Cosby's Rant

[venray]

Many a responsible adult has been stopped by the police and questioned for no apparent reason here in the states , leaf.

Many more have been passed by by taxi's and avoided by people walking down city streets just because of the color of their skin or the clothes they are wearing. It IS a problem here.

Responsible adults should be treated as such no matter what they look like.

We have come a long way, but we have a longer way to go....


Ray

 

[JoBelle]

I think Cosby had more of a point to make than language or the actual events taking place.

I think his point was intended to fire at IMAGE. Think about it. Any kid, whatever skin color, height, weight, or any other phycial appearance DOES have the ability to "be a doctor." Any young person can BE anything. There are many, unfortunately, who are BEING loud, disrespectful, and uneducated, (etc.) and are happy about it. They aren't concerned with their image. They think they are entitled, for example, to receive respect without showing it. They are entitled to whatever they damn well please. The problem? It's message the image sends out. No one wants a doctor or lawyer who behaves in that manner. Can you see a lawyer chatting up "street language" in the courtroom? Nope. Wouldn't happen. Could you imagine being diagnosed with cancer by someone not willing to go the effort to speak proper grammar? Never!


Until the adults in the world make a change, the children will never understand importance. It's that old saying, a child lives what they are taught. There's another saying, "It takes a village to raise a child." BOTH are true. At the rate we're going, the next generation will be sorely lacking in professionals and highly staffed in blue collared workers who think hip-hop/rap/MTV, Old Navy and FUBU are classics. I do have to add in that there is just as much of a problem with the non-MTVers. If you've ever seen a truckload of young white boys racing down the road blaring country music with a cooler of beer and nascar stickers in the back window, you'll see a group of idiots that will make the nearest dairy farmer or cattle breeder cringe. I think I'm at least happier with the least bad of those two groups being the thing that too many people feel is "cool."

BLECH! this is why I worked my ass off going to college so I could send my kid to private school while I pay back my student loans! At least I'll give MINE some guidance.

Lastly, until people start associating behvaiors with image, there will NEVER be a change. It's tough and may not be fair, but when all you have to go on is a brief first impression, that's what will get you in the door or out of it. I'd like to think we're more highly evolved than that, but we're not. For a few thousand years, people have associated appearances and bahaviors with the inside workings of a person. It's not going to change anytime soon. So, like my sig line says...stop shouting no fair! You wear the labels, you reap the "rewards."
Jo, wondering how folks live with themselves sometimes.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Aw, fiddle, Cosby's been saying this kind of stuff for decades, just not this pointedly. Cosby, although "different" came up assimilated through the predominant (ie, white European) culture during segregation - when it was a lot harder then - while still being himself and keeping his own flavor. And a lot of people at the National Urban League agree with him in principal if not in the actual worded criticisms. I remember Jocelyne Elders saying in 2002 "We have kids today that have shoes that light up when they walk and minds that go dark when they speak".

If I hear a minority pull up besids me playing their favorite song "Thump, THUMP THUMP, mutha f**kaa, thump, thump," - that's the neighborhood I live in, there's not a lot of Slayer around here - that's when I role my window down and crank up my Blink 182 or Ann Margaret-during-her-Vegas-years CDs. It's fun!

 

[kis123]

Predictable, bleeding-heart nonsense. Sorry, I don't buy it. If you're a responsible adult, it isn't a problem. If you're the opposite, no matter what your race, you're gonna face the consequences. Period.

If you're white, you can afford to have this high and mighty opinion. It's yours to have, but since I've been thorough this personally as well as my son, your opinion is just that, an opinion. And you know what those are like because everyone has one!!!

And by the way, I was the responsible adult. The irresponsible party was white he lied to the cops and they chose to believe him over me. I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! It's a black thing and you simply just don't understand!

 

[kis123]

Many a responsible adult has been stopped by the police and questioned for no apparent reason here in the states , leaf.

Many more have been passed by by taxi's and avoided by people walking down city streets just because of the color of their skin or the clothes they are wearing. It IS a problem here.

Responsible adults should be treated as such no matter what they look like.

We have come a long way, but we have a longer way to go....


Ray

Thank you Ray! People shouldn't make comments on things they have no experience in. It makes them look bad. My autistic black son went to a white community to go to the library and shop at the mall (with money in his pockets) when he was seventeen. I got a call from the cops because some cashier claimed he looked like he wasn't from the area. I had to pick him up from the police department because someone didn't like the way he looked. He wasn't charged with anything. Now leaf, explain to me what justified this behavior from the cops? Did he steal something? NO! Did he abuse anyone? NO! What did he do wrong considering most kids his age are buying drugs, drinking, and screwing around? Absolutely nothing wrong, but was treated like a criminal because he was a black young man in a white neighborhood. Let's hear your bleeding heart speech again!

