Have you ever used compress air?

[stloldg]

Have anyone ever used or been tickled by compress air, like the air that in a can used to clean keyboards?

 

[Squeechan]

Hmm.... I've never heard of that.... Now that you mention it, I'm curious about it now, lol.

 

[Goodieluver]

No i havent but i assume it would work pretty well, with my current 'lee, just breathin on her toes tickles her crazy

 

[Cokecan]

Be careful with that stuff.. it can contain 1,1,1,2-tetraflouroethane .. which is known to cause frostbite if it comes into contact with flesh, if it is liquid form (which can happen if the nozzle is pushed incorrectly.

 

[stloldg]

Be careful with that stuff.. it can contain 1,1,1,2-tetraflouroethane .. which is known to cause frostbite if it comes into contact with flesh, if it is liquid form (which can happen if the nozzle is pushed incorrectly.

i used it once and it left a mark on my wife foot for about 4 months. something i dont' recommend using.

 

[isabeau]

Be careful with that stuff.. it can contain 1,1,1,2-tetraflouroethane .. which is known to cause frostbite if it comes into contact with flesh, if it is liquid form (which can happen if the nozzle is pushed incorrectly.

i would listen to Cokecan he knows his shit oops sorry about that language lol but he is super smart

isabeau

 

[Redmage]

The basic issue is that the propellant in those things is a liquified fluorocarbon that expands as the pressure is released. As it expands it gets cold (the process is called adiabatic cooling).

This is a standard effect with most aerosol cans. Women might have noticed that a can of hairspray gets cooler if it's used continuously for a while - same process. The only possible problem with compressed air is if you hold it very close to the skin some of the cooling propellant can hit the skin before it warms again in the outside air.

This isn't a problem if it happens once or twice - heck you can get spattered with liquid nitrogen and not suffer any harm from small droplets. The problem occurs only if the stream of cooling air/propellant is held in the same spot for some time. In that case you might see some localized frost damage, just as you might if you held an ice cube in the same place too long.

 

[stloldg]

my wife skin

my wife have very sensitive skin, that is the reason why i wouldn't use it on her again.

 

[ShadowTklr]

This is a definite no-no.

 

[Redmage]

This is a definite no-no.

Would you use ice in a tickling scene? If so, how do you see this as different?

 

[darkscar]

just dont turn the can upside down and you should be fine. if the can gets to cold, the air pressure will start going down and you wont be as strong as it was when you first started spraying it.

 

[chrisheaven]

brrrrrrrrrrr1 sounds cold

 

[TikleBelly]

Would you use ice in a tickling scene? If so, how do you see this as different?

It's different because what comes out of the can of compressed air is usually much colder than ice. Even an exposure of a second can freeze and kill that part of the skin.

So be careful!

 

[ShadowTklr]

Would you use ice in a tickling scene? If so, how do you see this as different?

Here are my own personal reasons for endorsing ice over “canned air” (even though I don’t use ice in tickling):

Ice cubes are 32 degrees and do not expand from a liquid to a gas when applied to the skin.​

Ice does not use a liquid propellant, such as hydrogen or possibly chlorofluoromethane under extreme concentrated pressure.​

Ice does not have the potential to cause respiratory distress from inhaling its fumes, and does not come with a warning label to use only in properly ventilated areas;​

Ice does not, by its very nature, have the potential to cause tissue cell damage by applying it to the skin longer than 2 consecutive seconds.​

Ice does not have a warning label that says “Do not apply directly to the skin.”​

Now, I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking “can I spray for one second or two?” And to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being this is Canned Air - the most powerful propellant in the world-and it will freeze your toes clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk!?"

 

[Redmage]

It's different because what comes out of the can of compressed air is usually much colder than ice. Even an exposure of a second can freeze and kill that part of the skin.

Speaking as a chemist, I can't think of any reason why this should be true. How do you know this?

Here are my own personal reasons for endorsing ice over “canned air” (even though I don’t use ice in tickling):

Ice cubes are 32 degrees and do not expand from a liquid to a gas when applied to the skin.​

Ice does not use a liquid propellant, such as hydrogen or possibly chlorofluoromethane under extreme concentrated pressure.​

Ice does not have the potential to cause respiratory distress from inhaling its fumes, and does not come with a warning label to use only in properly ventilated areas;​

Ice does not, by its very nature, have the potential to cause tissue cell damage by applying it to the skin longer than 2 consecutive seconds.​

Ice does not have a warning label that says “Do not apply directly to the skin.”​

Several thoughts here, and now I'm putting on my chemist hat.

