Cack =/= Art

[Kalamos]

I also think it's wrong that people aren't allowed to post criticisms because they may seem too harsh. Kids aren't allowed here, so I don't get why people are so concerned with sparing people's feelings as if they're children. Everything should be open to all comments and if you can't handle that don't post.

Because, as Tyklfynd correctly said, some "peeps" post for the sake of posting, or maybe just to bump a friend's thread up.

And the funny deal is, if critique devolves into flame, you actually give weak artists even more exposure, missing the whole original point.

...

Then again, I don't like this kind of threads.
It makes ppl embarassed and jealous.

Just because ppl masturbate over these pics, it doesn't mean everybody is a sane and balanced adult.
That is why I would suggest avoiding the topic altogether.

...

If you really want to fight "cack" art hogging exposure, I would suggest something more subtle than all-out critique.
Bumping threads you like, instead.
Digging up older pics, so they get a new lease of life.
Anything, but fattening the reply count up with potential flame baiting.

Remember: flame is in the eye of the beholder.
No matter how tactful a critique is, somebody is gonna read it as: "my artist is better than your artist".
And we don't want that kind of nonsense.

...

Mark my words: you start telling ppl their stuff sucks - or could use some improvement, just to stay on the safe side of PC - and they or their friends, might get resentful.

They start imagining things, such as that funny idea about "elite artists" wanting to get the forum all for themselves.

Don't light the match unless you can run faster than the fuse is long.

 

[Laugh704]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but here's one idea..

Why not have a art class forum? Someone in charge could have a weekly topic like "How to draw hands". Those interested could draw hands and display them. Everyone could critique them, with final word going to the one in charge of the forum. Each week there could be a new topic with more critiques. In the end everyone would learn from everyone. No harm no foul. If someone posts something totally off wall, the mod or person in charge of the forum could simply correct it. A forum of this nature could simply be overlooked by those not interested.

Just keep in mind that everyone participating would be getting critiqued. Face it, if you can't take criticism you don't belong in art class. I think any instructor would tell you that first day of class. But too, keep in mind it's all in fun and meant to help, not judge. In the end it may not eliminate 'cack' but I think it would take beginning measures to reduce it.

 

[Kalamos]

Why not have a art class forum? Someone in charge could have a weekly topic like "How to draw hands".

Because we do have that already.

-> http://www.ticklingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139

That is why this whole thing with "teaching the masses" is pointless.

What is the real point?
So called cack art flooding the forum?
How is a "cack"-thread-turned-art lesson going to be any fun?
"Cack" art stealing exposure? And you plan on giving it even more?
"Good" art going unnoticed? Pick your favourite artist and tell him/her you like it.

Giving extensive critiques in art threads themselves is missing the whole point.
You want to give out an in-depth analisys, you link the thread from the How-To forum, above, and you dissect the pic there.

We have a place for art lessons. Main art forum is no such place.

 

[laughinggaszone]

Because we do have that already.

-> http://www.ticklingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139

A good idea that went no where. In the two years that it's existed, it has
had 71 posts, of which only a handful gave actual technical advice. As i stated in an earlier thread, I intend to change that with some sticky tutorials
that the mods have agreed to try out. So, we'll see.

That is why this whole thing with "teaching the masses" is pointless.

What is the real point?
So called cack art flooding the forum?
How is a "cack"-thread-turned-art lesson going to be any fun?
"Cack" art stealing exposure? And you plan on giving it even more?
"Good" art going unnoticed? Pick your favourite artist and tell him/her you like it.

Kal, really, it's getting old. "Cack" artists aren't stealing your thunder. The notion that there is a limited amount of time to look at threads doesn't apply to this forum. Most folks are regulars and they look at the art they want to.
If someone is bumping substandard art, it doesn't diminish the number of views that you are getting or the number of praises. Most of this forum is full
of benign trolls. They look, enjoy and move on, not posting a simgle comment.
If you want a ton of comments in your threads, get yourself an ontourage.

Giving extensive critiques in art threads themselves is missing the whole point. You want to give out an in-depth analisys, you link the thread from the How-To forum, above, and you dissect the pic there.

We have a place for art lessons. Main art forum is no such place.

This is a sensible suggestion.
webmaster joe

 

[Kalamos]

A good idea that went no where. In the two years that it's existed, it has
had 71 posts.

Well, nobody used it to give advice out.
It was mostly ppl coming out, and actively asking for it.

