N/C Tickle torture from a victim's perspective

[ViperGTS]

Thank you, KT. You hit the nail on the head.

...when it's long and non-consensual, it truly is a form of rape, or at least a form of molestation, and when it's long and non-consensual and parent-to-child, it's a form of incest.

Are you agreeing with them, or are you just re-itterating their point?

*hopes to whatever God there may be that it's the second one...*

 

[BellaRisa]

Mental illness? lol. Then I am CRAZY! What will be next, therapists that specilize in treating tickle victims. Let them have their board, we have ours.

Actually, there are indeed therapists who work with people who were abused by tickling and other means as children. Are you mentally ill? If you enjoy making small children scream and cry just to make yourself happy then yes, I'd say you were to some degree.

Why in the world do so many TMF members refuse to acknowledge the darker side of our kink? This has been driving me nuts for years. I read the entire thread on that women's forum, and I wonder if some folks who responded here actually listened to what those women were saying. We didn't need defending. Nowhere did I see anyone insult or disparage people who actually *like* tickling. That's not what their thread is about. Their discussion is about people, like myself and others here quite frankly, who had big stupid adults hold us down and 'tickle' us until we were crying and furious and feeling horribly powerless and embarrassed and traumatized. You can't expect people who were treated that way and who don't have our kink to look remotely favorably on websites and materials that appear to promote something so similar to what they still consider horrible and abusive. And I don't blame them.

Kittentoes, I think it was you who posted there and mentioned liking what they would consider tickle torture. Um, no offense...but I really doubt that you would remotely enjoy what those women were talking about. Like you, I absolutely adore being held down or tied down and tickled within an inch of my life. Hell, I do it on camera 😎 . But like you, I do it consentually. It's *my* idea, no matter how intense, and the second I decide it's over, it's over. Period. I gave my power away and now I'm taking it back. I trust my 'lers to respect that, to respect ME. I don't believe that a single person here would truly enjoy having people they didn't want to tickle them hold them down and do just that, for as long as that person liked, no matter how much they protested and struggled and cried. But this happens to kids. Having some PITA relative who outweighs you by at least a hundred pounds hold you down and poke and squeeze and HURT you trying to 'tickle', not caring that you're crying and utterly miserable is a horrendous experience, and nobody cares because it's "just tickling" (ARGH ) Maybe it's because I'm just 4'11, but I'm very sensitive to the rights of smaller people, and women and children tend to be those smaller people in our society. Larger folks often treat smaller people like rag dolls and do not listen when we say NO, anybody here who was ever a kid knows what I'm talking about. And nothing in that thread is biased against men, it's speaking out against people of any sex who use tickling abusively. And since people who do that suck, I agree.

Facts are facts. As much as we love tickling it CAN be abusive if the other person doesn't want it and you're doing it anyway. Speaking out about it is a very, very good thing.

Bella

 

[ViperGTS]

Why in the world do so many TMF members refuse to acknowledge the darker side of our kink?

Bella

Bella, it's good to see you again...I haven't seen your posts lately. You coming to NEST this year? 😛

I don't see anyone disregarding the fact that there are sick people out there who use tickling as a way to get around their problem with being child molestors. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of us know that such a thing is wrong, and are still condemning that kind of action.

I've read through the thread, and I agree with many here: the women on that site are treating tickling as though it's a horrible thing, that it should be banned and made a federal offense punishable by death. The posters from the TMF are defending the fact that tickling is an enjoyable, fun activity, but are still sympathizing with those who have suffered the "darker side of our kink."

Non consentual, child abusive tickle torture is a completely different world from what we practice. but we all know that, don't we?

 

[BellaRisa]

This reply is for the fellows who were taking the side of the women's site. One woman also mentioned that she would not allow her husband to tickle their children and freaked out whenever he did, which is not a healthy attitude to pass on to your kids....I have already received a reply to my post on the women's forum. The respondent says that my post has confirmed that tickling is sexual and therefore would be a form of rape or abuse. She has missed my point that it is sexual for me, but would not be so if someone other than my ler' of choice were to tickle me, and that for the majority of people it is merely a happy and natural way of releasing endorphins. So I may have to venture yet again into the "hornet's nest" and clarify....

