Improving the quality of WMV clips: better encoding software or different settings?

[The Last Laugh]

Hello everyone,

My format of choice for my clips, both the previews and the commercial ones on Clips4Sale.com, is WMV. I apologize if it's not everyone's favorite format (particularly thinking of Mac users, here), but it works well for me, and I have no plans to switch to another one.

The few comments I've read about the picture quality of my commercial clips have been positive so far. I personally feel it's decent enough, despite the 480x360 screen size (compared to the 640x480 one that several vendors use). But I can't help but wish I could improve it.

More specifically, I'd like to improve the WMV encoding. Either get better quality for the same file size (and bitrate), or decrease the file size without losing quality. I'm very impressed with the level of quality of the clips of some other producers, tickling or other. Some of those clips look significantly better than mine, even though they have a larger screen size, a smaller file size, or both. I've no idea how they do it. I assume they either use better software than I do or know better how to use it.

For my commercial clips I simply use Windows Media Encoder 9 to convert 720x480 AVI to 480x360 WMV. Typically, I set the video bit rate to about 1000 bps (a little less for my older clips), using the Windows Media Video 9 codec. The mode is bit rate VBR. Frame rate is 29.97 fps. I also select the Deinterlace option. Audio is CD quality (64 kbps, 44 kHz, stereo VBR), using the Windows Media Audio 9.2 codec. The resulting clips are somewhere between 7.5 and 8 MB/minute.

I've tried boosting the bit rate so as to get the equivalent of about 10 MB/minute, hoping the picture would look noticeably better, with less obvious compression artefacts. But it doesn't make much of a difference, and I can't ignore the fact that other producers get better results for less than that.

Frankly, when it comes to WMV encoding, I'm only aware of Windows Media Encoder. Is there better software out there? Or maybe there's a better version of WME? I don't mind if I need to pay for such software if it means improving my work. Maybe I should use a different video codec in WME, or maybe change some of the settings?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[cosquillero1]

Hello everyone,

My format of choice for my clips, both the previews and the commercial ones on Clips4Sale.com, is WMV. I apologize if it's not everyone's favorite format (particularly thinking of Mac users, here), but it works well for me, and I have no plans to switch to another one.

The few comments I've read about the picture quality of my commercial clips have been positive so far. I personally feel it's decent enough, despite the 480x360 screen size (compared to the 640x480 one that several vendors use). But I can't help but wish I could improve it.

More specifically, I'd like to improve the WMV encoding. Either get better quality for the same file size (and bitrate), or decrease the file size without losing quality. I'm very impressed with the level of quality of the clips of some other producers, tickling or other. Some of those clips look significantly better than mine, even though they have a larger screen size, a smaller file size, or both. I've no idea how they do it. I assume they either use better software than I do or know better how to use it.

For my commercial clips I simply use Windows Media Encoder 9 to convert 720x480 AVI to 480x360 WMV. Typically, I set the video bit rate to about 1000 bps (a little less for my older clips), using the Windows Media Video 9 codec. The mode is bit rate VBR. Frame rate is 29.97 fps. I also select the Deinterlace option. Audio is CD quality (64 kbps, 44 kHz, stereo VBR), using the Windows Media Audio 9.2 codec. The resulting clips are somewhere between 7.5 and 8 MB/minute.

I've tried boosting the bit rate so as to get the equivalent of about 10 MB/minute, hoping the picture would look noticeably better, with less obvious compression artefacts. But it doesn't make much of a difference, and I can't ignore the fact that other producers get better results for less than that.

Frankly, when it comes to WMV encoding, I'm only aware of Windows Media Encoder. Is there better software out there? Or maybe there's a better version of WME? I don't mind if I need to pay for such software if it means improving my work. Maybe I should use a different video codec in WME, or maybe change some of the settings?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I don't know a lot about video compression, but I've seen than Real Media format get better quality, keeping the screen size and decreasing the file size. You can Make your movie, get the AVI (from your video Camera) and finally convert it from AVI into Real Media using CinemaForge Software (Free to try, but it needs license). I've used that software and i get almost DVD quality.

 

[The Last Laugh]

I have indeed noticed that RM does a very good job with size and quality. I'll consider it, and thank you for the software recommendation (I'm taking note of CinemaForce). It would mean, however, doing a lot of work to convert my back catalog and getting used to a new format. I'm also rather fond of WMV, though I'm not sure why. Maybe it's just that I'm used to it.

It still seems that one can get better results with WMV than what I'm getting right now. A preview clip offered by another producer (not a tickling one, but that's irrelevant) that I've seen was WMV, 640x480, had gorgeous picture quality, and yet it was only about 6 MB per minute. Very impressive. I wish I knew how it was created.

 

[the_jimmy_james]

RealMedia has one huge problem... portability. Windows Media is available and fully supported on the two major consumer platforms (Windows and Mac OS X). However, I don't think that RealMedia is available on anything but Windows.

And maybe a crappy, halfass Linux port.