I don't think imposing on users with this critique thing is going to help.
And this leads us to point two...

Kal, really, it's getting old. "Cack" artists aren't stealing your thunder.

Believe it or not, I wasn't referring to mine.

We have other good artists, and they are way less vocal than I am.
I'm just voicing out a sensible criticism to your idea.


I don't think critique belongs to the main art forum.
I think it ultimately leads to more clutter and flaming.
I don't trust the "benign trolls" to behave and let you tear apart their beloved artists, no matter how "cack" they are, without lashing back.
It happened before. I think it might happen again.

I said that and I have no problem repeating all over again.
Offering open criticism is just like posting idle praise, reply wise.
Whatever you post, critique works like a bump.

I don't know for sure if it is going to steal my thunder.
But I don't understand why you would be giving free advice and exposure out.
Do the likely candidates warrant your time and effort?
Who are they, anyway?

I'm not going to stop you.
I'm just questioning the ultimate point of this whole thing.
Praising good artists seems much more time/cost effective to me.

The notion that there is a limited amount of time to look at threads doesn't apply to this forum. Most folks are regulars and they look at the art they want to.

Actually not.
You might want to give a peek to the active users list.
A lot of users have 10- posts.
Most are just 0 posts lurkers.
Many get to watch just the latest thread.

By bumping "cack" art with criticism, all you offer them is "cack" art and criticism.
Bump good art, and you'll be doing a better service with less trouble.

If you want a ton of comments in your threads, get yourself an ontourage.

Entourage.
And I work solo.

...

Seriously, that is not my style.
I don't beg ppl for votes or replies.

I could use more hits/replies; most of my threads sink before hitting 2k.
I wish they lasted longer, but I cannot stalk ppl so they'll post something.

And I could resort to self-bumping, it's not like I'm shy or anything.
It's demeaning, but, hey, it isn't the loss of mine.

I could have posted a whole lot more.
When ppl let my thread sink, they deprive themselves of more pics.
If they are really as good as you claim, they should blame themselves for not realising it.
And it they are just ok, well, it's no big loss.

Maybe you shouldn't lecture artists, but the friends of theirs how to be less obtrusive.
Problem is not with weak art itself.
Problem - as other claims - is with ppl worshipping it.

I say, kill them all and let the gods sort them out.

😉

This is a sensible suggestion.

Then act on it.

 

[laughinggaszone]

Well, nobody used it to give advice out.
It was mostly ppl coming out, and actively asking for it.

I don't think imposing on users with this critique thing is going to help.
And this leads us to point two...




Believe it or not, I wasn't referring to mine.

We have other good artists, and they are way less vocal than I am.
I'm just voicing out a sensible criticism to your idea.


I don't think critique belongs to the main art forum.
I think it ultimately leads to more clutter and flaming.
I don't trust the "benign trolls" to behave and let you tear apart their beloved artists, no matter how "cack" they are, without lashing back.
It happened before. I think it might happen again.

I said that and I have no problem repeating all over again.
Offering open criticism is just like posting idle praise, reply wise.
Whatever you post, critique works like a bump.

I don't know for sure if it is going to steal my thunder.
But I don't understand why you would be giving free advice and exposure out.
Do the likely candidates warrant your time and effort?
Who are they, anyway?

I'm not going to stop you.
I'm just questioning the ultimate point of this whole thing.
Praising good artists seems much more time/cost effective to me.




Actually not.
You might want to give a peek to the active users list.
A lot of users have 10- posts.
Most are just 0 posts lurkers.
Many get to watch just the latest thread.

By bumping "cack" art with criticism, all you offer them is "cack" art and criticism.
Bump good art, and you'll be doing a better service with less trouble.




Entourage.
And I work solo.

...

Seriously, that is not my style.
I don't beg ppl for votes or replies.

I could use more hits/replies; most of my threads sink before hitting 2k.
I wish they lasted longer, but I cannot stalk ppl so they'll post something.

And I could resort to self-bumping, it's not like I'm shy or anything.
It's demeaning, but, hey, it isn't the loss of mine.

I could have posted a whole lot more.
When ppl let my thread sink, they deprive themselves of more pics.
If they are really as good as you claim, they should blame themselves for not realising it.
And it they are just ok, well, it's no big loss.

Maybe you shouldn't lecture artists, but the friends of theirs how to be less obtrusive.
Problem is not with weak art itself.
Problem - as other claims - is with ppl worshipping it.

