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Another good reason to whack Saddam

Strelnikov

4th Level Red Feather
Joined
May 7, 2001
Messages
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Lurking In The Jayna Davis Files
By Frank J. Gaffney Jr.
Washington Times, November 19, 2002

On Sunday, the New York Times breathlessly reported on its front page (above the fold, no less) that, "The Bush administration has begun to monitor Iraqis in the United States in an effort to identify potential domestic terrorist threats posed by sympathizers of the Baghdad regime."

According to the Times, "A large number of government agencies are part of the new operation, including the Pentagon, the FBI, the Central Intelligence Agency, the immigration service, the State Department and the National Security Agency."

For those of us who have long been worried about the threat posed in this country by Iraqi intelligence operatives and their allies, it is heartening to hear an unnamed "senior government official" cited as saying: "This is the largest and most aggressive program like this we've ever had. We think we know who most of the bad guys are, but we are going to be very proactive here and not take any chances."

Unfortunately, it appears that at least some of the agencies charged with addressing the threat posed by Saddam's operatives and their sympathizers fail utterly to comprehend the challenge the targeted groups and individuals constitute. For example, the New York Times reports that "according to the CIA," there is no evidence Iraq has engaged in terrorist activity against the United States" since 1993, when Iraqi agents tried to assassinate former President George H.W. Bush in Kuwait.

This statement is deeply disturbing. It not only suggests a lack of appreciation of the present danger. It also evinces an obliviousness to the historical record that raises a question as to whether the existing intelligence and law enforcement agencies are up to the task at hand.

That record includes the impressive investigative research conducted by Jayna Davis, a former reporter with Oklahoma City's KFOR television station. Since the Murrah Building was destroyed in April 1995, Miss Davis has been tirelessly collecting, sifting and analyzing evidence ( including some 80 pages of affidavits from more than 20 eyewitnesses and 2,000 supporting documents) of precisely the sort that the CIA says does not exist. Among Miss. Davis' more telling discoveries are the following:

• While Timothy McVeigh, the man executed for his role in the bombing, was widely portrayed as no more than a disgruntled Army veteran, he expressed to friends and at least once publicly (on "60 Minutes") his sympathy for Middle Eastern peoples he felt were victimized by American foreign policy. Shortly after McVeigh's arrest, one of his acquaintances from the military told ABC's "Prime Time Live" that "Tim always wanted to become a mercenary" preferably for a Mideast country because they "paid the best."

On March 3, 1995, the House of Representatives' Terrorism Task Force issued a warning that Mideast terrorists were planning attacks on the "heart of the U.S.," identifying 12 cities as potential targets, including Oklahoma City. It reported that the terrorists had recruited two "lily whites" - individuals with no criminal history or obvious connections to the perpetrating organization - to carry out the bombing of an American federal building.

• Six months prior to the bombing, an Oklahoma City-based Palestinian immigrant who had previously served time for a felony fraud conviction, hired a handful of former Iraqi soldiers to do maintenance work on some of the $4 million in rental property he owned. American coworkers reported their horror as these soldiers "expressed prideful excitement" at initial reports that Islamic extremists had taken credit for the Murrah bombing and "exuberantly pledged their allegiance to Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein."

Witnesses have put McVeigh and his convicted co-conspirator, Terry Nichols, in the company of these soldiers on one or more occasions.

• Importantly, Miss Davis has determined that one of these soldiers, Hussain Alhussaini, closely matches the composite picture of "John Doe 2" drawn on the basis of numerous eyewitnesses who claim to have seen such a heavy-set, dark-complexioned Middle Eastern man: in the Ryder truck used to destroy the Murrah Building minutes before the attack; putting diesel fuel - which, together with fertilizer, powered the explosion - into the vehicle that morning, (even though the truck's own engine used unleaded fuel); at the scene of the crime getting out of the truck seconds before it blew up; and/or fleeing the site in a brown Chevy pickup. Other witnesses had previously seen such a truck parked at the Palestinian's real estate offices before the attack.

