It's weird; Is M/F creativity dying?

[Spenser]

Being able to capture very special moments, very special interactions, on short or long video clips, or in stories, or in graphic or hand drawn art is almost operatic.

The quality of special and intense moments of intimate human interaction, be it vanilla, tickling, sm, gay, hetero, whatever are rare. Some raise to become elements that can almost be called 'artistic', and have done so.

Apart from our real life human interactions, some of us carry about collections of closely and dearly held art "porn". I know I do. And one of my best buddies lost his career and much of his will to live, in pursuing his own view and artistic portrayal of the 'fetish'.

I don't think it's merely the participants in any individual shoot or the players at any random party. When the exact moment of play and interaction all truly connects, that's when it cooks.

 

[Bohemianne]

Never say die...

M/F is alive and kicking. Drawn from beyond, 100% no minors at stake. Folks, I give you my best freebie at the Art Section.

 

[MasterPaladin]

I understand what you are saying. I think it traces back to when vhs/dvd stopped being the thing and clips4sale became the market. The thought that goes into each individual one is much less, it seems. Videos used to be plot-based, and were evenly split with m/f and f/f. Now vids get churned out very fast, mostly with no real plot, just two people together, sometimes with next to no talking between them. Laughing Gas Zone and a few others are exceptions, and I wonder how their sales stack up.

I have had many sites in the passed. When I started you needed a domain and the knowledge to make web pages today you don't, 150 to 200 dollars and a cam = a video and clips for sale is your free site or place to put what you shoot. The prob. I think is the competition out there when I joined clips for sale I was making over 400 a month today even if I was still shooting I would be lucky to bring in 50 every 2 months.
Part of the reason for just pumping out clips and short ones these days is to keep your name on the front page of clips for sale. The producers in the top 50 don't have to worry about this because there always on the front page. I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the money to waist teaching a model for the first hour what to say the plot how to react so on and so forth. One model I hired and I paid the most for was not ticklish at all and it was her first tickle vid. not she does tickle vids and laughs her ass of in them, I sit here and laugh knowing she is faking it but she does it very very well.

This is just my thoughts on this subject I may not be totally correct but I am not all wrong.

 

[BellaRisa]

Leaving aside the fact that there's only so much creativity you can put into this sort of thing without adding dialogue and plots and whatnot, if you took away all the creativity and just produced a series of clips showing girls being tickled in various positions, how do you reckon that'd affect your sales?

I'm not trying to shit on anyone's toils, because God knows the last thing the world needs is for people to stop trying new things and being imaginative, but at the end of the day no matter how much effort and thought goes into the making of a tickle video, you've got to know it's not going to be appreciated. If I have two tickling clips of the same model, one into which a lot of thought and care has been invested and the other which basically has the girl hog-tied on some bloke's bed, and the elaborate one costs 50p more than the inelegant one, I'm going to buy the inelegant one. Even if I buy both I'm not going to notice the extra care put into the first clip; my attention to detail gets sort of lost in a haze of Kleenex and tugging.

Like I said I'm not into shitting on people for trying to be innovative, I'm just saying that from the average punter's point of view originality and creativity are low on the list of considerations when purchasing their pornos, and as such there isn't much compelling producers to make the extra effort to be original. If you've got producers who recognise this and are willing to put the effort in anyway then that's laudable, but they're in the minority as far as I can see and as long as the dynamic remains the same that's probably the way it'll stay.

I see where you're coming from, and you're definitely making sense. Keep in mind though: it's not just about the $ for those of us who actually have this kink, as I've said none of us are getting rich, and frankly our creative efforts don't go unappreciated. I've received countless emails and PMs about clips I've done that people felt were fresh in some way, most recently the bubblewrap clips; that recognition is valued and does make one want to find more creative and fun ways to film 🙂

 

[-Hari-]

From day one creativity in anything instantly starts to drop, Once youve used an idea, its never a new idea again, and as time goes by, there are less REALLY new ideas available, always nice when someone comes up with something new/ish but also thats just one more idea set up to get old.

I quite like this tho, and I will keep liking it until/unless it comes to a grinding hault eventually and there are no new ideas left,

But things as they are, its making some people push boundaries to see if they can put something new on the table.

Things have been pretty samey recently I guess, but ide bet its not long before someone comes up with something new.

The humblers a good example(altho not f/m as far as im aware, not sure how specific you want to be on that.)

 

[Knot Amewzed]

Oddly though, it seems as if the quality and even quantity of M/F work seems to have declined. This is strictly my opinion, at least. I remember when I had first joined and there was large amounts of clips that were M/F and contained more then just plopping a female lee into a set of stocks and having a male tickle her. Or even some masked male tickling a generically bound woman.

I'm not saying that all of M/F that doesn't contain something besides stocks or another spread eagle tie is gone, but it seems to be a lot harder to find. I remember one of the first clips I loved watching was ViperGTS's clip of Becca-- Blurring the line.

It contained more then just 'tickling'. The whole chemistry and set up, all the way to the camera angles and fading work was done amazingly well. Also, when ZenTickling first came onto the scene awhile back, he had brought in these extremely charismatic girls who did more then just lay there and laugh.

