"Ethnic Cleansing" Computer Game

[Strelnikov]

Please read this post all the way through, and try to spend at least 30 seconds thinking about it, before you post a flaming response. It’s aimed at our American members. Hal and Marauder, let’s wait to see what responses this gets before you join in.

Reported in the “Dallas Morning News”: Neo-Nazi groups are distributing a new computer game called “Ethnic Cleansing”, built using Genesis3D software. The object is to travel through a ghetto or subway environment and kill Jews, Blacks, Hispanics and other assorted sub-humans. At the game’s highest level, the opponent is Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. It was released on 21 Jan 2002 – Martin Luther King Day. It’s selling as fast as the games can be packaged for shipment.

Game industry and civil rights group spokesmen have denounced the game. Among the objections raised was the desensitizing effect on the target audience. Kids who already lean that way might be encouraged to act, while others might think, “I’m not going to do it, but it’s OK if someone else does.”

Here’s the question before the house: Should this type of game be banned in America? Should the ban apply to ALL violent games, or only the ones that are racist, homophobic, mysogynist, etc.? Why or why not?


Strelnikov

 

[BellyTicklerX]

No.

While I hate racist, homophobic, sexist, facist nazi motherfuckers as much as anyone else sane, free speech IS indeed free speech.

Censorship is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS a bad thing.

an old friend of mine once said "yes I would fight for the right for the KKK to march in my town because I believe in free speech. But I also believe in free will, so when they do come I plan on throwing rocks at them"

 

[Dave2112]

Yes, censorship is a bad thing...but regulation isn't. Doesn't this game fall under the Hate-Crime laws? Not everything can be covered under freedom of speech. The fact that this game was even made, let alone marketed, released and supported makes me sick.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Freedom of speech is very important. So, I say NO...it shouldn't be banned. But, that doesn't mean that I don't totally hate the idea and think those who developed it are sick puppies. At the same time, perhaps a counter effort should be made to produce material that is encouraging of interracial/ethnic friendships. Better yet... let's have some good educational material about how much alike we all are. When we start looking at the similarities rahter than just the differences, it's harder to hate.

Ann

 

[Zebra]

I'm not chiming in for "pro" on this...but Dave, you said this might fall under hate crime. What crime are they committing? It's a video game...It's not the actual crime.

There is a difference. Have you seen Grand Theft Auto 3? It's another game all about crime, but again, it's a game. I don't think this would be considered a "hate crime". There is something very, very wrong with having this game out there.

Oh...and to TicklingDuo. I have frineds that work in the industry of gaming. There isn't a huge profitable market to create material that is educational or about "friendships".

Going after Hispanics, Jews, Blacks is what this game promotes, and we're all against it. I don't think that anyone on these boards has stood up against other games...like "Max Payne", where a NYPD officer that had his wife and child shot goes on a shooting spree...shooting ANYONE that gets in his way...cops, bad guys, men, women...ANYONE.

We're not going against "Command and Conquer"...a game where we purposely kill the U.S.S.R. with weaponry including nukes.

We're not going against Big Hollywood, which gets away with showing heroic murders all the time.

Like I said...I'm not FOR this type of game. I think for us to ask if it should be banned is like asking to stop a freight train with a cap gun. It's too late. There's too much "yuck" in our world to say "oh, let's stop this because it's no good"...There's too much other "no good" for us to say STOP now.

-Zebra

 

[venray]

Have to agree with Dave on this one..The fact that there is even such a thing produced is a "crime", but being that it is probabably not against any law to produce such a game, I would have to say no to banning it. We can see to it that it is regulated the same way in which all games are by having appropriate warnings put on it. I can guarantee you that you wont see it on any video store shelves....


Ven

 

[P.H. Tickler]

What about Aliens?

Hey, what about the anti-alien sentiment rampant in the videogame industry?
Seriously tho, A game targeting ethnic groups is just plain wrong in anyone's book, but a ban on violent games would SUCK!
The issue should be kept separate, and there should be a ban on racist games, or racist anything... but leave the rest of the game content alone!!!
How fun would Grand Theft Auto 3 be if there were no guns? (or rocket launchers or flame throwers)
Imagine that new Obi Wan game with no lightsaber....Yawn.
Kids are more de-sensitized by TV than anything else... Video games don't make violent children, violent parents do.

 

[WallStreet]

I remember reading an article about this game a few weeks ago. The majority of predjudice is inhereted. This video game is a demented way for racially biased parents to preach to their kids and make it fun at the same time. The kids that are brainwashed by this game will bring an irreversable hatred into their adult years. The worst part is that they won't even realise that they are wrong. Predjudice will come as natural to them the same way that video games come natural for a kid.

 

[Strelnikov]

No disparagement intended, your responses are about what I expected on a forum of this sort. Let's narrow the field and restrict discussion to effects on people under age 18. I think that a good case can be made for a total ban on presentation, sale or distribution of ALL media in the murder-as-entertainment genre. Not just games, but music and movies as well.

