Choking

[Cosmo_ac]

You'd be respecting her wishes, but you'd not be respecting her person. Choking a person simply is not a sign of respect, regardless of consent. Nor will it ever be.

SOme people view tickling the same way. It's all personal prospective.

So as far as you're concerned, two people conspiring murder in private is okay? Two consenting adults fondling a child in private is okay? Two consenting adults plotting an act of terrorism is okay? You did say "anything," didn't you?

Thats a bit of a reach to say the least drew, isn;t it? Also, all your examples given tend to affect more then just the two people in question.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

Exactly......

This is where my previous comments about common sense come in to play.....

Just because two "consenting" idiots don't have a "line" between them as to what is "acceptable", does not mean there is not a common sense "acceptable" mode of behavior to the 99.9 percent of the other folks around.....there are not many limits to consensual adult play, nor perhaps should there be.....but there is a common sense range of acceptability, even to the most extreme players....

the thing about common sense is,as already stated, a subjective thing. Your right that perhaps 99.9 percent of the rest of the people around them feel differently about something, but if the other two people are that 0.01 percent they would view things differently.

Somtimes this is where the law steps in, as i imagine their are few things that would meet the 0.01 percent mark.

 

[drew70]

Did too, did too! 😛

Boing, fwip!

You got me there, darlin. 🙂

 

[Redmage]

Ok, its starting to get real close to someone calling the "bullshit" card on some of these comments.....the line between what is, and what is not acceptable between two consenting adults may be a thin and whispy one, but there is a line, and to state otherwise is rediculous.....

If two idiots decide to make a snuff film....that's a pretty obvious "no no " to most of us here......creating your own personal amputee for your fetish may invite law enforcement scrutiny too, in many quarters....

What's legal and what's moral are two different things. Until quite recently many states had laws banning homosexual sex. That didn't make it wrong, just illegal.

Just because two "consenting" idiots don't have a "line" between them as to what is "acceptable", does not mean there is not a common sense "acceptable" mode of behavior to the 99.9 percent of the other folks around.....there are not many limits to consensual adult play, nor perhaps should there be.....but there is a common sense range of acceptability, even to the most extreme players....

Actually I think that while experienced heavy players MIGHT agree that they, personally, would not participate in certain activities, you'd be surprised by just how small that list is. And I don't think most such people would agree that others should not do such things, only that they themselves would not.

The risks that adults take together are their own business, as far as I'm concerned. I have a firm grasp on the difference between my preferences and what other people are permitted.

 

[Redmage]

I see this now. 🙂 So it has nothing to do with respecting the women... It's just what they're comfortable or uncomfortable with, but they're not saying that because it doesn't sound as noble. Got it.

Exactly. When you think about it, it is ludicrous to say that it's "disrespectful" to give someone what they want. Anyone who pretends that they know what's really best for someone else is automatically disrespecting that person.

The fact that this standard is applied to women only merely shows the basis of the disrespect. But even if it were gender-neutral, it's silly on its face to pretend that this is an act of respect.

 

[BellaRisa]

Why is it that every girl I know right now likes to be choked? Not hurt but they all seem to enjoy having a hand put around their neck and gently squeezed, inducing heavier breathing. Also it's an awesome feeling of control for me.

Who on here enjoys a little strangulation?

Thank you for bringing this up Viper, I find it to be a fascinating topic. Many of my girlfriends absolutely LOVE a bit of this play mixed in with a good D/s scene; I've observed several times, and while it's not my thing it *is* incredibly hot to watch . Personally I'm not a fan; frankly I have nearly no neck to speak of, and when you do try to get a hand around it my head just turtles down into my shoulders while I spasm with giggles (some of you do this on purpose, damn you ). Having said that, a dominant friend of mine occasionally wore a black leather glove and would hold my collar tightly while he spoke to me in a stern manner; it wasn't choking but it did affect my breathing, it was *very* controlling and hot, yes indeed .