• Miss Davis cites a former chief of human intelligence for the Defense Intelligence Agency as saying Mr. Alhussaini wears a military tattoo that suggests he had served in Saddam's trusted Republican Guard and worked in Unit 999, "an elite group based in Salman Pak southeast of Baghdad and tasked with clandestine operations at home and abroad."

Interestingly, after his time in Oklahoma City, Mr. Alhussaini found employment at Logan Airport in Boston - the takeoff point of three of the four aircraft hijacked on September 11.

• Nichols had ties to Philippine locales known to be frequented by Middle Eastern terrorists. According to one of the founders of the Filipino Abu Sayyaf terror organization, Edwin Angeles, Nichols even met in the early 1990s with Ramzi Youssef - the mastermind of the World Trade Center in 1993 and brains behind a scheme to blow up 12 U.S. airliners over the Pacific. (Iraq expert Dr. Laurie Mylroie has long contended that Youssef was an agent of Iraqi intelligence, implicating Saddam in the first attempt to take down the twin towers.)

This sampling does not begin to do justice to the work done by the intrepid Jayna Davis. Suffice it to say there is evidence of Iraqi involvement in at least one and perhaps all three of most deadly terrorist attacks in the United States to date. It may or may not prove dispositive, but it can no longer safely be ignored. (To his credit, Sen. Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania Republican, stunned by the difficulty Miss Davis has had getting government agencies to address her findings, has recently promised an investigation into the matter. Such an effort should be a case study as well for those who believe a new U.S. domestic intelligence agency, perhaps modeled after Britain's famed MI-5, is required.)

If the new Iraqi surveillance effort is indeed going to be "aggressive," it would do well to start with the Davis files - especially since she believes some of the Iraqi soldiers she has identified are still at large in Oklahoma City.



Why does this not surprise me, either?

Strelnikov
 
Okay,

So that count is:

Reasons to take out Saddam: 1,342,003

Reasons not to take out Saddam: 6

Well... what are we waiting for???

😎~FT
 
Also we should remember that Saddam was the only world leader who openly praised the 9-11 attacks ... that defectors reported (before 9-11) on a terrorist training camp in Iraq where airliner hijacking was taught ... that Czech intelligence officials observed a secret meeting between Iraqi intelligence and one of the hijackers a few months before ... and that Saddam has a personal vendetta against Bush Sr., and would want to destroy Bush Jr.'s presidency as a way to get to Senior. (Most of this is from various articles in Investor's Business Daily.)

Personally, I think we should have whacked Saddam IMMEDIATELY after 9-11, when the whole world would have supported it. The only mistake was in waiting so long. And I say this with a heavy heart, as a sincere pacifist.

Love and peace,
 
Thanks Val,

It is nice to hear that even the pacifists are backing the U.S. on this move. It is needed. If not, we wouldn't do it! But it is critical to the safety and health of the nations!
 
ForgottenTcklr said:
Thanks Val,

It is nice to hear that even the pacifists are backing the U.S. on this move. It is needed. If not, we wouldn't do it! But it is critical to the safety and health of the nations!

Yes, indeed ... I have attached a few relevant quotes from the Tao Te Ching, the holy book of Taoism written by the great pacifist Lao-Tzu about 2,500 years ago (Trans. DC Lau, Penguin, 1964):

When one is compelled to use them [weapons], it is best to do so without relish. There is no glory in victory, and to glorify it despite this is to exult in the killing of men. ... When great numbers of people are killed, one should weep over them with sorrow. When victorious in war, one should observe the rites of mourning. (31:72)

One who excels as a warrior does not appear formidable;
One who excels in fighting is never roused in anger (68:166)

Thus of two sides raising arms against each other, it is the one that is sorrow-stricken that wins. (69:169)

Love,
 
first of all everytime the state spies on its citizens its never in the interest of national security.

