Bill Cosby Mounting Sexual Assault Allegations.. Thoughts?

[Mitchell]

What are forum members thoughts about the mounting sexual assault allegations against Bill Cosby?

So far. at least.. three women have come forth with allegations of sexual misconduct against Dr Cosby.

Since these allegations have come forth, TV Land has pulled reruns of the Cosby Show... An NBC special featuring Cosby has been cancelled, and a new TV series starring Cosby has also been scrapped.

Reaction to this?

 

[cloudgazer2k]

I hope it's all crap. If these are legitimate accusations, I'll never look at Bill the same again. However, if the accusers end up recanting their stories, for whatever reasons, then they should be held accountable.

 

[SamuelKhan]

Innocent until proven guilty. I have just recently been listening to his old stand up bits, and now I'm afraid the allegations may have legs.

 

[Mitchell]

I just read that at Temple U in Philly, they still have Cosby on the Board of Trustees.

Speaking of Temple.

My late mother attended Temple, and was six months younger than Dr Cosby. She told me that she distinctly remembered seeing him visiting people in her dorm, and around campus, but said she didn't know him personally, except for maybe just exchanging a Hello. This was. in the late 1950s.

 

[Mitchell]

Until I heard about the current situation, I've always had great respect for Dr Cosby. He's a family man, married for a half a century.. He had one of the greatest TV shows in history, and portrayed the first successful educated African American on TV, as a medical Dr.

The old saying of "Where there's smoke, there's fire" is what concerns me. While it could just be people looking for publicity, and perhaps to get a monetary settlement from him, it could also very possibly be that the allegations against him are true, considering that it is more than one woman who claims this behavior by him.

 

[chicago]

Pretty sure it doesnt matter if he did it or not since most of the assaults seemed to have occurred 20 to 30 years ago.

 

[Amnesiac]

For years I've been joking that eventually, all celebrities will be ruined and have no reputation left and that the zenith would be something like the discovery of Bill Cosby being a serial killer or Tom Hanks running a heroin ring.

The funny thing about that is that it was never a punchline I wanted to hear because it ain't funny. And I hate being right sometimes.

With a celebrity as big as Cosby, I imagine that the requirements needed to take him down would have to be as big as this. Now that leads me to 2 conclusions: 1) he's guilty and that's all there is to it, or 2) he's probably innocent and the victims are recycling the same accusation hoping to reach critical mass and win lawsuits. A relative of mine was a judiciary and warned me about judging a criminal case without being present in the actual investigation and hearing the evidence from beginning to end.

So I'm not judging Bill Cosby, but I can only hope it's not true. Although, I suspect it may be.

In any event, this doesn't undermine the quality of his work. Sure, it completely obliterates his reputation, and the sacrosanct hearth he built in our collective hearts, but it doesn't divert from his talent. Roman Polanski is a pederast, but he still makes a fucking great movie; Mel Gibson is an anti-Semite, but he's still a talented director who used to be a talented actor.

So I will continue to listen to old and new Cosby stuff just as I watch the films of Polanski and Gibson because a persons' work may be personal, but it isn't the sum total of who they are. As long as I don't make the mistake of allowing their talent to color the reality of who they are as a person, I can have my cake and eat it too.

All we can do is wait and see what the investigations and ensuing trials conclude. Even then, we may not learn all we need to know, but we'll never again trust. It's just sad is all. Now Bill Cosby will be relegated to the position Michael Jackson does: a former Titan of Entertainment who will only remain so in the memories of those who experienced them in the time before their exposure turned them into a Monument of Scandal. When we're gone, that saccharine memory will be gone with it.

I suppose now is the time when we watch Tom Hanks and wait for the excavation of his basement.

 

[Mitchell]

Amn makes interesting points in his post.

I haven't watched any new Bill Cosby material in a long time..

Amn mentions Mel Gibson.

Gibson is a guy I personally despise. I haven't seen that much of his work, but I did love his movie "Ransom".


The Anti Semitic rant Gibson went on, made me sick. I want to make clear though that said feeling is NOT because I'm Jewish. I would still despise Gibson if he went on a racist rant against African Americans, because, I judge people by the famous line of the great Dr Martin Luther King, by the content of their character.

I'm very disappointed, and disturbed.. about the situation with Cosby. It doesn't matter to me whether he can be prosecuted or not.. If he did it, he did it.. My view of him would greatly change if it is true.

 

[Mitchell]

A large article on Bill Cosby's fall from grace is at

www.usatoday.com.