Expanding from a liquid to a gas is not inherently dangerous. Hairspray does the very same thing (and usually uses similar propellants, in fact). Hydrogen is NOT used as a propellant in ANYTHING - not because it's especially cold, but because it's highly explosive (remember the Hindenberg).

I don't have any empirical evidence that the propellant used in "canned air" is colder than 32 degrees out of the can, but I do know that liquid nitrogen is much colder than that, and I have both felt and seen liquid N2 spattered on the skin with no ill effect (it feels a bit like snow).

The issue is one of thermodynamics: is so much heat transferred from the skin in the process of warming the cool material that the skin drops below a safe temperature itself? The answer is "almost certainly not," given the tiny droplets of propellant that persist in liquid form after leaving the can. A 20-gram piece of ice will soak up a LOT more heat (several thousand times more) than a few milligrams of liquid fluorocarbon.

The canned air that I've seen is not dangerous to inhale, and has no ventilation warning. In fact it's designed to be used in an ordinary office environment, to blow dirt out of keyboards and electronic components.

I know of no "2-second limit" for exposure to canned air. Where are you getting this?

And last but not least, ice does have a "warning label" with regard to skin contact. It's not written ON the ice, naturally, but if you read any guide to preparing and using ice packs you'll see the warning not to apply ice directly to the skin. The reason is the possibility of frostbite, but this is a problem only if the ice is held in one place for some little while.

So, I'm not sure where most of these ideas are coming from, but based on my personal and professional experience I'm not seeing the risks here.

 

[robmic]

Compressed air.........

This is interesting. While I totally agree with everyone about not using the "canned" air, if you're like me and have the proper equipment, I can see that it could be quite fun and harmless. Being a car guy, I have an air compressor and the right type of "blow gun" that would work sweet. Using this equipment, you can regulate the pressure down to about 15psi, and you use one ot those blow guns that has a long throw trigger that allows you to apply the air as little or as much as you want. And by being regulated to such a low pressure, you are pretty safe concerning any possible harm. But, there is just enough air there to tickle like hell when applied between a couple of toes! 😱 😱
I think I'll have to try that sometime! 😎 For those of you that don't have this type of equipment, I will take reservations on a first come, first served basis.

 

[TikleBelly]

Speaking as a chemist, I can't think of any reason why this should be true. How do you know this? ......

So, I'm not sure where most of these ideas are coming from, but based on my personal and professional experience I'm not seeing the risks here.

I get this from observing first...

If one turns the can upside down a sprays the liquid out onto a surface it causes frost to form, meaning it is at least as cold as ice.

Secondly, it forms this frost in seconds, so the thermal gradient must be very high to cause such rapid cooling, therefore it is significantly colder than ice.

Also, here is a link to a warning label on can of Dust Off.
http://www.falconsafety.com/default.aspx?pageid=94


.

 

[TikleBelly]

This is interesting. While I totally agree with everyone about not using the "canned" air, if you're like me and have the proper equipment, I can see that it could be quite fun and harmless. Being a car guy, I have an air compressor and the right type of "blow gun" that would work sweet......

Oh yes, using and air compressor with the right nozzle can be a lot of fun!

 

[Redmage]

I get this from observing first...

If one turns the can upside down a sprays the liquid out onto a surface it causes frost to form, meaning it is at least as cold as ice.

As I said, so is liquid nitrogen - much colder, in fact. But what determines damage to the skin is not temperature so much as mass - that's the primary factor in drawing heat away from the skin. That's why a droplet of liquid nitrogen splashing on the skin doesn't cause damage, whereas immersing your hand in a whole flask of the stuff definitely would, and quickly.

As I noted, the heat sink formed by several grams of water ice will pull much more heat out of the skin than that provided by a few scattered droplets of liquid fluorocarbon.

Also, here is a link to a warning label on can of Dust Off.
http://www.falconsafety.com/default.aspx?pageid=94

Thanks, but I have a can of the stuff in my hand at the moment.

The reason it advises against spraying in "enclosed spaces" is the risk of producing an explosive mixture. When it says "enclosed" it means really enclosed - a paper bag, trash container, or paper shredder, for example. It's perfectly safe to use in an ordinary room. In fact, that's what it's designed for.

The reference to liquid contents POSSIBLY causing frostbite is the sort of thing that they have to put on these labels, because otherwise some idiot might turn the can upside down and dispense a large quantity of the propellant onto his skin, then sue them because they didn't warn him not to be an idiot. As I noted above, it's mass that gets you with this sort of thing, not temperature.

