Custom clip terms

[boxleitnerb]

Hi all,

sorry if this is the wrong part of the forum, but I didn't quite know where to put this thread.

I contacted a producer (whose name I will not mention here) about a custom tickling clip and one thing irritating me was the following passage in our email conversation:

"We would probably create some kind of story, but that would be additional material that we would use for a longer video.
We would retain ownership of the video and use it in part or whole for our own projects."

I explicitly told them, I don't want any plot or corny dialogue and now I have to pay premium for a custom clip that is not totally custom AND not mine?
A clip that is being sold in their store? So I would be paying more than anybody else who is buying this clip?

Is this normal? Would you agree to this?

 

[Rook's Media]

For ex:

If they're charging $10.99 for the clip in their store...

...and they're charging you $29.99 for the custom work (with content that you didn't request), yeah, there's a definite problem there.

I would e-mail them again if I were you...and explain your concerns.

I hope everything works out.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Cavum]

I agree on Rook on this one.
Thats not the way to do business. Hope things work out for you..

 

[boxleitnerb]

A custom clip for 30 bucks? No way! 😉
Add a zero there...

I did and he said, it is normal in the business, most stores that offer customs do it and the price he quoted already included a discount because of exactly the terms of the deal.
I don't know what to make of it...

 

[Cavum]

Did they inform you about this before you payed btw?

 

[cs2525usa]

You might want to do a bit of shopping around. Keep in mind, a custom clip probably won't be cheap. Producers can be quite different , from one spectrum to the other. I've found that you need to be as specific as possible right up front. And if a product cant be agreed upon, there's probably someone out there that will work with you rather well. Good luck, and please keep us posted as to the outcome.

 

[Black Hat]

It seems to me that if they were going to re-market the video at normal cost, then charging you extra is not right, because basically you are giving them an idea they will profit from, creating a trade of sorts. They carry out your idea, and they make money from it by selling it to other people. If I was a producer I wouldn't charge anything extra if I thought I could put the requested video up on my main site.

If however they are not going to re-market the video, instead doing a custom video just for you, then they stand to lose money thus charging you well above normal pricing makes total sense.

Furthermore if they are not even following your direction for this custom shoot...to hell with them.

 

[boxleitnerb]

I did not pay yet, I wanted more information first of course.

The clip in question would cost 350$ for 2 girls and 15 mins. The discount already included.
To compare, another producer offered a 30min custom clip with 3 girls for 500-800$ depending on the content and script.
I guess with just 2 girls and also 15 mins I would be cheaper than these 350 bucks.

However, it is always a question of the right model. I don't buy normal clips where there is no preview and I will especially not buy a custom with not knowing what the girls sound like and if she even is ticklish.

 

[Cavum]

500-800 bucks for 30 fucking min??? jeeez...
And THEN sell it "cheap" on theyre store??

I would find someone else to do buisness with.

 

[boxleitnerb]

No, I don't know what the terms of this second store are, yet.

This is for 3 girls and 30 mins!
I will probably tone it down to 2 girls and perhaps 10 mins. Shame they don't offer something in between...

 

[Obelon]

I do agree that it does seem a little harsh charging $300 and then selling the clip on but I am guessing your average video clip cost more than $300 all in to make.

So in a way its kinda getting paid for in futre sales via their online sales.

Now when they normally make their video they are making an investment in the aims to at least break even but hopefully make moeny via their online sales.

When it comes to custom it can be a mixed bag in that you would likely be nearer the $1k to fully fund a vid (perhaps more, I am sure some vid developers can give us better figures). So by offer less to make the custom their might be taking a risk, on the one hand your idea while being your own person vid, could be intune with the community and is very popular, even outselling their normal vids. Or it could be the opposite with little sales. Keep in mind that once a vid is made it is fairly cheap to sell it.

That being said I do think that it might be possible to come to an arrangement that if they do offer it for sale and it sells well they should offer you a parital to full refund with possiblly even a little commision if it does very well in sales.

