Car Dealership Question - Should I Be Worried? Please Help!!

[OBleedingMe]

Okay, here's the situation - I'm a 21 year old guy buying his first new car - a 2005 Ford Mustang GT. I have been to several dealerships (about 8 or 9) in the NJ area, including Downs Ford and Larson Ford and I have been treated like crap. Ignored, sneered at, left sitting at a salesmen's desk for over a half hour for an answer to a simple question (how much of a deposit for a preorder)... and it's all because of my age. No one takes me seriously at ALL. And the funny thing is, I have the money to pay for this damn thing! I know, hard to believe in this day and age, but I do have the money or I wouldn't be there.
I've finally wound up going to a Ford dealership in Princeton. They are connected (or so they told me) with the Flemington network of dealerships, a HUGE network of Ford dealerships in the NJ area. A bit out of my way, but they were they only ones who sat down with me and my g/f and treated me like a decent human being. I gave them a $500 deposit for my preorder, went over the options with my sales rep (we'll call him "Dave"), and put my order in the computer. That was about two and a half weeks ago.
Now here's my problem. I called up "Dave" last week for the first time since putting down the deposit to tweak the options because I realized that the IUP did NOT come with the GT Premium Standard. So I called him to schedule a time to come in and fix this problem real quick, and this is what I got:

"Hey D-"
"Hey Charlie, hold on second." (shouts to someone, supposedly) "Hey so-and-so, we got any info on the 2005 Mustang yet? No, sorry, we don't have info on it yet, Charlie. Talk to you later," he says curtly.
"No, wait! I'm not calling about pricing! I just want to tweak my options a bit."
Long pause. Then a sigh. "Oh."
"So can I come in around such-and-such time and get this out of the way?"
"Sure, that's fine. See you then."
"Okay, th-" Click!

The guy sounded like I was being an annoyance to him and then he practically hung up on me! I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and showed up at the specified date/time to add on the IUP. I saw Dave for maybe a total of three seconds before he just sort of shuffled me off to a guy who did the preorders and I was able to fix my options. I left feeling very... well.... like I was (once again) not taken serious in the slightest sense. This is KILLING me. I wrote him the check for $500 and it cleared. Shouldn't that show them I have at least SOME interest in the damned car? I also told him I was willing to pay between $10k - $12k down and finance the rest. Shit man, I know 45 year olds who put $3k down on a brand new BMW and they get treated like kings.
I'm not asking to be showered with empty compliments on my attire or anything like that, but I would like to be treated with some semblance of respect.
Another problem - I've asked him a few times what his dealership's allotment of 2005s was going to be. He dodged the question every time. I doubt he really knows the answer. The fact that they are connected to Flemington heartens me since their so huge and I'm sure they got a generous share. I am heartened further by the fact that "Joe", the preorder guy I talked to for the IUP, told me I was the second in line to preorder at their dealership. They've GOT to have an allotment of at least two, right?
Any dealers out there have an idea of when pricing is coming in? I hope soon, because I am ready to negotiate with this guy, as I'm almost positive he'll try to gouge me. Man, is he in for a surprise. My father taught me well, and besides, I'm Italian - haggling is in my blood. :-D
Anyway, anyone got any suggestions for how to get some respect from these guys? Any advice from any Ford salesmen? I've been as courteous, professional, and businesslike as possible... or is it just impossible to be taken seriously at my age until I lay down my $10+k?

 

[dtrell]

welcome to the new york/new jersey area. thats the exception there rather than the norm. its one of the reasons i hate flying through newark. just the opposite around here in akron.

 

[steph]

Au contrere mon ami~
Car salesmen everywhere are A-holes IMHO~I can't even look at these skeeves without needing a shower, let alone do business with them.
Exceptions~the Saturn dealership near here also sells other brands, they are fantastic~the price is non negotiable. And please consider Car-Max, their rep is excellent. At any rate, I wouldn't do further business with these creeps.
OB~Did you get anything in writing?
Please contact your local BBB and consider filing w/small claims~you have to ask for your $ back first, BTW. I had a landlord who caved the minute I mentioned court~NO ONE liked bad publicity. If you're really steamed, you may have a local TV station or newspaper w/a consumer rights group~My town has a couple. They broadcast what losers these dicks are and the get your $ back for you. You might also consider contacting Ford's HQ, who may or may not be helpful. I wish you luck...
XOXO

 

[tickledorange]

When buying something, if I'm worried about it, I go look around more.