I went and read those posts again. Actually, the first woman said that she didn't stop the tickling at home if she could see that her kids weren't being held against their will and could easily get away. That makes her an excellent mom. Also, the woman that said your post confirmed the sexuality of tickling (which it did, which isn't a bad thing) also wrote "As is the case with any form of sexuality, if it is forced, it is not only wrong, it is cruel, it is rape, and it is illegal." That's true, its assault, and I agree with her.

And, um...yeah I'm being a pest, but I don't think the majority of people find tickling to be "merely a happy and natural way of releasing endorphins." There are a lot of us who love it, but I'm pretty sure if you asked 100 adults, even folks who love other forms of intense sensation, the majority would list tickling as annoying or just tolerable. I could be wrong on this but that's been my experience so far...

Bella

 

[aun_existe_amor]

I agree with bella on this one !

 

[BellaRisa]

Bella, it's good to see you again...I haven't seen your posts lately. You coming to NEST this year? 😛

I don't see anyone disregarding the fact that there are sick people out there who use tickling as a way to get around their problem with being child molestors. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of us know that such a thing is wrong, and are still condemning that kind of action.

I've read through the thread, and I agree with many here: the women on that site are treating tickling as though it's a horrible thing, that it should be banned and made a federal offense punishable by death. The posters from the TMF are defending the fact that tickling is an enjoyable, fun activity, but are still sympathizing with those who have suffered the "darker side of our kink."

Non consentual, child abusive tickle torture is a completely different world from what we practice. but we all know that, don't we?

Heya Viper!

Yes, I'll be at NEST this year, I was VERY unhappy to miss 2005 due to my hubby getting horribly sick just a few short days before (lost my airfare and everything ) Nuthin's keeping me home this year

You're right when you say "I don't see anyone disregarding the fact that there are sick people out there who use tickling as a way to get around their problem with being child molestors", but some people are, in my opinion, making light of how traumatic and upsetting NC tickling can be. It's a theme I've seen often on this forum. That's why I quoted the one person joking about therapists. Frankly, it's not remotely funny. Furthermore, somone needs to go find me where any woman in that thread made *consentual* tickling out to be horrible or in need of banning. My point is that the thread is about noncon tickling, the kind that hurts and damages emotionally as well as physically, which IS horrible and should indeed be done away with. And to be blunt, people who were harmed by it and have finally found a good place to talk about that without being belittled (it's just tickling!) probably don't feel the need to be 'enlightened' by random folks who are sexually excited by what they remember as horrendous and overwhelming. I could be wrong, but...

Non consentual, child abusive tickle torture *is* a completely different world from what we practice. And what we practice isn't at all what they were talking about.

Bella

 

[ViperGTS]

And, um...yeah I'm being a pest, but I don't think the majority of people find tickling to be "merely a happy and natural way of releasing endorphins." There are a lot of us who love it, but I'm pretty sure if you asked 100 adults, even folks who love other forms of intense sensation, the majority would list tickling as annoying or just tolerable. I could be wrong on this but that's been my experience so far...

Bella

Just for that, I'm going to do a random survey of 100 people sometime soon, and see what happens.

Interestingly enough, A Nony Mouse posted again to the sexist site (lol), expressing a similar opinion of mine as said earlier. It looks like it was deleted within an hour.

Radical femenists!!

EDIT:: I played "computer nerd" and did some hunting in my brower's history...found a cached version of what Nony posted. Here it is.

Originally posted by smilinize:

You post has confirmed the sexual nature of tickling. As is the case with any form of sexuality, if it is forced, it is not only wrong, it is cruel, it is rape, and it is illegal.

Thank you for your input.

smile

I'm sorry for posting again to this thread, but I must dispute.

Tickling is NOT sexual in nature, point blank, as you put it. For the same token, neither is kissing in some respects, but SOME people find it to be arousing.

Just because you (and I don't mean YOU specifically, I mean any given person in question) were held and tickled against your will as a child does not mean you were raped, as you imply with your post. It means you were tickled.

