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nessonite1
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Well done HB. K is right that appearances can be adjusted to better suit someone's tastes. Of course I don't mean that someone should be forced to change their looks just to become "good enough" but rather that if someone is in a happy and loving relationship that they may very well start taking better care of themselves and their inner happiness will be reflected in their outer appearance.
And since it's no secret that most men prefer smaller women a woman may also attempt to change her appearance to make her mate happy.
And since it's no secret that most men prefer smaller women a woman may also attempt to change her appearance to make her mate happy.
HOLLYWOODBROTHE said:
I guess if the person is falling for someone, then size or looks are immaterial here as they have obviously been attracted to some quality in the person that makes them feel this way.
I have very low self esteem about my looks and appearance and have been honestly been told by good friends male and female, that although I may not be a cover girl by a long long chalk, I have personality and wit that in turn makes me ooze sex appeal and in turn makes me more attractive than I realise. The most beautiful of people can have the ugliest personalities and vice versa. So no IMO looks and size dont matter or have to be there to feel attracted to someone.
Celtic_Emperor
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nessonite said:
Yeah, thats what I said in my (first) post about physical appearances being the gateway to how one carry's oneself and how stable a person they are (though no one had anything to say about it). You can't really say you love someone completely if you aren't concerned with their physical health if how much they weigh or how they live is unhealthy or unproductive. And if your lover doesn't care enough of your concern for them then they can't claim to love you completely either or to even love themself if they are essentially destroying themself right in front of you, little by little, and you and they are doing nothing to stop it. Just accepting it rather than building eachother up through positive reenforcement is a basardization of the relationship.
The whole idea is not in caring about their physical traits so much as their well-being physically. That wasn't the point I was making nor you are in posting this. While pleasant traits are great, good physical health and decent looks would be alot better.
Celtic_Emperor
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I'll repost it just in case:
"Its impossible for emotional connections to be made and saught after if theres no physical attraction or anything appealing about them to begin with (unless its a spiritual connection which draws you to them or them to you, though such attractions are not necessarily for relationship purposes, you may be fated to help someone and that feeling is a sign). People are not attracted to people whom they do not find attractive somehow. Whatever sparks your curiousity at first will almost always be a physical trait of some kind with the rest following afterwards. And this isn't a bad thing, its nature and its how it works.
Aside from the psychical, purely as a means to an ends in approaching someone and inquiring more about them, physical attractivenes is important to an extent. For example, someone who is overweight by choice and its not a glandular problem, thyroid disorder, etc. could imply they are weak-willed, lazy, irresponsible and wreckless with themselves and how they handle life what value they put into it and their priorities and can't commit to bettering themselves. And this could stem from a low-self esteem or bad thought patterns, mental blockage and any other negative quality they may have or how they live their life. Another example- someone who has bad acne/acne scars and, again, its not a problem they cannot help (or could have helped), like with the weight. Same is true for oral hygiene and indeed any form of self-care. Self-neglect and abandonment is a huge turn-off and a warning sign early on for you before you even approach the person or are approached by them. If you can't love you, why should anyone else?
If physical appearances reveal to you, quite obviously, that this person is not committed to keeping themself in shape or in good health or that they simply do not care then they are not as desirable physically AND emotionally because they appear beaten, broken, defeated or simply indifferent. Theres nothing desirable about that, save for the pity you may have for them. Sometimes relationships are started on such feelings and the people learn to love themselves through the love being shown to them. Its an uphill battle, but definitely worth it if you can help someone realize their own self-worth and make those qualities you liked from the beginning shine even more brightly.
In actuality, physical appearance can tell a tale about a person without a word being spoken. So it is indeed very important in many respects. Sometimes, though not always, what you see is what you get if its any display of how they live their life or would expect you to live yours with them.
However, I do agree that emotional connections, mutual compatibility and also spiritual connections are far more important than good looks, not that they are better qualities, but in that they are the elements of a relationship that will both keep it afloat, sustain it, make it livable and enjoyable, and it is the soul, the person not their body which ultimately makes the relationship what it it."