I told him that although he should be free to go anywhere he wanted, but ignorant people share this world with us who are racist and prejudice. They have no idea of who other races are except for what they see on tv. There are plenty of people of color (not just black folks) who are doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, and businesspeople with legitimate and successful jobs. Ask them how many times the cops stopped them because they were driving a BMW through a white neighborhood? I bet most if not all of them especially if they were male. Ask Danny Glover why he had to sue a NY cab company because the cabs wouldn't stop to pick him up? He can buy a cab company with his money!

I'm not trying to say that everyone who gets stopped by the police is innocent, but many of them (including myself) are being harrassed every day by racial profiling cops. Talk to some middle easterners, the new dark meat in the profiling game and see if I'm not right.

 

[leafstk]

Now leaf, explain to me what justified this behavior from the cops? Did he steal something? NO! Did he abuse anyone? NO! What did he do wrong considering most kids his age are buying drugs, drinking, and screwing around? Absolutely nothing wrong, but was treated like a criminal because he was a black young man in a white neighborhood. Let's hear your bleeding heart speech again!

Look, you're gettin me all wrong here. I'm far from racist and I understand that some hardships and wrongdoings do occur. I've got plenty of experience working with autistic kids and those of other special needs. The fact that he's autistic was most likely the major factor here. People who don't understand autism would most likely call into question why he was alone shopping in the mall, even though he is perfectly capable of doing so. I could be wrong, but I don't see the race card here.

I told him that although he should be free to go anywhere he wanted, but ignorant people share this world with us who are racist and prejudice. They have no idea of who other races are except for what they see on tv. [/B]

What on earth are you telling him that for? Okay, lets just let the cycle continue then. Statements like that instill thoughts of mistrust before he's even had a chance to see for himself and give people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[leafstk]

If you're white, you can afford to have this high and mighty opinion. It's yours to have, but since I've been thorough this personally as well as my son, your opinion is just that, an opinion. And you know what those are like because everyone has one!!!

And by the way, I was the responsible adult. The irresponsible party was white he lied to the cops and they chose to believe him over me. I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! It's a black thing and you simply just don't understand!

I wasn't trying to be high and mighty, jeesh! Take a pill. I never implied you were irresponsible. I was just saying, from where I'm from, I don't see it. I stand corrected.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

I've been stopped by the police at night for absolutely no explainable reason...other than that back in those days, it was hard to tell behind the windows of my car whether I was of a Latin background or not. The officer who stopped me, in the town in which Baron now resides, looked little more than fourteen years old, and was positively scared to death of me. He offered no concrete reason why I was stopped. I then started to think of all the Central/South Americans living in my apartment complex, and how often they might be stopped, or any of the substantial Black community there as well. I've heard dozens of stories from my friends back there, and I pretty much don't doubt any of them.

One of the most irksome things in life can be a bored, young cop at 2:30AM, who thought life was gonna be like 'NYPD Blue' or even 'Adam-12'. From this boredom can grow mischief. The older, more veteran members of the force have a routine mapped out, and are good at looking out for themselves. Not the kids, though...

 

[kis123]

I wasn't trying to be high and mighty, jeesh! Take a pill. I never implied you were irresponsible. I was just saying, from where I'm from, I don't see it. I stand corrected.

I don't require a pill nearly as much as you require a reality check. You're the one who decided I was a bleeding heart who made this up. It happens to be very real! Judging what some other posters have been saying on this thread, looks like I'm in some good company.

It's nice to know you live in an area where this doesn't happen to you, however, it happens in a lot of places around the country. Where I come from, it happens regularly and far too often.

 

[kis123]

Look, you're gettin me all wrong here. I'm far from racist and I understand that some hardships and wrongdoings do occur. I've got plenty of experience working with autistic kids and those of other special needs. The fact that he's autistic was most likely the major factor here. People who don't understand autism would most likely call into question why he was alone shopping in the mall, even though he is perfectly capable of doing so. I could be wrong, but I don't see the race card here.

