I'm looking for a new(er) vehicle...(HELP...!!!)

[Faramir]

Well, after many year's of service to my family and myself, the ol' van (dubbed "The Shaggin' Wagon") is starting to show signs of wanting to be euthanised....plus, it's no longer cost effective to keep putting money into its repair's, and it's getting hard to find parts for it.

SSssooooooo, I'm starting to look around. As much as I would love another van (i.e. a '90-'95 Ford E-250 w/the old "straight 6" or a diesel engine), and given the current rise in gas prices, and considering the way the newer American cars are being made (to NOT last) these day's, I'm thinking more along the lines of an older Mercedes Benz or BMW.

Now, all I have really heard about these cars are that they are built to last, but I don't know much else about them...so I'm asking any in this community to share what they know, if you would be so kind.

I'm confused about all those different class, model and series numbers. Could someone please explain all that to me. I went to Barnes and Noble today to see if I could find a book on the subject, but none was there. I've been looking thru the Internet, but nothing really there to help...that I could see.

From what I have seen so far, I'm thinking the Mercedes 300-500 series Sedan's or Coupes, and from the BMW camp, I'm thinking along the 500-700 series. Year models I'm looking at is '80-'90.

I think I'm being practical and logical in my decision to go with the Euro-car's. Am I?

Thanks in advance.

 

[BOFH666]

Yes, damn good decision but take your time in choosing one.

I don't have a great deal of experience with the Mercs, but by and large the 80's cars are built from a solid lump of rock and are, more or less, invincible. However , looking at what you put here as your choices, there's really only two cars that jump out, the BMW 5 or 7 series.

Personally, I'd look more at the 5 than the 7 because the 89 and 90 models of the 5 series where the newer car that carried BMW through the early 90's. If your budget will stretch to it though, try and look around a 92 plate car for reasons we'll get to in a minute.

All BMW's follow the same numbering convetion (umm, well, all the mainstream ones do anyway). The first number of the model gives you the series, so in this case, 5xx would be a 5 series. The other two numbers give you the engine size. So 520 is a 5 series with a 2 litre engine, 535 is a 5 series with a 3.5 litre engine. There are "touring" models (estate cars bascially) and the spec levels are usually i, i SE, and possibly a i SE Sport (or something simillar).

First things first, the engine is all important. BMW make some 5 series with a 4 cylinder power plant that, while being a fine engine, just isn't a real BMW. What you want is at least a 520, as all 2 litre or larger engines in the 5 series are either straight sixes (the ones you want) or V8's (gorgeous but thirsty and not quite as reliable). The reason I said a 1992 car is that BMW did an engine revision around then to change the old six cylinder engines over to a new range, and this really was the start of BMW as we know it today. They're a fair bit smoother and a lot more grunty for about the same fuel economy.

Full service history is vital, and an independent examination, or a warranty, a good option if you can afford it. The spec sheet is a bit... odd in places, but while they're not the last word in gadgets like today's cars, most will come with electric windows, mirrors, sunroof and the rest of the usual toys.

Now I've actually done this trick recently and am currently running a 525i SE bought for a thousand quid and it's been... interesting. The basic car feels rock solid, handles like a dream and, as of this morning, will outdrag a brand new Mercedes S320.Incidentaly the five speed auto box redlines in second at about 78mph. But, and this is something you've got to expect in a car this age, you will have some glitches. In my case there's a loose connection SOMEWHERE in the depths of the electrical system that occasionaly causes the auto gearbox to complain and lock into limp mode. Shutting the engine off and firing it up again solves that easily enough though. Oh, and the steering rack needs a little TLC to sort out a couple of creaks. Aside from that there is virtually nothing wrong with the car, and inside it's quieter and rides better than the current Ford Mondeo.

Not bad for a thirteen year old car.

I think the bottom line is if you get a good one, and are prepared to put in the time needed to keep it running (and at that age things will go wrong) then you won't have too many problems. The car itself is known to do over 200,000 miles routinely, some getting up to over double that. There's a lot of spares in the scrapyards if you need them and it's surprising just how modern it feels inside.

Best advice, even if you're not thinking of an immediate change. go test drive one. That way, if you don't like it, you can always cross it off the list NOW rather than in a few weeks time. Oh and find yourself a good independent mechanic/specalist near you. It can save you a fortune on repair bills.