If you truly respect a woman and think of her as a responsible adult and sex partner, you'll give her what she wants and needs as safely as possible and do your best to make her happy. It really is that simple. There are too many so-called gentlemen runnin' 'round here who claim to respect women, but in reality only respect those who behave exactly the way they feel she should; her happiness is irrelevant. Heck, I saw a post not too long ago that mentioned buying a cleaning woman cancer sticks just so she would tickle the poster since nobody at home would. Now that's just pitiful.
Light choking that adds oomph to orgasms? Wrong and disrespectful. Slow death via lung cancer? Perfectly acceptable as long as he got what he wanted from her. The mind boggles

Bella

 

[kis123]

Uh....I guess I'm just an old dinosaur when it comes to sex.

When the word "choking" is used, I get a very bad mental picture. I've heard about this used in sex play before, but it's not something I want to try out.

I'm just scratching my head and wondering why women would want this? I don't like the idea of losing my breath on any level, not even tickling much less an attempt to achieve an orgasm. The right man who knows what he's doing knows what to do in order to give my plenty of orgasms without squeezing my neck. I don't really like anyone touching my neck anyway; maybe that's why I don't have an interest.

There are a lot of things that people are into that sometimes downright gross me out! However, I'm not in the place to tell other people what to do in their sex lives. I just hope I don't run into a man who's into this because he'd have to do that with someone else.

 

[jaba]

What's legal and what's moral are two different things. Until quite recently many states had laws banning homosexual sex. That didn't make it wrong, just illegal.

Granted, Redmage.....and many here have acknowledged that "morality" is a relative and subjective thing.

The violent prison culture has what is in the opinion of the convict their own "moral code of conduct" when dealing with "snitches"........ so two adult convicts agree that if they "rat out" another inmate, they should be killed.......should that conduct be deemed "acceptable" behavior by all of us here, because "adult" prisoners deem it "morally" ok? I'm not asking you if you think it is your business, or even if you care.....I'm asking you to make a judgement as to whether you think that "moral code" is wrong or right? Or is that a dilemma to hard to "judge"?

And the two idiots in my example who have no "moral" issue with creating an actual "snuff" scenario....this is "acceptable" activity by those here who think that because it involves consenting adult, its ok? Is consent your only "moral" standard?

Actually I think that while experienced heavy players MIGHT agree that they, personally, would not participate in certain activities, you'd be surprised by just how small that list is. And I don't think most such people would agree that others should not do such things, only that they themselves would not.

Well, as long as there is an acknowledgement that there is in fact a "list" out there somewhere, I will take that concession.....

The risks that adults take together are their own business, as far as I'm concerned. I have a firm grasp on the difference between my preferences and what other people are permitted.

Ok Redmage....I get the "lets be free of all judgement of any consensual activity between consenting adults" theme here, although I find it interesting that there are no qualms by some of these "non judgemental" folks when it comes to "judging" the motivations of those who disagree here with the topic of the thread...while I personally have no problem with Vipers "choke play",why is uncle bill's disagreement with the activity in this thread "judged" by some here to be "false chivalry"? Why can't he and others here have a sincere concern for the saftey of ladies without having their motivations questioned by those who are so extremely adverse to making judgements in other situations?

It seems that what's TRULY "relative", and "subjective" around here, is "judgement".......

 

[BellaRisa]

I get the "lets be free of all judgement of any consensual activity between consenting adults" theme here, although I find it interesting that there are no qualms by some of these "non judgemental" folks when it comes to "judging" the motivations of those who disagree here with the topic of the thread...while I personally have no problem with Vipers "choke play",why is uncle bill's disagreement with the activity in this thread "judged" by some here to be "false chivalry"? Why can he and others here have a sincere concern for the saftey of ladies without having their motivations questioned by those who are so extremely adverse to making judgements in other situations?

It seems that what's TRULY "relative", and "subjective" around here, is "judgement".......

I'll take a stab at this, Jaba.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Unclebill's and other folks' concern for the safety of people they love. That, I applaud, as a daughter, a wife, and especially as a mama .

