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Constructive Advice Sought Please
- Thread starter Mitchell
- Start date
Heres the way I see it. From some of the replies on here, I'm sure many wont agree with me.
Children do not ask to be born. Parents have a responsibility to provide unconditional love. Being a parent is the most important job in the world, from the day the child is born, until the day the parent dies.
As most of the forum knows, my mom has cancer. She is being treated in NJ for her cancer, which necessitates a seven hour round trip every week, for her to get treatment. On Tuesday, during her first treatment, she said to me: "Mitch, if seeing me get treated, and hearing news from the doctors gets you too upset, I'll go myself". No. I have to be there for her, for any news, good, or God forbid, bad. She has earned that from me, as she has stood by me, my whole life.
Parents stand behind children who are drug addicts, criminals, etc. I was none of those. My only "crime" was, after a point, not being able to put up with the destructiveness of my father, his brother, his mother, and later, my father's wife. I put up with the abuse of my grandmother, uncle, and father, for years. My father's words and actions were, and are: "Unless you love, and see, who I tell you to love, and see, I will punish you, and not love you". That is bullshit, and not the actions of a parent. Children owe parents NOTHING. I dont owe him to love his family, or even him.
The polar opposites in my parents are stunning.
I'm probably just going to end up sending him a simple e-card, and e-mail, for his bday. What happens after that, will have to be seen.
Mitch
Even now, when discussing his wife, my father will say (In regard to me seeing her). "It's not a "condition",. but it would be "nice". He's so delusional. Who can make seeing their wife a "condition" for their 41 year old son? A lot of things would have been "nice". It would have been "nice" if he had ironed out his relationship with me, before marrying the amoral wench he's married to, or if he defended me, against his mother and brother destroying our relationship. He did none of those things, so he is not one to talk about "nice".
Children do not ask to be born. Parents have a responsibility to provide unconditional love. Being a parent is the most important job in the world, from the day the child is born, until the day the parent dies.
As most of the forum knows, my mom has cancer. She is being treated in NJ for her cancer, which necessitates a seven hour round trip every week, for her to get treatment. On Tuesday, during her first treatment, she said to me: "Mitch, if seeing me get treated, and hearing news from the doctors gets you too upset, I'll go myself". No. I have to be there for her, for any news, good, or God forbid, bad. She has earned that from me, as she has stood by me, my whole life.
Parents stand behind children who are drug addicts, criminals, etc. I was none of those. My only "crime" was, after a point, not being able to put up with the destructiveness of my father, his brother, his mother, and later, my father's wife. I put up with the abuse of my grandmother, uncle, and father, for years. My father's words and actions were, and are: "Unless you love, and see, who I tell you to love, and see, I will punish you, and not love you". That is bullshit, and not the actions of a parent. Children owe parents NOTHING. I dont owe him to love his family, or even him.
The polar opposites in my parents are stunning.
I'm probably just going to end up sending him a simple e-card, and e-mail, for his bday. What happens after that, will have to be seen.
Mitch
Even now, when discussing his wife, my father will say (In regard to me seeing her). "It's not a "condition",. but it would be "nice". He's so delusional. Who can make seeing their wife a "condition" for their 41 year old son? A lot of things would have been "nice". It would have been "nice" if he had ironed out his relationship with me, before marrying the amoral wench he's married to, or if he defended me, against his mother and brother destroying our relationship. He did none of those things, so he is not one to talk about "nice".
Dr Vollin, first, my apologies. I didnt read your message until just now, because I was responding to others.
Thank you for your advice. It was constructive, and it makes sense. What you suggested, is probably what I will end up doing.
Mitch
Thank you for your advice. It was constructive, and it makes sense. What you suggested, is probably what I will end up doing.
Mitch
Aimee
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no. your OP is what you always post.
(even though you said you were "done" talking about your daddy on here)
no where does it say..."what would you do if you were in my shoes?"
you, once again, talk about what your dad has done to you, and why you just have no idea what you should do about him and his evilness.
i honestly don't get it, mitch. i don't.
and now you just totally posted something that has NOTHING to do with your OP...talking about how your dad is treating you like shit bc he can only love you if he controls you and blah blah blah.
what does that have to do with YOU sending him a birthday email or whatnot?
we don't need the background story.
you've decided you are going to email him on his birthday? fabulous. congrats. go for it.
we don't need to know anything else.
i'm not trolling.
i'm simply informing you that THIS, at this point, is ridiculous, and YOU need to start figuring this shit out on your own.
if you need to start all your thread out with "I want to make 100% clear before I post this thread, that I am not doing so to "whine" about my father, as some of the usual suspects have claimed, on, and on, in threads, for the past couple of months. A situation is going to present itself this weekend, I'm torn about what to do, and would really appreciate some constructive advice. " then maybe you should...uhh...STOP posting about your dad.