 

[shylittleme]

Well, after many year's of service to my family and myself, the ol' van (dubbed "The Shaggin' Wagon") is starting to show signs of wanting to be euthanised....plus, it's no longer cost effective to keep putting money into its repair's, and it's getting hard to find parts for it.

SSssooooooo, I'm starting to look around. As much as I would love another van (i.e. a '90-'95 Ford E-250 w/the old "straight 6" or a diesel engine), and given the current rise in gas prices, and considering the way the newer American cars are being made (to NOT last) these day's, I'm thinking more along the lines of an older Mercedes Benz or BMW.

Now, all I have really heard about these cars are that they are built to last, but I don't know much else about them...so I'm asking any in this community to share what they know, if you would be so kind.

I'm confused about all those different class, model and series numbers. Could someone please explain all that to me. I went to Barnes and Noble today to see if I could find a book on the subject, but none was there. I've been looking thru the Internet, but nothing really there to help...that I could see.

From what I have seen so far, I'm thinking the Mercedes 300-500 series Sedan's or Coupes, and from the BMW camp, I'm thinking along the 500-700 series. Year models I'm looking at is '80-'90.

I think I'm being practical and logical in my decision to go with the Euro-car's. Am I?

Thanks in advance.

Take your car to westcoast Customs. and pimp out your ride with some 20 inch rims on it and some Flat panel tvs in the back and front seat of the car. Put in a playstation 2 or xbox in the back seat of the car. etc......😀 😀

 

[Faramir]

to BOFH666...

quote:
"Not bad for a thirteen year old car."

No...not bad at all...!! ...and thanks for all the info, things are a bit clearer now.

I should have added in my post that I'm also considering a diesel powerplant (that would be more on the Benz side I imagine). I'm not built for speed anymore😀 , so I'm more interested in the comfort zone that certain models of these car's would have to offer. Is funny, actually, ...I probably piss-off a lot of other driver's on the motorway/freeway 'cause I tend to drive slower than the posted speed limit(s). 😀

 

[giantfan121262]

Overall....

I think that the Euro model cars are built to last better than the American cars. Withg a mercedes you can crank some heavy milage on them. That does not preempt you from doing some due dillegence. First there is a website I used to look into cars that I was considering.

www.edmunds.com

what that site provides is a TMF (True Market Value)(Funny isn't it 😀 ). You can see what the car is really worth and compare to the asking preice of the seller of the car you are interested in to see if it is a good buy or not. You can actually compare the preice with all the options the car has to offer to get a TRUE value. Then, if it is a good buy in your opinion, take it to a mechanic you trust with your life so he can see any hidden problems that may exist. Although people say a used car warranty is a rip off, I happen to think it's a good idea if you can afford it. It gives you a peace of mind that you can't put a price on. Another thing the edmunds wesite provides is the car under different senarios. It gives you the price to expect to pay if you are buying the car privately, from a dealer as a regular used car, or a certified preowned (being the most expensive, but you are getting assurance that the car has been through an extensive inspection by the dealer so the mechanic inspection won't come into play in this case.

When you buy a used car, there is a little more risk involved. Your job is to minimize that risk.

 

[BOFH666]

Re: to BOFH666...

quote:
"Not bad for a thirteen year old car."

No...not bad at all...!! ...and thanks for all the info, things are a bit clearer now.

I should have added in my post that I'm also considering a diesel powerplant (that would be more on the Benz side I imagine). I'm not built for speed anymore😀 , so I'm more interested in the comfort zone that certain models of these car's would have to offer. Is funny, actually, ...I probably piss-off a lot of other driver's on the motorway/freeway 'cause I tend to drive slower than the posted speed limit(s). 😀

Okay, so I get a little hung up on the speed side of things 😉 In truth the 5 series I've got is one of the most comfortable cars to both drive and ride in that I've ever used. There's a fair chunk of room inside, a big boot and enough space in the front to play table tennis. Of course if you're after the biggest possible space inside, go for the 7 series. Rule of thumb: the 3 series is built more as a sports car, the 7 is a luxury car that handles and the 5 is somewhere in the middle. Oh, and the 5 and 7 are both amazingly quiet, all you really hear is a gentle burble from the engine.