Do Producer's even take request or scene ideas? I'm not saying everything out there is dreadfully dull. However, I do feel that the M/F scene creativity is dwindling.

I am in 100% agreement. I would like to pose a few questions.

Do any of you feel that some of these videos seem like they are more about a paycheck than the true art of tickling?

Did supplemental or chief income persuade some of these producers to pump out quanity over quality?

With the exception of a handful of producers, i.e, Bella, Viper, and Realtickling (before the redundant shift), originality is a dying breed. Jo, you seem to be dead on balls accurate; producers should take advantage of the fact they they do have an audience. Speak up, ask for popular demand; personally, I have a tank full of ideas that remain untouched due to personal time restraints.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Do any of you feel that some of these videos seem like they are more about a paycheck than the true art of tickling?

Sort of, yeah I do. As I said before, I might just be finicky. I think that there should be more added to it, that will be enjoyable for the viewer as well as make them want to spend more to see what else is available.

If you're truly enjoying what you're doing, then it's going to show through your work. IMO, a lot of Producer's *might* enjoy what they're doing, but it's become almost mechanical. Some have gotten too comfortable in one position.

Did supplemental or chief income persuade some of these producers to pump out quanity over quality?

I'm not sure, honestly. I don't want to speak for the producers as much as I just want to speak to them, you know?

Speak up, ask for popular demand; personally, I have a tank full of ideas that remain untouched due to personal time restraints.

More or less; I do as well. It's gotten to the point at times where I've considered just doing it my damn self. 🙂 I mean, if *I* want to do it for more then just a solid paycheck, I can't be the only one.. right?

 

[Knot Amewzed]

If you're truly enjoying what you're doing, then it's going to show through your work. IMO, a lot of Producer's *might* enjoy what they're doing, but it's become almost mechanical. Some have gotten too comfortable in one position.

Exactly!

I'm not sure, honestly. I don't want to speak for the producers as much as I just want to speak to them, you know?

I understand completely. They can freely respond to this question as well.

More or less; I do as well. It's gotten to the point at times where I've considered just doing it my damn self. 🙂 I mean, if *I* want to do it for more then just a solid paycheck, I can't be the only one.. right?

Hellllllllllllll yeah! There are so many of us out there. I know that it was short lived, but I posted about 20, 5 minute clips, in the videoclip section for free. I am not saying that one should or is entitled to do so, but doing something unrelated to money IMO usually proves one's passion.

P.S. I forgot to add Magic Touch to the creative list...sorry...lol.

 

[BellaRisa]

Sort of, yeah I do. As I said before, I might just be finicky. I think that there should be more added to it, that will be enjoyable for the viewer as well as make them want to spend more to see what else is available...If you're truly enjoying what you're doing, then it's going to show through your work. IMO, a lot of Producer's *might* enjoy what they're doing, but it's become almost mechanical. Some have gotten too comfortable in one position...I don't want to speak for the producers as much as I just want to speak to them, you know?...
More or less; I do as well. It's gotten to the point at times where I've considered just doing it my damn self. 🙂 I mean, if *I* want to do it for more then just a solid paycheck, I can't be the only one.. right?

I don't think you're finicky at all, frankly I feel the same way. One of the reasons I got into producing in the first place was because I wanted to see the little scenarios in my fantasies onscreen. My Big Huge Plan has always been to start out with simple videos and work my way up to actual mini-movies, and though it's taking me a few more years than I thought (damn that real job and family ) that's what I'm doing. My mentors from my other kink are Tony and Eve from Shadow Lane, the spanking video company I worked for a few yrs back; they could easily just make straight-up spanking clips but they've produce actual storylines since 1987, and it really sets them apart from other companies AND pulls in the female audience. These days they do break up their videos into clips that you can stream, but plenty of people want the entire DVDs so they can enjoy the scenario as well as the action. I believe that's what you'll see with tickling material eventually, so those who only want the action can have it while those who want the entire experience can be satisfied as well 🙂

 

[Deleted member 66627]

I believe that's what you'll see with tickling material eventually, so those who only want the action can have it while those who want the entire experience can be satisfied as well 🙂

I hope so. 🙂

Again, I'm not saying what is out there is absolute crap. But, it's more then just the aspect of tickling that makes it enjoyable for me.

Just with straight up Porn. I own a 65 dollar porno because it has an established and solid storyline as well as the fucking.

I call it Porn with Plot. 😀

 

[Knot Amewzed]

I call it Porn with Plot. 😀

I call the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy a porn with a plot; buying the DVD fucked me for 20 bucks.

One of my favorite books, but the film was such a letdown. 🙁

 

[Redmage]

I think when producers get into a rut it's because they hit on a formula that sells well, and stick to it. They're reluctant to change because they've got a sure thing with what they're doing, and any move away from that might not sell as well. Producers who are making money hand over fist can afford to take a chance on something new, but there aren't many of those producers out there.