"Its impossible for emotional connections to be made and saught after if theres no physical attraction or anything appealing about them to begin with (unless its a spiritual connection which draws you to them or them to you, though such attractions are not necessarily for relationship purposes, you may be fated to help someone and that feeling is a sign). People are not attracted to people whom they do not find attractive somehow. Whatever sparks your curiousity at first will almost always be a physical trait of some kind with the rest following afterwards. And this isn't a bad thing, its nature and its how it works.
Aside from the psychical, purely as a means to an ends in approaching someone and inquiring more about them, physical attractivenes is important to an extent. For example, someone who is overweight by choice and its not a glandular problem, thyroid disorder, etc. could imply they are weak-willed, lazy, irresponsible and wreckless with themselves and how they handle life what value they put into it and their priorities and can't commit to bettering themselves. And this could stem from a low-self esteem or bad thought patterns, mental blockage and any other negative quality they may have or how they live their life. Another example- someone who has bad acne/acne scars and, again, its not a problem they cannot help (or could have helped), like with the weight. Same is true for oral hygiene and indeed any form of self-care. Self-neglect and abandonment is a huge turn-off and a warning sign early on for you before you even approach the person or are approached by them. If you can't love you, why should anyone else?
If physical appearances reveal to you, quite obviously, that this person is not committed to keeping themself in shape or in good health or that they simply do not care then they are not as desirable physically AND emotionally because they appear beaten, broken, defeated or simply indifferent. Theres nothing desirable about that, save for the pity you may have for them. Sometimes relationships are started on such feelings and the people learn to love themselves through the love being shown to them. Its an uphill battle, but definitely worth it if you can help someone realize their own self-worth and make those qualities you liked from the beginning shine even more brightly.
In actuality, physical appearance can tell a tale about a person without a word being spoken. So it is indeed very important in many respects. Sometimes, though not always, what you see is what you get if its any display of how they live their life or would expect you to live yours with them.
However, I do agree that emotional connections, mutual compatibility and also spiritual connections are far more important than good looks, not that they are better qualities, but in that they are the elements of a relationship that will both keep it afloat, sustain it, make it livable and enjoyable, and it is the soul, the person not their body which ultimately makes the relationship what it it."
AphroditeRabbit
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Well I could probably say a few things about this as I have a friend who is obsessed about it.
She has told me many times she sees hot babes with not-so-hot guys, but it's never the other way around. (I don't know if this is true, relay your own experience if you could.) She is very bitter about the male race in general and has expressed her desire to lose weight so she will be attractive to men. Then, when they ask her out, she can brutually turn them down like some have to her. It's a vicious cycle I suppose. I think if you were raised for it to mean a lot, then it will.
Other than any of that business, love shouldn't intersect with looks in a high manner because at some point in time we all get old and lose our luster. It's better to find someone you click with in personality so down the line things are frickin sweet. I find someone with a matching sense of humor is the most attractive to me regardless of looks. I truly can't date unless I know the person, and I am turned off from those who soley rely on looks. I'm also turned off by those in it for just the booty. So there you have it folks. If you don't wanna be with someone because you don't find them attractive, then do them a favor and don't pretend like looks don't matter to you if they do. Juuuuuust moooooove on.
She has told me many times she sees hot babes with not-so-hot guys, but it's never the other way around. (I don't know if this is true, relay your own experience if you could.) She is very bitter about the male race in general and has expressed her desire to lose weight so she will be attractive to men. Then, when they ask her out, she can brutually turn them down like some have to her. It's a vicious cycle I suppose. I think if you were raised for it to mean a lot, then it will.
Other than any of that business, love shouldn't intersect with looks in a high manner because at some point in time we all get old and lose our luster. It's better to find someone you click with in personality so down the line things are frickin sweet. I find someone with a matching sense of humor is the most attractive to me regardless of looks. I truly can't date unless I know the person, and I am turned off from those who soley rely on looks. I'm also turned off by those in it for just the booty. So there you have it folks. If you don't wanna be with someone because you don't find them attractive, then do them a favor and don't pretend like looks don't matter to you if they do. Juuuuuust moooooove on.
Celtic_Emperor
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Well said, AR.
