deleted post

[TMF Jeff]

I deleted the post that was in this slot. That kind of language, derogatory and inflammatory, will absolutely not be allowed on the TMF.

 

[TICKLERBOY123]

You are quite, quite right and i apologise for my offensive post. But the point i just want to make is that i would prefer to see more "normal" people in these videos - not models etc. I think that such videos would be very successful - i applaud the work of yourself and other moderators and of realtickling - who have done an absolutely sterling job - keep up the good work - but make it better if you could - by perhaps extending the footage and lowering prices if possible.
I should not really criticise production companies as i have not purchased many of their items - and i was wrong to do so. Please forgive me kathy😀

 

[TMF Jeff]

Personally, and I'm sure this is true of Femfeet also, I feel like I've done the very best that I can to keep the prices as low as possible, to give away as much free stuff as I reasonably can, and to make the videos as interesting and enjoyable to as many people as possible.

I think it's a little unreasonable to expect us to appeal 100% specifically to you instead of taking what enjoyment you can from the things that we do that do appeal to you.

As for prices, if I lowered my prices I would quickly go out of business and then there would be no content at all. I'm not Universal Studios, able to charge any price at all and still be turning a profit. There has been more than one period during MTP's life when if sales dipped a mere 5% the whole game would have been over. This business is NOT making me rich, or even really prosperous 😉

 

[TICKLERBOY123]

you are a good and intelligent man - a characteristic prevalent - it would seem - amoung members of this group.
I thank you for taking time to reply - and i must say that your videos are excellent!

A few questions though - have you ever appeared on a television show - i would be interested to know if you have!
What motivated you to start your business - i appreciate you will probably not have tiome to answer this question - and what typically is your average annual turnover - if i can be so intrusive!! Is there much demand for your videos and how many do you sell!

Furthermore let me congratulate you on doing a fantastic job. With so many internet sites of a questionable nature operating it is nice to see a forum with integrity and a respexct for moral values. Thankyou for helping to maintain the TMF as the single most outstanding achievment the internet can offer - and i am not lying - your site epitmises what is great about the internet - yet so sorely lacking at the same time - a place for intelligent dicourse on a range of subjects diverse from the conventional. Furthermore it stands for freedom of information. How many other places in the world could you go to, to speak openly on tickling and download tikling clips and converse with like minded individuals- for free! I think we should appreciate how lucky we are that so many people are willing to spend so much time and effot maintaining the only successful tickling site on the internet i have ever encoutered!

 

[realtickling]

JEFF SAID:
Personally, and I'm sure this is true of Femfeet also, I feel like I've done the very best that I can to keep the prices as low as possible, to give away as much free stuff as I reasonably can.

JEFF YOU'RE VERY CORRECT. WE AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT. LOOK AROUND AND YOU WON'T FIND VERY MANY VID COMPANIES GIVING OUT LOTS OF FREE VIDEO CLIPS, PICTURES AND DRAWINGS. JUST THINK IF JEFF AND WE, AND SOME OTHER TICKLE COMPANIES NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER GAVE OUT ONE TINY THING FOR FREE. THE ONLY OTHER ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE TO BUY IT. COMPANIES LIKE JEFF AND WE, AND A COUPLE NEW FOLKS WANT TO SHARE SOME STUFF WITH THOSE OF YOU WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY ANYTHING. IT'S AN HONOR FOR US TO DO SO. BUT ECONOMICS WILL ONLY ALLOW US TO SHARE "SOME STUFF" OR WE'LL BE OUT OF INCOME WHICH WE NEED TO PRODUCE OUR NEXT PROJECT.