Back in the day, you had producers like Real Tickling, Solefully Yours, Rock's Concepts, and Tickling Paradise doing some fairly creative things. The difference was that there was relatively little tickling erotica out there, so anything was likely to sell at least fairly well. Even stuff that everyone acknowledged was bad - like Cal Star - still sold. Today there are well over a dozen tickling producers on Clips4Sale, and competition is much tighter. I think there's a real fear among producers that if they break away from their proven formula some other producer who sticks to it will siphon off their sales.

The sad fact is that F/F sells better than M/F. F/M doesn't sell as well as F/F, but it serves a niche market that's big enough to make it profitable. M/F tends to appeal to the same buyers as F/F, but it doesn't appeal as much. So you see a lot of F/F, some F/M, and less and less M/F.

I think some of us - even us males - are willing to do something a little more daring and artistic.

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That's a clip I did for Tickling Paradise. I'd be happy to do similar work for any producer who wants to take a chance on it.

 

[Slytickler]

For me it isn't the scenario that is important but more the person being tickled. If the girl is cute it does not make for an amazing video alone. Her laugh is important as well as how she interacts with her tickler. I have found that some of the more plain looking girls are better in videos than much more attractive ones.

A girl tied in stocks can be a great scenario if the chemistry is there between the ler and the lee.

Just my two cents

 

[BigNorm]

Dying? i guess i'm a simple minded chap, but i find it all growing. i'm not really picky, but there are a handful of producers that material they provide is the stufff i love, and i keep finding new interesting companies alot.

i guess it all depends on your tastes.

 

[suikoden]

Interesting thread...

I prefer m/f when it comes to fiction although my initial exposure and interest was f/f, it's a male fantasy - one hot girl tickles another hot girl, she fights it then she loves it, they lez up - Shazam! Well it still works for me when it's well written.

With clips I have to wonder what the demongraphic of the clip buying public is. I would guess largely male. Well what's better than one hot model? Two hot models! So we have a lot of f/f and less m/f. Back in the day I loved TiB but must confess I haven't bought anything since his reinvention. There are still producers putting out good and sometimes great m/f stuff though like Frenchtickling, Zentickling and Czechticklishgirls.

It's a shame the general preference (if output is anything to go by) is for f/f, nude/underwear or bikinis and straight down to business. One of the best tickle vids I ever saw was Paradise Vision's Cop Kitchy Koo which had a plot m/f and f/f and a genuinely ticklish lee. There wasn't really any nudity - only bare belly, pits and feet.

There is a market for plot driven m/f material: ME! Haha. But I am sure I am not the only one. Like with fiction, I want some background and some set up. I really zone out on any story that starts with the ticklee tied up naked. Where's the fun in that?

As well as the producers mentioned above Viper and Tickle Torture put out an interesting variety of clips. Last Laugh has some fun and cute stuff (although it's all f/f) so within the myriad of tickle producers on clips4sale there are people willing to do different things and respond to buyer demand and request (I can definitely say Tickle Torture have done this in the past.)

We are lucky here in that a lot of producers are involved in the community so we can speak to them, and maybe they will speak to us back.

I am sure producers get lengthy requests for whatever scenario which they then base a shoot on only to find that the original requester wasn't feeling it because the clip had a blonde rather than a brunette or she had blue socks instead of red. So you go with what sells the best - hot girls tickling each other.

Maybe the best way to encourage more m/f clips is to just buy the ones the producers put out. That has to be the strongest indicator there is a market for them. Thoughts? Opinions? I dunno.

Anyway I'm rambling now. Stick a fork in me, I'm done. 🙂

 

[BOFH666]

This is a pet theory of mine (called eric for some odd reason) but I think it's down to the quick fix, short attention span that is such an endemic in society at the moment... okay, a little harsh (and a little OTT if I'm being honest) but bear with me here.

I have, on occasion, turned out the occasional piece of original fiction. A while back (five years actually) I was turning out a LOT of it, a story a night almost. My general writing style is to, well, tell a story which results in fairly long pieces of work. Back then they were reasonably popular and great fun to write and get feedback on.

Flash forward five years. My writing is certainly no worse than it was back then (I'd like to think it's better) but the reaction is far, far more apathetic. Why? Well it may just be there are more consumers these days who take and don't reply but my opinion is what I'm producing simply isn't meeting the preferences of the bulk of the consumer base. It's too long, takes too long until the tickling starts and, when it does, I tend to write in a way that invites the reader to fill in the details. That's more work than the majority of people would want to do.

Now, I think that anyone taking a chance and producing a full tickling video these days with story and plot and good camera work would be taking a huge risk for much the same reasons. Clips4sale has provided a way for the consumer to get right to the stuff they want for relativley little financial risk and delivering anything that's trully experimental or 'arty' would be very difficult in that format.

My 2 pence anyway, god knows what it's worth. Who knows, maybe one of these days I'll get a chance to do a video and, if that ever happens, it'd be done as a full script, plot etc and then we'll see how it sells. Of course then it requires models that can actually, you know, act which is a whole other problem but we'll see what happens 😀