I say, kill them all and let the gods sort them out.

😉




Then act on it.

Kal, you and I are just going in circles on this matter. You see no value in a pro active effort to help improve unskilled artists. You chalk it up to simply
fueling the great cack conspiracy, which I fail to see. If we get rid of "cack" by helping artists improve, then folks won't be worshipping it and we can all appreciate it.
webmaster joe

 

[Kalamos]

Kal, you and I are just going in circles on this matter.

That is true... but you can't ask me to blindly trust your idea, without seeing how you plan on acting on it.
If you started posting critiques, we could see how it works, and I would be able to say something new.
As it stands, you are just scaring everybody, for no practical good.

You see no value in a pro active effort to help improve unskilled artists.
You chalk it up to simply fueling the great cack conspiracy.

No, sorry. Not what I said. 😉

No matter what you post, either idle praise or insightful critique, a reply is a reply.
If we say that TMF is being flooded with "cack" art, hogging the art forum, all replies, any replies, add to the flood.

As I pointed out, main art forum is not meant to be used for critiques.
How-to forum is.
Try and use it, before assuming it's useless.

If we get rid of "cack" by helping artists improve, then folks won't be worshipping it and we can all appreciate it.

You just suggested me to get an entourage for myself, so I think you are contradicting yourself here.

Folks don't worship "cack" art out of cluelessness.
They love it, in spite of its actual quality, because they are friends with the artists.
And you can't stop friends from buping friends.
No matter how hard you try and expose doodlers as such.

Actually, it might backfire, and you would be fuelling a nasty flame, and spread strife instead of harmony.

...

Then again, this is just my opinion.
Act your plans out, and let's see how they work.

 

[laughinggaszone]

That is true... but you can't ask me to blindly trust your idea, without seeing how you plan on acting on it.
If you started posting critiques, we could see how it works, and I would be able to say something new.

And yet, you've already passed judgment on the idea. Follow your advice. wait and see, then tell me how bad the idea is.

As it stands, you are just scaring everybody, for no practical good.

Gee, I'm scarring everybody. I didn't know I was that good.

No, sorry. Not what I said. 😉

No matter what you post, either idle praise or insightful critique, a reply is a reply.
If we say that TMF is being flooded with "cack" art, hogging the art forum, all replies, any replies, add to the flood.

Not true, there are not that many active threads at any one time that people cannot look at them all. Let's face it, you're jealous because cack artists are getting more press than you. 😉

As I pointed out, main art forum is not meant to be used for critiques.
How-to forum is.
Try and use it, before assuming it's useless.

It's useless in it's current configuration. In the two years it's been around, it has done almost nothing to advance the skills of artists. No tutorials, few technical expainations. I have already spoken to the mods about changing this.

You just suggested me to get an entourage for myself, so I think you are contradicting yourself here.

It was a joke. I was saying that if you want a lot of praise, like cack artists get, get yourself an entourage (friends) to bump you.

Folks don't worship "cack" art out of cluelessness.
They love it, in spite of its actual quality, because they are friends with the artists.
And you can't stop friends from buping friends.
No matter how hard you try and expose doodlers as such.

Actually, it might backfire, and you would be fuelling a nasty flame, and spread strife instead of harmony.Then again, this is just my opinion.
Act your plans out, and let's see how they work.

You really are a Doctor Doom, you know that Kal. You don't know how this will turn out anymore than I do. As you said, let's see how it turns out.
webmaster joe

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I think jealously is a big component in this situation, but it's subtle. Some people here may only be looking out for number 1, which is part of why not everyone is exactly on the same page. I don't see where helping cack artists threatens a veteran artist's position here. This whole thing isn't about helping ourselves, its about helping others. Perhaps some people are losing sight of that because they worry what will happen to them. If thats the case, they're being motivated by their own selfishness and greed.

Laughinggaszone isn't looking out for number 1, and I respect that. Its easier to trust what he wants to do because whats he's saying isn't insecure and it doesn't involve him outside of his tutorials, so he has no ulterior motive other than to see his project succeed.