I know $300 is a lot to pay for a vid but your not paying for the only copy ever made but rather for a company to put your idea in a vid and to make it your way.

"We would probably create some kind of story, but that would be additional material that we would use for a longer video.
We would retain ownership of the video and use it in part or whole for our own projects."

Well I would aviod that company, the sounds of things you aren't going to get what you are after which is the point of getting the vid made.

"we would create some kind of story" I wonder what they mean by some kind. If I was paying $300 I would want my story with it following the script I made up, kinda the reason of paying $300 and not $10.

My advice would be to aviod the first company. I would be very clear to what you are after and double check that they can do it. Get detals like the after sale of the video worked out in advance. I would keep in mind what you are after as well is it your own idea's in a clip or is it to have a very person video for yourself. As that will help you decided if you should pay or not.

Also keep in mind it will be rare for a custom work to be perfect as sometimes idea's that you have in your head can be very hard to describe and as the people doing the video can't see what you are picturing they will always be some give and take with custom works but that being said they should be making a good stab at it for that money.

 

[Gadilici]

Dude, you could conceivably hire your own models for a comparable or lower price for an hour of footage. That you get to shoot.

If you're paying that kind of money, it should be precisely what you want. If not, find another group till they agree to exactly what you want. Too expensive to just settle.

Christopher

 

[The Last Laugh]

Is this normal? Would you agree to this?

Absolutely not. Now, if they followed your exact instructions, I could understand them asking you to pay somewhat more than other customers, because by requesting something specific of them they might have to do something they're not used to, or that's not quite what they usually like to do. They wouldn't have the same freedom they usually have. For all I know it might even be a scenario that's not all that popular among customers, so it makes sense for you to pay extra. However, if the request has general appeal and they intend to sell the clip as a regular product on their store, you shouldn't have to pay too much for it. And there's no reason for you to pay more than anyone else if they're not even doing it the way you want. It would be a total rip-off. I suggest you avoid their services entirely.

That being said, I have to respectfully disagree with what Black Hat said: "because basically you are giving them an idea they will profit from, creating a trade of sorts". Well, frankly, the customer would have to be suggesting a *really* original idea that no one has thought of before for it to be worth anything to the producer. Pretty much everything has been done before, and a producer who's been in the business for any length of time has had plenty of time to come up with tons of ideas that are technically possible for him/her and that correspond to what he/she likes or is willing to do. So a custom clip request is unlikely to qualify as a service the customer is offering the producer. More like the other way around.

Personally, while I appreciate when people offer suggestions or make requests (the attention is nice), I can't say I've ever had any use for those ideas. The requests I get are usually for things that I'm not comfortable doing, that are technically impossible or at least too inconvenient for me, that don't correspond to what my business is about, or are just too generic to add anything interesting to the things I've already thought of myself.

 

[the tickleshow]

Speaking not as a video producer, but as someone who writes and negotiates contracts for a living (no, I'm not a lawyer 🙂 ), the language used by the producer you mention is common in "mainstream" movie and television agreements. It's all about ownership of intellectual property. What is means is that they will make a custom video for you, but they own the rights to what they shot and can use some or all of it in another video they make. I know it's a stretch, but legally, they want to be sure you don't claim owndership of the idea (because you suggested and paid for them to produce it) and turn around and sell it as your own and it allows them to at some point use either actual footage or the idea within another video they produce. It's overly worded, I know, but in the rare event that a problem arises, this covers them. Anyone with legal representation will more than likely use the same language.
As far as charging you for their own desire to create a plot line, that's a different story...

Enjoy the Show!
The TickleShow
www.clips4sale.com/28100
www.tickleshow.webs.com

 

[boxleitnerb]

Thanks for all your opinions so far! 🙂

I understand that making a vid is quite an investment that 300 bucks might not cover. But I liked the idea of a partial to full refund depending on the sales or at least some store credit.
I probably won't go with that deal because I liked the correspondence with the second producer I wrote to better. They are very forthcoming and friendly and they really take their time to answer all my questions, seems more professional to me. I will tell the name and how it turned out when all is done.
I have contacted a couple of other producers but they don't have models I like or won't do stuff I want them doing.