Industry spokesmen make the self-serving assertion that what kids watch, and the games they play, have no effect on behavior. They're supported by First Amendment absolutists on free expression grounds. If hard pressed, these people may concede that violent media just might push a marginal kid over the edge. But they'll tell you that it's an acceptable price to pay for free expression. Otherwise, the sky will fall.

The first part is a cynical lie. If matters were otherwise, the advertising industry wouldn't exist.

As for the second, modern Germany will not tolerate anything that even hints of Nazis. Anyone distributing a game like "Ethnic Cleansing" would risk criminal penalties. Despite this restriction on free expression, the Germans somehow manage to have a democratically governed free society.

Seems to me that a carefully crafted program of censorship would do more good than harm. Anyone care to argue the opposing view?

Strelnikov

 

[hawkikim]

Seems to me that a carefully crafted program of censorship would do more good than harm. Anyone care to argue the opposing view?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, 1759.

Hey, I'm first in line to agree that the idea of this "game" is tasteless, ugly and vile. I feel that way about a LOT of video/computer games.

BUT...I will never, EVER argue in favor of censorship in any form. Once you drill that little hole in that dike, you set loose the floodwaters. The Bill of Rights wasn't just written for me & those people who happen to agree with me. It's meant for EVERYONE.

That being said, though whoever created that vile piece of garbage has the right to create it, promote it, sell it, whatever....we all also have the right to speak out against it and encourage people not to support it.

IMHO,
Kimmie

 

[Strelnikov]

Slippery Slopes...

I wondered when that would crop up. There are already restrictions on free speech that serve valid purposes. For example, "incitement to riot" is a crime.

But the fault is partly mine. Re-reading my last post, I see that I should have made it clear that the censorship I propose should apply only to minors, just as we restrict sales of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. I agree, with some reservations, that material intended for adults should not be censored. Otherwise, I stand by my stated views. Any other takers?

Strelnikov

 

[ShiningIce]

What store in their right mind would sell this game???????????

 

[MadKalnod]

I don't buy the argument that exposure to violent media automatically means a development into a violent personality. I was raised on Warner Brothers cartoons where dismemberement was presented as humorous. As a youth I saw dozens of fiery deaths in Speed Racer, Ultraman, and Star Blazers. Even now, my requirements for a good movie include swordfights and/or explosions at the very minimum. My favorite music includes battle themes from film scores and heavy metal dirges about Vikings (Manowar). I read comics where, just going though this month's stack, sucking a man's small intestine into a bagless vacuum cleaner is a punchline (Warren Ellis's Strange Killings from Avatar Press); and I play tabletop wargames/RPGs where much of the fun comes from finding new and inventive means to dispatch your opponents. If the theory is true, I should be tearing people's throats out with my teeth by now. That just isn't true. In fact, I'm so non-confrontational that I make Deepak Chopra look like OddJob. I would sooner nail both hands to the table than raise one in anger.

I put it to you that violent video games do not make kids into violent freaks, rather that already-violent nutcases are attracted to violent media. I do not recall the wise soul who said (I want to say P.J. O'Rourke, but I could be wrong) taht the biggest obstacle to achieving world peace is that violence is so interesting. If children do become violent from media exposure, it is because their parents have allowed the television to be the only supervision their children receive. Banning violent video games is just the latest manifestation of the same root cause: too many Baby-Boomer parents (and indeed, the first generation or two of their spawn) are too swept up in their own monstruous self-absorption to do what is necessary to raise a child properly. They expect the Media to do it for them, and when the Media inevitably fails, they look to Government to force the Media into being parental. The problem is not that the Government must pass laws and create bureacracy to restrict the Media from giving violent/explicit material to children, it is that parents must have the intelligence and judgement and courage to tell their child that they simply will not permit them to see inappropriate content. The video-game industry isn't sending elite Ninja commando teams to smuggle copies of Duke Nuk'em: Planet of the Babes beneath 3rd-Graders pillows in the dead of night, the parents are buying it for them. For the love of Natalie Portman's toenails, you wanted rating labels on TV shows, Movies, CDs, & Video Games; now read the frelling things and make a responsible decision based on them!

I've heard people say that it's everywhere and they can't stop their kids from seeing it. Nonsense. I just saw the proof which lays waste to that excuse in action this weekend. I was staying at the home of a friend and his wife, who have adopted three boys in order to rescue them from their biological parents addled by drugs, booze, and general Grand-Mal shit-headedness. At one point the 16-year-old is flipping channels, and settles on MTV to watch Pink's latest video, oblivious to the 7-year-old behind him. Within minutes, my friend's wife asks "She's prancing around in her underwear. Is that the sort of thing little J_____ should be seeing?" The older boy grudgingly agrees that it is not, and changes the channel. You see? They can be taught responsibility! There is nothing stopping every other parent from doing the same.