Aimee, once again, you dont get it. The fact that he dropped out on me, CURRENTLY, and isnt talking to me, at the present time, is why I'm having the debate about how to acknowledge him. I just said the other things to make a point.
Whether or not I acknowledge him on Saturday, doesnt have to do with whether he fucked me over last year or ten years ago, it is what he is doing NOW.
There's no point in arguing with you. You're not in my shoes, so you can't see it from my perspective.
Mitch
Whether or not I acknowledge him on Saturday, doesnt have to do with whether he fucked me over last year or ten years ago, it is what he is doing NOW.
There's no point in arguing with you. You're not in my shoes, so you can't see it from my perspective.
Mitch
Aimee
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that is EXACTLY my point.
you need to make the decisions about your father on YOUR OWN.
because we are not in your shoes and the stuff going on with you are your dad is P E R S O N A L.
so whether you want to admit it or not, in each of these threads you make, you aren't looking for opinions and advice...you are strictly looking for what you want to hear.
end of story.
Fire_Sprite
2nd Level Red Feather
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- Mar 4, 2005
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Mitch, I think you hate your father. Like, really hate him.
Based on the many updates the forum's gotten on your dealings with your father, it seems like whenever you open the line of communication to him you keep things cordial for a while until two decades of repressed anger explodes out of you and he leaves when weathering the storm doesn't seem worth it. This cycle keeps repeating and it serves no purpose other than compounding your own unexpressed rage.
I often wondered why you keep posting on the forum about every minor development that takes place between you and him. You make a point to outline your problems with him in every thread, throw snide insults at him and his family, and actually become more expressive when people here disagree with you.
Some people have claimed you love drama, sympathy, or have a persecution complex but now I think you're actually using the forum as a stand in for your father. I know that sounds a little Psych 101, but its the only explanation I have for your current behavior.
You want to know whether or not to send your father a birthday greeting, this is not a complicated problem. And I think the problem is that its not complicated, the solutions are too simple. If you simply avoid sending him the email then you don't get to pick at the wound that's been festering for 20 years, but if do just send a birthday greeting you haven't nearly expressed your rage enough. So what do you do? You make a thread about it. When people post non-hostile encouragement you make brief posts thanking them for their insight. Whenever anyone actually disagrees with you however, you jump on the chance to lambaste them for not understanding you and make long posts explicitly outlining how your father is in the wrong. You do this all the time, almost like you've just been waiting for the chance to get pissed off.
You like the attention and the confrontation because it lets you say to the forum exactly what you wish you could say to your father. A birthday greeting is a birthday greeting, but if you make a long argumentative thread about it then send the email you were always going to send anyway, even something as innocuous as an E-card can be an expression of rage and frustration.
My simple advice about your relationship with your father, let it go. You're never going to get close enough to your father to make him understand your pain, whether by empathy or revenge. Using the forum as an outlet for your anger is self destructive and pointless. Take your anger, bottle it up, and starve it until it dies. Its not about whats feels better or what you deserve its about what you have to do to move on.
Based on the many updates the forum's gotten on your dealings with your father, it seems like whenever you open the line of communication to him you keep things cordial for a while until two decades of repressed anger explodes out of you and he leaves when weathering the storm doesn't seem worth it. This cycle keeps repeating and it serves no purpose other than compounding your own unexpressed rage.
I often wondered why you keep posting on the forum about every minor development that takes place between you and him. You make a point to outline your problems with him in every thread, throw snide insults at him and his family, and actually become more expressive when people here disagree with you.
Some people have claimed you love drama, sympathy, or have a persecution complex but now I think you're actually using the forum as a stand in for your father. I know that sounds a little Psych 101, but its the only explanation I have for your current behavior.
You want to know whether or not to send your father a birthday greeting, this is not a complicated problem. And I think the problem is that its not complicated, the solutions are too simple. If you simply avoid sending him the email then you don't get to pick at the wound that's been festering for 20 years, but if do just send a birthday greeting you haven't nearly expressed your rage enough. So what do you do? You make a thread about it. When people post non-hostile encouragement you make brief posts thanking them for their insight. Whenever anyone actually disagrees with you however, you jump on the chance to lambaste them for not understanding you and make long posts explicitly outlining how your father is in the wrong. You do this all the time, almost like you've just been waiting for the chance to get pissed off.
