Atlanta/Wisconsin killings...........

[red indian]

....when ARE you jack asses going to sort out your gun laws?

 

[Cav88]

You mean when do we get rid of them like you guys did? Never.

 

[Mimi]

Unfortunately, Red, the loudest voices in our country seem to believe the answer to our gun violence problem is just let EVERYONE have them so they can defend themselves when they come across a lunatic weilding one.

Mimi

 

[Knox The Hatter]

The issues and the answers really are too complex for most people to contemplate. It's far easier to argue about childish solutions.

 

[Krokus]

Unfortunately, Red, the loudest voices in our country seem to believe the answer to our gun violence problem is just let EVERYONE have them so they can defend themselves when they come across a lunatic weilding one.

Mimi

Perfectly Spoken, from a true genius. 😀 😉

 

[Cav88]

Looks like political correctness had something to do with it. Nothing about the gun laws.

A reporter asked the DA,

"Should a short female officer be transporting a 6 foot 200 pound violent criminal by herself?"

The Atlanta DA's response:

"Absolutely. A woman can do anything a man can do. Size doesnt matter, its heart that matters."

Yeah, lets have a petite female escorting a violent college football player single-handidly and then wonder why 3 people are dead.

 

[kis123]

Looks like political correctness had something to do with it. Nothing about the gun laws.

A reporter asked the DA,

"Should a short female officer be transporting a 6 foot 200 pound violent criminal by herself?"

The Atlanta DA's response:

"Absolutely. A woman can do anything a man can do. Size doesnt matter, its heart that matters."

Yeah, lets have a petite female escorting a violent college football player single-handidly and then wonder why 3 people are dead.

I've been thinking on this same premise ever since this horrible thing happened. I am all for equality between the sexes, but I'm also a realist. There's no way in hell that a tiny woman is going to be able to deal with this animal by herself. She's lucky to be alive. Let the female officers deal with the female prisoners, and the males,....etc.

Didn't anyone remember why that idiot was in court in the first place? For violence against his own girlfriend? If he's violent towards someone he claims to have loved, why wouldn't he be violent against a female stranger? Didn't the feds find him with a woman when they caught him? She probably would have been his next corpse after he raped her too.

As far as the gun laws are concerned, this started in a courthouse, not in someone's home or on the street. These people are paid to carry guns-it's part of their job. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with gun control laws at all. This has everything to do with PC and being stupid to think a small woman can physically handle a man twice her size.

 

[kis123]

The issues and the answers really are too complex for most people to contemplate. It's far easier to argue about childish solutions.

Ya' got that right!! It's easy to spit out drivel about how guns kill and we should get rid of them all. It's easy to argue about how the constitution protects private citizens hoarding arsenals in their basement or garage. Both schools of thought are extreme and something needs to bring the point to a realistic middle.

I personally hate guns! I never let my children play with them when they were younger. A gun is never something that anyone should be playing with.

I also realize we live in a sick and twisted world where people feel the need to protect themselves and their families. Also, people hunt and use guns for sporting events. It's unrealistic to ever think guns are going to be banned from private use. It's like prohibition-someone's going to have what they want regardless what the law dictates.

It's a complicated issue with no simple answers.

 

[Mimi]

Looks like political correctness had something to do with it. Nothing about the gun laws.

A reporter asked the DA,

"Should a short female officer be transporting a 6 foot 200 pound violent criminal by herself?"

The Atlanta DA's response:

"Absolutely. A woman can do anything a man can do. Size doesnt matter, its heart that matters."

Yeah, lets have a petite female escorting a violent college football player single-handidly and then wonder why 3 people are dead.

Don't get me wrong....I'm totally with you on that issue, Cav. The shootings in Atlanta were not a gun control problem. That was a case of foolish security issues. There is absolutely no excuse why she should have been escorting that prisoner alone. Hell, even a MAN should not have been escorting him alone. It should be a minimum two officer duty in every courthouse across the nation, standard practice.

Mimi

 

[red indian]

It has EVERYTHING to do with gun laws.....

......U.S. law allows your police officers to carry weapons as a matter of routine,and therefore giving the prisoner the chance to take the weapon from the officer. How can this have "nothing to do with gun control laws"? and are you telling me that the Wisconsin shootings were similarly "nothing to do with gun control laws"?

However, U.K. DOES have an increasing problem with gun crime. Nottingham City has had 21 murders involving guns in the last four years. Not quite up to U.S. standards I know! but it is getting worse, and these crimes are all involving illegally held weapons. How much worse would it be if guns were as freely available here as they are in the U.S.?

Now, before I start to sound too much like Micheal Moore (god help me!) its worth mentioning Switzerland. Switzerland actually has more weapons than it has people. Also,Swiss law dictates that every house hold MUST have at least one weapon. Think about that for cryin out loud.....you MUST have a gun!!! no ifs or buts.

