Does anyone remember the time when...

[BellaRisa]

By itself? Not a problem. As part of a larger issue I have with the overly-exploitative commercialization of our fetish? Problem.

What's next, people renting themselves out at NEST?

I think this all goes back to something I've discussed in other threads: we're just not supposed to have too much fun *and* make money. No one expects you to be a trash collector or dishwasher for free, even though the world certainly needs those jobs to be filled, and while it's nice if a doctor occasionally volunteers no one really expects them to perform free operations, except under some Dickensian no-money circumstances where it's life and death. And those are very important jobs for any society; tickling and other adult material are luxuries, a nice extra. I'm not sure exploitation fits this situation since there's so much choice involved; when I think of exploitation I think of people being forced to pay far too much for food or medicine, not some fetishists having to pay a few dollars for a bit of sexual satisfaction. Don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from, I just see it a little differently.

As for renting themselves out at NEST...all I can say is that at the large spanking and BDSM events I've attended there are indeed famous Dommes and submissives who charge for their private time, or at least for certain types of play. I can honestly say they've worked hard to build reputations for being amazing players and giving a truly memorable session, and they're paid accordingly by ardent admirers. I don't think it's something we'll ever see at NEST, but I can see how and why it occurs

 

[Phineas]

I don't get that part to be honest. 🙂

What I mean is, when you combine the banner ads, paid escorts, video promotions, and all of the other commercial aspects of the site, it's overwhelming. If it were just banner ads, or just a section where people could hawk their videos, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But, to me, it seems like the second I set foot in the door everyone wants my credit card.

I wouldn't consider this exploitative commercialization of our fetish. That's just how it works!

Would you like to be my friend, Rhiannon? It'll only cost you $50 an hour. I make a really great friend, and I'd love to be your friend, too. But I do have bills to pay, so...

Now having said that, I can totally understand why clips have gone commercial. (snip) Meanwhile, if producers feel the need to be compensated for their full clips I don't see that as less love for the kink so much as a greater love for having their debts paid.

Well, don't get me wrong - I don't begrudge anyone from trying to make a living and I do agree that the barrier of entry is definitely lower. In a way, I kind of see that as contributing to the problem - seems like everyone with a handheld and a free-spirited friend wants my five bucks.

I don't fault video producers for wanting to be compensated. I don't fault Jeff for having to run banner ads. Hell, I don't even fault the mistresses and models that only seem to show up when they have a new product out. It's just that, to me, taken as a whole... it's overwhelming, and gives me the mental image of buzzards circling for the kill.

And just for the record, I bought nearly $40 worth of the Yenny re-issues the other day. I don't have an issue supporting the content providers at all, I just have an issue with being bludgeoned with it no matter what link I click on.

Just as an experiment, try to find a foot fetish community other than the Mouse Pad whose sole female presence isn't dominatrices looking for clients. (Do women even go to the Mouse pad?)

we're just not supposed to have too much fun *and* make money. No one expects you to be a trash collector or dishwasher for free.

True. However, dishwashers and trash collectors don't paper my trash can with fliers advertising their services, either. I come home from work to find circulars stuck in my door. I open my mailbox and it's stuffed with catalogs. I come here and the screen scrolls with banner ads. I log onto Twitter and all of my new followers are pornbots. I guess it's just weariness of advertising in general. I'm just so. damn. tired of it.

Yes, I realize complaining does little good, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[rhiannon]

What I mean is, when you combine the banner ads, paid escorts, video promotions, and all of the other commercial aspects of the site, it's overwhelming. If it were just banner ads, or just a section where people could hawk their videos, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But, to me, it seems like the second I set foot in the door everyone wants my credit card.

I seriously don't feel that way. I probably do a good job ignoring banners! I have the stores I go to and get stuff, sometimes something catches my attention and I check it out, but hey - nobody forces me to buy anything.

I guess you have never met that German video producers who would even molest you by sending you mails acting to be one of his models, talking about meeting for a tickling session and then trying to get you to buy the videos!!! 🙂

Would you like to be my friend, Rhiannon? It'll only cost you $50 an hour. I make a really great friend, and I'd love to be your friend, too. But I do have bills to pay, so...

I feel you are comparing apples to pears here. It would be different if your GIRLFRIEND wanted money from you before she lets you tickle her!

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

I remember a website called extremetickling.com that took a whole bunch of clips that are nolonger available and charging a monthly fee to access their database.. There is always going to be someone that will try to make money off of it, or claim the work as their own.

Just to clarify, since you mentioned them by name... Extremetickling.com has permission for everything they offer. However, there ARE those out there who do try to sell other people's material without their permission.

As for the original point of there being less amateur material available... There are likely good reasons for that. Drew & I did a few vids back when we first got together. We stopped because we were getting all sorts of unwanted contacts from people asking us to do other stuff (some demanding rather than requesting and some of it having nothing to do with tickling), etc. Some people were total pigs in their contacts. That was more than enough to turn us off and ensure that we never do any more material to share with the general populace.