If some of our veteran artists are afraid this does concern them, then they're only thinking about themselves, since you cannot logically assume that helping to make cack artists better is any sort of threat to you. While it would be true we'd be helping to create better artists, and alot of attention would be going to these people, people who are already ahead and at the top right now most likely would remain there unless we get like some kind of prodigy that can trump us all or someone who who just learns really, REALLY fast. LOL 😀

And really, what does it matter so much if the number of people who can draw better than you grows? That doesn't change you at all. It might adjust or alter the attention you get, but it won't destroy it. In fact, if we're going to be in a position to be helping out lesser artists, thats more good press for you, since you look like a caretaker, teacher, guardian, and general do-gooder. People are actually more likely to look up to you, not past you towards the new talent.

 

[Zach_attack]

I give this thread an award for longest theard with most replies, posts, and views.

CONGRATS HEADSNAP!!!..you did it man...they said it couldnt be done..
.............but u showed them...............

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

*prepares for the awards ceremony* 😀

 

[laughinggaszone]

Laughinggaszone isn't looking out for number 1, and I respect that. Its easier to trust what he wants to do because whats he's saying isn't insecure and it doesn't involve him outside of his tutorials, so he has no ulterior motive other than to see his project succeed.

Well, that isn't quite true. I do gain something if this is successful: more quality art. I have bought almost every e-comic that has been produced and advertised through this forum. Quite frankly, there isn't enough of it. Waiting six months for the next Agencies or Vel issue to come out is agony. So, I do have some less than altruistic motivations, but they are long term and will hardly play out overnight.
webmaster joe

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well, that isn't quite true. I do gain something if this is successful: more quality art. I have bought almost every e-comic that has been produced and advertised through this forum. Quite frankly, there isn't enough of it. Waiting six months for the next Agencies or Vel issue to come out is agony. So, I do have some less than altruistic motivations, but they are long term and will hardly play out overnight.
webmaster joe

Yes, you do gain something, but so does everyone else which is the beauty of seeing this succeed. Its not a selfish gain is what I meant, though I'm sure you know that.

 

[JPC_Poserartist]

If some of our veteran artists are afraid this does concern them, then they're only thinking about themselves, since you cannot logically assume that helping to make cack artists better is any sort of threat to you. While it would be true we'd be helping to create better artists, and alot of attention would be going to these people, people who are already ahead and at the top right now most likely would remain there unless we get like some kind of prodigy that can trump us all or someone who who just learns really, REALLY fast. LOL 😀

And really, what does it matter so much if the number of people who can draw better than you grows? That doesn't change you at all. It might adjust or alter the attention you get, but it won't destroy it. In fact, if we're going to be in a position to be helping out lesser artists, thats more good press for you, since you look like a caretaker, teacher, guardian, and general do-gooder. People are actually more likely to look up to you, not past you towards the new talent.

Honestly, I don't know how much of that is true or not (the jealously argument).....and I agree with that BTW.....but seriously, just LOL re: that even being an option! I mean, c'mon people....this is an art forum on a tickling fetish site. Seriously, it's not that big of a deal, and if you think it is, just simply WOW!

Personally speaking, I got into creating poser art (tickling, super heroines, etc) because I wanted to create while also giving people free comics and art. The idea that when I post something, and it doesn't get any comments or hits, meanwhile something I view as "lesser" than my own work gets tons of praise, that I'm supposed to act all jealous and pissed off??? Not at all, and if you (artists in general) find that to be the case, please get out of this game, because you're obviously taking this stuff WAY too seriously. This is supposed to be fun, period.

I'm not speaking about anyone in particular, just in general. Lighten up everyone and have fun and be creative. 🙂

JPC

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Honestly, I don't know how much of that is true or not (the jealously argument).....and I agree with that BTW.....but seriously, just LOL re: that even being an option! I mean, c'mon people....this is an art forum on a tickling fetish site. Seriously, it's not that big of a deal, and if you think it is, just simply WOW!

Personally speaking, I got into creating poser art (tickling, super heroines, etc) because I wanted to create while also giving people free comics and art. The idea that when I post something, and it doesn't get any comments or hits, meanwhile something I view as "lesser" than my own work gets tons of praise, that I'm supposed to act all jealous and pissed off??? Not at all, and if you (artists in general) find that to be the case, please get out of this game, because you're obviously taking this stuff WAY too seriously. This is supposed to be fun, period.

I'm not speaking about anyone in particular, just in general. Lighten up everyone and have fun and be creative. 🙂

JPC

Very well said. I mentioned jealously not because it was a main point (its not), but because there is bound to be some. I agree that if there are artists who would fall under the discription of what I and you saying then they should reconsider how they exist here and what they consider their own priorities.