I just took my own can of Dust-Off and sprayed it for 10 seconds directly onto my arm, from a distance of about two inches from the skin. It felt mildly cool, like the air from a refrigerator. But there is no mark, no damage, not even the threat of damage. So I can say for certain that your claim that "Even an exposure of a second can freeze and kill that part of the skin" is proven false by experiment.

Exercise your own risk tolerance, of course. But my practical and scientific opinion is that the risks being discussed here are exagerrated.

 

[isabeau]

may i ask rather a dumb question? what does compressed air do? i realize its cold or something like ice, but forgive my ignorance.

isabeau

 

[Redmage]

may i ask rather a dumb question? what does compressed air do? i realize its cold or something like ice, but forgive my ignorance.

It's not all that cold, really. It's usually used to blow dust out of hard-to-reach areas like computer keyboards. The reason it came up here is that a focused burst of compressed air can tickle sensitive skin on some people.

 

[TikleBelly]

As I said, so is liquid nitrogen - much colder, in fact. But what determines damage to the skin is not temperature so much as mass - that's the primary factor in drawing heat away from the skin. That's why a droplet of liquid nitrogen splashing on the skin doesn't cause damage, whereas immersing your hand in a whole flask of the stuff definitely would, and quickly.

The basic physics you state is completely correct.

As I noted, the heat sink formed by several grams of water ice will pull much more heat out of the skin than that provided by a few scattered droplets of liquid fluorocarbon.

Regarding ice, a pound of it will have more heat differential than a gram of the liquid propellant in the Dust-Off, however you need a large thermal differential to make the heat flow rapidly. That's what the liquid propellant gives you. And ice cube in one spot will not cause skin damage in the same short period of time that the liquid propellant can. That's the safety concern.

Thanks, but I have a can of the stuff in my hand at the moment.

The reason it advises against spraying in "enclosed spaces" is the risk of producing an explosive mixture. When it says "enclosed" it means really enclosed - a paper bag, trash container, or paper shredder, for example. It's perfectly safe to use in an ordinary room. In fact, that's what it's designed for.

I completely agree.

The reference to liquid contents POSSIBLY causing frostbite is the sort of thing that they have to put on these labels, because otherwise some idiot might turn the can upside down and dispense a large quantity of the propellant onto his skin, then sue them because they didn't warn him not to be an idiot. As I noted above, it's mass that gets you with this sort of thing, not temperature.

Well it is actually the mass and the temperature. But I understand what you are saying.
You correctly state that the warning on the Dust-Off can about frostbite is because someone may actually turn the can upside down and spray the liquid on the skin. That is exactly why Cokecan said be careful with it. This is not a rare occurrence especially with a full can, tilting a can more that 45 degrees or so can cause the liquid to spray out. A couple of seconds of that released on the same spot can cause frostbite.

I just took my own can of Dust-Off and sprayed it for 10 seconds directly onto my arm, from a distance of about two inches from the skin. It felt mildly cool, like the air from a refrigerator. But there is no mark, no damage, not even the threat of damage. So I can say for certain that your claim that "Even an exposure of a second can freeze and kill that part of the skin" is proven false by experiment.

I assume that you did not turn the can up side down and perform that test!
I suggest that your experiment is not valid to the question. If you turn that full can of Dust-Off upside down and spray the liquid on one spot, it will cause frostbite.

Exercise your own risk tolerance, of course. But my practical and scientific opinion is that the risks being discussed here are exagerrated.

Well that really is the point. You believe that it is a low risk and I believe it is low if it is used with care, but it would be unwise to use the compressed air can to tickle someone without realizing that you can accidentally cause frostbite if it is misused. By misuse I'm talking about tilting the can too far where the liquid sprays out, which is actually quite easy to do. I do not think that is an exaggerated concern.

And yes the stream of air can tickle quite a lot!
.

 

[Redmage]

Regarding ice, a pound of it will have more heat differential than a gram of the liquid propellant in the Dust-Off, however you need a large thermal differential to make the heat flow rapidly. That's what the liquid propellant gives you.

I don't disagree. But there's only so much heat that a few drops of fluorocarbon can absorb, and I submit that it's not enough to pose a threat.

I assume that you did not turn the can up side down and perform that test!
I suggest that your experiment is not valid to the question. If you turn that full can of Dust-Off upside down and spray the liquid on one spot, it will cause frostbite.

Then we're performing different tests. You're asking whether or not a fool could hurt someone with this stuff. The answer is yes, of course - just as a fool could hurt someone with bondage. My test was to determine whether or not it was safe to use with common sense, and the answer is yes.