JEFF SAID:
As for prices, if I lowered my prices I would quickly go out of business and then there would be no content at all. I'm not Universal Studios, able to charge any price at all and still be turning a profit. This business is NOT making me rich, or even really prosperous 😉

AGAIN, THAT'S THE SAME WITH US. I THINK THERE IS A WIDESPREAD MISCONCEPTION ABOUT THE KIND OF PROFIT THE TICKLING VIDEO COMPANIES MAKE (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF FM CONCEPTS, HE HE). LET ME SAY THIS. IF YOU PLAN ON STARTING A TICKLING VIDEO COMPANY FOR THE SOLE REASON OF MAKING BIG BUCKS AND RETIRING IN 5 YEARS, DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. IT'S A MYTH. THAT COULD ONLY BE DONE 15 YEARS AGO WHEN NO ONE ELSE WAS DOING IT. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO NOW HAVE ENOUGH TO RETIRE. WE TRIED FOR A WHOLE YEAR TO ONLY CHARGE $29 FOR OUR VIDEOS, AND IT DIDN'T GO WELL. WE HAD TO START CHARGING $10 MORE FOR ALL NEW RELEASES. OK, SOMETIMES NUMBERS ARE EASIER TO UNDERSTAND.
HERE'S AN AVERAGE SCENARIO FOR A F/F VIDEO:

FEE FOR 2 BEAUTIFUL MODELS FOR 3 HOURS = $800
BOTTOM OF THE LINE VIDEO CAMERA = $900
PROPS, RESTRAINTS, LIGHTING, ETC = $500
EDITING AND DUBBING & VHS CASSETTE = $5 EACH TAPE

APPROX TOTAL = $2200

THIS DOESN'T EVEN INCLUDE ADVERTISING TIME AND COSTS, WEBSITE TIME AND COSTS. TIME IS MONEY. WHEN YOU'RE AT YOUR PC BUILDING YOUR WEBSITE YOU'RE NOT AT WORK MAKING HOURLY WAGES. SO, HOW MANY VIDEOS AT $40 EACH DO YOU HAVE TO SELL TO EVEN BREAK EVEN?
62 OF THEM,(YOU HAVE TO TAKE $5 OFF EACH SALE FOR DUBBING).
AT $29 EACH?
91 OF THEM, (AGAIN, THE PROFIT'S ONLY $24 BECAUSE OF $5 EACH DUBBED/CASSETTE COSTS).
HONESTLY IT USUALLY TAKES 3-4 MONTHS OF SELLING A VIDEO JUST TO BREAK EVEN WITH THE MONEY PUT INTO THEM. AND BY THAT TIME ALMOST ALL HARDCORE TICKLERS (BLESS THEIR HEARTS) HAVE ALREADY PURCHASED, SO SALES SLOW DOWN DRAMATICALLY. IT'S REALLY REALLY TOUGH. I WISH IT WEREN'T. WE JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN MAKING VIDEOS AND SHARE THEM WITH FELLOW TICKLERS/LEES. SO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING FOR "PROFIT AND LOSS WITH KATHY." JOIN US NEXT WEEK.

HE HE. I HOPE THIS HELPS OUT. I THINK ITS GOOD INFO BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE EMAIL US AND ASK THINGS LIKE HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO GET STARTED? WHERE DO YOU FIND YOUR MODELS? CAN YOU LOWER YOUR PRICES AND MAKE YOUR VIDEOS LONGER? IF I BUY ONE CAN I GET ONE FREE?
BOTTOM LINE, WE WOULD IF WE COULD.

 

[Longbaugh]

Good Work

I think Jeff and Femfeet have done an excelent job and I hope they never go out of business. I personaly don't mind paying the forty bucks for a video( and I Am Not a millionaire) and I Like the models they use. I 'd rather shell out the cash than have these companies go out of business and lose my favorite tickle vid producers. Besides I've tried with a buddy of mine to run a business and I know how hard it is even for something in the mainstream( i did'nt run a tic vid company) to break even. We gave up and sought employment elsewhere and run the business part time just for extra income. I sympathize with Femfeet and Jeff's financial situations and I'm just gratefull to have them producing their fine work.

