Bastard and bitch

[Celtic_Emperor]

When I was in gradeschool, even in highschool using these words in a classroom settings by definition were shunned and some were even reprimanded for it.

Is it so wrong to use these words? They aren't foul in any way. Its only after they are used for slang that they become something more. Are parents and schools overreacting about the use of these words?

As long as the child is using them for the right reasons, should it matter? These words and others have become so alienated that its not funny. Now no one can be proper without someone raising an eyebrow.

"Yes, I purchased a bitch the other day. Mighty fine bitch she is."

No, now its like..

"Yes, I purchased a female dog. Mighty fine female dog she is."

Or they'll cut the 'female' part out to be safe. Safe from what?

Whats up people? What are we afraid of? The kids are going to learn the meaning of these words when used in slang anyway, so why not counter that by openly teaching them they are not bad words to begin with? Why are we limiting our children's vocabulary and using watered-down words?

Feel free to add words and phrases you feel are exagerated, overrated or have been banned or shunned in some way or another. For our international friends not in the U.S, feel free to add your countries outcast words or phrases, in your native language. But please do give us an english translation if possible.

 

[Haltickling]

We've got similar developments here in Germany, too. But that's how languages evolve through time.

One example: We've got the word "geil". Originally, it just meant rich-tasting or rich-smelling. My grand-parents used it in that meaning. Then, it got the meaning of "horny", during my parents' and my own generation. My kids use "geil" in the sense of "cool, great, groovy". While my parents were shocked when my kids used this words regularly, my grandmother couldn't understand why my parents were so angry about it (the kids actually used it at a family dinner). Four generations, three different meanings...

Another example: The word "dog" (apart from its animalic origin) is used as an insult in Germany. In my own region (Bavaria), it can also be said as an expression of admiration, depending on the tone and the context. This even leads to lawsuits between Bavarians and non-Bavarians!

Another example: "Fotze (sometimes spelled Votze)" is a rather vulgar German word for the female genitals, sometimes used as an insult towards a woman. Not so in Bavaria: Here it just means "mouth", or a slap in the face. We even use it in normal (non-insulting) slang expressions like in "dentist" (Fotznspangler=mouth plumber) or for a "mouth-organ" (Fotzhobl=mouth [carpenter's] plane). It had the same meaning in medieval German, but outside Bavaria, it has become a very rude expression.

 

[BigJim]

All sorts of words change their connotations and sometimes even their meanings over time.

Take the word "nigger" for example. Say it these days and even a white person is apt to smack you in the mouth. It's considered highly offensive and derogatory. During the seventeen and eighteen hundreds though it was purely descriptional. It was used by black people themselves (as opposed to the "nigga" of today that seems to be the hood equivalent of "homey", or "buddy"), slave owners, slaving abolitionists and politicians. Of course it's historical ramifications indicate the user usually thinks themselves superior to people of darker hue, which is why I assume the meaning changed over the decades.

 

[milagros317]

When I was in elementary school (1950's), the word "lousy" was considered offensive, and any student using it was sent to the principal's office. We were told that it could be used only in the literal sense, "infested with lice".

It's been decades since I heard anybody use it in the literal sense (as in "Don't pet that lousy dog, or you'll regret it.") I doubt the younger members here ever heard that meaning.

 

[the_Baron]

how about righteous? originally a term relating to the holiness of a person.

it has since been a hip slang between close friends to mean something more like: true; good; acceptable.

 

[MrMacphisto]

I agree that the nigger situation is strange....

I look at forbidden words the way that George Carlin does. They're just words, and if someone gets bent out of shape due to them, then they're basically a fucking idiot. You can probably see why I think the FCC is full of shit.