As for the diesels... not sure, but again I'd say stick with the later generation BMW's as I think they got the latest diesel engines JUST within your date range. I'll try to check up on that one for you.

 

[Faramir]

Re: Overall....

I think that the Euro model cars are built to last better than the American cars. Withg a mercedes you can crank some heavy milage on them. That does not preempt you from doing some due dillegence. First there is a website I used to look into cars that I was considering.

www.edmunds.com

what that site provides is a TMF (True Market Value)(Funny isn't it 😀 ). You can see what the car is really worth and compare to the asking preice of the seller of the car you are interested in to see if it is a good buy or not. You can actually compare the preice with all the options the car has to offer to get a TRUE value. Then, if it is a good buy in your opinion, take it to a mechanic you trust with your life so he can see any hidden problems that may exist. Although people say a used car warranty is a rip off, I happen to think it's a good idea if you can afford it. It gives you a peace of mind that you can't put a price on. Another thing the edmunds wesite provides is the car under different senarios. It gives you the price to expect to pay if you are buying the car privately, from a dealer as a regular used car, or a certified preowned (being the most expensive, but you are getting assurance that the car has been through an extensive inspection by the dealer so the mechanic inspection won't come into play in this case.

When you buy a used car, there is a little more risk involved. Your job is to minimize that risk.

Noted...Thanks for the website, I'm sure it will come in very handy. 🙂

 

[steph]

Hi Honey...

I'm partial to Japanese cars--NEVER owned a bad one but have you tried CarMax website? I've several friends report EXCELLENT experiences with them (they sell German cars too.) Just a thought...

XOXO

 

[Faramir]

Re: Hi Honey...

I'm partial to Japanese cars--NEVER owned a bad one but have you tried CarMax website? I've several friends report EXCELLENT experiences with them (they sell German cars too.) Just a thought...

XOXO

thanks Steph, but CarMax only has car's $10,000. and above. Right now anyway, my ceiling is $5,000. that could change, though. with Pop's going through chemo now (and the doc's are saying if it doesn't work, they will only give him 6 to 9 months), I don't know what's ahead. all I know is I need a new ride fairly soon, as the shaggin wagon is gettin' real scary to drive (the front end is unstable). I would rather put the $1000. plus it would take to fix all it's prob's into a newer car...it just makes better sense to go that way. Pops is too sick for me to even think about asking him if he could help me out financing it, so I gotta do this all on my own, and really want to any way. my train of thought is that I'll get more bang for my buck if I go with an older Benz or Beemer. overall, they tend to be much better taken care of.

what I've seen in the local AutoTrader that I've liked is an '82 Benz 380SE for $3600, an '84 Benz 500SEL for $4500, an 85 Benz 300SD for $4900, and a '92 Benz 300E for $6995obo ...and I haven't been able to look at the BMW section yet. I still haven't learned what all the nomenclature's mean yet for the Benz's (thanks to BOFH666 for explaining some of the BMW lingo to me). besides, I'm just looking and learning right now...I wanna wait till I have at least $5000. cash in my pocket to actually go shopping. 😉

 

[BOFH666]

Re: Re: Hi Honey...

what I've seen in the local AutoTrader that I've liked is an '82 Benz 380SE for $3600, an '84 Benz 500SEL for $4500, an 85 Benz 300SD for $4900, and a '92 Benz 300E for $6995obo ...and I haven't been able to look at the BMW section yet. I still haven't learned what all the nomenclature's mean yet for the Benz's (thanks to BOFH666 for explaining some of the BMW lingo to me). besides, I'm just looking and learning right now...I wanna wait till I have at least $5000. cash in my pocket to actually go shopping. 😉

*Looks at Merc prices in the States, has some form of dramatic seizure*

HOW MUCH! Yowzer, that's... umm, a lot. Just looked in the UK autotrader and a 89 500SEL with full service history and all the toys is £1,600. And that's not rare around here, as I said my bimmer cost me just under the £1,000 mark, and I had a list of about twenty cars to go see all in the same price bracket. There's gotta be some cheaper than that surely?

Oh, and while I think about it, you might find the 7 series (and whatever the Merc equivalent is, sorry I'm not up on my Merc models from the 80's) to be a bit cheaper than the equivalent 5 series as fewer people want the extra fuel expense and (potential) running costs if things go wrong.