To be completely honest, and I am fairly certain someone will not take this too well, I would like to see any of you call the police and say that someone raped you, then when they ask you fro a statement, you write down that the man held you down and tickled the wits out of you.

Non-consentual tickling does NOT equal rape, and tickle torture is NOT sexual in nature. Different people take it different ways. In no way am I defending the people who harassed you as children, but someone holding you down and tickling the daylights out of you for a feeling of control is NOT sexual, either (unless of course, the offender was becoming aroused from it, in which case, tickling isn't the issue, it's a form pedophelia, in which tickling is the only somewhat "acceptable" way to get around the fact that touching children is unacceptable for them).

 

[drew70]

I think the one person in this thread who hit the nail on the head would be wendynpeter. Okay, make that two people. I'm convinced "bj" is likely one of us tickle folk who decided to do a little "fishing" expidition and came back with a full net. Even the name "bj" doesn't sound like the kind of name most women would wear. More of a guy thing.

I agree with the majority who say that abusive tickling of children is wrong. However, having said that, I'm thankful and greatful to the females in my own childhood who abused me wickedly in this fashion.

 

[ViperGTS]

Shit, I WISH I would have been held down and viciously tickle tortured as a child. And yes, I mean mercilessly. Worse than some of these women could have imagined. lol.

 

[chrisheaven]

Well, we're all entitled to our opinions.
We are also entltled to disagree with others.

 

[BellaRisa]

Shit, I WISH I would have been held down and viciously tickle tortured as a child. And yes, I mean mercilessly. Worse than some of these women could have imagined. lol.

This is what I mean when I say that people here often belittle what this type of experience is actually like. Viper, with all due respect, I sincerely doubt that you wish that as a child or 4 or 5 you were held down by some adult that you did NOT want touching you, and poked/pinched/dug into until well after you were screaming and crying and *hated* that adult. Notice I didn't use the word 'tickled', because from my own past and many MANY others I've spoken with the ticklers weren't even actually tickling, just doing something they thought was tickling. Trust me, I actually share this kink with you-this kind of incident in your childhood isn't something you look back on with fond memories. In fact, many of us have to work against it to fully enjoy our kink because of trust issues. No one thinks about such things before assuming they would have enjoyed it simply because they love tickling; having it truly forced on you, when you're too young to have a voice, is far from appealing. I would not have used the term 'rape', as one poster on that forum did, but I fully understand why she used it.

Funny, no one ever says that they wish some uncle or older brother had constantly held their head under water so they couldn't breathe and felt helpless and violated and afraid, but if 'it's just tickling'...

Bella

 

[ViperGTS]

This is what I mean when I say that people here often belittle what this type of experience is actually like. Viper, with all due respect, I sincerely doubt that you wish that as a child or 4 or 5 you were held down by some adult that you did NOT want touching you, and poked/pinched/dug into until well after you were screaming and crying and *hated* that adult. Notice I didn't use the word 'tickled', because from my own past and many MANY others I've spoken with the ticklers weren't even actually tickling, just doing something they thought was tickling. Trust me, I actually share this kink with you-this kind of incident in your childhood isn't something you look back on with fond memories. In fact, many of us have to work against it to fully enjoy our kink because of trust issues. No one thinks about such things before assuming they would have enjoyed it simply because they love tickling; having it truly forced on you, when you're too young to have a voice, is far from appealing. I would not have used the term 'rape', as one poster on that forum did, but I fully understand why she used it.

Funny, no one ever says that they wish some uncle or older brother had constantly held their head under water so they couldn't breathe and felt helpless and violated and afraid, but if 'it's just tickling'...

Bella

Touche. Note how I don't say anything about digging, hurting, or pinching.

But touchee nonetheless.

EDIT: I think I will go to that website and ask them why the Lifetime channel is TV for women, yet they're always showing something about a woman being beaten, raped, molested, stalked, etc.

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

I think I will go to that website and ask them why the Lifetime channel is TV for women, yet they're always showing something about a woman being beaten, raped, molested, stalked, etc.

Please don't on our account, ViperGTS. Just leave it alone, man. Let it go.

 

[ViperGTS]

I don't think you saw the [/sarcasm] tag there, bro...

