Does Race Still Matters?

[MrMacphisto]

I disagree. I don't think we discriminate so much on the basis of class. Some people hate poor people because they are poor, but those people are assholes and thankfully, there are not many of them. I don't think we discriminate so much on the basis of race either, except (as Ticklishgiggle rightly points out) via affirmative action - which is the last legalized form of racial discrimination left in America. But in terms of what most people are talking about when they talk about race, class and culture, it's just that both class and race are closely tied to culture and (more importantly) sub-culture, and that's the locus of our problem (if it is a problem).

I think it seems like we discriminate on the basis of race and class because some poor minorities are members of subcultural groups that are regularly discriminated against.

Well, I'm not saying that people hate the poor necessarily, I'm saying that our society tends to favor the rich. When people talk of tax cuts, they tend to make the most cuts for the rich. When people hire others, they usually either pick a minority to follow the affirmative action principle or some white person with connections. It's the working class white people that tend to get overlooked, especially the poor ones.

If we altered affirmative action to reflect class instead of race, then we'd be helping the poor of all races. If minorities are concerned about this proposition, they should know that, for example, blacks are disproportionately poor. We'd still help the poor blacks, but the middle class and rich ones don't need help. The same goes for any other race. You usually don't need help against discrimination if you've got a decent amount of money already.

 

[wendynpeter]

Well, I'm not saying that people hate the poor necessarily, I'm saying that our society tends to favor the rich.

Of course it does, and that in and of itself cannot be a problem in a capitalist country.

When people talk of tax cuts, they tend to make the most cuts for the rich.

That's exactly right. I guess the American people feel that the rich should get tax breaks. Go figure.

When people hire others, they usually either pick a minority to follow the affirmative action principle or some white person with connections. It's the working class white people that tend to get overlooked, especially the poor ones.

Well, let's put it like this. Everyone looking for a job these days is going to be either helped or hurt by a social policy that was unconstitutional in its conception, and certainly has no place in today's world.

If we altered affirmative action to reflect class instead of race, then we'd be helping the poor of all races.

And if we eliminated affirmative action altogether, things would actually be fair. We don't need affirmative action any more, it's just become another social issue that liberals have twisted into a political lightening rod.

You usually don't need help against discrimination if you've got a decent amount of money already.

Unless you're a white male trying to get into college or looking for a job...

 

[Goodieluver]

Race will always be an issue because it is human nature to look at the differences of people.

I personally have my stereotypes and feelins but i will simply say i have met assholes of all colors

AA has grown out of control, because people have this mindset that they deserve the world, if someone doesnt get a job, they immediately cry racism. I wanna try to see if it would work for a regular white person like myself, like can i go into an ethnic neighborhood, like china town perhaps, and try for a job and if i dont get it, i can say they are racist? I mean sure i dont speak the language or dont have the qualifications but i WANT the job!

AA devalues someones work, because it may not be that you genuinely got the job due to your merrits. Simply being born black or hispanic or any minority shouldnt be considered "reward" worthy



And doesnt matter how many years of breeding, people will see the differences, hell in brazil i believe, they are the most segregated nation in the world and they classify you not just on skin color, people should stop worryin abour race and worry about the class issues

One of my fave quotes is from OZ "Maybe instead of teaching our kids that we are all unique and different, we should teach them that we are all the same, living on the same earth, breathing the same air"

 

[MrMacphisto]

Of course it does, and that in and of itself cannot be a problem in a capitalist country.

So widespread poverty isn't a problem to you?

That's exactly right. I guess the American people feel that the rich should get tax breaks. Go figure.

American corporations certainly feel that way. I don't think you could say that the average citizen feels that the rich should get more of a break.

And if we eliminated affirmative action altogether, things would actually be fair. We don't need affirmative action any more, it's just become another social issue that liberals have twisted into a political lightening rod.

Is it just me, or is everything a liberal conspiracy to you?

Unless you're a white male trying to get into college or looking for a job...

Give me a break. I'm a white male. I had no problem getting into college. I've had few problems getting a job either. If I was poor, I'm sure this would be different, but I'm working class.