Switzerland also has one of the lowest gun related crime rates on the planet......go figure.

 

[red indian]

Just in on Fox news.......

...a four year old child just shot his own brother with his mothers hand gun, taken from her handbag......nothing to do with gun control laws?

 

[Haltickling]

Re: It has EVERYTHING to do with gun laws.....

Also,Swiss law dictates that every house hold MUST have at least one weapon. Think about that for cryin out loud.....you MUST have a gun!!! no ifs or buts.

Sorry, red, that part of your statements on Switzerland is incorrect. Only members of the Swiss Army reserves MUST keep their gun at home. The purchase of firearms is allowed for most Swiss citizens, but no assault weapons. A special permit is needed to carry a gun, and that priviledge is handled rather restrictively.
(Source: Swiss Gun Law http://mypage.bluewin.ch/jagd.tw/gesetze/ges_ch_wg.pdf )

Anyway, the US situation is hardly comparable to the Swiss equivalent: Switzerland doesn't have a tenth of the USA's social problems. And they have a very different mentality.

 

[Cav88]

How big is immigration in switzerland hal?

 

[Cav88]

:edit:

 

[Haltickling]

Switzerland has very resticitve immigration laws, but there are a lot of foreign workers employed with a limited duration of stay. You can travel to Switzerland anytime, but not as an immigrant. In fact, you must prove to have a job if you want to live there.

Naturalization is even more difficult. The easiest way is to marry a Swiss citizen...

There's a lot of crime in Switzerland, but only a very small part is of the violent kind. The majority of Swiss criminals wears three-piece business suits...

 

[red indian]

OK Hal, I got that slightly wrong but.......

...I think its also true that all male childred when born in Switzerland are automatically given an army service number and have to serve time in the Swiss armed forces.....so thats quite a lot of army reservists in the making I would say!

 

[General Zod]

A question for everybody who thinks private ownership of guns should be illegal
How do you propose taking them away? I am serious about this Too many times before I have heard people say that private ownership of guns should be outlawed But yet they will never say how to do it
Say guns are taken away If that happens then maybe cars and trucks should be outlawed Just think of how many lives would be saved each year

 

[Cav88]

Not to mention there are a lot of hardened 2nd amendment defenders who won't give up there guns. Hate to know what it will to do this country if one of the 10 commandments has been destroyed.

 

[KoocheeKoo]

....when ARE you jack asses going to sort out your gun laws?

Friend, I live just outside Atlanta....and gun laws wouldn't have stopped Brian Nichols rampage. He overpowered a female deputy and used HER gun to murder a judge, court reporter, and veteran deputy sheriff inside the courthouse...then later shot and killed a veteran U.S. Customs agent.

The blame on this murder spree lies solely on whomever in Fulton County law enforcement that allowed a 6'1-210 lb male prisoner be escorted by a 110 lb female deputy alone...and with the prisoner not shackled and handcuffed.
That lack of good sense resulted in four people losing their lives.

It would NEVER happen in the county I live in. Two of my cousins are lieutenants with the local sheriff department, so I know. To begin with, all male prisoners are escorted to/ from courtrooms by two male deputies.
Douglas County sheriff deputies and courthouse bailiffs also utilize special holsters which prevent prisoners or anyone else from disarming them easily....as was the case in Atlanta Friday morning.

The reason for the Atlanta courthouse massacre on Friday morning was blatant incompetency....something both Atlanta PD and Fulton County S/O are infamous for. It's happened before; escapes, violent prisoners being released by mistake, etc; sadly this time it cost the lives of four innocent people. 🙁

 

[MrMacphisto]

Looks like political correctness had something to do with it. Nothing about the gun laws.

A reporter asked the DA,

"Should a short female officer be transporting a 6 foot 200 pound violent criminal by herself?"

The Atlanta DA's response:

"Absolutely. A woman can do anything a man can do. Size doesnt matter, its heart that matters."

Yeah, lets have a petite female escorting a violent college football player single-handidly and then wonder why 3 people are dead.

Exactly... Political Correctness should never supercede common sense. Unfortunately, it almost always does.

As for guns, getting rid of them isn't the answer. Red, you may think that the lower violent crime rate in your country is evidence that a relative lack of guns among the general populace should imply the removal of guns here, but your logic is flawed. Canada has more guns per capita than America and they have lower violent crime rates than both the U.S. AND the U.K. The reasons for the violence in our culture are many. One of them has to do with disenfranchisement among certain minorities. Another has to do with widespread poverty in our country. There are many others, but the ease of obtaining a gun here is a privilege, not a reason for crime. If every non-felon, mentally stable, adult had a gun in this country and was properly trained with one, people would probably be better able to defend themselves. Granted, there would be an increase in accidental handgun deaths, but I'd rather have that problem than actual homicide increases.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Re: It has EVERYTHING to do with gun laws.....