But when those who find a certain practice distasteful decide that anyone who *does* enjoy that practice has issues and should be stopped and even harmed, as when Unclebill alludes to choking whomever choked one of his daughters...that's when it goes from "not my thing but to each his own", which is fine, to "I'm a better judge of what's sexually ok than you are so you should behave as I think you should." That's not so fine. While as a parent I totally understand where that sentiment comes from, the notion is still really annoying, especially to kinky folks, because as long as we're happy and healthy no one has the right to decide our sexual preferences are wrong. Wrong for them, sure. But not wrong in general. And frankly, the image of some father getting into a snit with his *grown* daughter's partner because he somehow (and I don't wanna know how ) found out that they like a little asphixiation play with their sex is all kinds of ridiculous. Chivalry isn't about deciding what your adult female offspring should be able to do/have done. Unless there are signs of unhappiness we need to keep our morals out of other people's bedrooms and dungeons.

And I have to say this: some of the most stable, loving, happy people on this forum, in long term good relationships, are the ones who end up defending their kinkier notions. That bears contemplation.

You don't gotta like what I like, just don't act as though what I like is wrong when I'm perfectly happy and healthy.

Bella

 

[jaba]

I hear ya, Bella.... 🙂

And while I may be wrong on this, I gotta give uncle bill a "daddy pass" on those comments he made......many people here understand the paternal emotional state from which those comments arose......I can't imagine a "father" alive today who could stomach envisioning his daughter in such a scenario....I don't know, based on some of the sentiments here in this thread, there may be some around who are cool with it......but fathers can get "viceral" when it comes to their daughters....right or wrong, that's just the way it is..... 🙄

 

[jaba]

You don't gotta like what I like, just don't act as though what I like is wrong when I'm perfectly happy and healthy.

Bella

And by "healthy", you mean we can reasonably assume that our most "Mochalicious Moderator" won't be engaging in any "adult consensual snuff" play?.......

that makes jaba "happy"!.... 😛

 

[BellaRisa]

I hear ya, Bella.... 🙂

And while I may be wrong on this, I gotta give uncle bill a "daddy pass" on those comments he made......many people here understand the paternal emotional state from which those comments arose......I can't imagine a "father" alive today who could stomach envisioning his daughter in such a scenario....I don't know, based on some of the sentiments here in this thread, there may be some around who are cool with it......but fathers can get "viceral" when it comes to their daughters....right or wrong, that's just the way it is..... 🙄

You're right, and that goes for ANY sexual acts, not just the kinkier stuff. That's why folks are better off not trying to envision their children having sex; frankly I was kinda surprised it even came up in this thread . 'Protective' daddies, uncles and big brothers truly amuse me when they hoot and holler over whatever they like sexually, conveniently forgetting that the lady they're enjoying was/is somebody's baby girl. That tickling model you fantasize about having strapped to your bed? Some father's little darlin', and he'd gladly keep your eyeballs in a jar for looking at his lil' punkin with such lust. I know, lots of you are putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALA...." right now, but that doesn't make it any less true 😛

Bella

 

[BellaRisa]

And by "healthy", you mean we can reasonably assume that our most "Mochalicious Moderator" won't be engaging in any "adult consensual snuff" play?.......

that makes jaba "happy"!.... 😛

Absolutely. Frankly speaking, my friends have called me the " little kinky prude" for years now because of all the stuff I don't like and won't do 😛 . But having said that, when I say healthy I mean a person who's fully functioning, has a good sense of well being and is at peace with him or herself spiritually and sexually. Different folks have VERY different ways of achieving that good space, and if it means being *safely* choked or spanked or tickled in the bedroom so be it; repressing yourself because someone who isn't you and never has been you doesn't like what you like is just absurd and a waste of potential nirvana

Bella

 

[Redmage]

The violent prison culture has what is in the opinion of the convict their own "moral code of conduct" when dealing with "snitches"........ so two adult convicts agree that if they "rat out" another inmate, they should be killed.......should that conduct be deemed "acceptable" behavior by all of us here, because "adult" prisoners deem it "morally" ok?