I dont suppose you want to take out bush for his role in the genocide in timor, which is absolutley beyond a doubt much more involved than hussien was in the attacks in nyc if he was involved at all.

of course you dont because you are right wing idiots with double standards who believe everything anyone in power shovels out to you because you dont have to think about it, it tells you what you want to here.

how about bushs connection to saddams crimes, again much more connected than saddam to bin ladens crimes, buts that fine with you? why because it was only iraqis being killed or because of your idiotic double standard? im really curious to know which one.

there is no moral justification for this war, its up to the iraqi people themselves to get rid of saddam. we have killed already 1 million of them, and crushed 2 major uprisings against saddam.
 
August, I never said that Bush was blameless, and I am certainly no right-wing war monger.

As far as I know, the genocide in Timor was a result of policies crafted by Henry Kissinger during the Nixon/Ford administrations. What did Bush, then only 30, have to do with it?

(Why am I wasting my time?)
 
maybe August means Bush Sr. Would he have had anything to do with Timor, or was that before his time? 😕

Biggles
 
What does East Timor have to do with the topic of this thread? august is doing what left wingers often do when they don't have an answer to an argument: he's trying to change the subject.

And where is there a double standard? Saddam is a sworn enemy of the US. He's also a tyrant and a genocidal murderer. The evidence of his involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing looks convincing to me. But even without it, I think we have plenty of excellent reasons to kill him and overthrow his regime.

There's no moral equivalency between the US govt and Saddam's regime. That ought to be obvious to anyone. If it isn't to you, I suggest that you find someplace that suits you better.

Strelnikov
 
first off saying "we" should have got saddam right after 9/11 means launching a massive unjust war engulfing the region in conflict, is grounds for being a war monger.

Bush(the first) was head of the cia during the genocide (his sons supports his policies)

timor has everything to do with it because we as left minded people use examples and make rational arguments by pointing out the double standards of the right.

you cant invade one nation and kill all of its people(for no reason) and say its cool. but than invade another country and act like your doing it to help people(not to mention bush supported saddam through his worse crimes) is a blatent horrid double standard which completley bankrupts your argument
 
50 Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden...

50 Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden...
50 Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden...

Fifty Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden If You're Invited To A Dinner Party At His Secret Afghan Lair, by Alan Meiss

Point out the lice in his beard to make him feel self-conscious.

Pause for a moment, listen carefully, and say, "Doesn't that sound a lot like a B-52?"

Ask him if he's looking forward to replacing Hitler as Satan's favorite chew toy in the lowest inferno of Hell.

Tell him all about your great vacation to Saudi Arabia, where you went absolutely everywhere and did everything, just stomped all over the place.

Use his satellite phone to call the time and weather line in Buenos Aires and leave it off the hook.

Tell him how much less you paid for your Kalashnikov rifle.

Now that you know the address of his secret cave hideout, fill out magazine subscription cards for him for the Wine Spectator and Penthouse. But do not, under any circumstances, send him Popular Mechanics.

Order him ten Domino's pizzas with extra ham topping.

Correct him when he ends a sentence with a preposition.

Ask whether the Taliban gets cable, because you haven't seen "Sex and the City" for weeks.

Yank the end of his turban really hard to make him spin around like a top.

Switch all the CD's in the jewel boxes in his CD collection, so that when he reaches for Michael Bolton, he'll actually get the Oak Ridge Boys.

Mine his bathroom.

Use your dinner fork for your salad, and, if questioned by your host, mutter something about "spots".

Leave business cards for the Israeli Mossad in his Rolodex.

Take pictures of all his wives and post them on www.amihotornot.com.

Ask him if he wears boxers or briefs. Check. Take pictures. Again, post these on www.amihotornot.com.

Give him a Hot Chicks of Palestine calendar.

Ask him if Paradise is different for each person, and whether in your own paradise you'll get to, "kick his ass every day for eternity."

Reset his VCR and leave it blinking 12:00.

Refer to him as "Osama-osama-fee-fi-fo-fama bin Laden."

Ask whether suicide bombers have to pay union dues.

Tell him it's lovely what he's done with his cave, but that it'd look much nicer covered with huge, smoking craters.

At dinner, imply that the Northern Alliance has much prettier place settings.

Claim you once saw him at a Hooter's in Muncie wearing a yarmulke.