......U.S. law allows your police officers to carry weapons as a matter of routine,and therefore giving the prisoner the chance to take the weapon from the officer. How can this have "nothing to do with gun control laws"? and are you telling me that the Wisconsin shootings were similarly "nothing to do with gun control laws"?

However, U.K. DOES have an increasing problem with gun crime. Nottingham City has had 21 murders involving guns in the last four years. Not quite up to U.S. standards I know! but it is getting worse, and these crimes are all involving illegally held weapons. How much worse would it be if guns were as freely available here as they are in the U.S.?

Now, before I start to sound too much like Micheal Moore (god help me!) its worth mentioning Switzerland. Switzerland actually has more weapons than it has people. Also,Swiss law dictates that every house hold MUST have at least one weapon. Think about that for cryin out loud.....you MUST have a gun!!! no ifs or buts.

Switzerland also has one of the lowest gun related crime rates on the planet......go figure.

In the case of Brian Nichols in Atlanta, he was able to do what he did because he was not handcuffed when he was brought into the courtroom. There is a law in most states where you cannot handcuff a defendant when they are brought to trial. The idea behind this is that if a jury sees the defendant in cuffs, they automatically view him/her as guilty. Personally, I think Nichols's history of violent behavior should have allowed that law to be overlooked in his case. This guy is obviously guilty as hell, and though I usually am against the death penalty, I hope this asshole fries.

You wanna know why the U.K. is seeing an increase in gun related deaths? It's because the criminals can get them, but law-abiding citizens can't. Your people would be better able to defend themselves if they had access to guns. Your situation would actually be better and safer with easier access to guns.

Switzerland is much like Canada, in that it has a low crime rate mostly due to a small population, low poverty, and very little cultural conflict.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Re: Just in on Fox news.......

...a four year old child just shot his own brother with his mothers hand gun, taken from her handbag......nothing to do with gun control laws?

I think that has more to do with natural selection. If a parent is stupid enough to put a gun in a place where a child can find it, and if the gun is loaded, doesn't have a gun lock, and/or is located near ammo, then yeah... it sounds like thinning that genetic stock isn't too much of a loss anyway....

 

[MrMacphisto]

A question for everybody who thinks private ownership of guns should be illegal
How do you propose taking them away? I am serious about this Too many times before I have heard people say that private ownership of guns should be outlawed But yet they will never say how to do it
Say guns are taken away If that happens then maybe cars and trucks should be outlawed Just think of how many lives would be saved each year

Good points... That's another thing... More people die in this country from car accidents than gun related deaths. Also, if you really think you can ban guns here at this point, try clearing out all the Walmarts in this country. You can buy shotguns in the biggest retail chain in the U.S., and you don't need a special permit for them (to my knowledge). You just have to be old enough: I think you have to be at least 16 or 18. Granted, I only know about NC's gun laws; there are probably many states with more restrictive gun laws.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Not to mention there are a lot of hardened 2nd amendment defenders who won't give up there guns. Hate to know what it will to do this country if one of the 10 commandments has been destroyed.

You have a good point there... The same people that are often the most adamant about guns are also the religious nutcase types. As far as the 10 commandments go, "Thou shalt not kill" has been ignored in this country ever since we killed off most of the Native Americans.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Re: Re: Atlanta/Wisconsin killings...........

Friend, I live just outside Atlanta....and gun laws wouldn't have stopped Brian Nichols rampage. He overpowered a female deputy and used HER gun to murder a judge, court reporter, and veteran deputy sheriff inside the courthouse...then later shot and killed a veteran U.S. Customs agent.

The blame on this murder spree lies solely on whomever in Fulton County law enforcement that allowed a 6'1-210 lb male prisoner be escorted by a 110 lb female deputy alone...and with the prisoner not shackled and handcuffed.
That lack of good sense resulted in four people losing their lives.

It would NEVER happen in the county I live in. Two of my cousins are lieutenants with the local sheriff department, so I know. To begin with, all male prisoners are escorted to/ from courtrooms by two male deputies.
Douglas County sheriff deputies and courthouse bailiffs also utilize special holsters which prevent prisoners or anyone else from disarming them easily....as was the case in Atlanta Friday morning.

The reason for the Atlanta courthouse massacre on Friday morning was blatant incompetency....something both Atlanta PD and Fulton County S/O are infamous for. It's happened before; escapes, violent prisoners being released by mistake, etc; sadly this time it cost the lives of four innocent people. 🙁

Amen to that...