You like the attention and the confrontation because it lets you say to the forum exactly what you wish you could say to your father. A birthday greeting is a birthday greeting, but if you make a long argumentative thread about it then send the email you were always going to send anyway, even something as innocuous as an E-card can be an expression of rage and frustration.
My simple advice about your relationship with your father, let it go. You're never going to get close enough to your father to make him understand your pain, whether by empathy or revenge. Using the forum as an outlet for your anger is self destructive and pointless. Take your anger, bottle it up, and starve it until it dies. Its not about whats feels better or what you deserve its about what you have to do to move on.
Ah, no, Aimee. I'm not looking for "What I want to hear". Again, you dont get it. If I read a thread such as this, my reply would be something like this:
"If I was in your shoes, and my father had stopped talking to me, but yet, had acknowledged me on my birthday... I would.. if it was his birthday", and then just to say simply whether that poster, in their own personal opinion, would acknowledge that person or not. It doesnt have to turn into a whole "You said you werent going to talk about your daddy", or "We cant say that, because we arent in your shoes". It is just a simple: "I would do this.. if I was in that situation...PERIOD!
Debating this with you is pointless, so I'm not going to.. Think what you wish. I don't care.
Mitch
"If I was in your shoes, and my father had stopped talking to me, but yet, had acknowledged me on my birthday... I would.. if it was his birthday", and then just to say simply whether that poster, in their own personal opinion, would acknowledge that person or not. It doesnt have to turn into a whole "You said you werent going to talk about your daddy", or "We cant say that, because we arent in your shoes". It is just a simple: "I would do this.. if I was in that situation...PERIOD!
Debating this with you is pointless, so I'm not going to.. Think what you wish. I don't care.
Mitch
Actually, Fire, you dont get it either. Many times, it's HIM that wont let it go. I will go through periods, of not talking to him, for a year, two, however long, and then, because he's getting pressure from his friends, and it doesnt look good, he will send me a "I think about you all the time, and I want to meet you" card, and email, like he did in January 2009 on my birthday, which is what started this whole thing in the first place. Many years, when I'm not talking to him, I ignore his birthdays, and Father's Day. When I talk to him, I acknowledge him, when I dont, I ignore.
There is one thing that makes this year different. One, it is a milestone birthday. Two, I've had communication with him in the recent past. THAT is what makes it difficult. If I had been estranged from him.. for.. a year.. I would ignore it, simple. The fact that I havent, is what is causing me to question it.
Again, my reaction if someone had made such a thread, would have been different, but that is just me.
Mitch
There is one thing that makes this year different. One, it is a milestone birthday. Two, I've had communication with him in the recent past. THAT is what makes it difficult. If I had been estranged from him.. for.. a year.. I would ignore it, simple. The fact that I havent, is what is causing me to question it.
Again, my reaction if someone had made such a thread, would have been different, but that is just me.
Mitch
Aimee
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mitch, i never once said i get it.
i said the EXACT opposite...if you actually read my post to you.
but of course, you have very selective reading, don't you?
I DON'T GET IT.
i don't get why you keep posting about your father when you get the SAME RESULTS every time and you SAY THE SAME THINGS every time.
i. do. not. get. it.
and that's nice what youuuu would have said...
but i'm NOT you, and i'll say what i want on a public tickling forum, k? k.
sorry if you don't like what's being said...but you'd think that would spark a little lightbulb in your brain: "oh, maybe i shouldn't contradict myself on every post and get angry and defensive in a snap of a finger"
either way... fire sprite pretty much just nailed it.
although, i'm pretty sure in a couple of days you'll have another thread about your dad.
and i thought there was no point in arguing with me...
...yet you still are!
i believe you do give a damn.
Aimee, I'd love to say what I want to on a public tickling forum. Unfortunately for me, your posts arent worth my being banned for.
There will be no reason for me to have a thread about him "in a couple of days", because his bday is Saturday, and whatever I do will be done and over with then.
From now on, my best reply to anything you post should be just that "Whatever". That's basically all it merits.
Mitch
There will be no reason for me to have a thread about him "in a couple of days", because his bday is Saturday, and whatever I do will be done and over with then.
From now on, my best reply to anything you post should be just that "Whatever". That's basically all it merits.
Mitch
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Awesome assessment of the situation. And this comes from someone who was treated pretty badly (physical violence) by his father....so (I do get it). Out grow this phase dude. It's totally holding you back from what you could be.
DON"T LET YOUR FATHER DEFINE YOUR LIFE. That money and this displaced anger is him owning you. How long will you let this go on? He's 70 or so right? How many years does he have left to blame your problems on?