Best of Luck

Longbaugh

 

[Strelnikov]

Production Costs

Kathy actually understated her startup costs. At work, we bought equipment to give us the capability to produce our own home-grown training videos. You're talking a minimum investment of $4,000.00 for the camera, a suitable computer and software to edit and produce the video, production equipment to actually make the video, and various other odds and ends. That's not much money for a big industrial company, but it sure would put a hole in MY bank account. Now add the costs Kathy mentioned, and you're up over $6,000.00 before you've sold the first vid.

Strelnikov

 

[mabus]

an idea

How about this RealTickling? I mentioned it earlier,
but now that I have more facts....

Okay, you pay the models $400 each. Pay them for 6 hours
instead of 3 and do TWO or THREE videos, instead of just
one. The camera cost will be the same, (I am assuming)
and use old props you don't need to pay for. People throw
a lot of stuff away, and garage sales will have a lot of
mindnumbingly cheap stuff that looks really good.
Don't rent costumes, they are expensive as hell, at least
where I live. Here's a point, and it's unfortunatly
a fact: Not everyone buys ALL the videos. As I mentioned,
I like pantyhose, but some people say they like barefeet.
I will buy an all pantyhose video, but others won't.
Conversley, they will buy an all barefoot, and I may, may
not depending on the model, or setting, or whatever.
If you could do a few at a time, and have different
scenarios and choices, (bare, pantyhose, costumes, etc.)
you would probably have more sales, and have a lot more
happy customers. To give you an example, I'm STILL
waiting for your new video to come out to see if it will
interest me, and be worth the $40. But if I had two or
three choices, I'd almost surely buy at LEAST one!
Maybe MORE. That would be more profit for you.
I hope this helps.
Any other ideas, people?

 

[TICKLERBOY123]

Bloody HELL! you pay your "models" $400!! I must say you are probably getting a bad deal! Why not advertise in local "free" newspapers? I am sure there are a multitude of students out there who are broke and would love even $70-$100 just to be tickled for 45 minutes - as most of your vids are only 25-35 minutes long anyway you could make this work - and i am sure that you could probably find a group of girls willing to be tickled for $200 and all the beer they want!! Just try it! Personally i prefer "real people" to internet "prostitutes" - i am not being offenive here jeff - but some of the modles- by no means all though - are of questionable character! Bye for now!

 

[dvnc]

On cost of models

One person has already mentioned the heightened cost of models for Femfeet, and another suggested going for longer shoots to assuage costs. Having worked with "one of us" that did such, I figured I'd share what I understood from them.

Remember Solefully Yours? Pam's happy little business, that her now-former husband completely submerged? Well, they WERE successful, for many years. They paid much less for models, largely due to location. Keep in mind, folks, that Femfeet is in one EXPENSIVE area for modelling services, and that in said area, many don't wish to "compromise" themselves, holding onto the dream of stardom and fame. Add to that the cost of living here in California, and you have a difficult venture. Wasn't true earlier.

Yeah, you CAN get folks for cheaper, sometimes, after screening umpteem people, dealing with those that either aren't ticklish, or are just plain bad shoots (unattractive on camera for whatever reason). It's just difficult. Pam had one lady whose language was rather blue (to use an old turn of phrase), cussing in most shoots. While it didn't seem to prevent the sales (they WERE good videos, after all), some folks didn't dig it and said so, in email and by phone.

Cost of living out here, for a roommate scenario, is better than $1000k per month. Minimum wage is still low enough to be below that, so there ARE folks needing such, but, putting aside exploitation and the unpleasant sensation of such, finding a kinky, open-minded, attractive, TICKLISH person willing to be video'd isn't easy.

Add to that the stigma of being a kink video business, the difficulty of running a business in general, and the fun of mail order business, and you have a more than daunting task.

Doubt me?

Count the number of ventures that were over five years ago. Magic Touch first started in '96. FM and ANA are two of the only major vendors still present. Both also cater to foot fetish video as well, and likely, as was true with Solefully Yours, make good change off of that business. Even Magic Touch is doing some foot fetish video.