One thing I would say, if you're in the looking and learning stage, get out there and test drive as much as you can. Not only will it knock cars off your "possibles" list that you don't like, but ANY prestige motor of that age is going to have a few... niggles. By driving a few examples (if you can) of a particular model you can usually figure out what a GOOD one should feel like by all the bad bits on the others 😀

 

[Faramir]

Re: Re: Re: Hi Honey...

*Looks at Merc prices in the States, has some form of dramatic seizure*

HOW MUCH! Yowzer, that's... umm, a lot. Just looked in the UK autotrader and a 89 500SEL with full service history and all the toys is £1,600. And that's not rare around here, as I said my bimmer cost me just under the £1,000 mark, and I had a list of about twenty cars to go see all in the same price bracket. There's gotta be some cheaper than that surely?

Oh, and while I think about it, you might find the 7 series (and whatever the Merc equivalent is, sorry I'm not up on my Merc models from the 80's) to be a bit cheaper than the equivalent 5 series as fewer people want the extra fuel expense and (potential) running costs if things go wrong.

One thing I would say, if you're in the looking and learning stage, get out there and test drive as much as you can. Not only will it knock cars off your "possibles" list that you don't like, but ANY prestige motor of that age is going to have a few... niggles. By driving a few examples (if you can) of a particular model you can usually figure out what a GOOD one should feel like by all the bad bits on the others 😀

WOW...BOFH666...!! that sounds cheap...!! I don't know the exact currency exchange rate for Sterling, but I do know it's not MUCH different from Dollars. I'm guessing the diff is because the Euro car's cost much more initially (brand new, these day's...try in the area of $50,000.) in the US, due to tariff's, shipping, etc. The UK is of course much closer to Germany 😀 and I'm sure BMW's and Benz's are much more the norm for you than for those of us in the US.

so autotrader has gone international?

 

[Ghost2004]

Hi Faramir! If you Live in Canada

www.autotrader.ca is an invaluable site for the auto seeker.

( They probably have US variants as well)

I was able to get rid of my 1997 Chrysler piece of crap, and with the help of a dear friend (😉 ) who knows cars and , albeit on line, helped me search out the perfect one, which we found on Autotrader. ( It is Japaneese btw)

I work for a division of the auto industry and see daily the lack of effort, quality and time and the basically shoddy worksmanship that goes into American vehicles today, so I wholeheartedly agree with your buying foreign.

BOHF: NICE car, man. Wonder what she''d do when put against a Chrysler piece of crap?

Ghostie


*singing a chorus of Janice Joplin's " Oh Lord Won't You Buy Me A Mercedes Benz"

 

[Faramir]

Re: Hi Faramir! If you Live in Canada

www.autotrader.ca is an invaluable site for the auto seeker.

( They probably have US variants as well)

I was able to get rid of my 1997 Chrysler piece of crap, and with the help of a dear friend (😉 ) who knows cars and , albeit on line, helped me search out the perfect one, which we found on Autotrader. ( It is Japaneese btw)

I work for a division of the auto industry and see daily the lack of effort, quality and time and the basically shoddy worksmanship that goes into American vehicles today, so I wholeheartedly agree with your buying foreign.

BOHF: NICE car, man. Wonder what she''d do when put against a Chrysler piece of crap?

Ghostie


*singing a chorus of Janice Joplin's " Oh Lord Won't You Buy Me A Mercedes Benz"

Nope....Texas...!!

but thanks anyway Ghostie 😛

 

[steph]

Oops my bad hon--forgot to ask about your price range! 😀
Well, interest rates are pretty low thru your local credit union if you have decent credit, I'm not looking for a car but they keep sending us notices...

XOXO

 

[Faramir]

Oops my bad hon--forgot to ask about your price range! 😀
Well, interest rates are pretty low thru your local credit union if you have decent credit, I'm not looking for a car but they keep sending us notices...

XOXO

I replied to this via e-mail, steph.