 

[ogre]

Thoughts on language at school

Hello,

Being a highschool teacher, I am obliged whether I like it or not, to demand a certain level of political correctness from my students. My classroom needs to be a place where my students feel safe enough venture out of their shells. I deal with some of the most difficult to serve kids there are and anything that may be construed or even misconstrued as a slight or insult cannot be accepted. If a term is accepted language on the street...so be it. I will likely use it myself but not in my room. My classroom is not the street and teaching kids that different social circumstances demand different levels of behaviour and languge is a good thing...like it or not...it's true. I would remove a student from my classroom for repeated use of inappropriate language. First as a rolemodel to my own students, second to keep it safe and third to help them practice for the workplace where harrassment charges and job loss can brought about by simple slips of the tongue and inappropriate language.

Just a thought.



Yours in Ogredom,

Ogre

 

[kis123]

bitch--female dog
bastard--illegitamate child (which I personally think should be thrown out of the dictionary)

Those are what the words mean folks. In today's society bitch has turned into--woman who doesn't act appropriately (subjective) or bastard (usually man who acts inappropriately also subjective).

If you're going to use the words according to their definitions, then I guess there's not a problem. It's when we use them inappropriately is when it becomes an issue with me.


As far as the term "nigger" or "nigga" is concerned, it is still derogotory and inflammatory and it doesn't matter who is using it. It is not a word we use in our home under any circumstances.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thank you everyone for your imput. Its much appriciated.

 

[Mitchell]

I think the main point is what is and is not appropriate in our society. In college, just about anything went. Professors would use the F curse left and right, and no one batted an eyebrow. Things that would get us suspended or in detention in high school went on every day in college. One time, a professor got so mad at us for not finishing an assignment, that he threw the whole class out, told us to go F ourselves, and gave us the middle finger! In camp they would wash our mouths out with soap if we used too many swear words! My parents used to curse a fair amount at each other when I was growing up, and so I learned some very bad words, even beyond F and the usual ones at a young age. I will curse if frustrated, but try not to use it at or about someone unless they really hurt me or make me furious. For those of you who know me and how horrible my father is, he is the only one who I refer to or use the worst words to or about, because he is such a rotten, miserable human being. I hope one day when I get married, that I will have a reasonable wife with whom I can work problems out with, who is a calm rational person, and willing to talk problems out instead of feeling it mandatory to curse and scream at each other. With my father, you cant talk to the man, he is so disturbed and inpenetrable, that even therapists we saw for family counseling would yell, scream, and curse at him. Now that he is out of my life, Iam trying to temper that, and I hope one day that whoever I marry will want to sort problems out rationally, instead of resorting to yelling and cursing.

Mitch

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Wow, those are pretty powerful extremes, that even a college professor would be this way. Thanks for the post.

 

[BigJim]

As far as the term "nigger" or "nigga" is concerned, it is still derogotory and inflammatory and it doesn't matter who is using it. It is not a word we use in our home under any circumstances.

Interesting point: I've only ever heard black people use the modern derivative. Personally I find it strange that such an insult would be used by the very people who it's aimed at. Any thoughts Kis?

 

[BigJim]

When I was in elementary school (1950's), the word "lousy" was considered offensive, and any student using it was sent to the principal's office. We were told that it could be used only in the literal sense, "infested with lice".

It's been decades since I heard anybody use it in the literal sense (as in "Don't pet that lousy dog, or you'll regret it.") I doubt the younger members here ever heard that meaning.

Heh heh. I've heard it, but then I was an Enid Blyton reader as a child.

 

[kis123]

Interesting point: I've only ever heard black people use the modern derivative. Personally I find it strange that such an insult would be used by the very people who it's aimed at. Any thoughts Kis?

I have yet to figure it out but it's been passed over generations and has just stuck. Some people have heard the word used so much in their homes that they're desensitized to it. To be exact, my children have been the first ones in my family to be taught that word is derogotory, dehumanizing, an unacceptable speak in my house.

I'm not one who really swears. I just think there are better ways of communication. My teenagers slip on occassion but are not really swearing types either. Must've been the way they were raised. I really have to be taken to a high level of anger before I swear. Usually by then, I've pretty much cleaned house and there is no one left to swear at!

 

[BigJim]

Okay Kis, I'm scared now!