Two businesses left. The rest of the "old school" is sold only where folks resell older stock. Try buying TJ Productions videos, Solefully Yours, Platinum, etc.

Models are expensive and rare, and profits aren't huge. Upkeep isn't simple or easy. One must be a businessperson, a webmaster, videographer and editor, an order-entry clerk, mailperson, and, until you get wise to who to have do the mass dupes, a video duplicator. It's a good deal of work.

Now take the same models, and ask them to be tickled for an hour on camera. Consider then asking them to do the tickling for another hour. Reasonable. Now ask them to "go again", being tickled for another shoot. Not common. Most models, Pam found, were simply too tired to stand another hour. Those that attend my events that can take such tickling are a rare breed indeed. Most don't last more than 30 minutes. That's why the old SY videos were usually 30 minutes. The longer shoots were when they found a rare bird. Then again, those folks didn't edit. Magic Touch does. Find a segment where it's longer than 30 minutes. Note how rare it is.

Now ask the model to just do one more shoot.

Wouldn't you, as a company, rather have that model back again and again? Shoot another day, and you get to keep the services of the tired young model. Overtax them, and unless they're one of us, they view the gig as tiring.

Now cut their pay.

Right.

Pay higher, shoot with less repetition, and get repeat models.

There are, of course, exceptions. Those rare folks can be, when not a head-case, delightful. They can't be expected, though, and do develop lives away from our kink, more often than not.

My $0.02 based on input from days of old with SY, and a few of their models, and the responses of 'lees from West Coast Gatherings since '97.

dvnc

 

[TICKLERBOY123]

I stand corrected! Your process' are probably more efficient than i give thm credit! My suggestion still stands though - perhaps you could put together a compilation tape of various real people being tickled - real lfe people wanting to be payed less than those who are broke?
Furthermore - i was reading mtpjeff's reply to a post on the topic of "pedicuring". It seems he has found some interesting accounts of tickling during pedicures. Well - one accout mentions a lady who had very ticklish feet but also wanted a pedicure. In order to deal with her ticklish feet, her friend would tickle her feet for 30 minutes a day for a week to reduce her sensitivity - but here's the worrying part - it worked! Well to get to the point - do you ever find that a tickle model simply stops being ticklish?? If so - what do you do! I would love to know what you have got to say!

 

[dvnc]

A number of people within this kink have seen some of their play partners lose sensitivity over time, and I'm one of them. Not all do, however. One comes to mind who is ALWAYS too ticklish. Another, however, comes to mind as being easily desensitized if play is excessive (>45 minutes, in her case), and thereafter, remains so for days.

This is where a good tickler will play to the advantage of the partner, figuring out, by interview and observation, what limits and boundaries will work.

Recall your youth, and that kid in school who wasn't ticklish until JUST the right spot was tickled, at which point they'd melt? Everyone has a differing degree of sensitivity, and there are many variations in how and when someone is ticklish. This is where we, as ticklers, need to attend to the person, learn them, and play with them as appropriate.

Some models for SY *would* lose sensitivity in play, but not constantly, largely because there was a small number of sessions performed at any one time. Even with over 300 videos, less than half were tickling, if I recall correctly, and those were done with a variety of models. The first "set" was in the San Luis Obisipo area, the second, in San Francisco, and the third, in Hawaii. Up to around 250 was before SF, and after 300 was Hawaii. Some of the SLO models even travelled to San Francisco for occasional shoots, which is why there's crossover of models in the SF shoots.

As for getting "real life" people, Magic Touch, like SY, and I suspect like Femfeet, ARE getting "real life" people. There's nothing magic about the models. They're folks willing to be videotaped being tickled. The thing is, being video'd being tickled is, by common views, a strange thing, thus folks expect recompensation for such.

My $0.02,

dvnc 😉