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Interesting thoughts on HHH....

Lazarus

TMF Expert
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
555
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Triple H. The Game. Politics. Back stage politics. After those four fragment sentences, I am sure you have begun to think about your stance on the current RAW headliner and his position of power. For some bizarre reason, the internet loves to hate “the Game.” Why is that? Well, I would like to throw out some ideas and thoughts on the subject.

Triple H has a lot of pull backstage in the WWE. Or, at least, that is what I have been led to believe. Sure, he is married to the boss’ daughter. Nice move on his part, I must say. Sure, he seems to be unbeatable. Sure, he has pinned every major superstar on the RAW roster. But, is that so wrong? Not at all.

Okay, settle down. There are many internet wrestling fans that absolutely hate Triple H and do not feel that he deserves his current place in the WWE. Why doesn’t he? I will be honest with you. I have never attended a backstage meeting at RAW. I have never seen Triple H use his leverage with the boss to hold onto the world strap. I would guess that he might do these things. But, if he is, Triple H is merely playing the “game.”

Life is competitive. Face it, if you do not compete, if you do not show a distinct edge, others who do will pass you by, whether it be in professional wrestling or in any other business. Is Triple H playing by the rules by marrying into the boss’s family? Is he playing by the rules by positioning himself as close to the boss as possible? Sure, if he hadn’t, do you honestly think another wrestler would not have tried to? Who knows, maybe he genuinely loves Stephanie. He probably spent a lot of time with her on the road, traveling from show to show, working matches and storylines together. But, his true feelings about his wife is none of our business, so I will drop this line of inquiring out of respect for his private life.

For over a decade, Triple H has played the game, from his lowly beginnings to his spot on the top rung of the ladder. Triple H was obedient and suffered through his clique error (hugging his departing friends, breaking character, in front of a crowd), he jobbed to the likes of “Everyone’s Favorite Trash Man,” Duke “the Dumpster” Drose and “H.O.G.” Henry O. Godwin, not to mention "Jobbing" to Ultimate Warrior in less than 2 minutes at WrestleMania XII.

Any man not absolutely determined to make something out of his in-ring career would not have put up with such humiliation. But Triple H did. He was handed 20 lbs of “suck” and a 10 lb bag and he carried it surprisingly well. He bowed, curtsied, and turned his caricature Greenwich nose in blue-blooded contempt for the horrendously insipid baby faces. He battled through all of this, wrestling good matches with less talented opponents. He let himself be booked to lose against Marc Mero repeatedly, over and over, each week on RAW. He stood back and played the silent lackey to D-Generation X’s star, Shawn Michaels.

Then it happened, HBK was injured and Vince was in a tough spot. He gave the ball to Triple H. What did Triple H do? He sunk his nails into that ball and ran like hell. He made D-Generation X (in my opinion) more entertaining and “in-your-face” than ever. He became the guy who you loved to hate, and then he became the guy you loved to root for as he humiliated everyone with his clever, though juvenile, humor.

D-Generation X eventually deteriorated and the Game emerged. We finally see a serious, intense Triple H that wrestled many memorable matches with Mick Foley, Steve Austin, The Rock, Chris Jericho, and many other top wrestlers.

Then, Triple H suffered a serious setback. But, like we have seen from the man before, he was still determined to be the best that he could in the ring. He showed his intense passion for the business, or his love of his spot in the business, enough to continue the match where he tore his quad muscle (compare his actions during the match where Triple H tore his quad to when Kevin Nash did), rehabilitate, heal, and train for a comeback.( But pro wrestling is fake, right Mr. "NFL"?)

Perhaps he trained a bit too much and came back “freaky huge” (I would agree that his in-ring work suffered after his comeback due to his size and lack of mobility). There were some matches that were not up to his earlier standards. But, his ring rust was brushed off, he lost some of that upper body bulk, and he, once again, began wrestling stellar matches.

The passion was still in the Game, though his on-screen character again changed. He was no longer the Greenwich snob; he was no longer the D-Generation X lackey; he was no longer the intense monster; he became the man obsessed with gold. He became the wild-eyed, frenzied man desperately holding on to the one thing that mattered most to him, in any way he could. And no other wrestler has played that part as well as Triple H.

Is Triple H using his backstage power to keep hold of the world title? I would venture to guess maybe. Did Hulk Hogan use his backstage “stroke” to punish Macho Man and Ricky the Dragon Steamboat after their incredible Wrestle Mania 3 match? Absolutely. Was Hogan wrong to do so? I don’t know. The men that he tried to hold down were main eventing soon after. Is it wrong for Triple H to hold down Booker T and Rob Van Dam? I don’t know. Maybe those aren’t his doings. But, what is wrong with booking a strong, unstoppable champion that is positioned to be hated by fans? When Triple H is finally dethroned, the fan reaction will be all the more intense, as long as the WWE doesn't blow the angle, like they did with the Honky Tonk Man holding the I-C title for over 18 months...