What on earth are you telling him that for? Okay, lets just let the cycle continue then. Statements like that instill thoughts of mistrust before he's even had a chance to see for himself and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, I had the right to allow my son to know that the world is not the nice place he'd like it to be. It'll keep him out of trouble if he knows the truth and learns to work within its limitations. I'd rather prepare him for the truth than to visit him in jail because he pissed off some racist with his presence. He doesn't need to trust everybody, not in today's sick and twisted society. He needs to know how to protect himself so he can make it day to day. He can't afford to trust just anybody or go just anywhere. I didn't make the rules, I just learn how to work with them so I can stay out of jail and employed. The workplace racism is an entirely different subject all by itself.

You must wear some thick rose-colored glasses if you don't see the race card here. My son is very high-functioning and you will not know he has disabilities unless he speaks because it's in his voice where the differences are. The only reason the cashier called the cops was BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK IN A LILY WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD!!!! I can say this until I'm blue in my brown face and you still won't see the point. Good luck to you and the world you live in. I wish me and my son could live in it with you.

 

[JoBelle]

Ouch kis.

I'm sorry, but I feel the need to call you out on something. Normally I agree with most things that you post, but something is happening in this thread that I don't dig.

A few things you've said have just chapped me.
"Talk to some middle easterners, the new dark meat in the profiling game and see if I'm not right."

"It's a black thing and you simply just don't understand!"

"BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK IN A LILY WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD!!!!"

These are some of the most racists comments I've ever seen spewed on the TMF. Racial profiling may very well be wrong. I also feel it is understandable in some circumstances. It may not be RIGHT, but it IS understandable. I don't understand why the anger is being shot out at leafstk simply because his experiences are different than yours. Rather than berating him, you might choose to CALMLY explain to him why you feel the way you do instead of using the phrases above. To many people in the world, things such as those you mentioned are simply something that happens in big cities, or on TV. It's not a reality in their lives. Educate them, don't hate them.

Frankly, I'm a bit put out that you would ever refer to neighborhood of mostly white people as being Lily white. "Dark Meat" Good lord! It's a black thing?? Well, let me open your eyes to another reality. There is currently a generation of white people who are thinking there is no way you could understand that they are feeling a different kind of pressure than you ever will. How do you make up for the sins of the father when they are thrown in your face as if you committed them. I'm not saying racism is dead....but I AM saying that the black part of the equation keeps it as alive as the white, yellow, brown, green, and orange!

Disappointed,
Jo

 

[kis123]

Ouch kis.

I'm sorry, but I feel the need to call you out on something. Normally I agree with most things that you post, but something is happening in this thread that I don't dig.

A few things you've said have just chapped me.
"Talk to some middle easterners, the new dark meat in the profiling game and see if I'm not right."

"It's a black thing and you simply just don't understand!"

"BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK IN A LILY WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD!!!!"

These are some of the most racists comments I've ever seen spewed on the TMF. Racial profiling may very well be wrong. I also feel it is understandable in some circumstances. It may not be RIGHT, but it IS understandable. I don't understand why the anger is being shot out at leafstk simply because his experiences are different than yours. Rather than berating him, you might choose to CALMLY explain to him why you feel the way you do instead of using the phrases above. To many people in the world, things such as those you mentioned are simply something that happens in big cities, or on TV. It's not a reality in their lives. Educate them, don't hate them.

Frankly, I'm a bit put out that you would ever refer to neighborhood of mostly white people as being Lily white. "Dark Meat" Good lord! It's a black thing?? Well, let me open your eyes to another reality. There is currently a generation of white people who are thinking there is no way you could understand that they are feeling a different kind of pressure than you ever will. How do you make up for the sins of the father when they are thrown in your face as if you committed them. I'm not saying racism is dead....but I AM saying that the black part of the equation keeps it as alive as the white, yellow, brown, green, and orange!

Disappointed,
Jo

Before I excuse myself from this post;

The fact that these things appear racist does not mean that they are not true in my world. I'm sorry, but I'm not here to make reality easy for anyone. It's the truth regardless of whether ANYONE likes it or not. Racism is a reality, it's an ugly truth of American society and I didn't create it. It's not a viewpoint that I share alone, I'm just not afraid to express it in a matter that I have to deal with everyday. If it is not in your life every day, you have the luxury to judge me.