 

[avi595k1]

I think the problem isn't the tickling, it's who's doing the tickling. Fathers and uncles?!! That's terrible! I once tickle tortured my baby sitter, but the thought of a father tickling his daughter is simply creepy.

I hope those women get help.

 

[KittenToes]

Yow! Lots of opinions...

Hi everyone. I've got to quote a few people in here, so bear with me. First of all, I would like to thank everyone who "took my side".
I did not enter that forum to argue with the people there, merely to show another side to something that terrified them. I would like to reiterate that I certainly do not advocate any sort of child abuse. However, those women did not label that thread "abusive tickling of children" They labeled it "torturous tickling" and listed it under mental illness. Perhaps the problem is merely in the labeling.

Frankly, I'd love to hear what the women on that forum think of a MALE ONLY forum. Somehow, I doubt they would be very receptive to it.
(ObleedingMe)(quote)
Trust me ,as a woman who considers herself a feminist but one who does not have a sclerotic mind, those women would NOT take well to a male only forum. I seriously doubt there is a "boomer men speak" forum.

I think the one person in this thread who hit the nail on the head would be wendynpeter. Okay, make that two people. I'm convinced "bj" is likely one of us tickle folk who decided to do a little "fishing" expidition and came back with a full net. Even the name "bj" doesn't sound like the kind of name most women would wear. More of a guy thing. (quote)

You may certainly be right, which leads me to the difficulty of having an exclusionary forum such as this one on the Internet, and the quote below.

Also I am with Jeff in so much as I support peoples rights to organise private clubs (i.e. would we want a continual steam of spanking/watersports fetishists on the TMF posting their material, and trying to convert us).
(toneus79) (quote)

Yes, it is their right. However, they opened themselves up to the topic by having that thread, just as we , if we started a thread titled, for instance, "Tickling and Spanking" we might get a few spanking enthusiasts putting in their 2 cents worth. Also, I was not trying to convert them, merely show them the other side. Besides, it is very hard to have a "private club" on the Net, due to its open nature. Any number of"women" online could possibly be men, and vice versa. I think it was very honest of the male TMF member to admit his gender to them from the start, as he could very easily have just said he was a woman.


Bella, I was going to quote all you had said, but you have so much material! I'm sure you will recognize the points I mention without your quotes posted above them.

Well, Bella. a couple things. Yes, I also am very sympathetic to smaller people, being one myself. I'm 5'3 and 95 lbs. , so the average person can overpower me pretty easily. I certainly do not advocate abusing children in any way. When asked my opinions on corporal punishment, I always say, "only between consenting adults"! So, if the thread on that site is meant for the discussion of N/C tickle torture of children, it should have been labelled exactly that. Would I have enjoyed what those women were talking about as a child? No. But in my opinion, they were making blanket statements regarding "those awful websites" most likely including ours. I also found it quite amusing that they were ever so concerned with the appearance of a man on the thread, devoting quite a few posts to him and his removal.
I have tried on a couple occasions to be a member of a women's group. (at university)However, I find that when a group is exclusionary, it does not provide a place for valid debate and discussion, but rather a place where one's prejudices can be validated. That's my own personal experience with so-called "female empowerment" groups.
As for other adults , some enjoy being tickled and some don't. Some just aren't ticklish! But most would agree that laughter releases good endorphins. Most that I have spoken enjoy tickling to some degree, if not to the extent that TMF members do.
You say that you did not see any anti-male sentiment in that thread, but I did. As a woman, you know that what is said in print is not always all there is. Even on the Net. you can read between lines and sense underlying hostility. That is what I saw there. Some might see it differently, but I felt the need to respond to what I saw.
Lastly, ANYTHING unwanted, especially when inflicted on a child, is abuse. I never disputed this, just tried to show a group of people the positives of something I enjoy very much, and maybe open a few minds to something new. I'm very glad my ler' (Jon) spotted this thread and pointed it out to me. I love intelligent debates!

 

[OBleedingMe]

I think the problem isn't the tickling, it's who's doing the tickling. Fathers and uncles?!! That's terrible! I once tickle tortured my baby sitter, but the thought of a father tickling his daughter is simply creepy.