If I look at the price, the second producer also has a clear advantage:

1. store: 15 min, 2 girls for 350$
2. store: 30mins, 3 girls for 500-800$

Now if you estimate what the price would be like for 2 girls, one of them being the store owner itself and keep in mind the fact that I requested a very simple scenario without costumes, complicated scripts etc, I would bet the second one is alot more bang for the buck.
Also their model I prefer is hotter 😀

 

[Gadilici]

If they work out for you, make sure to give them a good review. Keeps em friendly, and lets us know where to go for custom work 😀

Christopher

 

[boxleitnerb]

You have to remind me of the review when it's time, I will probably forget because I will be watching the clip nonstop 😀

 

[rhiannon]

Speaking not as a video producer, but as someone who writes and negotiates contracts for a living (no, I'm not a lawyer 🙂 ), the language used by the producer you mention is common in "mainstream" movie and television agreements. It's all about ownership of intellectual property. What is means is that they will make a custom video for you, but they own the rights to what they shot and can use some or all of it in another video they make. I know it's a stretch, but legally, they want to be sure you don't claim owndership of the idea (because you suggested and paid for them to produce it) and turn around and sell it as your own and it allows them to at some point use either actual footage or the idea within another video they produce. It's overly worded, I know, but in the rare event that a problem arises, this covers them. Anyone with legal representation will more than likely use the same language.
As far as charging you for their own desire to create a plot line, that's a different story...

Enjoy the Show!
The TickleShow
www.clips4sale.com/28100
www.tickleshow.webs.com

It absolutely doesn't sound right that they keep the rights! I know it works different for photoshoots! If I, as a model, want to shoot with a certain photographer and pay him for taking pictures of me, I pay him for the rights! So the pictures are mine and he can NOT use them to show what he is able to do.

On the other hand, if he pays me for photographing me, then HE owns the rights and can post the pictures on a porn site if he chooses to do so!

Whoever pays owns the rights!

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

There are a number of producers who offer custom work. I'd consider checking with them as well and find the best deal. (If you go to the links directories on TK-411, the video producers section indicates who has expressed a willingness to do customs.)

 

[Gadilici]

Well, sometimes by them keeping the rights, it lowers the cost of custom work. That way they can sell the video. You get your custom, pay less, and have the satisfaction of knowing other people dig your concept enough to buy it.

It does have it's good side....

Christopher

 

[Radiohead 7140]

There is some concept in economics which i can't quite recall, but it involves charging more for a product to a niche (generally a country) that can afford it and demands it than to other countries that would not buy at the higher price. I believe this not allowed, but I could be wrong. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

To your situation, I feel like there are 2 element:

1: If i read correctly, they want to put dialogue and story line in that you did not want or request? If that's the case, walk away. It is your custom and they really have no business doing that.

2: You are being charged a lot of money for a custom, and then they are selling it at their site to the public at large for regular price. Here is where I think we disagree (and surprisingly I actually seem to disagree with some producers - Rook and LLI).

You're requesting a product that they wouldn't ordinarily make. Therefore it makes sense for them to charge extra. In making your custom, they lose time and ability to do their ordinary course of business, production costs are probably higher, and they have no idea if the public at large will be interested in the clip. Therefore they will probably want to be sure they will profit from the product on you alone before considering doing it.

That being said, if it's done, now they have this product sitting around that could be generating money. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to sell it to the rest of the consumers (though obviously, since to them it's just another clip, they would have to charge regular prices).

I have bought several clips from a site than i'm certain were customs for people. I'd never pay hundreds for it, but they look like good clips so I buy them for standard price. But the producers can't anticipate this and make these custom clips without first ensuring they will profit off the customer requester.

I did like the idea of a system whereby the producer pays a commission to the custom requester if the clip sells to other buyers. But to me, that would be a great act of conscience, but not one that I would demand out of producers.