Are safewords really necessary?

[DGF1976]

My girlfriends says next time she has me tied up, she's only going to stop if I say the Eagles rule and are the best team in Football. DOes that count as a safe word?

 

[drew70]

I grew up obsessed with tickling and would put myself in ticklish situations whenever possible. However throughout most of my adult life, I would never have considered submitting to immobilization to the point of being completely at the mercy of a tickler. As much as I loved being tickled, I could only take so much. What if they just didn't stop? That was a big fear for me.

The only thing that got me past that fear was the implimentation of a safeword. I would take as much tickling as I could bear, but I knew I had an out if I really needed one.

Now, having been strapped down and tickled by merciless ticklers such as Lee and Shygirl, I find myself interested in putting myself completely at their mercy, with no safeword, or no dictating of where to tickle. 😱

So in summary, I think the safeword thing is good for easing somebody like me into the tickle torture scene.

 

[lk70]

I agree with everybody.

 

[slacker2114]

Safewords are good for people who are inexperienced, i.e. don't yet know their/their partners limits. But if you have a trusting relationship, they really are not necessary. Here's an example...when tickling my ladyfriend, I know her reactions, the pitches of her laughter etc. If those "normal" things suddenly change to something I've never seen before, I would stop immediately. It really boils down to knowing your partner and using common sense. If you use those things together, then safewords become unnecessary.

Granted, like BorisandNatasha said, the safeword can be used as a way of getting the 'lee to admit to something they normally wouldn't say, like saying they're a tickletoy or somesuch. In that way, it can be fun, especially if you have a 'lee who doesn't WANT to admit something like that.

Basically, it's all in what people want. Some like it, some need it, some don't. Just use your own judgements with safewords, I say. And that's my $0.02 on the subject.

 

[4Pawz]

I think a lot of it has to do with the type of play or tickling people are doing. Some are into it for the power exchanges, others are not. I am not into playing power games, so my playing is either for fun or occasionally a form of foreplay. Some also play using the safeword as a goal; let's see who we can make tap out.

With that said, I don't play without a safeword. A safeword for me is just that, for my safety. I squirm and struggle enough where occasionally an injury does occur. Sometimes I have just had enough. I do agree the ler should be paying attention and watching for when a lee has had enough. But as you said, not everyone knows how to do that, and it doesn't necessarily mean they would stop at the safeword either. However, if anyone ever did that, when I finally got up, they would no longer have a face.

Trust is a huge issue with some people, myself included. I'm not trusting and if someone was to not pick up on my cues, or was to ignore them, I would either end up struggling so much that I would cause some severe injuries (I have yanked my arm right out of the socket before) or psychologically, my brain would say "that's enough" and shut down all feelings and I would pretty much go numb.

I don't want either of these things happening, so I have a safeword in place to either let someone know I have had enough, or to let them know I am hurt and need to stop. I've never had to use my safewords, and hope that my lers respect me enough that I will never have to.

It is an interesting question though. I can imagine lots of different responses like the ones already noted.

 

[milagros317]

My girlfriends says next time she has me tied up, she's only going to stop if I say the Eagles rule and are the best team in Football. DOes that count as a safe word?

Most certainly. That's a "contest" type of safeword. She wins the contest if she can make you so desperate for it to stop that you will say it. You win if you can hold out and not say it. Have fun! 😀

 

[TMF Jeff]

I suspect that my view on this is kinda different.

Everyone who plays sanely has something they can say to end the play. Whether it's "red", "I can't breathe!" or "arugula", if it's something a 'lee can say that immediately ends the play then it's a safeword/safephrase and we all know it. And is that necessary? Absolutely. Even people who dislike safewords listen to words that, well, keep the 'lee safe... 🙄 Bella

I think this in particular cuts to the heart of what I'm trying to ask...

Is what we do really "play" in the same sense that S&M games are "play?" or have we as a community latched onto the S&M model without really considering it fully? Do we have to live by the same rules as people who are doing far more dangerous things to each other?