 

[Ayla ny]

European cars... sigh...

my very first car (and the love/car of my life) was an ‘86 Audi 5000S. it rode like I was sitting in my living room and looked absolutely gorgeous until the day it died. I had to send it to the glue factory in 2000 w/out a speck of rust and the engine running like a top. the only problems were in the ‘extras’ (ie leaky moon roof, power windows that stopped going up or down, etc...) and the cost of repairs. I know the Audi wasn’t in your list or European cars... but the cost of repairs on a European car is really something to consider. parts run approximately 4x the average and finding a shop that specializes in European cars is pricey too. my ex husband owns such a garage and I still found maintenance and repairs to be (parts alone being my cost) too high.

upside: they are built like little tanks and last forever.

downside: if something goes wrong, it will cost the kid’s college fund to fix. (in the US anyhow)

regardless, the Audi Quatro is my current dream car. well, either that or an Opal...

 

[Faramir]

well, either that or an Opal...

😀 LOL....they still make Opals...??!! Or am I thinking of something else?

I hear ya on the costs of repairs Ayla, ...I'm just finding out about it, and it is a bit scary, but I have to ask, if I maintain the car as it should be, would it really be that bad?

To BOFH666 : I couldn't find any BMW's in my year range in the autotrader, and the one's that were in there were VERY expensive.

I did get an offer last night that I almost can't refuse. A very wealthy friend of mine has an employee that buys/fixes/re-sells Benz's, and he's got an 85 500SEL "grey ghost", right now, for $5500. ...and...my friend offered to loan me the money to get it. Now, I'm very tempted to take him up on his offer, but I'm not comfortable with owing money to friends. To my friend, $5000. is day money/pocket change, but for me, that's a LOT of money!!! What do you think I should do? 😕

One other question comes to mind: what sort of MPG does a car like this have?

 

[BOFH666]

Test drive it. You might hate it or find something chronicaly wrong with it. If you don't you can start thinking about whether it's worth it or not.

However, and this is a BIG however, do NOT buy a european car if you're going to be struggling for money. At least over on this side of the pond we can raid scrapyards for spares, I suspect you don't have that luxury over there and as Ayla rightly said they are NOT cheap to repair. Put it this way I'm putting about £100 a month (uh, roughly $180) aside from my budget in case of something minor going wrong on the bimmer. Oh, and as for petrol, all depends on your right foot mate 😀 Though that's a big, heavy car so it ain't gonna be great. The big killer though is 'consumables', so exhausts, plugs and most especially tyres need to be in good condition.

If you're after my honest opinion.... well, I'm much the same as you, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with borrowing the cash. I'd have a look at it (can never hurt), maybe see if your mate's mate would do you a warranty or a "if it breaks, you pay for the bits, I'll do the labour for free" deal. End of the day, you've got to be able to keep the thing on the road or it's a little pointless. That said, I do believe a 500SEL is big enough to live in 😉

Just a thought, how about a Honda?

Oh and Ayla sweetie... Audi, I can understand but OPAL!?!? If you're talking about the European brand... you do know they compete with Ford right? And are known in this country as Vauxhalls and (rightly) shunned by other drivers as they lurch past 😉

 

[Faramir]

Test drive it. You might hate it or find something chronicaly wrong with it. If you don't you can start thinking about whether it's worth it or not.

However, and this is a BIG however, do NOT buy a european car if you're going to be struggling for money. At least over on this side of the pond we can raid scrapyards for spares, I suspect you don't have that luxury over there and as Ayla rightly said they are NOT cheap to repair. Put it this way I'm putting about £100 a month (uh, roughly $180) aside from my budget in case of something minor going wrong on the bimmer. Oh, and as for petrol, all depends on your right foot mate 😀 Though that's a big, heavy car so it ain't gonna be great. The big killer though is 'consumables', so exhausts, plugs and most especially tyres need to be in good condition.

If you're after my honest opinion.... well, I'm much the same as you, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with borrowing the cash. I'd have a look at it (can never hurt), maybe see if your mate's mate would do you a warranty or a "if it breaks, you pay for the bits, I'll do the labour for free" deal. End of the day, you've got to be able to keep the thing on the road or it's a little pointless. That said, I do believe a 500SEL is big enough to live in 😉

Just a thought, how about a Honda?