Why do we not have more folks making/offering free stuff? Partly because we've created an environment in which it is not a pleasant experience to do so.

 

[Phineas]

I guess you have never met that German video producers who would even molest you by sending you mails acting to be one of his models, talking about meeting for a tickling session and then trying to get you to buy the videos!!! 🙂

No, but that's definitely what I would consider part of the problem.

I feel you are comparing apples to pears here. It would be different if your GIRLFRIEND wanted money from you before she lets you tickle her!

Kinda hard to find a girlfriend here if everyone who seems accessable is charging an hourly fee. (And yes, I know that's an exaggeration.) What I meant by that is, that's how it comes across when I see people advertising here, sometimes. They come here, act like they're into the same stuff you're into, seem all enthusiastic and willing to interact, then bam - they present you with a bill for services rendered.

A friend of mine is a massage therapist. She charges her friends, sure, but she doesn't go to a night out with the gang and hand out business cards. That's what it feels like to me here, sometimes.

And, to clarify, I don't really expect it to change. It just bothers me.

 

[rhiannon]

No, but that's definitely what I would consider part of the problem.

It was more than a problem, it was harrassment!

Kinda hard to find a girlfriend here if everyone who seems accessable is charging an hourly fee.

Seriously....don't try to find a girlfriend HERE! I would say that is definitely the wrong place...you might be lucky, but the probability is not very high!

 

[BellaRisa]

What I mean is, when you combine the banner ads, paid escorts, video promotions, and all of the other commercial aspects of the site, it's overwhelming. If it were just banner ads, or just a section where people could hawk their videos, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But, to me, it seems like the second I set foot in the door everyone wants my credit card.



Would you like to be my friend, Rhiannon? It'll only cost you $50 an hour. I make a really great friend, and I'd love to be your friend, too. But I do have bills to pay, so...



Well, don't get me wrong - I don't begrudge anyone from trying to make a living and I do agree that the barrier of entry is definitely lower. In a way, I kind of see that as contributing to the problem - seems like everyone with a handheld and a free-spirited friend wants my five bucks.

I don't fault video producers for wanting to be compensated. I don't fault Jeff for having to run banner ads. Hell, I don't even fault the mistresses and models that only seem to show up when they have a new product out. It's just that, to me, taken as a whole... it's overwhelming, and gives me the mental image of buzzards circling for the kill.

And just for the record, I bought nearly $40 worth of the Yenny re-issues the other day. I don't have an issue supporting the content providers at all, I just have an issue with being bludgeoned with it no matter what link I click on.

Just as an experiment, try to find a foot fetish community other than the Mouse Pad whose sole female presence isn't dominatrices looking for clients. (Do women even go to the Mouse pad?)



True. However, dishwashers and trash collectors don't paper my trash can with fliers advertising their services, either. I come home from work to find circulars stuck in my door. I open my mailbox and it's stuffed with catalogs. I come here and the screen scrolls with banner ads. I log onto Twitter and all of my new followers are pornbots. I guess it's just weariness of advertising in general. I'm just so. damn. tired of it.

Yes, I realize complaining does little good, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Ok, I see where you're coming from. And I can't say that I disagree, because while I'm not bothered by the situation I totally understand why you are and it's a valid feeling. I will say that the reason you see so much advertisement and feel bombarded is that the folks advertising pretty much have to do it that way. Seriously, it's not as though commercials for tickling videos or Dommes can be on during Scrubs reruns or in with the big bunch of flyers you get from Pizza Hut and your local car wash. (And I don't know where you live, but in my area we *do* get flyer after flyer for everything from restaurants to dry cleaners to the new dog salon 🙄 ) When you're a small company in a small niche market and there are only a handful of places to sell your wares, you kinda have to go all out with your advertising in those few places in order to get your name out there and do well. Furthermore, I think you'd have to admit that the majority of people here, even producers like Jeff or myself, are primarily here for our love of the kink and to be on a forum for and with our friends; friends we travel miles and miles to see and whom we consider family. People who aren't advertising may not stand out as much, but they still make up the lion's share of this and the other tk forums

 

[Phineas]

By the way, Bella, I think that the way you go about advertising your business is just fine. You actually participate in the community, go to gatherings, etc. - I mean, you don't just show up here when you have a new video to push. Your biz link is tucked away in your .sig, and you're not spouting off about your site every five minutes.

In fact, a couple other producers are like that. I have no problem with it.

When there's a few of you. When there's a few dozen of you, that's when I sigh and wonder if anyone here isn't trying to make a buck.

Anyway, my point of view isn't really a criticism so much as an observation. Like I said before, I don't expect it to change.

 

[meangry]

I think the symptom is simple; why give away what you can get paid for?

I mean, at the end of the day, what are you going to get by doing an amateur clip? An "Attaboy"? You aren't going to get critiques on lighting, nor are you going to get it on the production, the story, or just the action. You will get lines from people saying they liked it with a few who might pm you and ask to tickle you or your girlfriend or something.

At the very least, you should make some scratch.