Its also important to point out that how you view yourself will often determine what type of person you'll end up with or what type of person you will allow yourself to have whether you feel worthy or not. If relationships are truely based on compatibility then its no wonder that you'd end up with someone whose relatively like you. This is not necessarily a good thing. Because if you secretly hate yourself or are the victim of your own choices and negative cycles, then you are just as responsible for getting a degenerate in return, no offense, and have no room to complain. This thing called "settling" is often the product of such a relationship. You see yourself in someone else and you don't like it so you settle because you're too self-loathing to believe there is a better you and better off people (of mind body and soul) to be with.
Its when we can see the goodness in another person that we ourselves realize what more we're capable of. And if the person you are with is simply not generating any kind of goodness, they are just bringing you down with them.
Its also important to point out that how you view yourself will often determine what type of person you'll end up with or what type of person you will allow yourself to have whether you feel worthy or not. If relationships are truely based on compatibility then its no wonder that you'd end up with someone whose relatively like you. This is not necessarily a good thing. Because if you secretly hate yourself or are the victim of your own choices and negative cycles, then you are just as responsible for getting a degenerate in return, no offense, and have no room to complain. This thing called "settling" is often the product of such a relationship. You see yourself in someone else and you don't like it so you settle because you're too self-loathing to believe there is a better you and better off people (of mind body and soul) to be with.
Its when we can see the goodness in another person that we ourselves realize what more we're capable of. And if the person you are with is simply not generating any kind of goodness, they are just bringing you down with them.
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Kalamos
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AphroditeRabbit said:
I don't know how we can see this: are not-so-hot guys cool 'cause they can talk hot babes into dating them?
Or is it the other way around? Are hot babes smart enough to see through the outer ugly shell?
I guess men have a knack for parading beautiful women around, while women tend to flaunt the wealth, power and influence of their partners', rather than looks alone.
Traditional gender roles, I suppose.
A bit oldish too.
Men were expected to gather wealth, and young attractive women were one of the best "appliances" money could buy.
Women on the other hand weren't supposed to get rich and powerful without a man closeby, so they aimed for the next best thing: a suitably wealthy husband, however unsightly.
...
Dunno about present role models.
I don't really care - since I have my own character to play in life. 😉
But I am curious about newer trends.
Celtic_Emperor
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To simplify that stereotype which still exists today in some people, women want to have a man simply to prove that they can because their beauty is supposedly above par. Therefore looks tend to not matter as much, since they are just aiming to prove a point- that they can have any man they want (or so they think).
Thats the vanity of woman. She feels man is but a ring to wear.
Whereas men look upon station in life to validate their presense. The woman, while not necessary, is a sort of trophey to those other accomplishments.
That is the arrogance of man. He feels he has conquered everything.
The difference is that women use men directly as an object of posession for manipulative purposes, whereas a man uses a woman as a mommentary accessory to better his standing (ie- he uses her like a stepping stone until he no longer needs her).
Women tend to be more single-mindedly determined than men actually. Not thinking too far into the future, only what will display their dominance and control right now in the present. Whereas a man looks to horde his wealth or power well into the future. Both are a sign of immense personal insecurity. The man does not feel like a man if he is not in power or aqquiring it (and so he is a monger), and a woman does not feel like a woman if her sex appeal and desirability is not assured (and thus she is conniving and vindictive).
"Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is a play on the distances and differences between the sexes. Its foolishly ironic however, in that we're exactly the same. Its just a different face for it.
Its a constant game for moral superiority, and its all a bunch of tomfoolery.
EDIT:
And if you want to get caught up in that, then you're no better than the fools of old.
Thats the vanity of woman. She feels man is but a ring to wear.
Whereas men look upon station in life to validate their presense. The woman, while not necessary, is a sort of trophey to those other accomplishments.
That is the arrogance of man. He feels he has conquered everything.
The difference is that women use men directly as an object of posession for manipulative purposes, whereas a man uses a woman as a mommentary accessory to better his standing (ie- he uses her like a stepping stone until he no longer needs her).
Women tend to be more single-mindedly determined than men actually. Not thinking too far into the future, only what will display their dominance and control right now in the present. Whereas a man looks to horde his wealth or power well into the future. Both are a sign of immense personal insecurity. The man does not feel like a man if he is not in power or aqquiring it (and so he is a monger), and a woman does not feel like a woman if her sex appeal and desirability is not assured (and thus she is conniving and vindictive).
"Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is a play on the distances and differences between the sexes. Its foolishly ironic however, in that we're exactly the same. Its just a different face for it.
Its a constant game for moral superiority, and its all a bunch of tomfoolery.
EDIT:
And if you want to get caught up in that, then you're no better than the fools of old.
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blackmagicjack1
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Well too give my 2 cents, which will probably be an echo of everyone elses, appearance can be important though how a person carries themselves is just as important. These two things are what you notice when you first see a person, appearance being obvious, but confidence is a little more subtle, but it translates into how a person moves and acts around others. And yes confident women can be very sexy.
But after the initial attraction, I think it's all about personality, mostly humor, intelligence, intrigity and free-spiritedness (couldn't think of a better word). People who do not enjoy life are simply not attractive. Also physically attractive people are rather a dime a dozen, but someone you bond or relate with, now that's priceless as the credit card commercials would say. And as was pointed out by AR (and others I beleive) beauty is fleeting, if you have a mind to live your life with someone, you better hope you have more than you just find one another physically attractive. I also believe the more you love a person, the less you're going to care about appearance...it just won't simply matter in the long run.
That all said, it seems we as human beings have a habit of getting ourselves involved in a variety of relationships/ or not involved for the oddest reasons. Blinded by our own issues.
Enough said.
But after the initial attraction, I think it's all about personality, mostly humor, intelligence, intrigity and free-spiritedness (couldn't think of a better word). People who do not enjoy life are simply not attractive. Also physically attractive people are rather a dime a dozen, but someone you bond or relate with, now that's priceless as the credit card commercials would say. And as was pointed out by AR (and others I beleive) beauty is fleeting, if you have a mind to live your life with someone, you better hope you have more than you just find one another physically attractive. I also believe the more you love a person, the less you're going to care about appearance...it just won't simply matter in the long run.
That all said, it seems we as human beings have a habit of getting ourselves involved in a variety of relationships/ or not involved for the oddest reasons. Blinded by our own issues.
Enough said.
Dussicar
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You know, if this thread were to have surfaced a few months ago, I would have definately answered in a positive way.
I myself LOVE people for their inside qualities. Nothing pisses me off more than seeing someone talk primarily to only the attractive persons in any given crowd and, therefore, leave the unatractive ones "in the cold." Thereby, making them feel petty and worthless. It happens more times than I can count. Jesus christ!
I love the inner beauty of a good heart. I have fallen madly in love with girls in highschool that left my friends shaking their heads. I see a beauty inside people that very few others can. It IS what's on the inside that counts.
In answer to your question, HOLLYWOOD BROTHER...Can I see and fall in love with people for their inside qualities? Your goddam rights I can...But who here is gonna know, right? For all anybody knows, I'm just following the posting herd. Maybe I don't actually like people for their inside qualities. Maybe I like making fun of people. Maybe I'm a hate filled son of a bitch that likes picking on people at work or out in public. Maybe I don't have a nice word to say about anybody.
Several months have come and gone for me. Through this, I have learned one thing...People are shit.
All you see on the news is hatred and war. A shrinking middle class and growing upper class. T.V. shows programs aimed at telling impressionable youth who's parents are too busy getting some kind of marriage annulment to look gorgeous. That they won't be anything until they look like that fucking ***** paris hilton. With odds like this, who stands a chance?
You know, I can now understand(though I would NEVER do it myself) why some people go on killing sprees. I now, truly understand what the old goodbye cruel world suicide note means.
I hate being lonely, I hate feeling worthless, I hate every fucking thing about myself. And through all of this, I attempt to find a certain beauty in the world. But, I can't find it. There is not a damn thing in all of humanity to anchor myself with. NOT ONE!
All I can do is suround myself with as many good people that I can. I talk to those at work(I see them as an extended family) my friend and my family. Plus most of you guys. And one thing I absolutely adhere to, is: do your best to treat those who live around you with kindness, and respect. They have to live in this world too. Make it easy for them...Unless they get in your face first. Then, FUCK EM!
Oops. I guess this thread was about looks mattering. Well, I hope that I answered this question somewhere in this post.