 

[bttf4444]

I'm kinda curious. Why isn't the tickling fetish community fully embraced by the S&M community?

 

[TMF Jeff]

I'm kinda curious. Why isn't the tickling fetish community fully embraced by the S&M community?

That's a good question, but if you don't mind, let's save it for another thread and keep this one on track

 

[daddy]

My take...Stop means stop. Never used a safeword in my life. Any intelligent human knows when. Once a woman (lee) has volunteered her wrist to the cuff, she/he knows what is coming. Otherwise the control is lost and the ler - lee relationship means nothing.

peace out,
daddy

 

[wendynpeter]

Actually, what prompted the question was all the tickling footage that I've been digitizing for my clips4sale store. I recently edited some video from girls who later told me, or someone else, that they had been completely freaking out and that I had inadvertantly gone too far in tickling them. One girl in particular was mummified at the time, and I didn't have a lot of cues to go by, and I made her freak out and cry, which I hasten to add I didn't set out to do, and regret doing.

BUT!!!

What struck me in particular was that in every case, including the mummification, these girls ended the shoot smiling, claiming to have had a good time, and just fine in every way.

So the question I asked myself was "Would they have used a safeword if they had one?" And I answered myself, "Yes." Then I asked, "Did they need one?" And I was forced to answer, "No, clearly they did not."

Jeff, I see your point. But you are in a very different position than the average bear. There's a world of difference between what you do and who you are than the average 'ler in a dating situation. A woman whom you're working with may conclude that "all's well that ends well" much faster than a woman who's playing with me, for example. You have the advantage of your reputation, your business, your track record, and the model's desire to be successful. When I play with someone casually, it isn't a professional situation, there's no camera or crew documenting things in a way that provides a heightened sense of safety, and the bottom usually is apprehensive about being able to handle and/or enjoy the tickling part. In short, they more or less insist that there be some foolproof mechanism in place for them to bail immediately if things get too intense for them. I'm only too happy to oblige, because I know they will be fine in my hands (I've never lost one yet ;-) But especially when there's bondage -- my experience is that most bottoms need to have that ace in the hole in order to be able to relax enough to let go and enjoy things. Also, it's been my experience that after the first couple of times, while the safeword is still technically in place, it's never mentioned again. The trust is there, and we don't need it - in the moment. But it's still there. Know what I mean?

Also, it depends on what our definition of "need" is going to be. The woman in your example didn't need a safeword in the sense that she didn't die or anything as a result of your going too far with her. But you do say that you regret having made her freak out and cry. I think you're a really nice guy and that really did bother you. If she had been able to safeword, you wouldn't have gone too far with her. You'd have nothing to regret. The two of you wouldn't have had that bad experience together - fleeting though it was. Now in your situation, it may have been resolved in a sort of "that's show biz" kind of thing. But for the average 'ler, that probably would have been a much bigger deal - So there's that to consider as well...

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

Hmmm, what does it matter if a Lee gives a safeword to a Ler anyway? It's up to Lee to decide when enough is a enough. I am not quite understanding "the loss of control" factor. To me it states that a ler wants to own the situation. I'll tell you when enough is enough...not you..

What the hell?! Get off the power trip. Most yell stop, no., please don't as a reaction. So what good are those words. I say if it makes the Lee comfortable to have a safeword then have it. Just because I put a seat belt on before I drive doesn't mean I plan to ram into a pole. Don't decieve yourself. The lee is in control..its their body and they choose whether to have it violated or not. If a ler can't handle that..maybe they shouldn't be trusted.

 

[LeeAllure]

Tears?

I've tickled some people who cry, and appreciate that they
were able to do so, with someone who thinks that it's okay
to release that kind of emotion with another person.

People are far less likely to complain that someone orgasmed.
(I suppose someone MIGHT use a safeword to prevent that
sort of thing, but I highly doubt it)

Re: the comment above - the problem with some folks is that
they can't tell someone else no. And sometimes those folks who
are tickling them aren't aware enough to know when there is
a problem. The tickler really needs to know enough to be in
control.