You believe that it is a low risk and I believe it is low if it is used with care, but it would be unwise to use the compressed air can to tickle someone without realizing that you can accidentally cause frostbite if it is misused. By misuse I'm talking about tilting the can too far where the liquid sprays out, which is actually quite easy to do. I do not think that is an exaggerated concern.

Well, you were originally arguing that it was unsafe to use at all - or at least you didn't propose any way that you believed it could be used safely. I think it's a given that no one should do anything in this kink of ours without knowing the risks and how to avoid them.

 

[ShadowTklr]

Speaking as a chemist, I can't think of any reason why this should be true. How do you know this?

Several thoughts here, and now I'm putting on my chemist hat.

Expanding from a liquid to a gas is not inherently dangerous. Hairspray does the very same thing (and usually uses similar propellants, in fact). Hydrogen is NOT used as a propellant in ANYTHING - not because it's especially cold, but because it's highly explosive (remember the Hindenberg).

I don't have any empirical evidence that the propellant used in "canned air" is colder than 32 degrees out of the can, but I do know that liquid nitrogen is much colder than that, and I have both felt and seen liquid N2 spattered on the skin with no ill effect (it feels a bit like snow).

The issue is one of thermodynamics: is so much heat transferred from the skin in the process of warming the cool material that the skin drops below a safe temperature itself? The answer is "almost certainly not," given the tiny droplets of propellant that persist in liquid form after leaving the can. A 20-gram piece of ice will soak up a LOT more heat (several thousand times more) than a few milligrams of liquid fluorocarbon.

The canned air that I've seen is not dangerous to inhale, and has no ventilation warning. In fact it's designed to be used in an ordinary office environment, to blow dirt out of keyboards and electronic components.

I know of no "2-second limit" for exposure to canned air. Where are you getting this?

And last but not least, ice does have a "warning label" with regard to skin contact. It's not written ON the ice, naturally, but if you read any guide to preparing and using ice packs you'll see the warning not to apply ice directly to the skin. The reason is the possibility of frostbite, but this is a problem only if the ice is held in one place for some little while.

So, I'm not sure where most of these ideas are coming from, but based on my personal and professional experience I'm not seeing the risks here.

Look, I'm not a chemist like you, I'm a psychologist, so I approach things from a common sense standpoint. I don't spray canned air on my skin because there is absolutely NO NEED to do it. And I certainly don't care enough about the level of danger involved to want to spray someone else with it either.

I remember another thread like this where someone was touting the euphoric benefits of inhaling Nitros Oxide during a tickle session. Things like this just strike me as ludicrous. They have shows on television where people go about trying unproven, potentially dangerous activities just for fun - I think its called "Jackass" and "World of Stupid."

So, here is my question: Since the possibility exists for someone to get hurt by spraying Dust-Off on their skin, what would be the purpose in doing so?

Your argument has no merit in that it doesn't matter how small the margin for error is, if doing it serves no logical purpose in the first place.

And, as a final note, if you have experienced no ill effects from spraying yourself with canned air, then I suggest you go about doing it to yourself and not someone else. And please, stop trying to justify the idiocy required in experimenting with chlorofluoromethane. There is no such thing as using dust-off on the skin with "common sense." The common sense is to NOT DO IT!

 

[Redmage]

Look, I'm not a chemist like you, I'm a psychologist, so I approach things from a common sense standpoint. I don't spray canned air on my skin because there is absolutely NO NEED to do it.

Ah, that's another question altogether. If it won't serve your purposes, then you're right - there's no reason to do it.

However the original question - from a common sense standpoint - was whether or not this might work as a tickling technique, and whether anyone has tried it. Now, if you happen to know without trying it that it won't work, then more power to you - and there's no need for you to experiment. Others might want to though, and I didn't think they should be discouraged from doing so by exagerrated claims of danger.

So, here is my question: Since the possibility exists for someone to get hurt by spraying Dust-Off on their skin, what would be the purpose in doing so?

Let me rephrase the question on the way to answering it: "Since the possibility exists for someone to get hurt by using bondage in a tickling scene, what would be purpose in doing so?"

The answer is the same for both questions: because it might enhance the experience for everyone involved, so long as the risks are well-understood and manageable. There's really only one way to find out whether it will or not.

There is no such thing as using dust-off on the skin with "common sense." The common sense is to NOT DO IT!

Based on what, exactly? So far there hasn't been much actual evidence for these claims. Calling something "common sense" is very often just a way of saying "I don't have any good reason I can think of, but I think so anyway and I think everyone else should too."