Good luck. I have faith that it'll click soon. I'll echo the sage advice of Fire Sprite "Do what you have to do to move on."
GQ
This post has been removed by Myriads,
Reason:
Flame baiting.
If you keep entering threads with the intent to start fights and derail them, you will be banned. Stop it. You have been warned about taking threads off topic before. This is your final warning. ~Myriads
Reason:
Flame baiting.
If you keep entering threads with the intent to start fights and derail them, you will be banned. Stop it. You have been warned about taking threads off topic before. This is your final warning. ~Myriads
Last edited:
Leo tickles
2nd Level Orange Feather
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2004
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- 2,394
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Fire Sprite, you pointed out exactly what I used to do with MY dad.
I don't think that's what's happening here, I think Mitch is honestly conflicted. Be a good person? Or ignore him?
Either way, shit isn't gonna change. Do the right thing. You know he won't, and two wrongs don't make a right.
I don't think that's what's happening here, I think Mitch is honestly conflicted. Be a good person? Or ignore him?
Either way, shit isn't gonna change. Do the right thing. You know he won't, and two wrongs don't make a right.
Leo is right. I am conflicted.
GQ, the "outgrow this phase", is, to me, condescending, and sounds like I'm being immature. Let me tell you, okay, that is a completely misguided view of the situation. My father did a LOT of damage to my life FOR YEARS that prevented me from moving forward. I know a girl who is older than me, and a multimillionaire, and she STILL suffers from the emotional abuse in her childhood. This is from parents who changed her life, and gave her the money to start the business that made her the wealthy woman she is today. In spite of that, they were, and are, very emotionally abusive people, and she still suffers from the emotional abuse they have inflicted on her. Even at age 45, and as blessed as she is, I dont think she has "outgrown the phase", as you say, either.
The question began as a simple question, and, like so many threads I have posted, has turned into a circus. I presented the facts. He isnt talking to me, and dropped out of my life. Yet, he has a milestone occasion coming up, and acknowledges my birthdays. Do I acknowledge it, or not? Period! A lot of the other shit, is, to me,. unneeded.
Babbles, thanks for defending me. Based on the replies, there are only a few in this thread who understand what I'm going through. To those, I appreciate their points of view.
Mitch
GQ, the "outgrow this phase", is, to me, condescending, and sounds like I'm being immature. Let me tell you, okay, that is a completely misguided view of the situation. My father did a LOT of damage to my life FOR YEARS that prevented me from moving forward. I know a girl who is older than me, and a multimillionaire, and she STILL suffers from the emotional abuse in her childhood. This is from parents who changed her life, and gave her the money to start the business that made her the wealthy woman she is today. In spite of that, they were, and are, very emotionally abusive people, and she still suffers from the emotional abuse they have inflicted on her. Even at age 45, and as blessed as she is, I dont think she has "outgrown the phase", as you say, either.
The question began as a simple question, and, like so many threads I have posted, has turned into a circus. I presented the facts. He isnt talking to me, and dropped out of my life. Yet, he has a milestone occasion coming up, and acknowledges my birthdays. Do I acknowledge it, or not? Period! A lot of the other shit, is, to me,. unneeded.
Babbles, thanks for defending me. Based on the replies, there are only a few in this thread who understand what I'm going through. To those, I appreciate their points of view.
Mitch
Leo tickles
2nd Level Orange Feather
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You... have to... should... appreciate everybody's point of view.
Half of the shit I know I learned from people who just meant to insult me, but instead, ended up teaching valuable things to me. Just read between the lines. Or if you suck at that, imagine what you want to see there, and read into your own emotions that way. Trust me, it's a good eye opener. 🙂
Anyways, I say go for it. If for no other reason, you'll have a clean conscience when he dies.
Half of the shit I know I learned from people who just meant to insult me, but instead, ended up teaching valuable things to me. Just read between the lines. Or if you suck at that, imagine what you want to see there, and read into your own emotions that way. Trust me, it's a good eye opener. 🙂
Anyways, I say go for it. If for no other reason, you'll have a clean conscience when he dies.
Bohemianne
Verified
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- May 11, 2007
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Question: Are you sure you don't need a professional to help you get through this soundly?
This place is designed for discussing ideas and some personal issues. But the repetitive posts you do is a symptom of an obvious trauma and an obvious need for catharsis. Are you sure this forum is helping you truly? Then why is it not alleviating your pain a bit?
No one is asking you to stop posting, but do consider a second help. After you do this, come back and update us. Let us see improvement in you.
Yes. You are free to use this forum for the same effect, but in this place, you can't expect to get the exact answer you want. The same way, you can't drive anyone away just as that.