Lee

 

[daddy]

The tickler really needs to know enough to be in
control. Lee

Exactly!

peace out,
daddy

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

Re: the comment above - the problem with some folks is that
they can't tell someone else no. And sometimes those folks who
are tickling them aren't aware enough to know when there is
a problem. The tickler really needs to know enough to be in
control.

Lee

That's my point. IF a ler is afraid to agree for a safeword because they fear it may be used. Then maybe they shouldn't be tickling anyone until they understand that it isn't all about "their fetish" but the lee as well. IF he/she doesn't like to be tickled until they cry..then that is their right. IF they do..then they will not use the safeword. Geez, give the lees some sort of intelligence and credit.

 

[theObsessed1]

My take...Stop means stop.

The only problem there is that some lees may want to be able to yell and hollar and beg the ler to stop but have them continue anyway. It's part of the fun.

I don't think it's an either/or situation at all. A good ler knows their lee and treats them accordingly. On the other hand, a good lee will let their ler know those factors that may push them over the edge and then leaves themself in their hands. Of course, this is assuming that you truly know one another and can trust one another.

I'd be curious to know how many of those who are against safewords (not just think it's optional, but are actually against them no matter what) ever lee themselves. It's very easy for a ler who doesn't switch to think that tickling is no big deal. If you haven't experienced it, you simply can't know. Also, every lee is different. Even with as much as I enjoy and want the sadistic torments that a good ler can dish out and love being pushed, it's also one of my greatest fears. I'm always wondering if I can really take that much or if the ler will really stop if I need them to...even when I have been fine in the past.

Hazel

 

[Dave2112]

I think a lot of it has to with (as has been said by many here) trust. To paraphrase an old Sam Kinison bit about wearing condoms, "If you don't trust the girl, why are you fucking the girl?" Same with bondage play.

I agree for the most part that in average day-to-day tickle play, a safe word isn't really neccesary. "But Dave," you say, "haven't you posted a thousand times about how safewords are a vital part of BDSM play?" Yes, I have, and I still feel that way about play at gatherings, with people you may just be partying with or in sessions where tickling isn't the only thing you're doing.

If you're in a relationship with someone or know them very well (girlfriend, boyfriend, fuckfriend), it's pretty safe to say that you're going to understand the differnce between "Oh, stop...oh, oh...stop..." and "SHIT! STOP! MY LEG'S CRAMPING!!"

There's not a lot more I can add to what people have already said regarding trust and the common sense ability to tell when someone is in real danger. If you're playing with someone and they start turning blue or some shit like that and you keep going because you didn't hear a safeword, you shouldn't be allowed to play in the first place, and should probably wind up in jail.

One of the reasons people like myself preach about safewords in places like this is because we have no idea of the functionality of those we're talking to or answering questions for. I, for one, do not want the responsibility of something going wrong and then hearing "But Dave said safewords were useless."

Now, there are circumstances where I still feel they are vital. One, of course, is if the safeword is part of your play. Making someone say thier safeword is a game we've all played to one extent or another. It's part of the control.

Also, if your play is more than just tickling or uses any kind of BDSM-level silencing techniques, ie; gags...you better have some sort of "safe signal" worked out. The old "I can tell if she's in trouble by her eyes" is bullshit. For instance, with one woman I dated years ago, we played with fairly heavy bondage and used nipple stimulation...clothespins. We had several different kinds of several different intensities. Some were tighter than others. We never knew which ones she was "ready for" when that part started. Seeing as how she was already gagged, hearing "MMNNPPHH!!!" when putting one on didn't really tell me a lot about whether she was just "feeling it" or meant "No! Not that one! It's too tight!" We had a signal worked out of three finger snaps if she really meant No. This worked for just about everything.