I have always enjoyed Triple H’s matches. A year or so ago, I began to read the internet smear columns about the Game and I began to believe them. But, after giving it some serious thought, I feel that Triple H is doing nothing more than playing the game, and playing it well.

So, does Triple H make the grade? What grade does The Game deserve for his tenure thus far in the WWE? For his tenacity and his immense passion for the business, for his refusal to give up and his ability to play politics to his advantage, I give Triple H a well deserved A.

You’ve come to your senses and wholeheartedly agree, right? No? Disagree?

This has been the Lazmeister.....

Until I post again....

Adios.
 
While I think Triple H's current stance in the WWE is at the point of overbearing, he's still one of the all-time best wrestlers in the business. As far as his atheletism and entertainment skills.
For one thing, Vince needs to get that championship belt off him and leave it off him. He's proven himself time and again, let someone else get a push. I've heard stories about his role backstage, he pretty much has all control over "the boys". I don't know if this is because he's Vince's son-in-law or if this has been going on for a few years. Bottomline: Triple H needs to step back a bit before he gets stale. (which is already starting)
And Evolution? Been there, done that with The Four Horsemen, D Generation X, and the NWO.
I remember back in 1997 or 98 MTV had a special on wrestling for their "true life" series. They featured a young upcoming kid(who eventually never made it), Triple H and Chyna, and a wrestler in the twilight of his career. I thought this was the highpoint of Triple H's career. He talked about how he ate, drank, slept, and totally lived wrestling 24 hours a day and the first thing he would do when he arrived in a town, was find a gym.
I'd like to see him get back to that kind of work ethic, it seems like it's missing today.

I give a Triple H an "A" as well, Laz. He put in a damn good decade up til now.

Drew
 
This has been pretty much beaten to death on the wrestling board I usually post at, but I figure I might as well take a stab at it here.

I don't give a flying French coitus about what Trips does in backstage politics or what's behind his relationship with Stephanie. As a wrestling fan, I want good matches and good angles. And Triple H has not been providing those.

I admit he's improved since his dismal 2002, and it's kind of unfair to judge him on his matches in 2003, because for about half the year he was being forced to try and carry useless loads like Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash. But in no way is he up to the standard he set for himself in 2000-2001. He seems only capable of having really good matches with HBK these days, and even then they're hit and miss (they stunk up the joint at Armageddon 2002, and last month's Royal Rumble match was a bad joke). Brings to mind the bad old days of the Clique, when they'd only put on an effort when they were up against each other.

And I'm sorry, but I've been hearing the "yeah, but it'll be a big event when someone finally beats him" argument for two years now, and it's getting stale. How long are they going to wait to pull the trigger? I'd -like- to think that they might do it with Benoit, but we've been in this situation before: Triple H on one hand, someone who just needs that little extra push to be a credible main eventer on the other (see: RVD, Kane, Booker T). And in every case the challenger has gotten unceremoniously bounced down to the midcard again. The only people Trips has jobbed the title to are HBK and Goldberg, both of whom were already over on their own -- and both of whom got extremely short title reigns before they gave it back, anyway.

The comparison to Honky Tonk Man doesn't work because Honky never beat his challengers clean -- he'd get his butt kicked every time out and at the last minute he'd cheat or draw an intentional DQ or otherwise weasel out to save his title. Trips, on the other hand, gets to look like the toughest man on Raw, rarely has to resort to cheating, rarely even looks scared of his challengers.

This has led to the ridiculous situation on Raw where the only big-time faces are guys like Austin, Foley, and HBK, who are well past their prime or, in Austin's case, not able to wrestle any longer. How are they going to build up new faces for the future if nobody is allowed to look like they're in Triple H's class?
 
To put it simnply. The guy is married to stephanie mcmahon. Therefore, he gets to write his own storylines/'title defenses. Im sick of seeing hhh as a champion. im sick of de-evolution. I hope the rock and mic foley beat the living s*** out of randy ortan and batista(rumoured match at WRestlemania).

HHH=sorry im not dropping the belt to anyone.
 
HHH...

Is going to be going face in the near future....

That may set up for many new heel challenges, but from the looks of it, the Heart Break Kracker may be turning heel against Benoit....

Meems and I are watching some old DX tapes, and laughing our asses off at the old antics, and how great Raw was back then....

How times have changed, eh?