Leo, I'm sorry, but I disagree, my friend. I dont feel I "have to" or "should" appreciate "everyone's" point of view. As with everything, it depends on HOW it is presented.
While this may be a "public forum", and while they or the mods may feel they have a "right" to do it, I don't appreciate posts such as the ones that say
"You whine about your father"
or
"You say the same thing, over and over again".
What the fuck is "constructive" about those posts? They are said to belittle the person who posted them, in what is a significant situation in their lives, and serve no purpose, other than to put someone down.
Constructive would be:
"Mitch, it might be a good idea to acknowledge his birthday, because it is a milestone birthday, and because he acknowledges you for your birthday. Your father might appreciate your acknowledgement, and it might serve to open up positive dialouge between the two of you".
THAT is well meaning, and sincere, and what I would say, if someone else on the forum, was in this situation. The other stuff, is just said as a put down, and serves no constructive purpose, in my view.
Mitch
While this may be a "public forum", and while they or the mods may feel they have a "right" to do it, I don't appreciate posts such as the ones that say
"You whine about your father"
or
"You say the same thing, over and over again".
What the fuck is "constructive" about those posts? They are said to belittle the person who posted them, in what is a significant situation in their lives, and serve no purpose, other than to put someone down.
Constructive would be:
"Mitch, it might be a good idea to acknowledge his birthday, because it is a milestone birthday, and because he acknowledges you for your birthday. Your father might appreciate your acknowledgement, and it might serve to open up positive dialouge between the two of you".
THAT is well meaning, and sincere, and what I would say, if someone else on the forum, was in this situation. The other stuff, is just said as a put down, and serves no constructive purpose, in my view.
Mitch
Mitch, I believe you to be a genuinely kind-hearted human being. That is evident in the way that you offer support to other folks here on the forum when they need it. Having said that, I do wish you could find the strength to live your life without your father dominating your thoughts. I know I'm not in your shoes, so I'm not saying it's easy, but you deserve your happiness. Don't let him take that from you.
I dont expect to get the "exact answer I want", Once again, there is a difference between constructive, and destructive.
As for professional help, that is a personal decision that I'd have to make, which I certainly would not post on the forum. I've been through years in the past. I can say that sometimes it helps, and sometimes not. It often depends on the situation, the therapist, and how committed the patient is to helping themselves.
Mitch
As for professional help, that is a personal decision that I'd have to make, which I certainly would not post on the forum. I've been through years in the past. I can say that sometimes it helps, and sometimes not. It often depends on the situation, the therapist, and how committed the patient is to helping themselves.
Mitch
Adam, thank you for your insight. I appreciate it. I try to be kind hearted and supportive.
I completely understand what you said about living my life without my father dominating my thoughts. At certain times of my life, such has not been difficult. For years, I went to college, worked, etc, and barely thought about him.
This year, has been more difficult, because I reconciled with him, and trusted him, and then, as you know, my mom got cancer. There are unresolved issues emotionally, and financially. To tell you the truth, I feel had, and stung, and I wish he had stayed the hell away from me, in 2009. I blame myself for letting him back into my life, even though my mom said that she doesnt feel I'm to blame. My reconcilation with him, was partially responsible for blowing up a situation that I wanted to work out, personally, with someone who used to be very important to me. I"m over that now. Yet, the more that happens with him, the more I realize that I made the mistake of my life, by going back with him.
This weekend will pass, and this thread will go away. After that, hopefully, I can start to calm down, and the apparent pattern of him being absent from my life, will continue.
Mitch
I completely understand what you said about living my life without my father dominating my thoughts. At certain times of my life, such has not been difficult. For years, I went to college, worked, etc, and barely thought about him.
This year, has been more difficult, because I reconciled with him, and trusted him, and then, as you know, my mom got cancer. There are unresolved issues emotionally, and financially. To tell you the truth, I feel had, and stung, and I wish he had stayed the hell away from me, in 2009. I blame myself for letting him back into my life, even though my mom said that she doesnt feel I'm to blame. My reconcilation with him, was partially responsible for blowing up a situation that I wanted to work out, personally, with someone who used to be very important to me. I"m over that now. Yet, the more that happens with him, the more I realize that I made the mistake of my life, by going back with him.
This weekend will pass, and this thread will go away. After that, hopefully, I can start to calm down, and the apparent pattern of him being absent from my life, will continue.
Mitch
Bohemianne
Verified
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Okay. This is acceptable.
I am leaving the thread now.
-o0o-
Send a card to your dad if it will make you feel happy. I suggest cook or set a a dinner. I did this before. It's quite effective.