My point in mentioning this specifically, aside from everything else I'm saying, is that this is also about change, and adapting to and accepting it. This whole topic is about a change and what each can do according to their level of readiness in that change.

 

[Kalamos]

Let's face it, you're jealous because cack artists are getting more press than you. 😉

Frankly speaking, I don't know.
I don't have a mono-rail mind; I cannot 100% deny or confirm.

Others said we have a prob with weak artists getting too much attention.
And you suggest giving them even more exposure, hoping they'll get better.
I think it's flawed.

You should help good artists to reach excellence.
Not weak artists to reach mediocrity.
But problem is: this kind of talk creates strife, "my artist vs your artist" situations.
I've seen early evidences of that in this thread.
I would suggest against starting a fan war.

It's useless in it's current configuration.
I have already spoken to the mods about changing this.

Speaking and getting the green light isn't the same thing.

It was a joke. I was saying that if you want a lot of praise, like cack artists get, get yourself an entourage (friends) to bump you.

Well, if I were really good, I wouldn't need ppl bumping my threads... 😉
And as things stand, I'm not exactly encouraged to get any better.

You really are a Doctor Doom, you know that Kal. You don't know how this will turn out anymore than I do. As you said, let's see how it turns out.

Well, not everybody can be Captain Cheerful, eh?
And I'm not saying I just know.
I'm pointing out what could go wrong.

You're not being subtle about it either.

 

[ngauntjsmith]

[On the suggestion of having a separate forum for high-quality art:]

Again, it doesn't solve the problem, it merely segragates it.

But so what? So what if we don't "solve the problem" of that most people aren't professional artists? Isn't it perfectly okay that most people aren't professional artists? Is this something that the TMF is supposed to fix?

Let's have some perspective: the TMF isn't meant to be some kind of distance-learning center or Internet art school or vehicle for self actualization. It's an adult site plus community. Yes, it's great if people get better at drawing, but we're not required to architect the site for that purpose. If some dude draws at a 3rd grade level and never improves, that is not in itself a terrible tragedy.

No, the real problem is that people come here looking for pictures---because it is an adult site---and they are overwhelmed by reams of stuff that disturbs them and turns them off. When I'm looking for erotica the last thing I want to see is something that looks like it was drawn by a 13-year-old child. That's a creepy thing to find when you're looking for stuff of an adult nature. And you can't really avoid it (although the thumbnails help some.)

In other words, the problem is arranging the forums so people can find what they want without finding what they don't want. Hence the labeling */m and */f, hence a separate forum for mainstream clips, a separate forum for requests, etc. Having a separate forum for decent art to reduce the signal-to-noise ratio is one way to solve this problem.

Besides, you already have a "how do you do it" forum. You already have a forum specifically for people who want to learn how to draw better---it's just up to them to actually participate.

 

[laughinggaszone]

Others said we have a prob with weak artists getting too much attention. And you suggest giving them even more exposure, hoping they'll get better. I think it's flawed.

Are you sure you don't have a monorail mind? 😉 You keep riding the same deadend. I am not suggesting we simply give them more attention. Simply giving them attention is the problem. They need constructive attention.

You should help good artists to reach excellence.
Not weak artists to reach mediocrity.

How socially darwin of you.

But problem is: this kind of talk creates strife, "my artist vs your artist" situations.
I've seen early evidences of that in this thread.
I would suggest against starting a fan war.

I have seen no such thing. This thread has remained open because that sort of thing has not taken place.

Speaking and getting the green light isn't the same thing.

I'll clarify. I HAVE the greenlight.

 

[laughinggaszone]

[On the suggestion of having a separate forum for high-quality art:]

But so what? So what if we don't "solve the problem" of that most people aren't professional artists? Isn't it perfectly okay that most people aren't professional artists? Is this something that the TMF is supposed to fix?

In my opinion, yes. If you don't share my opinion, feel free to do nothing. I for one intend to do something.

Let's have some perspective: the TMF isn't meant to be some kind of distance-learning center or Internet art school or vehicle for self actualization. It's an adult site plus community. Yes, it's great if people get better at drawing, but we're not required to architect the site for that purpose. If some dude draws at a 3rd grade level and never improves, that is not in itself a terrible tragedy.