Red Rover, Red Rover, let Lazzy come over...
 
i heard wwe is coming up with some new kind of ecw show.
 
I like Triple H the way he was and the way he is. He just has a commanding presense, much like the Undertaker (by the way when is HE coming back exactly? Maybe tommorrow or is that too soon?).

Triple H just has this out-of-ring and in-ring presense. He represents so many things yet acts so cool, calm and collected alot of the time. I can show favour with him because I have things in common with him, mainly the competitive spirit. While this may be going too far, I think its qualities like this that attach fans to a superstar.

I will say this though- Triple H has had the belt long enough. It wasn't enough that he lost it to Goldberg for a short ammount of time. He needs some time away from his "precious" so he can focus more on his mat skills. Don't get me wrong, hes a great technical wrestler, but hes no Chris Benoit, for example. Triple H needs that same wrestling intensity that Benoit has. If Triple H can train more and focus then he only stands to reach higher plateus in the future of his career. Perhaps more people will love him for that alone. I like him because of his persona and character. I like the way he handles the mic., and as I said, he just has this presense to him that alot of superstars don't.

While I think Triple H, heel or not, deserves to be the champion, I think he needs a break from champion status to work on his in-ring skills. Don't get me wrong, he is "The Game" even in-ring, but I see him slowly lossing the mastery of his art, and I don't want him to suffer because of it.
 
The man can't lose! No matter where in the ring he is, he can get the ref to break any hold because his nose is never more than three inches from the ring ropes!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAA!

BTW, "Flying French coitus" ?????

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forgive me if I don't seem to be taking this seriously, I enjoy a little vouluntary suspension of disbelief as much as the next girl!
 
HHH is the man! i know there is a lot of people who feel he should lose the strap, let someone else wear it, and so on and so forth. but keep in mind, who ELSE would do a great job as heel champ than HHH? the man has carried the ball and has done great. there has been no one else as a heel that has stepped it up to the level he created. at his peak, HHH was the BEST ever heel champion ever. usually, the title was put around a babyface, and the company flowed thru that. but when HHH had it, it was different. his in ring skills were tremendous and he put on a lot of great matches. you couldnt help but hate him, but deep down, you had to respect the guy.

like Lazarus said, HHH paid his dues, suffered thru the B.S. and rose to the top. people say he has backstage "stroke". well dammit, if you had it, wouldnt you use it? HHH had a focus, a goal. to be the best there is. he busted his ass, he wrestled thru career threatening injuries, and put on a performance. his entrance music "The Game" has got to be one of the best ever. before i play football, i play that song as it gets me hyped up. his whole ring entrance is cool, all the way to spitting the water in the air, to the camera shot of his face afterwards. he went and married McMahon's daughter. i would have done the same thing. he is trying to reach the top and if you were in his position and had his dedication, you would do the same thing.

true, he has had the belt a LONG time. but really, is there anyone else out there right now that can carry the show? the Rock is in Hollywood most of the time, Austin cant wrestle, HBK can still put on a good performance, but he cant carry the show like he did before, and Goldberg really isnt that good. until a guy shows he can carry the load, expect to see HHH around for a while.

and yes, Randy Orton and Batista suck......
 
Best heel champion ever? Say, you know that old white-haired guy who hangs around with Triple H? What's his name again, Ric something?

I see a heel champion's job as being able to make me want to see him get beaten down and lose his belt, so I can cheer for the face to do so. But after seeing Triple H squash challenger after challenger, I can no longer summon that interest. Why should I bother investing any emotion in Trips' latest jobber?

And it's easy to say that no one else can handle the load if no one else has been given the chance to handle the load. Triple H only got -his- chance because Foley, Austin, and the Undertaker were all out, and even then Vince & Co. had to push him like hell for months before people started to take him seriously as anything but a midcarder. It wasn't until the "McMahon-Helmsley Era" started in 2000 and Foley ended his career putting Trips over that he really arrived.

I'm not putting down Triple H's effort and determination -- some of his matches from his peak are among my favorites. But he didn't get there by himself.
 
Its about time he gves it up and let someone else hold the title. For too long now, whenever HHH has a title match, people think the title is going nowhere, making it a dull, predictable match, whereas if someoneelse has the title, it can create the air of uncertainty fans have been waiting for. Look, Royal Rumble was a joke, and they needed that momentum to get WMXX, hot. The pressure is on Vince to produce because let's face it: the WWE has been boring, stale, and tired of the same peole on top for the longest. There are a lot of people who could carry the ball, but can't because of politics and the likes of HHH. They will never be hot again until they use all the talent they have. Til then, the product suffers
 
I am really torn on this topic...