You might play around with other codecs, though. Ogg Vorbis is a feature-rich codec that's fully open source and free, available to users on any platform. There's also DivX, but that costs money. XVid is I believe a free codec. DivX and XVid can also be used as encoders for WMV format and QuickTime.

It's been several years since I was "current" on video work. It's what I went to college for, but since then, I've not kept up to date the codecs.

But, still, I hope that helps 🙂

 

[cosquillero1]

I have indeed noticed that RM does a very good job with size and quality. I'll consider it, and thank you for the software recommendation (I'm taking note of CinemaForce). It would mean, however, doing a lot of work to convert my back catalog and getting used to a new format. I'm also rather fond of WMV, though I'm not sure why. Maybe it's just that I'm used to it.

It still seems that one can get better results with WMV than what I'm getting right now. A preview clip offered by another producer (not a tickling one, but that's irrelevant) that I've seen was WMV, 640x480, had gorgeous picture quality, and yet it was only about 6 MB per minute. Very impressive. I wish I knew how it was created.

You're welcome. Anyway if you wish to keep WMV as your usual format, CinemaForge can maybe improve your video quality in that format (but i don't know if the file size is same or bigger, you must to try it).

RealMedia has one huge problem... portability. Windows Media is available and fully supported on the two major consumer platforms (Windows and Mac OS X). However, I don't think that RealMedia is available on anything but Windows.

And maybe a crappy, halfass Linux port.

You might play around with other codecs, though. Ogg Vorbis is a feature-rich codec that's fully open source and free, available to users on any platform. There's also DivX, but that costs money. XVid is I believe a free codec. DivX and XVid can also be used as encoders for WMV format and QuickTime.

It's been several years since I was "current" on video work. It's what I went to college for, but since then, I've not kept up to date the codecs.

But, still, I hope that helps 🙂

Indeed RealMedia has players for Mac OS X and Linux users, check it out by yourself, Mac OS X & Linux.

 

[The Last Laugh]

Thank you, guys, for your advice. I will investigate some of the suggestions you posted, like CinemaForge and different codecs.

I don't know about RM, but if it's anything like WMV, well, let's just say that, even though Mac users are technically capable of playing WMV files, it's not exactly their favorite format by any means. So maybe they feel the same about RM, I'm not sure.

 

[cosquillero1]

Thank you, guys, for your advice. I will investigate some of the suggestions you posted, like CinemaForge and different codecs.

I don't know about RM, but if it's anything like WMV, well, let's just say that, even though Mac users are technically capable of playing WMV files, it's not exactly their favorite format by any means. So maybe they feel the same about RM, I'm not sure.

François, Mac users prefer QuickTime among all formats available, but yet i know several Mac users than play RealMedia videos/clips. Anyway, if you go to recode every file, also you can to change the format of every file (anyway, you'll spend the same time amount). The advantage than i can see is the file size reduction without to lose any quality. CinemaForge changes the format of any file very quickly, this tool supports several well known video formats, such as : WMV, MPEG, RealMedia, FLV, AVI, QuickTime and others more.

 

[The Last Laugh]

I just tried CinemaForge, but didn't have much success with it. I tried both versions, the standard one and the Lite one.

When installing the standard one, I got an error message. I did seem to have installed, though, so I tried using it anyway. I got another error message and was stuck. I tried reinstalling and downloading a new copy, but I got the error message every time. So I was unable to try this version. The way I understanding it, though, it's not that much different from the Lite version. It's mostly a matter of interface.

As for the Lite version, well, it's certainly easy to use, but it's lacking many features I'm used to in Windows Media Encoder. I can't select 2-pass mode, I can't choose between CBR and VBR, there's a limited number of frame sizes and bitrates (though to be fair I don't really need more than it offers), I can't crop the original clip, I can't deinterlace, I can't include a copyright message, etc. I tried encoding a clip anyway. Well, the quality looked decent enough, but it was kind of hard to tell, because the colors were so messed up that the models were actually blue! I tried it a couple of times and got the same result. No idea how the software managed that.

So my experience with CinemaForge so far is pretty disappointing. Certainly not something I can use as it is. After hearing about it from a few people, I was looking forward to taking it for a spin. Maybe my case is an exception, but it doesn't change the fact that I can't use it. It's really too bad.

 

[cosquillero1]

I just tried CinemaForge, but didn't have much success with it. I tried both versions, the standard one and the Lite one.

When installing the standard one, I got an error message. I did seem to have installed, though, so I tried using it anyway. I got another error message and was stuck. I tried reinstalling and downloading a new copy, but I got the error message every time. So I was unable to try this version. The way I understanding it, though, it's not that much different from the Lite version. It's mostly a matter of interface...

Hmmmm, What OS you have (Windows, Mac OS X, Linux) ?. If you have Windows what version you have : XP, Vista, 98, 95 ?. I have Win XP SP2 (updated) and CinemaForge runs ok.