Walk in my shoes or the shoes of my innocent children. Be at my daughter's school while she's being called "ghetto" and the "n" word. Imagine the look on my kid's face when she's told by her basketball team that the only reason she was picked to be on the team because she is tall and black! They're too racist to give my daughter for her extrordinary talent and her ability to play with upper classmen since she was twelve years old. Be with my son in public when he gets followed around in stores and questioned while others are being left alone. Be the only black female in the work place and deal with the "slave at the bottom of the boat" jokes and see how it makes you feel. How do you think it makes me feel to have to deal with this stuff every single day? You think my comments are racist? They're very real in my world, and if you don't live it and have to put up with it in your everyday life, you can comment based upon your assumptions all you want, but it's not your experience to call me on at all!

By the way, I've heard much worse said on this board than my comments. If they disgust you that much, there's little I can do about that. I normally respect your posts as well, but we are NOT going to agree on this at all, nor will I change my mind.

 

[leafstk]

I feel sorry for you. You need help.

 

[kis123]

I feel sorry for you. You need help.

And what kind of help do you suggest I receive? Not that it really matters, but as a way to satisfy my curiosity. Please do me a favor and not waste your pity on me. The only help I need is peace of mind. You are not in the position to give that to me.

I'm even sorrier I ever posted on this topic because I'm being made to be the bad guy when I'm actually the victim here and have been so for many years. I've learned to live with it and deal with it or I won't be able to go outside my door. I don't need your's or anyone else's patronizing pity. Continue to live in your world, and I'll continue to live in mine.

I'm genuinely sorry I've obviously offended some people. But I'm not sorry about ANYTHING I've said. I don't expect you to agree or understand because you simply can't unless you've been through it. I'll stand by it 1000%.

 

[leafstk]

While you do that, cry me a river

 

[kis123]

While you do that, cry me a river

I'll save my tears for a meaningful purpose, yourself excluded, thank you very much.

You obviously are in the mood for a cheap and tacky confrontation and I have more intelligent things to do with my time. Please stick to your opinion and I will do the same. But, please do us both a favor and lose the condescending commentary. It's just not productive.

 

[leafstk]

I'll save my tears for a meaningful purpose, yourself excluded, thank you very much.

Good.

You obviously are in the mood for a cheap and tacky confrontation and I have more intelligent things to do with my time.

Excuse me? If you could read the anger and hatred into your words you might rethink that statement. I won't post here again. Thanks for your thoughts. Peace.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

As an educator, sometimes I just have to shake my head in frustration about the type of parents I have to deal with.

Didn't stutter... I said parents, not students. You see, I feel (without having read every single post, sorry), I feel that Bill Cosby didn't do or say anything wrong.

It was the truth. The truth hurts sometimes. It hurts more when someone financially successful is criticizing the way "poor people" are raising their kids. But nonetheless, he isn't living under a rock. He knows enough about life to see that many lazy people out there are creating conditions for our youth to self-destruct in the future. And they care more about where the next party is than raising their kids. He may think it is only a economic or "ethnic" problem, but I call it a generational problem that extends beyond race. Bottom line people.... it's more of an epidemic!

One could argue that this language is their universal way of communicating, and to expect otherwise would stunt their creativity. 🙄

One could argue that there are not enough resources and so a life of prostitution, thievery, drugs, pregnancy, and welfare is to be expected giving the bleak situation, the horrible cards unfairly dealt.

One could argue that these kids living in lower social economic areas are attending schools that are inadequate to educate them due to lack of funds, unqualified teachers, and corrupt school board members.

One could even argue that the street life is too distracting for them to ever see true success.

To all of that... I say BULLSHIT. Bill Cosby had to guts to say what millions out there are actually thinking, but don't have the balls to voice. I have no doubt what group of people he was targeting with his statements; however, his statements can be applied to kids today, period... regardless of ethnicity!

To those of you who are so outraged that you can't see the validity of his statements, or so outraged that you can't grasp how he was speaking out to make it clear to his audience that a change needs to take place to save America's youth.... I would just have to assume that you are beyond reasoning with. How can you be so angry and defensive that you can't see this man's point?

Anyway, that's the beginning of MY RANT. I'm going to read all the posts now... 😀. And I'll probably reply again.

Sunny

 

[mgctouch]

Anybody who knows Bill Cosby and has followed him in any way knows that he is extremely interested in giving the blacks the same opportunities that the whites have. They also know that he is very much PRO - education and PRO-image.

Bill Cosby, like many other black men and women, realize that you have more open doors to better opportunities when you are educated and sound educated.

Look at any black actor/actress, politician, sportscaster/newscaster... Who do you respect and feel more comfortable with? One who sounds educated or one who speaks street language. Would you respect Denzel Washington as much if he spoke like Mike tyson?