Of course not. I'm surprised though that you can't see the difference between between two adults agreeing to something that affects only themselves, and two adults planning something to affect a third who was not party to their discussion. That is the essence of consent, and consent is the critical factor here. You ought to know that even if Drew can't figure it out.

Well, as long as there is an acknowledgement that there is in fact a "list" out there somewhere, I will take that concession.....

A list of things that most people wouldn't do themselves? Sure. A list of things that they'd bar consenting adults from doing? Not so much (outside the churches, anyway).

Ok Redmage....I get the "lets be free of all judgement of any consensual activity between consenting adults" theme here, although I find it interesting that there are no qualms by some of these "non judgemental" folks when it comes to "judging" the motivations of those who disagree here with the topic of the thread...

Yes, many more people object to those who try to inflict their morality on others who didn't consent to it. The reasoning is consistent from start to finish.

 

[jaba]

Of course not. I'm surprised though that you can't see the difference between between two adults agreeing to something that affects only themselves, and two adults planning something to affect a third who was not party to their discussion. That is the essence of consent, and consent is the critical factor here. You ought to know that even if Drew can't figure it out.

A list of things that most people wouldn't do themselves? Sure. A list of things that they'd bar consenting adults from doing? Not so much (outside the churches, anyway).

Yes, many more people object to those who try to inflict their morality on others who didn't consent to it. The reasoning is consistent from start to finish.

Ok Redmage, let me try it this way.....

Two "consenting" adults agree to sex in the back seat of a car in an enclosed garage with the engine running, knowing full well that this may be their last living act....

Or, two "consenting adults" consent" to a "snuff" scenario....

Again, I'm not asking you if you care about what the two folks are doing, or "if its your business what they do", or if you would or would not engage in the act your self......and let's forget about leaning on the "crutch" of the "legality" of the act.....

Would your jaw fall off if you made the admission that you found such consensual adult activity "unacceptable", assuming you do find to be so? Or do you honestly hold no opinion as to the acceptability of that, or any, "consensual adult" behavior?

This is what I find fascinating.....the inability by some here to "judge" ANY adult consensual activity, no matter how abhorant (and I know, "abhorance" is "relative" )......why not? For fear of what? Being "shudder" "judged yourself by someone?....

 

[BellaRisa]

Ok Redmage, let me try it this way.....

Two "consenting" adults agree to sex in the back seat of a car in an enclosed garage with the engine running, knowing full well that this may be their last living act....

Or, two "consenting adults" consent" to a "snuff" scenario....

Again, I'm not asking you if you care about what the two folks are doing, or "if its your business what they do", or if you would or would not engage in the act your self......and let's forget about leaning on the "crutch" of the "legality" of the act.....

Would your jaw fall off if you made the admission that you found such consensual adult activity "unacceptable", assuming you do find to be so? Or do you honestly hold no opinion as to the acceptability of that, or any, "consensual adult" behavior?

This is what I find fascinating.....the inability by some here to "judge" ANY adult consensual activity, no matter how abhorant (and I know, "abhorance" is "relative" )......why not? For fear of what? Being "shudder" "judged yourself by someone?....

I know you were talking to Redmage, but I have an insight on this. I get where you're coming from; sometimes it seems as though folks like Redmage and myself have zero opinion on things that seem absolutely heinous, because we're big on to each his own, live and let live, judge not lest ye be smacked, etc. I can't fully speak for others, but I personally don't mean to imply that nothing is too dangerous or just plain icky for me. Like I've said, they call me the kinky prude; there's all kinds of stuff that makes me want to take 10 showers and hide under the bed . But while something may deeply disturb me, it may be exactly what someone else needs for their well-being, just as I need what I need and my needs may creep them out. And I don't feel the right to judge their desires because, again, I'm not them. I don't understand a LOT of what others want to do, especially activities that end in death 🙁 . I'm just saying that I don't have to approve of something to support another's right to do it. I'm fine with saying that it's unacceptable for *me*, I just don't care to say it's wrong for everyone. Does that make sense?