Part of me really does love HHH. He is brilliantly funny both in antics and on the mic, and he is a damn good technical wrestler. He has paid his dues, he is one of the best at protecting his opponent from injury in the ring, and he is physically impressive. He has all the qualities needed to be a great champion.

The other part of me is saying "he's had the title long enough". I don't want to see HHH turn into another Hulk Hogan. One who rules the ring AND backstage policies, and who cares more about keeping himself on the top, than improving the state of wrestling by giving that much needed bump to up and coming younger talent. Hogan turned into an egotistical monster, and if HHH is not delivered a dose of equality soon, I'm afraid he may follow in those footsteps.

But then the problem becomes, who DO you put the belt on? Thanks to McMahon dropping the ball once ECW and WCW were put out of business, we're at a loss for other potential champions. If McMahon had not let his ego get in the way, we could have seen many of those dream matches we all fantasized about when the federations were still running seperately. Instead, McMahon placed his huge foot down on the heads of most of the wrestlers he brought in from the other federations, and they have quickly disappeared into mid-card status. And that's if they are lucky. Kanyon (who is an incredible technical wrestler, and had just begun working his way up in WCW when they went down) can't even seem to keep a weekly spot on velocity anymore.

McMahon has single handedly ruined the credibility of MANY potential title holders, and now we're left with virtually no one who can pick up the reins and make a believable champion that the fans can stand behind. Michaels? Perhaps, but who would he have to feud with aside from HHH? While HHH vs Michaels is almost always a good match, it's already been done far too much, and I think we're all getting a little bored with it. Kane? Maybe, but with the latest hints of Old School Taker making his return, I am pretty sure they're going to be setting up for another long run of Taker vs Kane feuds. The Rock is hardly ever around anymore, and Austin and Foley can no longer wrestle full time. Flair is too old, and Orton is too inexperienced yet. Batista draws no heat, and if it wasn't for Evolution, he would be just another face in the crowd.

There are many talented mid-carders who have potential - Benoit, Jericho, RVD, Steiner, Booker T, Edge (when he returns from injury) - but we all know that aside from the occassional title shot, McMahon is not going to place the belt around any of their waists. Which is a shame, because with the proper push, several of them could be entertaining and worthwhile champions.

So I guess I'm left asking the big question that's probably even flogging the WWE executives: If not HHH, who else?

Mimi
 
It's ALL An Act...

A soap opera.
The steroid freak ain't the man until he beats me, and the last I knew Paul turned down the offer to have his ass whipped, anyplace, anytime, by a real athlete.

Tron
 
HHH is a great athlete and a great wrestler. true he has had the belt for a while, but again, i see no one else stepping it up. as for Ric Flair being a great heel champion, what i should have said was that HHH is the greatest WWE heel champion of all time. Ric Flair formed his reputation in NWA/WCW.

when HHH was gone recovering from his quad injury, there was a chance for someone to step it up. i can only remember Kurt Angle stepping it up, but he is too funny. he doesnt have the "dark heel" personality. HHH was gone for 8 months. that was the time for someone to step it up, and no one did. Austin was heel at the time, but c'mon, th efans love Austin too much. so this "giving someone else a chance" was given, and no one stepped it up. granted HHH is probably hogging the spotlight, but Vince is no dummy. he has seen them come and go. remember, there are TWO shows. there is no HHH on Smackdown, so why hasnt there been someone over there who stepped it up to the level of the Game? HHH is only on Raw. there is opportunities for others to step it up. have they? not yet.

as for Neutron. do you honestly believe HHH will take you on in a fight. do you even realize how many people like you are out there challenging them to a fight? since you think wrestling is soooo fake and they are not real athletes like yourself (chuckle chuckle), why dont YOU go show them that it is easy. show up at a pro wrestling training camp and show them how it is done. show them that they are a bunch of pansies and any true athlete like yourself (snicker snicker), can do what they do with your eyes closed. make sure you use all of your bravado while you're there. you wouldnt even last a week......
 
Oh, I think Angle's more than cemented his place at the top of the card. And consider Brock Lesnar. Came out of nowhere, captured the championship in less than a year, and he's holding the belt now -- and I don't see anyone questioning his right to wear it.

But of course, for all his strength and skills, Lesnar didn't get where he was on his own either. I don't want to say Vince could make -anyone- a legitimate main eventer if he chose to do so, because that's simply not true (Lex Luger, anyone?). But people don't just make themselves into championship material in the WWE. They have to be pushed -- and that means giving them decisive wins over already-established stars. For Triple H, it was Foley and the Rock. For Lesnar, it was Hogan and the Undertaker.