Ask him if he wouldn't mind if you opened the door and shined your laser pointer on his forehead for a few minutes.

Tell him that this is the worst pajama party you've ever attended.
Ask for some pork rinds and a good brew to wash them down.

Mix up his Rubik's Cube.

Ask him if he provides his employees with a 401K plan.

Compliment him on all his poppies outside, but mention that a few day lilies would be a nice accent.

Run your finger along his credenza, and say, "tsk, tsk" if there's dust.

Ask whether the Taliban is hoping to be bombed ahead into the Stone Age, or perhaps the Iron Age if enough shell casings survive.

Explain that America is a land of freedom and opportunity, filled with people of every race, religion, and background, including millions of women strong enough to knock the crap out of him.

Claim that they serve much better falafel at the public executions in Sudan.

Ask him if he's pursuing the Lesser Jihad, the Greater Jihad, or the "Completely Whacked Out of his Freaking Gourd" Jihad.

Swirl your drink thoughtfully and mention, "Just think, in a few weeks you might fit in this glass!"

Check to see if Saddam is on his speed-dial list.

They have to wait a few years to see current television shows in Afghanistan, so give away the secret of who's having a baby on "Friends."

Warn him that you're "in a New York state of mind."

Mention that his wives look quite fetching in their burkas, and ask whether they've ever thought of modeling.

Ask him, "Say, where do you keep all those Stinger missiles?" just in case he'll be caught off guard and answer correctly.

Give him a "noogie" or a "wedgie." If there's actually still a flush toilet left in Afghanistan, give him a "swirlie".*

Ask to borrow his hedge trimmer and never give it back.

Play a game of Monopoly with him. Make him play the thimble. See if he charges interest. Claim that his properties are your "holy lands" and blow up his hotels.

Fish out the secret toy surprises in all his cereal boxes.
Offer to take him "clubbing" in Tel Aviv with your friends Saul and Ivan.

Ask him which Ninja Turtle is his favorite.

Give him your cell phone as a gift and ask him to leave it on for a few days so your friends can call and say hi.
When you leave, wave and say, "Shalom!"





*Some translational notes for non-Americans: a "noogie" is a painful head rub administered to the scalp while holding someone's head in an arm-lock; a "wedgie" involves grabbing the back of their underwear and hoisting it up until they squeal; a "swirlie" involves being dunked head-first in a running flush toilet. See what you missed by not attending school in the States? 😉
 
Re: 50 Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden...

luv2bt&tickled said:
50 Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden...
50 Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden...

Fifty Ways To Annoy Osama bin Laden If You're Invited To A Dinner Party At His Secret Afghan Lair, by Alan Meiss

Point out the lice in his beard to make him feel self-conscious.

Pause for a moment, listen carefully, and say, "Doesn't that sound a lot like a B-52?"

Ask him if he's looking forward to replacing Hitler as Satan's favorite chew toy in the lowest inferno of Hell.

Tell him all about your great vacation to Saudi Arabia, where you went absolutely everywhere and did everything, just stomped all over the place.

Use his satellite phone to call the time and weather line in Buenos Aires and leave it off the hook.

Tell him how much less you paid for your Kalashnikov rifle.

Now that you know the address of his secret cave hideout, fill out magazine subscription cards for him for the Wine Spectator and Penthouse. But do not, under any circumstances, send him Popular Mechanics.

Order him ten Domino's pizzas with extra ham topping.

Correct him when he ends a sentence with a preposition.

Ask whether the Taliban gets cable, because you haven't seen "Sex and the City" for weeks.

Yank the end of his turban really hard to make him spin around like a top.

Switch all the CD's in the jewel boxes in his CD collection, so that when he reaches for Michael Bolton, he'll actually get the Oak Ridge Boys.

Mine his bathroom.

Use your dinner fork for your salad, and, if questioned by your host, mutter something about "spots".

Leave business cards for the Israeli Mossad in his Rolodex.

Take pictures of all his wives and post them on www.amihotornot.com.