Bill Cosby's comments were very much on the mark. It is a parents responsibility to help educate their kids. I believe that his comments were very much intended to spark controversy with not only the blacks but also the "white trash", "Hispanic trach" and any other poorly educated people. He wanted an eye-opener to cause discussion. this is how progress occues.

Booker T Washington once said "One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him." Some people have transposed it to say that 'the only way a black man can be kept in the gutter is for the white me to be standing in the gutter holding his foot on the black man'. In Bill Cosby's statement, the parents are holding the kids in the gutter by failing to learn and educate their kids in "American" English.

If you were an employer, who would you be more inclined to hire? A person who sounds educated when they speak or a person who does not sound educated when they speak. Taking this to the next level, who would you promote sooner? A person who sounds educated when they speak or a person who does not sound educated when they speak. Taking this to the next level. Who is more likely to advance high enough in a company to become upper management, CEO, Partner...? A person who sounds educated when they speak or a person who does not sound educated when they speak.

Bill Cosby cares a lot about the future of the African-Americans and his goal is to make them equals to the Anglo-Americans.

Though his statements were directed at the blacks - they should be heeded by all.

I now relinquish my soap box.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Re: Chris Rock, again?

You don't seem to hear any of Chris Rock's pro-black, anti-white, anti-establishment jokes. You're clearly only hearing what you want to hear.

By the way, I don't know you, but I can make a sure bet that a white person calling you a typical ignorant white man, would anger you less than a black person saying the same thing. Then, imagine you're a minority and are the ancestor of SLAVES in this country. You'd flip. It's so easy for you to put down racial sensitivity, cuz you don't have to hear crap like what Cosby said about YOUR culture, and YOUR race, and YOUR status in this country.

Sorry guys, had to bump this back to the first page for a reality check. Yeah, I've heard Chris Rock's anti-white jokes too, but guess what? I find those funny too, because I'm not sensitive about my race. When people can just get over the bad shit done in the past and do something about the present and future, our world will be a much better place. Yeah, it sucks that slavery happened, but you weren't a slave yourself, so what are you bitching for? I understand if you're bitching about disenfranchisement, because that applies to many blacks nowadays, but don't start the slave reparations bullshit. My family was made up of poor Scots and Irish when your ancestors were slaves. Believe it or not, white people have a longer history of dicking over their own race than ruining the lives of other races. Just ask an Irish person about the British. I might be part Irish, but you don't see me always talking about the events surrounding the book "A Modest Proposal." Just do the world a favor and recognize that slavery is over with and we have to attend to current issues like crime, drugs, and poverty. Overreacting to Cosby's controversial rant serves no purpose other than to make yourself look like a fool....

 

[BigJim]

Ebonics as it appears from across the pond.

Read one thing before you see the comments below - - - I abhor racism and think it to be a boneheaded practice. Now...


Everyone has slang. Cockneys do, Geordies do, the Jocks do, the Taffs do and the carrot crunchers do. (That's Londoners, people from Newcastle, Scotland, Wales and the south-west of England - like me in fact.) To me ebonics seems to be a mixture of pure laziness - not being arsed to pronounce words properly or bother to use grammar or diction - and "rebel without a brain" syndrome. I'm not talking about people who use it casually, I'm talking about people who see it's use as a distinguising mark and use it from pride, cos dey from de hood. Bill Cosby is right in my opinion; you won't get any hospital, institute or law firm employing someone who speaks some gutter patois that is indistinguishable from what comes out of a drunk's arse after a vindaloo curry. (And that goes for whether the speaker is black OR white and applies to all forms of slang, not just Ebonics! So don't run away with the idea that I'm rubbishing black heriatage or distinguising verbiage here. Kis is damn right when she says that Ebonics recognises no racial boundaries.)

There's nothing to stop people enjoying their own slang when they want to, but the way it's used these days is similar to the phenomenon of "Rasti-chat" that swept Britain in the 1980's. Rastafarians of all races burbled and babbled their way across the country, then got shitty when they were met with blank looks everywhere. It was a mark of pride to not speak anything anyone else could understand. Both that and the "craze" in the US seems to be born out of a desire to isolate oneself in the delusion that the world is bad and wrong and you are the righteous rebel. By all means talk it if you want to in the appropriate setting, but don't let that be a bar to speaking the language the rest of the country does. That isn't racism, it's common sense and courtesy.

And for the record, the last three lines of McPhisto's last post were bang on the money. Fuck the past, make the future glow!