It's entitled. "Hollywood gives up on Bill Cosby"

 

[Mitchell]

Things seem to be getting worse for old Bill.

Yet another woman claims that Bill drugged and raped her in 1976 at the Las Vegas Hilton.

Article is at.

www.huffingtonpost.com

or

www.hollywoodreporter.com.

 

[Mitchell]

If any or all of these are true.. Cosby is finished. He shouldn't be hurting financially, as his net worth according to www.celebritynetworth.com is 400 million, unless he loses much of that in lawsuit settlements. He might just sit home and count his money for the rest of his life.

 

[chicago]

Can any of these women really file lawsuits if the attacks happened 20-30-40 years ago?

 

[Mitchell]

I don't know, Chicago. All I do know, is that several articles I've read about this.. said that Cosby has already paid out monetary settlements. As to whether there is a statue of limitations on the lawsuits.. I'm not a lawyer, so I really don't know.

 

[milagros317]

Just a thought (which maybe should be in the P&R Forum): There is another Bill C. about whom women who interacted with him 20 or 30+ years ago made rape allegations. Yet this second Bill C. remains quite popular and makes lots of money even today giving speeches. I mean, of course, William Jefferson Clinton, former President of the United States.

So what is there about Bill Cosby that is different from Bill Clinton which makes many people believe that Cosby is guilty while most people believe that Clinton is innocent and that his accusers (such as Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick) are trailer trash and liars?

 

[rdhd]

I also wonder why the accusations are coming out now, and not years ago. I know there's no statute of limitations on murder; other crimes, I don't know, but it seems it has long since passed.

 

[General Zod]

I did not know of the others coming forward with their allegations. A big part of me thinks these women are just wanting money and their 15 minutes of fame. Another part of me thinks he may have done it. Shame on the networks for doing on what they have done,before it was proven that he did them.

 

[Mitchell]

Zod has an interesting point about the women wanting their 15 minutes of fame.

In regard to the point of why the women involved in this didn't come forth before now.. it could very well just be fear.

I still don't see how he rebuilds his image unless he is cleared of all these charges very soon. Cosby is 77 years old.. so the law of averages says he doesn't have.. 15 or 20 years to wade through long lawsuits, even if he would be cleared, and then have time to rebuild his image.

 

[Mitchell]

The genius Glenn Beck.. who might be the public figure that I despise most in this world.. said today that Cosby is a victim of "Media Rape".. I read some stories which said Beck said a "Very dumb thing".

I could see if Beck said something like "We need to wait to see if the allegations can be proven, or what really happens.. or just how long the fallout lasts. "

"Media Rape". Er.. no. Up until this situation.. Cosby was one of the most loved public figures in the world. It isn't like you're talking about a guy who has been raked over the coals by the media in the past.

 

[rdhd]

It's the problem with humanity. Even though, in this country at least, we say "innocent until proven guilty", we'd rather go with "guilty until proven innocent, and even then, you're guilty". And also, why is it that these gals that make the accusations (against any star) aren't stellar beauties? You'd think the famous person would have needed the drugs to do the purported acts. (And, I'll get slammed on that idea.)

 

[Amnesiac]

The thing about rape is that nobody wants to endorse it, but if you choose to believe the person who is proven wrong--either in court of law or public opinion--then you are accused of endorsing it because you backed the wrong horse.

This makes rape accusations a powerful tool for justice, but also a powerful shield against suspicion. Like climate change, homosexuality, or God, nobody wants to be on the wrong side and until conclusive evidence is discovered, people try to stay on the fence. But in the last 40 years, proof that rape charges have been used as weapons by opportunistic parasites against innocent people have created an equally vocal Devil's Advocacy culture that immediately suspects rape accusers as frauds with the same conviction as victim's rights advocates do in their immediate vilification of the accused.

This makes an already difficult issue even more complicated; to the point where even a victory produces no winners.

What makes Cosby's case so compelling isn't just Cosby's fame and cultural import; it's also the fact that the pattern of accusers seems to match the pattern of emergence that follows cases like those against the Catholic Church: one person comes forward at the right time and place, and then everybody else who has wanted to do so collects the courage FROM that to do the same. Sure, these women could be copying each others' claims to make their case more believable...but that same example could also be legitimate observational evidence to a predatory nature in Cosby.

We don't want to believe that all these women could be lying because we'd like to believe that people aren't that stupid to take such a risk. But they are.

We don't want to believe that all these women are telling the truth because it means that one of our cultural icons--a landmark icon no less--is actually a sexual predator. But they could be.