Ask him if he wears boxers or briefs. Check. Take pictures. Again, post these on www.amihotornot.com.

Give him a Hot Chicks of Palestine calendar.

Ask him if Paradise is different for each person, and whether in your own paradise you'll get to, "kick his ass every day for eternity."

Reset his VCR and leave it blinking 12:00.

Refer to him as "Osama-osama-fee-fi-fo-fama bin Laden."

Ask whether suicide bombers have to pay union dues.

Tell him it's lovely what he's done with his cave, but that it'd look much nicer covered with huge, smoking craters.

At dinner, imply that the Northern Alliance has much prettier place settings.

Claim you once saw him at a Hooter's in Muncie wearing a yarmulke.

Ask him if he wouldn't mind if you opened the door and shined your laser pointer on his forehead for a few minutes.

Tell him that this is the worst pajama party you've ever attended.
Ask for some pork rinds and a good brew to wash them down.

Mix up his Rubik's Cube.

Ask him if he provides his employees with a 401K plan.

Compliment him on all his poppies outside, but mention that a few day lilies would be a nice accent.

Run your finger along his credenza, and say, "tsk, tsk" if there's dust.

Ask whether the Taliban is hoping to be bombed ahead into the Stone Age, or perhaps the Iron Age if enough shell casings survive.

Explain that America is a land of freedom and opportunity, filled with people of every race, religion, and background, including millions of women strong enough to knock the crap out of him.

Claim that they serve much better falafel at the public executions in Sudan.

Ask him if he's pursuing the Lesser Jihad, the Greater Jihad, or the "Completely Whacked Out of his Freaking Gourd" Jihad.

Swirl your drink thoughtfully and mention, "Just think, in a few weeks you might fit in this glass!"

Check to see if Saddam is on his speed-dial list.

They have to wait a few years to see current television shows in Afghanistan, so give away the secret of who's having a baby on "Friends."

Warn him that you're "in a New York state of mind."

Mention that his wives look quite fetching in their burkas, and ask whether they've ever thought of modeling.

Ask him, "Say, where do you keep all those Stinger missiles?" just in case he'll be caught off guard and answer correctly.

Give him a "noogie" or a "wedgie." If there's actually still a flush toilet left in Afghanistan, give him a "swirlie".*

Ask to borrow his hedge trimmer and never give it back.

Play a game of Monopoly with him. Make him play the thimble. See if he charges interest. Claim that his properties are your "holy lands" and blow up his hotels.

Fish out the secret toy surprises in all his cereal boxes.
Offer to take him "clubbing" in Tel Aviv with your friends Saul and Ivan.

Ask him which Ninja Turtle is his favorite.

Give him your cell phone as a gift and ask him to leave it on for a few days so your friends can call and say hi.
When you leave, wave and say, "Shalom!"





Tracy, these are so damn funny. Most all your stuff is a hoot! Thanks, I needed a good laugh! 😀
 
Every time august posts in depth,he shows more of the far leftist hypocrisy.

Using examples and making rational arguments? Your ideology is so twisted that you wouldn't know what rational was if it was shoved up your ass and twisted.

You point out how Iraqis will be endangered by an attack and condemn it,but ignore the same actions from leftist governments....the Soviet invasions of Hungary,Czechoslovakia,Afghanistan, and their annexations of Lithuania,Latvia,and Estonia come to mind,as well as China's annexation of Tibet, North Korea's attempts to take over South Korea,North Vietnam's takeover of the south,etc etc. I guess these were all in the best interest of the citizens,even though so many of them fled. It's too bad more couldn't flee Pol Pot.

Concerning the state spying on its citizens,explain why surveillance on possible terrorists in the US is worse than the totalitarian approaches used by leftist governments.On second thought,don't bother: more than likely,we'll get more of the same hypocritical claptrap you've been dumping out already.

Your statement concerning right wingers believing everything that those in power shovel out is further proof of your retarded view of rationality. If you have been paying any attention,you would have seen plenty of discussion and argument,even though it's not even arguable that Hussein has been pulling crap for close to a decade. And,before you start the "we made him" whining,we don't supply AK-47s, scuds,or rpgs....the Russians do.Wait,I apologize....they are leftists,so more hypocrisy is acceptable, and the US is the villain again.