I hope those women get help.

What the hell is that matter with you!? A father horsing around with her daughter is NOT creepy - it's LOVE. A BOND between father and daughter, just like a mother horsing around with her son is love.

Geez, according to you, I must be a serial rapist - I give my nephew airplane rides every time I see him!

 

[Italian_Touch]

I think the problem isn't the tickling, it's who's doing the tickling. Fathers and uncles?!! That's terrible! I once tickle tortured my baby sitter, but the thought of a father tickling his daughter is simply creepy.

I hope those women get help.

Oh my... so YOU abused your own baby sitter?!?!
What a shame: that's embarassing for her even to report!

😉

 

[ViperGTS]

A father tickling his daughter is playful, loving, and innocent. I have every intention of bonding with my children in this way when I have them.

Fathers who tickle torture their daughters as a form of control, is SICK. Get your stories straight, people.

Italian_Touch: There's an edit button. Use it.

 

[OBleedingMe]

This was recently posted on that forum:

Originally posted by Dotsie:
[QB] Ladies, FYI, A Nony Mouse came back and posted again and I had to ban him from the fourms. I don't like doing this, but he said he was finished, and continued to post.

Onward. [/QB]

Hmm... I wonder how all you women would take to a MEN ONLY forum where it is simply "not a woman's place" to post... what hypocrites you are. This forum is nothing more than a place for women to get together and talk about how much they hate men. As a proud MAN, I find the idea of Women's Only forum repugnent and the height of hypocrisy. You fight for "equality" and then what do you do? You create segregated colleges, schools, clubs, internet forums, etc.

You people equate getting TICKLED to RAPE!? Most of you must have not been abused to throw that word around so cheaply. Wow... according to you guys, I must abuse my niece and nephew every week!! I give them airplane rides, horse around with them, etc. Of course, it's all about POWER and CONTROL... not love and affection, an emotion no straight man is capable of, right, "ladies?" 🙄

You say it's okay for a heterosexual woman to have sexual freedom... but what about men? What if there are men out there who enjoy dominating consensual women in a BDSM setting? Would you disapprove of such a situation, even though there are many women out there who enjoy dominating men?

I'm sure this post will be promptly deleted, as I have a penis and that invalidates my opinion in your little Misandrist world.

 

[OBleedingMe]

I can't believe the ONLY person on ths thread that sees the anti-male sentiment on that forum is a woman. C'mon, guys, just because they're women doesn't mean they're not capable of hatred!! Are you guys REALLY that blind!? I'd wager that 90% of the women on that forum probably weren't abused... they probably just got dumped by their husbands or boyfriends and now they're trying to cook up rationals for how they feel.

KittenToes hit the nail on the head - groups like this exist for one reason and one reason only - to breed hate. All they do is talk about what horrid creatures men are. After years of festering, these sort of groups churn out the most dispicable of theories. One of the more recent Misandrist Theories: "Visual Rape." Yep, there are some twisted people out there that want to make the act of men who LOOKS at women a punishable offense. If punishing a man for looking in the wrong direction isn't the "Power & Control" these women claim to loathe, I don't know what is. I can just imagine the huddled group of women who thought this one up: "Yeah, there's always guys who look at me! I walk into a room, and men look at me! I'm not a piece of meat! They should be punished for acknowledging my presence! They don't deserve to look at me! I have a vagina! I'm a goddess!"

Here's another one from Germany: "Standing Urination." There are actually women out there who want to OUTLAW urniating while standing. They feel it's "unsanitary." Oh please, if that's not penis envy, then I don't know what is! If I remember correctly, they even invented sensors to tell whether or the urinator was standing or sitting.

These are the sort of theories you get when like-minded persons of hate get together. It reminds me of the outrageous theories the Nazis came up with about Jews, the KKK came up with about blacks, the Jihadists came up with about Western civilization, etc.

 

[TMF Jeff]

I think you spend way too much time generalizing, bleeding, and not enough time looking at specific people and their specific comments. You're so busy getting frothed up about the idea of a woman only forum that you can't see how it might actually be a good thing, even a necessary thing for certain individual women who might feel they need a place to be away from the judgement of men. And considering how judgemental you are, I think you would be the first one to understand that. I certainly won't be the one to insist that women have to co-exist in the same world as you 24/7.