 

[The Last Laugh]

Hmmmm, What OS you have (Windows, Mac OS X, Linux) ?. If you have Windows what version you have : XP, Vista, 98, 95 ?. I have Win XP SP2 (updated) and CinemaForge runs ok.

I use the exact same thing: Win XP with SP2. I've no idea why it's not working for me. It isn't due to the download process or a corrupted copy of the file, because I tried two copies of the standard version from different sources, and I got the same results. Weird.

 

[cosquillero1]

I use the exact same thing: Win XP with SP2. I've no idea why it's not working for me. It isn't due to the download process or a corrupted copy of the file, because I tried two copies of the standard version from different sources, and I got the same results. Weird.

Ok, i'll send a copy of the software than i downloaded some time ago, remember this one is shareware, you try it and if you like it, then you buy it. Of course, i'll send it for you if you don't care about.

 

[The Last Laugh]

Ok, i'll send a copy of the software than i downloaded some time ago, remember this one is shareware, you try it and if you like it, then you buy it. Of course, i'll send it for you if you don't care about.

I'd be grateful if you could send it to me. I'm hoping I will work on my computer. If it does a better job than WME, I'll definitely buy it. But to tell the truth, I was under the impression it was entirely free. When I looked for a copy to download I was trying to find a commercial version, figuring it would be better than a shareware version, or at least more complete. But all I could find were free ones, including on the CinemaForge website. That surprised me. I mean, the "light" version that I was able to install didn't seem to include a feature for upgrading to a commercial version. Maybe it's only available in the standard (more complete) version?

 

[Master Chief]

Most likely so. Most companies have a habit of doing that.

 

[The Last Laugh]

Most likely so. Most companies have a habit of doing that.

Well, normally I would expect the company to do that, and for all I know it's entirely possible that they actually do. But I found it odd not to see any mention of it on the website.

 

[cosquillero1]

I'd be grateful if you could send it to me. I'm hoping I will work on my computer. If it does a better job than WME, I'll definitely buy it. But to tell the truth, I was under the impression it was entirely free. When I looked for a copy to download I was trying to find a commercial version, figuring it would be better than a shareware version, or at least more complete. But all I could find were free ones, including on the CinemaForge website. That surprised me. I mean, the "light" version that I was able to install didn't seem to include a feature for upgrading to a commercial version. Maybe it's only available in the standard (more complete) version?

I just did send you the CinemaForge program (by means of www.rapidshare.com), please download it before a month, remember rapidshare removes files if they aren't downloaded in a month. Check your PM's inbox. Good Luck.

 

[The Last Laugh]

I just did send you the CinemaForge program (by means of www.rapidshare.com), please download it before a month, remember rapidshare removes files if they aren't downloaded in a month. Check your PM's inbox. Good Luck.

Thanks! I downloaded it, and it installed just fine. I wonder why the other copies I downloaded didn't work.

I haven't fully experimented with it yet, but there are some problems I need to solve. For instance, while this version offers more options than the Light version I tried some time ago, adjusting the bitrate doesn't seem to affect the file size. Apparently, it's the Quality option that determines the file size. That and frame size. Increasing the Quality and the Frame Size doesn't seem to affect the bitrate, even though the clips obviously become bigger. It doesn't make any sens to me.

I could try adjusting the Quality setting only, but it's not a very flexible system. I've tried converting a couple of AVI clips to WMV, changing some of the settings. Using "Good" quality makes the files too small, so they don't look very good. But using "High" quality makes the clips way too big. Sure, they look pretty good, better than I'm used to, but it's no big surprise since the resulting files are 3 to 4 times larger than the "Good" ones, and at least twice as big as the clips I've been making. I'm not sure how to get an in-between result, something I could actually compare to what WME can do.

Also, the motion in the clips seems a little weird. It's like the clips appear to play faster than normal, even though it's not really the case, and somehow this apparent speed isn't entirely constant. It doesn't seem to happen with all types of files and settings, but I do get it when creating clips the way I need them to be. I don't know what to think about this.

Finally, assuming I manage to find solutions to these problems and find out that the software is more efficient than WME, I'd really like to purchase and register it. But I've tried following the link where I'm supposed to purchase the software, and I end up on a page that has nothing to do with it. Oh, it has something to do with CinemaForge, as mentioned in the copyright, but it's something called Nume, a community for people who want to share playlists created using some program. I simply can't find where I'm supposed to go to buy CinemaForge.

I'll have to experiment some more before I can decide whether I should use it instead of WME. But even if it turns out not to be superior, it might still come in handy for other file conversion jobs. Thank you for sending the file!

 

[cosquillero1]

You're welcome, Françoise. I'm happy than finally you got it working. Well, about of conversion, file size, etc., i only have tested that with realmedia format, i mean, i've converted files from a given format into realmedia, getting a high quality clip (almost DVD quality) with an acceptable size, i don't know what would happen if i try with .wmv format, so that i can't aid you in this matter. Maybe you'd try with realmedia (if you're comfortable with it). Nothing for to give thanks, it was a pleasure to me. I hope than you get the right fix for you asap.