I don't really care if we supported Hussein before.Politics change,as
do circumstances.It's part of the way the world runs,and leftist governments are far from being innocent bystanders.Hussein is a problem,and he has to be dealt with.

I'd just like to opine on part of the mentality being used here. It
wasn't even a month after 9/11/01 before august started this line about US foreign policy being to blame for 9/11. Nobody using rational thought would have been ignorant enough to sling that shit
in public at that point in time...check back in the history of general discussion to see what I mean. Rationality? More like hypocrisy and basic ignorance.

I do want to correct a past post of mine here. I had previously stated that I considered a healthy bowel movement better than august's opinion. I'll even settle for constipation instead. I'll have to,since my other ideas are only acceptable when practiced by his leftist regimes.
 
Wow

Wow august, you know about the genocide Bush was "involved" in? LOL. Yea, keep tellin' yourself that. This war IS going to happen, and there aint' s**t you liberals can do about it. So f**k off.
 
Actually there is PLENTY we liberals can do about it, and I doubt Bush will go through with it now. He just wanted this country in war fever so he could win the next election.
 
I think Saddam's got a set of crosshairs lined up between his eyes in his future. It might not happen right away but it will eventually and I for one couldn't be happier. I might even throw a party when they finally blow his brains out.
 
so lets get this straight, i call you out on your hypocracy, you ignore it, than laugh at the genocide in east timor (i guess its funny to right wing people). Than you make up a double standard that you say i have, with no accurate examples at all. So you are using my own argument that i won against you, against me. Is this the best you can do?

I never said anything about supporting china or soviet russia, you have to be kidding. Most revolutions crushed by the soviets were leftist revolutions anyway, starting with kronsdat, learn your history.

Again ill point out your double standard. we as leftist are against human rights violations everywhere and we do not lie about them. where as you have a double standard.
 
actually the us first invaded south vietnam after assinating their president with the help of the cia.

then you right wing war lovers went on to murder 3million people, and in doing so left the country of cambodia in ruins, another 600,000 would die of malnutrition out of the disater you created (for what?) every academic admits that it was because of this that pol pot was able to take power. Pol pot was not leftist, he was a military dictator, he as also very nationalistic, killing off many ethnic groups. (a key componet of leftish is internationalism) And after vietnam ivaded cambodia (one of the only humanitarian interventions in the century) to put a stop to the violence, it was the right wing who attacked vietnam and defended pol pots regimes(even supporting it) but you failed and the khymer rouge were kicked out of power and veitnam left back to their own country.
 
Middle of the road....

I'm fairly neutral on politics in general, but here's a public service:

Main Entry: hy·poc·ri·sy
Pronunciation: hi-'pä-kr&-sE also hI-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: Middle English ypocrisie, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrisis, from Greek hypokrisis act of playing a part on the stage, hypocrisy, from hypokrinesthai to answer, act on the stage, from hypo- + krinein to decide -- more at CERTAIN
Date: 13th century
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2 : an act or instance of hypocrisy

This word and variations gets slung around a lot, so at least spell the damn thing almost correctly.

Btw, this statement is fascinating:
"actually the us first invaded south vietnam after assinating their president with the help of the cia."

Did I miss a copy of Newsweek?
 
believing that would appear in newsweek is like believing it would appear on CNN. Its a fact that cia assasinated the president of south veitnam and then put in place a more puppet regimes so they could destroy the nation even further. and yes the US invaded south veitnam first.

for more facts read Rethinking Camalot by noam chomsky.

perhaps youd be so kind to post the definition of imperialism as well.

and shark to rip into your agument again(it never gets old) the US supported Hussien through his worst crimes, that is a fact no matter how hard to you try and rationalize it. AK 47s? the us didnt give him ak 47s they gave him anthrax and bocholism(sic) as well as other more deadly weapons. facts are facts. both administrations are evil and have no regard to freedom
 
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