And one last words about giving a 'lee/Sub too much power....that's a line you always have to walk. Remember the first axiom of a D/S relationship, it's a relationship. No, you don't want to get into "topping from the bottom", but remember that your Sub has not been kidnapped or drugged or forced into anything. He/She has allowed you to do this, so they do have some level of power in the relationship to begin with.

All in all, I'm in agreement with what the general concensus seems to be. Have one if you wish, but use common sense. Of course, if you've just met I'd suggest using one anyway. Any 'lee/Sub who misuses thier safeword is going to find themselves with no one to play with anyway.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

All in all, I'm in agreement with what the general concensus seems to be. Have one if you wish, but use common sense. Of course, if you've just met I'd suggest using one anyway. Any 'lee/Sub who misuses thier safeword is going to find themselves with no one to play with anyway.

Very well said, I would say "misuse" is too strong of word. It implies again control. I would have to say "foolish." 😎

 

[ticklesenseless]

As a lee, I prefer not to play with safewords. The reason is that while I am being tickled, I prefer not to have the safeword on my mind. It detracts from the experience and removes the helplessness. I mean if you think you can trust your ler, you really don't need the safeword. If you can't trust your ler, then as many of have said, the safeword might not help. Of course, I have yet to have a lady ler push me to my limit and beyond.

That being said, I also won't let a lady bind me if I am not comfortable with her or if I sense that something is off. If you have concerns about your ler don't play.

I haven't been tickled in a long time and was speaking to a lady the other day who seemed like she might be interested in tickling me. She was very hot and who knows it could of been fun but there was something off about her so I didn't risk it. Even with a safeword, I don't think it would of been a smart move.

Using common sense and trusting your gut is more important than anything else when it comes to any form of adult play.

 

[MaxSpeer]

I have never used a safeword. For one thing, most of the girls that I have tickled, I was either dating or knew very well. They trusted me enough to know that if I saw that they were in some kind of peril, I would stop.

If you ask me, you gotta be f-ing crazy letting a complete stranger tie you up and do ANYTHING with you. If you don't know the 'ler enough to trust them, then you have no business letting them tie you up.

Also, as Jeff said, it's just tickling. It's not like if you let them have their way that you would have welts or broken teeth. The most serious tickling incident I ever witnessed was a few of my friends passing out. When they came to they looked at that event almost as if that was the orgasm of tickling.

If you're a 'ler and you are afraid you might go too heavy on a 'lee then you also have no business topping anyone. A good Dom/Top/'Ler (whatever you want to call them) knows their 'lee well enough that they can be trusted.

I agree. Safewords has been way over used and over emphasized.

Max

 

[wendynpeter]

Looks like everyone has their own take on this. I have my view because experience has shown me that willingness to follow the rules of safe play means more and better playmates. Maybe the better question is why NOT a safeword? Because a bottom might use it? That seems about the worst reason of all.

As for the "if she doesn't trust you already, she shouldn't be playing with you" argument -- Well, I don't know what to say about that except that there's a first time for bondage in every bdsm relationship. And just because she knows how you kiss doesn't mean she knows how you'd tickle when it came right down to it. She doesn't know whether you're going to hurt her or get carried away or whatever. Agreeing on a some signal that means "stop now" just makes sense.

For those saying that "my leg's cramping" is a good enough safe word in the case of leg cramps -- OK, I'll buy that. By the same token, "You're hurting me, you don't know what you're doing, stop right now" is a good enough safe word in the case of incompetance. But most bottoms would rather just say "red."

I guess maybe pragmatism carries the day. If you can refuse to respect safe words and still get all the playmates you want, then I guess you're good to go.

 

[TMF Jeff]

Looks like everyone has their own take on this. I have my view because experience has shown me that willingness to follow the rules of safe play means more and better playmates. Maybe the better question is why NOT a safeword? Because a bottom might use it? That seems about the worst reason of all.