"There are certain things in which mediocrity is intolerable: poetry, music, painting, public eloquence. What torture it is to hear a frigid speech being pompously declaimed, or second-rate verse spoken with all a bad poet's bombast!" - Jean de la Bruyere, French satirist.

No, the real problem is that people come here looking for pictures---because it is an adult site---and they are overwhelmed by reams of stuff that disturbs them and turns them off. When I'm looking for erotica the last thing I want to see is something that looks like it was drawn by a 13-year-old child. That's a creepy thing to find when you're looking for stuff of an adult nature. And you can't really avoid it (although the thumbnails help some.)

In other words, the problem is arranging the forums so people can find what they want without finding what they don't want. Hence the labeling */m and */f, hence a separate forum for mainstream clips, a separate forum for requests, etc. Having a separate forum for decent art to reduce the signal-to-noise ratio is one way to solve this problem.

You are simply addressing the same issue from your own perspective.

Besides, you already have a "how do you do it" forum. You already have a forum specifically for people who want to learn how to draw better---it's just up to them to actually participate.

As I've explained to Kal, that forum is woefully underused. I would like to see if it's potential can be reached. We shall see.
webmaster joe

 

[ngauntjsmith]

"There are certain things in which mediocrity is intolerable: poetry, music, painting, public eloquence. What torture it is to hear a frigid speech being pompously declaimed, or second-rate verse spoken with all a bad poet's bombast!" - Jean de la Bruyere, French satirist.

But your local adult web site is not obligated to fix this particular social ill.

Let me clarify my position: people should feel free to post their stuff, and if they're not good then they're not good. If they don't improve then they don't improve. The art cops won't arrest you. You don't have to get better.

This is all cool, just as long as people who want to view decent art can find what they want, without clicking on threads they don't want to see.
People who are looking for m/f can find it without accidentally clicking on m/m. People who are looking for videos can find them without accidentally clicking on requests. Requests are okay, as long as people don't click on them by accident and get frustrated. That's why we have a separate requests forum. The TMF is thoughtfully organized to make our lives easy.

It's all about arranging the forums so people get to what they want to see, without accidentally stepping in something that they really didn't want to see. Disturbingly bad drawings fall into this category, because they creep some people out. The solution is not to give people online lessons until the average quality of drawings improve several years later. The solution is to simply arrange the forums so that caca is not intermingled with pictures people want to see.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Then, gentlemen, we do both. We seperate it (or give it a rating system as I suggested earlier), AND we offer to help artists in this way. Theres no reason why we cannot do both. In fact, there are certain benefits to doing both at the same time.

For instance, you can seperate the cack, and then tutor/critique/ an artist there. That way, your activity doesn't get in the way of everyone else and neither does the cack. The artists who draw cack should be able to understand that while they're getting better, its to everyone's benefit if they post their work in a seperate place, so that, eventually, when they feel they are ready, then can post in the regular artwork forum. They will have earned it and will have had something to be proud about in addition to becoming a better artist, as it was a journey. Like a child getting his training wheels off his bike, and so being able to travel more places more freely, a beginner-level artist will be able to make the transitional step into the full art forum, where, just like terrain with a bike, there will be bumps and hazards (critiques and crticisms) awaiting them there, but they'll be better prepared for them.

In order to ensure a sheltered environment during the process of learning, we could make it a rule where you cannot critique or criticise an artist who posts in that forum (unless you've volunteered to do so). This will allow people who are not confident in their skills and ability or experience to mingle with eachother and help eachother out freely without the harsher realities that await them in the artwork forum. 🙂

If we need/want to, we could also create a public sign-up sheet for those who want to volunteer their time to help the artists out. This sign-up sheet should be a sticky.

By having a sign-up sheet, with a list of the names of people who volunteered, it allows us to go about our business without having to worry about critics saying they want to help but actually doing nothing but criticising or trolling. This way, if your name is not on the list, its easier to weed you out if you're causing trouble and delete/edit your posts and warn you, or both.

Likewise, if your name is on the list, and you've volunteered to help, it would be a public shame upon you if you were to insult anyone and also lie by using your registration as an excuse to cause trouble. Since your name is on the list of people claiming to help and thats public knowledge, its a shame you'd have to live down. This creates accountability for anyone who enters that forum looking to take advantage of the fact that all the beginner artists or ones who want help are alltogether, in a single forum, conveniently (conveniently being both good and bad, but hey, its not perfect and it cannot be).