Bella

 

[jaba]

I know you were talking to Redmage, but I have an insight on this. I get where you're coming from; sometimes it seems as though folks like Redmage and myself have zero opinion on things that seem absolutely heinous, because we're big on to each his own, live and let live, judge not lest ye be smacked, etc. I can't fully speak for others, but I personally don't mean to imply that nothing is too dangerous or just plain icky for me. Like I've said, they call me the kinky prude; there's all kinds of stuff that makes me want to take 10 showers and hide under the bed . But while something may deeply disturb me, it may be exactly what someone else needs for their well-being, just as I need what I need and my needs may creep them out. And I don't feel the right to judge their desires because, again, I'm not them. I don't understand a LOT of what others want to do, especially activities that end in death 🙁 . I'm just saying that I don't have to approve of something to support another's right to do it. I'm fine with saying that it's unacceptable for *me*, I just don't care to say it's wrong for everyone. Does that make sense?

Bella

Thanks for your response, Bella.....

I'm digesting your response.....believe me, I'm trying to understand this....

 

[Redmage]

Ok Redmage, let me try it this way.....

Two "consenting" adults agree to sex in the back seat of a car in an enclosed garage with the engine running, knowing full well that this may be their last living act....

Or, two "consenting adults" consent" to a "snuff" scenario....

Again, I'm not asking you if you care about what the two folks are doing, or "if its your business what they do", or if you would or would not engage in the act your self......and let's forget about leaning on the "crutch" of the "legality" of the act.....

Would your jaw fall off if you made the admission that you found such consensual adult activity "unacceptable", assuming you do find to be so? Or do you honestly hold no opinion as to the acceptability of that, or any, "consensual adult" behavior?

I don't think that "acceptability" has any legitimate meaning except as applied to the standards by which I judge my own behavior, or to behavior that affects people who haven't volunteered for it. So if you're asking if I'd find something like that acceptable for myself, then no. If you're asking whether I think they should be allowed to do that, then yes, because in that case "acceptability" does not apply in any legitimate sense.

 

[jaba]

I don't think that "acceptability" has any legitimate meaning except as applied to the standards by which I judge my own behavior, or to behavior that affects people who haven't volunteered for it. So if you're asking if I'd find something like that acceptable for myself, then no. If you're asking whether I think they should be allowed to do that, then yes, because in that case "acceptability" does not apply in any legitimate sense.

Ok Redmage..... thanks.....

Its just that I have no qualms about stating that the behavior of two adults who consent to kill each other during a sex act is "unacceptable", both for me, and for others....I mean we're not talking about "choke play", or even mutilation or amputation, if two consenting adults agree to such "play".....if folks agree to that activity, I guess I can deem that "acceptable".....

But when we're talking about somebody intentionally dying, or intentionally being killed during "play", its rather easy for me to render opinion and "judgement" against such activity.....and I find it difficult to understand the inability of others to do the same.....

But that's my own hang up, I guess....

 

[BrightEyes1082]

Why is it that every girl I know right now likes to be choked? Not hurt but they all seem to enjoy having a hand put around their neck and gently squeezed, inducing heavier breathing. Also it's an awesome feeling of control for me.

Who on here enjoys a little strangulation?

Very hot indeed. I enjoy it very much, although my hubby is extremely cautious and hesitant about indulging me on that one.

 

[drew70]

There are so many activities, in and out of the bedroom, that can end badly. Just because death is a possible outcome, should it be considered wrong? Skydiving. Kayaking. Mountain climbing. SCUBA diving. These are all activities that people enjoy and that can easily end up dead if they do anything wrong... Actually, that's part of the thrill. Are they all wrong in your eyes?

LOL. I knew this would come up. It's the same ridiculous attempt at rationalization that came up last year. (You really ought to read the Tickling vs Pain thread.) Death is possible with everything we do. The sports you mention do have risks as does driving a car on a highway. That's way different from applying pressure on somebody's throat in a diliberate attempt to asphyxiate them. With sports, risk is something that's tolerated. With choking, risk is deliberately invoked.

