there and say 'Tough shit, you agreed to the bet' if you see the loser of the bet is really in agony! You have a certain responsibility towards the people around you!

Right now a guy is in court who had organized the so-called "Zugspitze Race". They want to convict him because he didn't call off the race early enough when the weather changed and some people died and got hurt. Those people could have stopped running up that damn mountain, but they didn't, because they thought they would be able to make it.

I have never heard of that race but it sounds tragic to say the least. I think comparing that to some tickling between friends is going way over the top rhiannon. I cant imagine why someone would want to seriously harm their friend. Tickling is supposed to make you laugh so if your friends would keep doing it when it is making you cry etc then you need to find new friends...

 

[gypsyhanna]

Even if you have the "tough shit" opinion, the bottom line is you're shooting yourself in the foot if you make the tickling a negative experience for them.

If I got someone to agree to that kind of bet (and I could), then I won (and I would lol), I would definitely make them take SOME tickling. However, my goal would be to use that time as a golden opportunity to make it enjoyable for them. Maybe even win their trust enough to get yourself a new 'lee to play with again sometime, which I can tell you right now is NOT likely to happen if you make it an unpleasant experience for them. It's stuff like that, that makes people so opposed to being tickled in the first place, just because it's our fetish doesn't mean they will automatically be converted out of overstimulation. Hardcore S&M fans probably differ, I don't even want to go there because I don't know firsthand.

All I know is that you have a way higher chance at getting to tickle more often if you associate it to a fun experience...especially if they were expecting you to be mean about it and you surprised them with your consideration of their feelings. That kind of thoughtfulness would make me more submissive than any amount of forced dominance would.

 

[Oddjob0226]

I've known non-fetishy people doing this. Lose in a game of cards..... get tickled. Part of the agreement. Go for it. "Life is risk, Mr. Conroy".

 

[rhiannon]

I have never heard of that race but it sounds tragic to say the least. I think comparing that to some tickling between friends is going way over the top rhiannon. I cant imagine why someone would want to seriously harm their friend. Tickling is supposed to make you laugh so if your friends would keep doing it when it is making you cry etc then you need to find new friends...

What I am trying to say here is that people OVERESTIMATE themselves. You can't say 'They shouldn't accept a bet like that if they can't take it', because they just may not know that they won't be able to. This extreme example was merely to show that people don't know what they can and can't do to themselves, and that their overestimation may even end with death!

@gypsyhanna: Very very well said!

 

[English]

What I am trying to say here is that people OVERESTIMATE themselves. You can't say 'They shouldn't accept a bet like that if they can't take it', because they just may not know that they won't be able to. This extreme example was merely to show that people don't know what they can and can't do to themselves, and that their overestimation may even end with death!

@gypsyhanna: Very very well said!

rhiannon I think you should come to sunny England. I bet that none of our discussions (in person) will last more than 12 hours 😀 If I loose then I will down another pint of Guinness and if I win, I get to tickle you and you will not be in any kind of trauma afterwards and you will most definitely live to tell the tale 😀

 

[rhiannon]

What if I want to be tickled when I win?

 

[English]

What if I want to be tickled when I win?

Wow, you drive a hard bargain girl... let me think... Oh ok have it your way

 

[rhiannon]

I've always wanted to visit London....

 

[Oddjob0226]

People can also go too far without intending too, or even knowing that they have gone to far until it is over.

And people can underestimate themselves, too. I have had friends who would never consider being tickled willfully because it scared them too much. But approched the right way, and finding out for themselves that, when done correctly,the release it brings can out weight the panicky discomfort (THAT is still there, no way around it) they now want to go exploring further. A little almost non-consent tickling brought them into a bigger world of the joys their bodies and minds are capable of experiencing.

So again, an even playing field. That is the dance we dance on this plane of exsistance.

 

[rhiannon]

And people can underestimate themselves, too. I have had friends who would never consider being tickled willfully because it scared them too much.

It used to be the same way with me. But that's what safewords are for. The lee, especially if they have never experienced something like that before, should always be the one who decides when enough is enough!

 

[English]

I've always wanted to visit London....

Cool, I hope we can sort that out!

 

[English]

It used to be the same way with me. But that's what safewords are for. The lee, especially if they have never experienced something like that before, should always be the one who decides when enough is enough!

No, the ler should. Joking! I agree with you.