 

[venray]

As a sales man , he makes no money by helping you after he has your check and a contract. He is off to "fry bigger fish" so to speak. It is a common occurence at car dealerships. I have found over the last several years that it doesn't matter what your age or status, the treatment is basically the same.

I have also found that it is easier to do all of the legwork on line and then walk into the dealership with folder in hand and say "this is what I want if you can help me then we can do business, if not then I shall go to one of another 20 dealers.."

Amazing how well you get treated then...

 

[steph]

And don't forget about your Kelly Blue book, now available online, so you don't get taken to the cleaners.

You might also consider, if it's not too humiliating for ya, bring an older friend or fam member, to play bulldog for you. It'll give you a second set of ears and their presence might lend the crdibility you need. My 70 year old mom, who's Italian AND a real estate agent (she lives for this stuff and lOVES it) AND who knows her way around an engine, goes with me EVERYTIME I car hunt. The guys always jump up, you can literally see the dollar signs in their eyes and practically read their mind, "Oh look at these cute little girls~watch me work 'em!"
Until she opens her mouth.
I don't usually have to say a word till it comes time to close the deal 😛
XOXO

 

[TummyDragon]

Well, sure they'll try to gouge you, and even more so since they've already collected the $500 deposit from you. They'll actually be far less likely to negotiate with you since they already have the deposit money. Any time the salesman (or the "manager" he runs to for applroving the deal) knows you *really* want the car, the price will go higher because you are more likely to absorb a hundred here, three hundred there, anything just to "get the car now".

You've got your work cut out for you since you are going for a new release high demand car. There will be very little room for negotiating as the prices will be artificially high initially. Especially so if the demand is even higher than expected, and since the dealership is affiliated with a larger network, they will have a good idea of demand and what the rich 'kids' are willing to part with to have the newest toy on the block. They will also try to tell you that your deposit is non-refundable. Read all the smallprint on the paperwork you have so far, it may state that the deposit is non-refundable, or only refundable for a certain period of time. It varies state to state.

You are in a very weak negotiating position with a new release high demand car because if you walk out the door (which you have to be willing to do in a negotiation), there's three more in line behind you willing to pay whatever it takes to get the car *now*.

Good luck with it. I hope it works out for you, but, as mentioned throughout this thread, most all car dealerships are populated with pretty nasty creatures so bring plenty of bullshit repellant.

Saturn, as Steph mentioned, is about the only dealership where the price is the price and that's the end of it, and they'll bend over backwards to help you. For anyone else, be prepared to fight with them for several hours (the longer you keep the salesman tied up with you, the higher you chance of getting what you want because he absolutely doesn't want to spend all that time and not walk away with a commission).

Look at it this way too: if you spend 8 hours going back and forth and save a thousand dollars, you just *made* yourself a grand for 8 hours work. That's a pretty good salary for a negotiator. 🙂

 

[tickledorange]

bring an older friend or fam member

I did that when we went used car shopping. I brought my brother and my dad, just so I had people with me and so they could also find things about the cars that I didn't see the first time.

 

[naveltkltr1350]

its always fun to get the guy who claims its the greatest car in the world..then you find the problems with it..shove it in his face and walk off..laughing! i did that...guy was trying to sell me an overpriced monte carlo, just cause it was jet black, with sunroof. Well, i pointed out every problem with the car..even the 100k on the odometer/motor..always take someone with you when buying a car! and dont let the salespeople push ya around!

 

[BigJim]

I'm gonna say this at the risk of sounding like a complete arsehole.

Why are you going for such a spankingly good motor for your first auto? Dropping that amount of wonga on your first car is a seriously bad move in my opinion.

Anyway, enough of being a spoilsport tosser. L8r.