 

[pghtickleguy]

Just by all the debate that is going on I think its safe to say that racism is alive,well, and kicking in this country. Ask yourself when telling a story if it is a minority involved do you say this guy or girl or do you say that black guy or white girl? Why can't it be just guy or girl? How about the times a black guy is called boy? You don't think that is racist? Minorities don't get as many breaks as people think. Just along with what kis123 commented on about being one of two minorities in her company. I work for a retail company that is has locations in 4 states. In my area there are a handful of minority managers but you can count on one hand that are my position. When I still have people who have seen me know I am a boss who works there and clutches there purse when I go by, what do you call it? I even had a person who I had been in contact with from this very site who lives only a few short miles from me but when finding out about my race all of the sudden all contact ended. What might that be??? I am very interested to see that F/X tv series next month. For the one's who have not actually been apart of racism at its best I'm sure you will see just how society really is. I would like to think that in my lifetime that it might fade away but that is not likely to happen. Here's a question for everyone. Lets say hypothetically Colin Powell ran for president. Would you vote for him? How about Hillary Clinton would you vote for her. I'll even throw in Ross Perot just to make things a bit more interesting. Be honest who would it be?

 

[wendynpeter]

So widespread poverty isn't a problem to you?

Of course it's a problem. It's just that the problem of poverty these days doesn't stem from racism. Like, at all.

American corporations certainly feel that way. I don't think you could say that the average citizen feels that the rich should get more of a break.

Corporations don't vote. Besides, the tax structure has nothing to do with the decline of the American middle class.

Is it just me, or is everything a liberal conspiracy to you?

Since the 1970s, the liberals have run this country into the fucking ground, my friend. Liberals suck at government. There are some excellent moderate Democrats. But liberals tend to be socialists, and you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. It's just that simple.

Give me a break. I'm a white male. I had no problem getting into college. I've had few problems getting a job either. If I was poor, I'm sure this would be different, but I'm working class.

When did you go to college? How long have you had the same job you have now? Where do you live? Do you live in a big city? I mean, I don't know what to tell you. Around here, AA is a definite factor in college admissions and job offers.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Of course it's a problem. It's just that the problem of poverty these days doesn't stem from racism. Like, at all.

I agree. If you'll notice, I've been promoting a switch of policy toward helping the poor regardless of race.

Corporations don't vote. Besides, the tax structure has nothing to do with the decline of the American middle class.

Corporations do vote. They're called lobbyists, and they have billions to bribe politicians with.

Since the 1970s, the liberals have run this country into the fucking ground, my friend. Liberals suck at government. There are some excellent moderate Democrats. But liberals tend to be socialists, and you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. It's just that simple.

...and conservatives don't suck at government? Hmmm, where did our economic growth go since 2001? Where did our budget surplus go? Why has every month in the last few years brought us higher trade deficits and lower foreign investment? You need to stop blaming liberals for everything, because conservatives are just as bad, if not worse. You guys now have the power to make the necessary changes, now get something done for once. You have the presidency and both houses of Congress, what more could you possibly want from us?

When did you go to college? How long have you had the same job you have now? Where do you live? Do you live in a big city? I mean, I don't know what to tell you. Around here, AA is a definite factor in college admissions and job offers.

I live in Greensboro, NC. It's a good city for jobs and quite affordable. You should consider moving here, especially if you're looking for a good place to raise a family.

 

[wendynpeter]

Corporations do vote. They're called lobbyists, and they have billions to bribe politicians with.

MrMac, surely you know that for the first time in history, more than 50% of Americans are stockholders. The American people elect and re-elect their Representatives. I have to believe that if the American people were unhappy with the way one of them voted, that representative wouldn't come back.

Yes, there are indeed lobbyists - LOL and their influence is a problem, I think. But again, if the American people aren't demanding lobbying reform ...

...and conservatives don't suck at government?

Sure, some do. But conservatives haven't ruined our educational systems, or saddled us with jillions of social theories and programs that not only haven't worked, but have created an untire underclass who won't take advantage of the opportunities placed on their doorstep and have given birth to the most self-defeating subculture the world has ever known.

As for economic growth, that's cyclical, and has nothing to do with who's on first. You know that.