But since I'm not involved and the case is above my pay grade, I'm not going to make my judgments until it's over.


P.S.
On a side note, I'd argue--however futilely--that Cosby's case is slightly different than Gibson for the following reason. Gibson's public image, as it does with many actors, conveys a perception about his personal nature, which is why Gibson's fall was so shocking. People like Cosby and Polanski are slightly different because their work is an extension of their creativity, but not intended to be an expression of their true self. Cosby's work helped create within the public an idea of who he is, but that's looking to be untrue; it was something he capitalized on, but not something he necessarily set out to create in the beginning. He originally just wanted to be a comedian who didn't let profanity or scatalogical humor to hinder his comedic discipline.

Whether Cosby is victim or villain, his reputation is what has lost it's power. His work, however, remains as skilled and effective as it has always been: it's still funny, even if the man himself no longer is.

 

[Mitchell]

Not that her opinion matters, because she isn't a member of this forum, but.. I was talking to my aunt the artist about this tonight. She said that she thinks these women are making the stories up, to extort money from Dr Cosby.. Her view is why did the women involved wait so long to come forth.

My mom loved Dr Cosby, and his work.

However, in spite of that, I know that she would have gone with the "If there's smoke there's fire, theory", and would probably have thought that the accusations by these women had merit.


I want to make clear that I do NOT want to turn this into a mud slinging war, because I realize what I;m about to bring up is very controversial, but..

A certain..former football player, who is currently serving a long sentence for armed robbery, and who was found liable of wrongful death, and who many believe murdered two people.. was also one of the most beloved figures in history, as football star, movie star, Hertz endorser, and football announcer, and look how fast and far he fell from grace.

He wont be leaving prison for at least another four years, and even if or when he does get out, his reputation has been tarnished forever, due to both acts. .

That case is the only one I can compare to this one, even though the circumstances were different, and it involved death/murder, and not rape. It's the only one I can think of in recent memory, where such a beloved figure, was accused of such a serious act.

 

[chicago]

The statute of limitations for aggravated rape is like 15 years, so aside from fame and ruining cosbys life, I dont think theres much else to gain

 

[Mitchell]

Chicago.. the problem with what you're saying is this.

You keep saying "The statute of limitations, and these women have nothing to gain by doing this except ruining Cosby's life. "

What I'm about to post is purely hypothetical.. but..

Imagine if a female registered for this forum, and posted. "Mitch acted out his fantasy of robbing me, and then held me down, and tickled my feet, and sucked on my toes.. 10 or 20 years ago, and he forciably did those things to me".

I guarantee.. people would be calling for Myriads and Jeff to ban me, and calling me the biggest criminal and creep alive, even if I couldn't be thrown in jail for it anymore, because the statute had expired. .

My point is.,. if Cosby did these things.. he did them.. and.. even if he cant pay by being prosecuted.. his "I'm such a clean guy image" should take a hit, because, if he did do these things, to forciably sexually assault women, he should not be considered the icon like figure that he always has been.

 

[chicago]

Chicago.. the problem with what you're saying is this.

You keep saying "The statute of limitations, and these women have nothing to gain by doing this except ruining Cosby's life. "

What I'm about to post is purely hypothetical.. but..

Imagine if a female registered for this forum, and posted. "Mitch acted out his fantasy of robbing me, and then held me down, and tickled my feet, and sucked on my toes.. 10 or 20 years ago, and he forciably did those things to me".

I guarantee.. people would be calling for Myriads and Jeff to ban me, and calling me the biggest criminal and creep alive, even if I couldn't be thrown in jail for it anymore, because the statute had expired. .

My point is.,. if Cosby did these things.. he did them.. and.. even if he cant pay by being prosecuted.. his "I'm such a clean guy image" should take a hit, because, if he did do these things, to forciably sexually assault women, he should not be considered the icon like figure that he always has been.

I really dont see how your analogy works since Cosby is a celebrity with a public image to maintain etc. That said, Mel Gibson is still doing movies and Michael Richards is still on tv and theres proof of what they did. Granted, rape is much more serious, but again we have no way of ever knowing if Cosby is guilty or not. Until the next celebrity scandal and/or media circus, this will be "news".

 

[Mitchell]

I don't agree with what you said. I'm not going to turn this into a personal thing. I have my opinion, you have yours. Suffice to say that many must think it is serious, if major networks like TVLand and NBC have turned their back on Cosby.

Ultimately, the deciding factor will be what happens to him long term. Will this just be a phase where he has a tough time for a while, and then is forgiven.. or will it tarnish him permanently.