That's why I think it's silly to say no one is "stepping up." You can be a great wrestler, great on the mic, popular with the crowds (or hated by them, as necessary) -- and none of that will prove that you can hang with the big names unless the bookers let you show you're in their class.

I'm kinda hoping that now Trips is a McMahon by proxy, he'll eventually move away from thinking only about what's good for him (keeping the belt forever, being the big star) toward what's good for the company as a whole (having more strong, popular characters for the fans to identify with). But I'm not holding my breath.
 
Re: It's ALL An Act...

Neutron said:
A soap opera.
The steroid freak ain't the man until he beats me, and the last I knew Paul turned down the offer to have his ass whipped, anyplace, anytime, by a real athlete.

Tron

Mike I don't wish to suggest that you're getting predictable, but there are as yet undiscovered tribes in the islands of Oceania, who knew you were going to say that.



I lost interest in the WWF (No, I am STILL not gonna call it the WWE!) when the titles reigns dropped to around a fortnight and there became more belts than there were guys to hold them. I think the women's division has been degraded into little more than a tits and arse titilation fest too. They used to have some decent athletes down there. Some of the ladies have real talent, but even they are pretty much reduced to the level of a Godfather ho.

Btw Laz, I read in Mick Foley's second book that Shawn Michaels had come clean about Bret Hart's screw job. What exactly did "coming clean" entail, do you know? I've not heard the full story.
 
That Bret Hart was leaving the WWE, and he had refused to give up the belt, so they had a planned screw job to lift it from him😀
 
Considering how wrestling burns up its stars, I give HHH credit for trying to do anything to extend his career at the top. And no matter what I read about what he's doing behind the scenes to screw other wrestlers, when he's on camera I dislike him immediately because of his smugness, gum-chewing, and tiresome speeches....and my rule of thumb is, if ya hate him, he's doing his job.

The Sean Man

:happyfloa
 
I don't feel any sympathy for bret hart. He didn't want to lose the title. he seemed to forget that he DID NOT run the show. So, he had to learn the hard way. I honestly hope that Randy Orton gets a shot in the spotlight. The guy is incredibly talented and is in *perfect* shape.
 
Krokus said:
I don't feel any sympathy for bret hart. He didn't want to lose the title. he seemed to forget that he DID NOT run the show. So, he had to learn the hard way.

That's not true. The only thing he refused to voluntarily do, was lose the title to Shawn Michaels. (On account of the fact that he wouldn't piss on him if he saw him on fire.) Bret actually offered two or three different scenarios for giving up the title before his scheduled departure to WCW.

Personally I think Bret was wrong to leave, for several reasons. WCW was a place of zero booking and artistic talent for years, mainly thanks to truly crap bookers like Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair. Yes, they did offer him more money than Vince could at the time, but it didn't take a genius to realise that the WWF's longevity was healthier. Ted Turner didn't have a f***ing clue how to run a wrestling business and it's a miracle that WCW lasted as long as it did. (Even more a miracle how talentless wankers like Eric Bischoff were subsequently given jobs by Vince.) Even though it would have meant a reduction in pay, Bret would still have earned millions over the five or so years that his contract was due to last, and the reduced sum wouldn't have lasted that long anyway. The WWF's better writing and booking rose above all the competition and Bret could have ridden his last years out much more comfortably. Sadly it appears that he went for the quick fix. Within 12 months he had been swallowed by WCW's everlasting mediocrity, and any charisma, talent or ring-presence he'd garnered over the previous 15 years was worthless.
 
While I'll admit I don't watch pro wrestling nearly as much as in my younger days, when I do....Triple HHH is one of my favorites.

And how much did I watch wrestling in my younger days? On Saturday evenings here in Atlanta during the 1980's, there was a seven (7) hour long wrestling show marathon on TV 69. It featured shows from around the country (shown back-to-back)....AWA, NWA, WWF, etc. It was hosted by a guy named Joe Pedicino and his co-host (and eventually wife) Boni Blackstone; and was totally awesome. I never missed it...it was as much a tradition in my home as Monday Night Football 🙂
 
While I'm not HHH's biggest fan, I do like the fact that the Raw version of the WWE/F belt has been strenghtend by his long title reign. I'm pretty old school when it comes to pro rasslin. I remember Verne Gange holding the AWA championship for what seemed like forever. Yes, he'd loose it for short periods, only to regain it. After Gange, Nick Bockwinkle did the same thing. In the NWA, Harley Race was a long term champion, then of course Flair, who was off and on (mostly on) the champion for years. In the WWF Bob Backland held the belt for a long period of time, then Hogan did the same. Changing champions every PPV devalues the belt in my opinion. So, HHH's longish title reign to me is a good thing.
 
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