As for the "if she doesn't trust you already, she shouldn't be playing with you" argument -- Well, I don't know what to say about that except that there's a first time for bondage in every bdsm relationship. And just because she knows how you kiss doesn't mean she knows how you'd tickle when it came right down to it. She doesn't know whether you're going to hurt her or get carried away or whatever. Agreeing on a some signal that means "stop now" just makes sense.

For those saying that "my leg's cramping" is a good enough safe word in the case of leg cramps -- OK, I'll buy that. By the same token, "You're hurting me, you don't know what you're doing, stop right now" is a good enough safe word in the case of incompetance. But most bottoms would rather just say "red."

At the end of the day, I guess maybe pragmatism carries the day. If you can refuse to respect safe words and still get all the playmates you want, then I guess you're good to go.

I hope it's clear that I'm not saying that anyone should "refuse to respect safewords." I'm just saying, to quote Max, "they're way overused and overemphasized."

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I have never used a safeword. For one thing, most of the girls that I have tickled, I was either dating or knew very well. They trusted me enough to know that if I saw that they were in some kind of peril, I would stop.

If you ask me, you gotta be f-ing crazy letting a complete stranger tie you up and do ANYTHING with you. If you don't know the 'ler enough to trust them, then you have no business letting them tie you up.

Also, as Jeff said, it's just tickling. It's not like if you let them have their way that you would have welts or broken teeth. The most serious tickling incident I ever witnessed was a few of my friends passing out. When they came to they looked at that event almost as if that was the orgasm of tickling.

If you're a 'ler and you are afraid you might go too heavy on a 'lee then you also have no business topping anyone. A good Dom/Top/'Ler (whatever you want to call them) knows their 'lee well enough that they can be trusted.

I agree. Safewords has been way over used and over emphasized.

Max

And someone who has excercised induced asthma might need to use their safeword more often. The fact that you would sit there and say safewords are overused is really very selfish and self-centered. You don't know what the LEE's medical or even tickling history is. Unless you are accepting resumes about their medical history before you are actually tickling them you have no idea of their history. Even the healthiest persons while being tickled can stop breathing or get short of breath. Now if they can't breath because they are laughing to hard how are they to say, "I can't breath" ??? One quick short word solves that problem. Or even better, sometimes when people laugh to hard their chest might tighten up, who is to say they are or are not in pain or having an issue with their heart. Are all you Ler's doctors??? Do you have you PHD??? You know this is suppose to be about the safety of the Lee. It is not suppose to be about the Ler. The fact that you have a Lee isn't good enough, it has to be the safeword is overused. That is just plain selfish.

 

[gabrielle]

This of course leaves me with a completely different question that might be best suited for another thread... should you let someone put you in this kind of situation in which a safeword would be necessary???? Or is tickling so personal, private and sensitive that it is best left only in the hands of those who truly know us...

For me it is. I would never let anyone tie me down but someone I truly trust and know very well. I can't imagine playing with anyone but a boyfriend/husband.

 

[chicago]

Seeing as how part of the fun sometimes is to pretend you're not enjoying yourself when you are, saying "I can't breathe," may not be enough. The 'ler might just think the 'lee is playing along. Even something that should work like the word 'stop' sometimes doesn't.

And you'll never really know if you've given the right person the opportunity to tie you up until you try it.

I'm not a fan of not being able to breathe and I'm not a fan of being pissed off if a 'ler doesn't listen to me, so yeah, I think in most situations where heavy bondage is involved, safewords are a good idea.

But I think a good alternative to safewords could be time. You tell a person, "I'm going to tickle you for 20 minutes" or however long, no safewords, and if they agree to it, it might be more fun for the 'ler.

Another thing, some people aren't into tickling to the point of crying, pain, etc, and it can be painful after a prolonged period of time. That may be why safewords are good. To stop before they have to scream "Let me go" in a way so panicked that the 'ler finally gets it. Even experienced 'lers aren't mind readers and everyone reacts differently.

Maybe I'm just a wimp or something lol but being tickle-raped doesn't sound like fun.