As for the matter of the Neo-Nazi game manufacturers, I think the best thing to do is to gather up the NAACP, the JADL, and other anti-Hate goups, shake 'em up, and point 'em at the skinheads all at once. No need to waste taxpayer money on the bureacracy needed to enforce a ban when a host of private citizens' groups stand ready, willing, and able to sue the knuckle-draggers into oblivion.

Also, I got the impression from Strel's account that the game is not available in stores. It sounds more like something Neo-Nazis are selling undergound by themselves, either on the net or through their newsletters. There is no danger of finding it at EBX or Toys R US. A general ban won't help if they're already operating through less-than-legal channels.

 

[Dave2112]

Just to make things clear, my post was regarding this particular game, not violent games in general. I play a ton of shooters and the like, no harm done.

I don't condone banning it outright, I was reffering to hate-crime laws as a reference, something to gauge by. But you know, just because something is legal...

It was like Malcom's character in Jurassic Park (who was a much better character in the book than the hokey film) extoling the evils of what the scientists had done.

"You spent so much on finding out if you could, that you never thought if you should."

That's all.

 

[JoBelle]

Well,

As a rule, I'm opposed to video games. I don't have them in my home. I won't have them in my home. I think they are a waste of time. My personal take on video games is that repetitive actions that allow you to totally tune out life are not at all productive. Sure, it's entertainment to some, but not in my village. I get ZERO entertainment from pretending to kill or harm another person. That's what most of the games I've seen are about. Sure, there are race cars and aliens, and the others, but for the most part, it's person to person comabt and I have no love for that. What good comes from those "games?" If someone could just answer that for me? What drives you to want to even "PLAY" at blowing someone's head off? I just don't get it. Read a book, pick up a bow and arrow, go shoot some clay birds.....umm...you know....something tangible??

I've got enough worries teaching my son the harshness of reality. I have to eagle eye the news, pre read the books, and watch out for the freaks in the world who are out to target kids. I want him to be a child as long as possible with just enough of the real world that he doesn't get culture shock when I can't be on guard for him all the time. Adding play time murder to that is just sad.

That disclaimer being said, I think a video games as decribed by Strel falls in cluster with the old "Faces of Death" movies. TASTELESS. Legal and Pathetic and Tastless.

It's a pathetic claim founded on the rigid fears of an uneducated group of people who hate without reason and are so low that they are out to make a buck off of their so called moral stance against those who are different.

Wow, ok, didn't know I had that bottled up in me!
Joby

 

[Ayla ny]

I am raising my children in a way that ensures that they will find a game like this every bit as disgusting as I do.

the children whose parents would allow or condone a game like this have been damaged in a way that robs them of the ability to love. not the mushy 'holding hands' kind of love... but love of your fellow man. love of differences in people. love of cultures and heritages that are not your own.

I would not object to legal age limits on a game like this at all. X-rated films, tobacco and alcohol already have these restrictions... but sadly, it doesn't always keep these things out of the reach of children. that requires actual parenting.

also... most of this game's 'advertising' is going to be in the debates it spurs. another necessary evil in freedom of speech.



what am I doing at TMF? oh... just keeping up on current events.

 

[Strelnikov]

"The biggest obstacle to achieving world peace is that violence is so interesting." Sounds like P. J. O'Rorke to me also.

As MK pointed out, children who have responsible parents aren't likely to get into trouble. Ayla's kids, or Joby's, or mine, could be trusted with "Ethnic Cleansing" - it would repulse them. But what about the others? Keeping violent media of all sorts out of their hands is probably a very good idea. If their parents won't do so, maybe the rest of us should.

I started this thread because I don't know all of the answers. I had hoped that there would have been more polarization of viewpoints. Hal and Marauder, if you're monitoring this thread, do join in. I'd like to see your views on this topic.

Strelnikov

 

[TheRhythmDoctor]

It's interesting how both Marauder and Haltickling have not yet decided on whether or not they will respond to this thread.

The Rhythm Doctor

 

[guitman69]

if you're parenting responsibly, your kids will get the right message about hatred in all it's forms.

Also, any kid with responsible parents isn't gonna play this game anyway. This kind of game is only gonna be bought by racist parents who every day are telling their kids that these people are below them because they're not white. Hell, they even tell their kids that they aren't even HUMAN! These kids are already being raised in an environment of hate and violence, do you really think a video game is gonna make them any worse?

 

[Strelnikov]

Hidden Agenda...

I started this thread to talk about censorship. I chose "Ethnic Cleansing" because the moral content of the game is not in question. I asked Hal and Marauder to hold off because I wanted to see the American responses first. So far, I seem to be the only one who is comfortable with the idea of even limited censorship.

Why did I single out Hal and Marauder? Because they are Germans. Germany is a free society with few legal restrictions on free expression. Their laws make exception for racist material, which (help me out here) I understand to be illegal. I've invited them to join because It's time for an insider's view as to how well those restrictions work, and what effect they seem to have (positive or negative) on society.

Strelnikov