Oh and Ayla sweetie... Audi, I can understand but OPAL!?!? If you're talking about the European brand... you do know they compete with Ford right? And are known in this country as Vauxhalls and (rightly) shunned by other drivers as they lurch past 😉

Yes, I did think about a Honda, and an Acura, and a Maxima, and a Camry, but decided against them for various reason's, some of them being that with the Honda's all the kid's (where I live anyway) buy them up and pimp/trick them out, and I don't want that. Another reason is that they are too small for me. I'm not a giant person, but I have a fairly bad back problem, and all those contortions getting in and out of those 'matchbox' car's gives me one helluva back ache. There is where that comfort zone thing I spoke of about the Merc's applies.

About my friends offer, I sent an e-mail off to him just a bit ago turning down the offer, at least for the time being. Doesn't mean it will end here though.

I still want to go look at it though, and drive it.

 

[giantfan121262]

😀 LOL....they still make Opals...??!! Or am I thinking of something else?

I hear ya on the costs of repairs Ayla, ...I'm just finding out about it, and it is a bit scary, but I have to ask, if I maintain the car as it should be, would it really be that bad?

To BOFH666 : I couldn't find any BMW's in my year range in the autotrader, and the one's that were in there were VERY expensive.

I did get an offer last night that I almost can't refuse. A very wealthy friend of mine has an employee that buys/fixes/re-sells Benz's, and he's got an 85 500SEL "grey ghost", right now, for $5500. ...and...my friend offered to loan me the money to get it. Now, I'm very tempted to take him up on his offer, but I'm not comfortable with owing money to friends. To my friend, $5000. is day money/pocket change, but for me, that's a LOT of money!!! What do you think I should do? 😕

One other question comes to mind: what sort of MPG does a car like this have?

I can understand your dillema about borrowing money from your friend. I hate that as well b/c God forbid something happens where you can't pay it and then he is stuck holding the bag.

A couple of options to consider is that you can line yourself up for financing with your bank and borrow the money from your friend so you can buy the car. then after you are approved fopr the loan, pay your buddy back so you are square with him and make the monthly payments to the bank. You can allso open up a revolving line of credit so that way you may not have to borrow the money from your friend.

I see that you turned down the offer from your friend. Probably the right thing to do b/c in the long run, you can run with a clear conscience.

Good luck with your hunt of a new(er) car. If I can think of anything else which may be useful to you, I will certainly pass it along.

BTW, Ayla raised a good point about the repair costs. You definitely want to consider the cost of ownership rather than the inital cost of the vehicle. Not to mention the insurance as well.

I know with my plight, I AM a big guy (6'5"), so I prety much HAVE to look at big cars to satisfy my comfort zone

 

[Ayla ny]

(snipped stuff for Faramir) Oh and Ayla sweetie... Audi, I can understand but OPAL!?!? If you're talking about the European brand... you do know they compete with Ford right? And are known in this country as Vauxhalls and (rightly) shunned by other drivers as they lurch past 😉

but they're SO cute!

 

[BOFH666]

Ah, well you never mentioned it was an OLD Opal (Opal is the brand btw, they currently make euroboxes, family hatchbacks etc), that's a little different... Though if you thought the Audi was expensive to run.... 😉 Actually I'm really glad you put this up, I was just about to go organise a pod hunt and New York's a bloody big place to search 😉

 

[Ayla ny]

ok, you Brit you! what is a Vauxhall and what on earth is a Pod Hunt? and if you’re searching for one in NY, you had better say hi! 😛

 

[BOFH666]

Pod Hunt - Reference to the film "Invasion of the body snatchers" where exact replicas of people were grown in pods then used to replace the original person. Personality was one thing that couldn't be replicated resulting in weird behaviour. As you seemed to be lusting after a rather average family hatchback I assumed they'd gotten you 😉

Vaukhall - the British version of Opal, as in, the cars are the same other than the badge on the nose. Manufactuers cars that were, up until a couple of years ago, bloody awful and now makes cars that are average to decent. There are a couple of models that break this trend, most obvious in the VX220 Turbo which is basically a rebadged and restyled Lotus Elise. Other than that, boring tosh that gets beaten into a whimpering mess by the latest entries from Japan. 😀 IMHO of course 😉

Anything else my dear?

 

[Ayla ny]

ahhh ok! the pod people never got me... but I did spend a few years as a Stepford Wife. does that count?

"anything else?" well, if you could lower gas prices and/or make it to the next NEST, that would be nice. 🙂