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Also, in the case of artists who can draw reasonably well or even good or great but don't want the critiques (whether this is because they think they're too good for critiques or they're just trying to escape them or make excuses not to get them) they would have to choose whether to post in the artwork forum and be subject to critiques and criticisms of a higher level, or post in the learning forum. While it is true they'd be able to avoid heavier criticisms in that forum and could use the forum deliberately for that reason, its also true that they wouldn't get as noticed or get as much attention as they want, since thats where the "cack" is, and most of us won't be there unless we're helping out. So, they have the choice of isolating themselves or doing some maturing and braving the forum.

So, this is another benefit to doing what I said in my last post. It forces even our best artists to accept the reality of posting art in a public forum, but it gives them the choice of whether they're willing to deal with it. If they're not willing to deal with it, then maybe they're not as good as they think they are, and really SHOULD be in the beginner forum anyway, like everyone else thats already there.

See the irony? Its perfect. It keeps everyone in check, both great and small.

 

[Kalamos]

Are you sure you don't have a monorail mind? 😉 You keep riding the same deadend.

I'd rather call it a sensible critique to your one-way plan.
You are not offering us other viable options.
It's either do it your way, or do it your way.
You decided this forum needs your guidance.
You informed mods of your plans.
You never asked anybody's opinions.

I think your plan is ultimately disurptive, especially the way you mean to carry it out.

Does my opinion count?
I don't know.
I haven't thrown my weight in with mods yet, so I don't really know how much it counts.
We can find out.

I am not suggesting we simply give them more attention. Simply giving them attention is the problem. They need constructive attention.

And, for the Nth time I reply: you should give constructive attention to ppl who have some use for it.
And especially, to ppl who ASKED for it.

How socially darwin of you.

I never said you should kill weak artists off.
Maybe their fans.

...

My point stands.
At least I'm true about my intentions: I want visibility, and I am not ashamed to ask for it.
If I am any good, I deserve it.
If I am struggling, I need help, just any other weak artist.

However you put it, I get the short end of the stick, and I don't see why I should be happy about it.

I have seen no such thing. This thread has remained open because that sort of thing has not taken place.

It *has* happened and quickly died off.
We refrained ourselves from naming ppl, so fanboys couldn't chime in and voice their opinions.

I'll clarify. I HAVE the greenlight.

First, nobody asked our opinion.
Second, if they really gave you the green light, something I intend to investigate on, stop this nonsense and let's see what you can do.

 

[moonknight80200]

But your local adult web site is not obligated to fix this particular social ill.

Let me clarify my position: people should feel free to post their stuff, and if they're not good then they're not good. If they don't improve then they don't improve. The art cops won't arrest you. You don't have to get better.

This is all cool, just as long as people who want to view decent art can find what they want, without clicking on threads they don't want to see.
People who are looking for m/f can find it without accidentally clicking on m/m. People who are looking for videos can find them without accidentally clicking on requests. Requests are okay, as long as people don't click on them by accident and get frustrated. That's why we have a separate requests forum. The TMF is thoughtfully organized to make our lives easy.

It's all about arranging the forums so people get to what they want to see, without accidentally stepping in something that they really didn't want to see. Disturbingly bad drawings fall into this category, because they creep some people out. The solution is not to give people online lessons until the average quality of drawings improve several years later. The solution is to simply arrange the forums so that caca is not intermingled with pictures people want to see.

I really like this idea. It is logical and makes perfect sense. The only possible glitch I see is the artist's ego getting in the way. Let's say I'm a cack artist with a bit of a following and maybe my own sub-forum in the artwork archives section. All this ego-boosting has led me to think I'm better than I really am. How are you going to convince me to stop choking the primary art forum with my stuff and comfine it to the appropriate area?

 

[Kalamos]

How are you going to convince me to stop choking the primary art forum with my stuff and comfine it to the appropriate area?

Doesn't seem feasible or nice, to me.

If LG Joe is right, only fans populate the art forum, and they'd resent their beloved artists to get the axe in any way.

If we assume, as I pointed out, that lurkers too visit the art forum, then they depend on ppl's bumping threads for them to watch.

Either curtailing artists' freedom of posting, or educating their drawing skills against their will, feel like a basic breach in the "live and let live" rule.

You dislike somebody's art, you comment on somebody's else.
It seems like a much simpler, nicer and saner option.
Eveything else smells like stirring the pot.
It's like cutting a tall guy's legs so he won't stand out in the crowd.