And I think you could not be more wrong about the reaction to an all male forum. Except that there would inevitably be some women who see the world the same way that you do but in reverse, and they would probably be bothered by it.

As for the rape comparison, it's at least as fair, valid and balanced as this:

These are the sort of theories you get when like-minded persons of hate get together. It reminds me of the outrageous theories the Nazis came up with about Jews, the KKK came up with about blacks, the Jihadists came up with about Western civilization, etc.

 

[OBleedingMe]

I think you spend way too much time generalizing, bleeding, and not enough time looking at specific people and their specific comments. You're so busy getting frothed up about the idea of a woman only forum that you can't see how it might actually be a good thing, even a necessary thing for certain individual women who might feel they need a place to be away from the judgement of men. And considering how judgemental you are, I think you would be the first one to understand that. I certainly won't be the one to insist that women have to co-exist in the same world as you 24/7.

And I think you could not be more wrong about the reaction to an all male forum. Except that there would inevitably be some women who see the world the same way that you do but in reverse, and they would probably be bothered by it.

As for the rape comparison, it's at least as fair, valid and balanced as this:

I'm not saying that a Women-Only forum should be outlawed or disbanded. What I'm saying is that 99% of modern feminist out there "want their cake and the ability to eat it too." In other words, they want SEGREGATED colleges, SEGREGATED sports leagues, SEGREGATED clubs, SEGREGATED support groups, SEGREGATED internet forums, but when a man wants the same things, they condemn it. For instance, take the latest "crusade" in which women are trying to bully their way into all men's golf clubs. They call them sexist and misogynistic instituions, while at the same time they have women's only golf clubs, and they WILL NOT allow men in. They want it both ways, man. They want to break down all-male gender barriers while erecting all-female gender barriers. Can't you see the double-standard there, Jeff?

See, I think it's OKAY for men and women to have separate clubs. I understand perfectly the need for BOTH genders to get away from each other and have a boys only or girls only night out. I'm totally cool with the idea of a woman's only club. What I'm NOT okay with is the disbanding of men's only clubs, and that is what feminists have been trying to do for the past 15 years.

I hate hypocrisy, that's what I get all "frothy" about, lol.

 

[Butterfly wings]

Come to think of it now. What is all the up roar and fuss about? So some ''All Women's'' Forum online does not like tickling so they made a long thread about why they don't like tickling.

Too many personal attacks on this thread. Opinions are one thing. But when other members online on a forum such as this start taking out thier boxing gloves then that is a whole other matter.

Be kind to others (I have had to learn that the hard way)

 

[ViperGTS]

Interesting.

Good idea, his idea was of a sexual nature and totally off the subject.

Tickling is NOT sexual in nature, point blank, as you put it. For the same token, neither is kissing in some respects, but SOME people find it to be arousing.

Just because you (and I don't mean YOU specifically, I mean any given person in question) were held and tickled against your will as a child does not mean you were raped, as you imply with your post. It means you were tickled.

To be completely honest, and I am fairly certain someone will not take this too well, I would like to see any of you call the police and say that someone raped you, then when they ask you fro a statement, you write down that the man held you down and tickled the wits out of you.

Non-consentual tickling does NOT equal rape, and tickle torture is NOT sexual in nature. Different people take it different ways. In no way am I defending the people who harassed you as children, but someone holding you down and tickling the daylights out of you for a feeling of control is NOT sexual, either (unless of course, the offender was becoming aroused from it, in which case, tickling isn't the issue, it's a form pedophelia, in which tickling is the only somewhat "acceptable" way to get around the fact that touching children is unacceptable for them).

Funny how the FIRST FOUR WORDS of Nony's deleted post completely disqualify this woman's post.

Are all sexists blinded by their hatred? And before someone says it's not hatred, how can someone possibly this stupid? Only a disgust for everything male would make someone not be able to read the post.

As for Run....whoever that is is a moron. Learn how to express your opinion without attacking.