 

[OBleedingMe]

Oh, this is certainly not my very first car, Jim. It's my very first NEW car. Before that I've owned a 1991 Saturn and a 1967 Shelby GT 500. I still own both, but will be selling the Saturn after I receive the 2005 Mustang. The Shelby was originally my father's (see my homepage), but I was allowed to have it because I restored it (it sat in our garage for 22+ years). It's a great car, with a superb engine my father built for it back in 1980. A 427 Tunnelport High-Rise. Over 600 HP, less than 400 miles on the engine.
My father is an ex-professional race driver and he sent me to Carroll Shelby's School of High Peformance Driving in Riverside, CA back when I was 18. I'm more than capable of handling the new Mustang. In fact, as soon as I get home with her, I intend on the putting some Flowmaster exhasuts on her and ripping open the engine to increase her compression ratio/advance the iginition timing to tune her for Premium fuel. Believe it or not, the new Mustang is tuned for regular 87 Octane. By tuning it to Premium, I'll get another 20-40 HP of the engine. 😎

 

[naveltkltr1350]

damn, you seriously know your cars! Flowmasters sound great! i have a flowmaster dual exit exhaust system on my Monte Carlo. im mainly a domestic car type of guy, althought i like cars by nissan and mitsubishi..thats it. Tha 'stang is gonna be kickass! te GT500 gotta be somethin of a phenomenon when you roll up to one of them Civic ricers with the loud obnoxious coffee cans for a exhaust system and burn em at the line! You gotta tell me how to tune the engine to premium, id love to add a little more horse to the monte until i get a newer faster car! probably the camaro ss if i can find one. maybe the firebird formula, or hell, that mustang Gt-r..id love an 80's vette, so i can throw a vortech supercharger in it. anyways, id really like to know how to fine tune my engine to get it up there in hp!

 

[OBleedingMe]

Well, ya gotta up the compression, advance the ignition timing... change spark plugs (hotter spark because premium has a higher flashpoint). You may need to change pistons because if they can't take the hotter spark you'll burn a hole in it... may need a larger cooling system as well, but doubtful. You'll probably have to take it to a speed shop to advance the ignition timing, as it's computer controlled.
If you're looking for an extra 20-60 HP, I'm sure there are SAFER ways - aftermarket bolt-ons or a computer chip will up your HP significantly. What I'm doing with my Mustang is pretty tough, but then again I want pretty tough results, lol.... and if I screw up pop goes the engine. So I would suggest if you just want a little extra zing to stick with bolt-on's and a few reputable computer chips/fuel management systems. Have a reputable speed shop tune your fuel management system for you if you get one. I've seen hundreds of amateurs who were novices at fuel management, went ahead and messed with the numbers anyhow, aaaaannnnddd threw a rod through the block the first time they revved it up. 🙄

 

[BigJim]

Oh, this is certainly not my very first car, Jim. It's my very first NEW car.

Ah, with you. My bad for misreading. 🙂


I'm a Peugeot man myself.

 

[steph]

I'm impressed OB~Very cool! Now, what have you decided to do about your problem?

XOXO

 

[tickledorange]

See, I would use some of that car expertise on the dealer and see how he reacts to that.

 

[naveltkltr1350]

Well, ya gotta up the compression, advance the ignition timing... change spark plugs (hotter spark because premium has a higher flashpoint). You may need to change pistons because if they can't take the hotter spark you'll burn a hole in it... may need a larger cooling system as well, but doubtful. You'll probably have to take it to a speed shop to advance the ignition timing, as it's computer controlled.
If you're looking for an extra 20-60 HP, I'm sure there are SAFER ways - aftermarket bolt-ons or a computer chip will up your HP significantly. What I'm doing with my Mustang is pretty tough, but then again I want pretty tough results, lol.... and if I screw up pop goes the engine. So I would suggest if you just want a little extra zing to stick with bolt-on's and a few reputable computer chips/fuel management systems. Have a reputable speed shop tune your fuel management system for you if you get one. I've seen hundreds of amateurs who were novices at fuel management, went ahead and messed with the numbers anyhow, aaaaannnnddd threw a rod through the block the first time they revved it up. 🙄

amateurs... i see alot of amatuers that shouldnt even be around cars..they just throw stickers all over it and some how end up with 80 hp..lmfao..yeah..im thinkin of supercharging it..since my monte is the 5th gen version(meaning front wheel drive). I want a rwd for the summers tho..cause front wheel is okay..but i like them better during our winters..of about 8inches of snowfall average. There is a computer chip, that totally takes out the speed limiter..means my car can go past the govenor and keep going till it cant anymore. its 200 and does add some hp to the mix as well. DHP sells it. a lot of ppl have said a lot of positive things about this computer chip. it works with the fuel management as well, but is like 50 times better than a Jet Performance chip. Oh yeah, ive seen the rod go through the block b4, when a kid hit nitrous..he blew out his engine completely on me..so i walked back..and picked up..what looked to be a piston..lmfao..his car had to be towed by flatbed..*lmfao even longer* stupid ricers!!