If a woman asks for this, then it's okay. Maybe not with you, but you shouldn't try to push this back on her by saying it's disrespectful. It's clearly your decision and it has nothing to do with what she wants. More than anything else you're being disrespectful by not believing a woman can know her own boundaries.

A quick scan of this thread will show I've neither said nor implied any such thing. Many people, both men and women, can and do know their own boundaries. But there is a lot more to the concept of respect than simply giving somebody anything for which they ask.

So, if a woman wanted you to talk dirty to her, you wouldn't do that either because the naughty words are disrespectful?

Talk is cheap. And "dirty" is rather non-specific. I'd have to have an idea of the specific dialogue she had in mind. If she wanted me to say, "I wanna fuck your brains out, bitch," I might go along. If she wanted me hurl racial epithets at her, I'd politely refuse.

Huh?

You heard me.

That's just fucking stupid. Are you being intentionally dense? Two adults can do what they want to with each other **so long as they aren't hurting anyone else**. I was **very** clear about that. Your examples here all have victims.

And the "as long as" list has begun, exactly as I said it would. Before you had only one stipulation. Now you have two. People can do what ever they want "as long as"

1) it's consentual

2) it doesn't hurt anybody else

What about the people plotting murder or international terrorism? They aren't hurting anybody by simply talking about it. That okay with you?

 

[Cosmo_ac]

What about the people plotting murder or international terrorism? They aren't hurting anybody by simply talking about it. That okay with you?

Why wouldn;t it be? I mean, it does seem like it would be a little wierd to talk about things like that to turn each other on, but hey, if thats what floats their boat.

 

[unclebill]

I'll take a stab at this, Jaba.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Unclebill's and other folks' concern for the safety of people they love. That, I applaud, as a daughter, a wife, and especially as a mama .

But when those who find a certain practice distasteful decide that anyone who *does* enjoy that practice has issues and should be stopped and even harmed, as when Unclebill alludes to choking whomever choked one of his daughters...that's when it goes from "not my thing but to each his own", which is fine, to "I'm a better judge of what's sexually ok than you are so you should behave as I think you should." That's not so fine. While as a parent I totally understand where that sentiment comes from, the notion is still really annoying, especially to kinky folks, because as long as we're happy and healthy no one has the right to decide our sexual preferences are wrong. Wrong for them, sure. But not wrong in general. And frankly, the image of some father getting into a snit with his *grown* daughter's partner because he somehow (and I don't wanna know how ) found out that they like a little asphixiation play with their sex is all kinds of ridiculous. Chivalry isn't about deciding what your adult female offspring should be able to do/have done. Unless there are signs of unhappiness we need to keep our morals out of other people's bedrooms and dungeons.

And I have to say this: some of the most stable, loving, happy people on this forum, in long term good relationships, are the ones who end up defending their kinkier notions. That bears contemplation.

You don't gotta like what I like, just don't act as though what I like is wrong when I'm perfectly happy and healthy.

Bella

Thats a fine hatchet job of judging me, Bella. I`m entitled to my opinion, and this has nothing to do with chivalry. So many young girls nowadays have such a low self esteem that they will do almost anything to please a guy. And don`t tell me I`m wrong, because I coached a girls club sports team for many years, so I speak with authority. If choking is what they really want, then by all means choke away. But what if its what HE wants??? Steph said it earlier that all kinds of bad things can happen including death over this type of behaviour. Try spending a little less time polishing your moderators badge, and understand there are two sides to this subject.

 

[Majestic]

Just a short interlude to this thread. BELLARISA is my new idol!!!! Ok....carry on.

 

[Redmage]

I believe in "live and let live...".

I also has an "as long as" suffix to that. It includes as long as it's not against the law. And the exception to that rule includes laws that are considered ridiculous by the majority of the population due to the fact that they are quite outdated for today's society. The law against homosexual sex would be included here.

So laws against gays were OK as long as most people (presumably not the gays) thought they were OK?