I myself LOVE people for their inside qualities. Nothing pisses me off more than seeing someone talk primarily to only the attractive persons in any given crowd and, therefore, leave the unatractive ones "in the cold." Thereby, making them feel petty and worthless. It happens more times than I can count. Jesus christ!
I love the inner beauty of a good heart. I have fallen madly in love with girls in highschool that left my friends shaking their heads. I see a beauty inside people that very few others can. It IS what's on the inside that counts.
In answer to your question, HOLLYWOOD BROTHER...Can I see and fall in love with people for their inside qualities? Your goddam rights I can...But who here is gonna know, right? For all anybody knows, I'm just following the posting herd. Maybe I don't actually like people for their inside qualities. Maybe I like making fun of people. Maybe I'm a hate filled son of a bitch that likes picking on people at work or out in public. Maybe I don't have a nice word to say about anybody.
Several months have come and gone for me. Through this, I have learned one thing...People are shit.
All you see on the news is hatred and war. A shrinking middle class and growing upper class. T.V. shows programs aimed at telling impressionable youth who's parents are too busy getting some kind of marriage annulment to look gorgeous. That they won't be anything until they look like that fucking ***** paris hilton. With odds like this, who stands a chance?
You know, I can now understand(though I would NEVER do it myself) why some people go on killing sprees. I now, truly understand what the old goodbye cruel world suicide note means.
I hate being lonely, I hate feeling worthless, I hate every fucking thing about myself. And through all of this, I attempt to find a certain beauty in the world. But, I can't find it. There is not a damn thing in all of humanity to anchor myself with. NOT ONE!
All I can do is suround myself with as many good people that I can. I talk to those at work(I see them as an extended family) my friend and my family. Plus most of you guys. And one thing I absolutely adhere to, is: do your best to treat those who live around you with kindness, and respect. They have to live in this world too. Make it easy for them...Unless they get in your face first. Then, FUCK EM!
Oops. I guess this thread was about looks mattering. Well, I hope that I answered this question somewhere in this post.
Goodieluver
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Kalamos said:
Or is the girl attempting a holier than thou mentality where "Yeah i am so emotional, i dont care about looks, my bf is ugly but i love him for who he is"
Its almost like a seinfeld episode where george was dating a girl and she said "yeah well looks arent everything" and this bothered george to the point of breaking up with her because he couldnt be with someone who thought that
And theres the ever present gold digger philosophy\stereotype where girls dont care as long as there is money. This is seen in the anna nicole incident, but ofcorpse, it was true love for her, wasnt it.
This is exactly how I feel. Physical attraction, in my eyes, was meant for one purpose. Sex. Nothing else. In my mind, a relationship with someone, not including sex of course, is not built off of looks AT ALL. Not a BIT. And if thats the way you think, I'm sorry, but you're not a very good person. To have a relationship and love someone, it's about emotion, not humping their leg. Furthermore, I'll mirror what some other people have said and give it to you like this. Beauty is in the mind of the beholder. Plain and simple. Beauty for me is not appearence. And that's the way it works.
While at certain level you have to draw the line, such as rotting flesh, it's not about how people look.
I'm not going to sit here and lie, and tell all of you that I don't like the look of good looking people. That's not what I'm saying. Having a partner who is a good person is what I'm after. If they look good, great. If they don't so much? Fine, but they're a good person, and thats what I was after to begin with right? Someone nice to spend the rest of my life with. Looks are a bonus, not a needed thing.
Anyone else with me?
While at certain level you have to draw the line, such as rotting flesh, it's not about how people look.
I'm not going to sit here and lie, and tell all of you that I don't like the look of good looking people. That's not what I'm saying. Having a partner who is a good person is what I'm after. If they look good, great. If they don't so much? Fine, but they're a good person, and thats what I was after to begin with right? Someone nice to spend the rest of my life with. Looks are a bonus, not a needed thing.
Anyone else with me?
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AphroditeRabbit
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You!
AphroditeRabbit
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Kalamos...I think he winked at you -laughs-
Well Id have to say it can go either way with me. Ive had instinces where i knew somone as a friend and wasnt even attracted to them, but the more and hung around them things actually started changin. And also on the other hand looks are a major part of attraction because if I were walkin down the street and a saw a female for the first time, being that im not a mind reader her looks would be the basis of my initial attraction until i got to know her.
