Person Whos Been Banned From The Most Groups?

[Dade]

So youre saying not to say what you want? Damn! This country changed since Reagan was president!

The country hasnt changed. Freedom of speech NEVER meant saying anything you want. Saying things to purposefully hurt others or infringe upon THEIR rights has never been allowed by law in this country.

Harassing women (or men) privately or publicly have not been allowed either. That's why you have been kicked off so many forums, ******. It isnt because you state an opinion on something, but the way you treat others that gets you into trouble. The mods shouldnt have to teach you "social graces" , your mama should have taught you those.


~D~

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Quoted it for safekeeping.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

I don't see how its safe just because you quoted it or why you'd want to record it, but ok. 🙂 You're welcome I guess. 🙂

Yeah, it may not win this "contest" for whose been banned the most times, but its certainly one of the most serious single ones I've seen posted so far (which counts for alot more than just one given the circumstances. Its not the same as just getting on people's nerves, breaking rules and causing some sort of general discomfort. In comparision, thats petty stuff compared to what I went through. But then again, this thread is seemingly for being banned by your own fault (so as to profess to being some kind of selfappointed hellraiser or troll). What I went through wasn't my fault, so its not the same in that regard even though it ended the same way).

Err..actually, I didn't end the same way in the end. So nevermind I guess. LOL 😛

It still counts as a ban however for all intents and purposes.

 

[Duke Diablo]

At least were all intelligent adults here.

Hey! Who you call in... nght... inght... gnihg... whatever! :lol:

 

[Kalamos]

I don't see how its safe just because you quoted it or why you'd want to record it, but ok. 🙂

Just as a reminder.

 

[Dussicar]

The only forum I got banned from was the PALLADIUM BOOKS official discussion board.

But considering how they run that place, getting banned from there is pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Just as a reminder.

A reminder to me or everyone else, and for what?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, if anything.

 

[nessonite1]

I dont think it will surprise anyone that I've never been banned from a forum...angel that I am lol.

 

[Dade]

Nor have I. (yet)

(LOVE the artwork in your sig Ness!!!!)

 

[Kalamos]

A reminder to me or everyone else, and for what?
I'm not sure what you're getting at, if anything.

A reminder to everybody for mistakes to be avoided.

Clashing with staff is bad. Even if you are right and they are wrong.

 

[CoopXLR]

The only forum I got banned from was the PALLADIUM BOOKS official discussion board.

But considering how they run that place, getting banned from there is pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel.

Heck! You ought to see the rules and bans on the Capcom BBS! That place is insane and super touchy!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thats true. But what made it worse was that it was a staff to staff issue Kalamos, so its not the same dilema because if they had just been regular members all they could have done at the most was complain or try and tempt mods. The members had nothing to do with it and I didn't "clash" with anyone. This was a case of a group of people not liking another person apparently and keeping it a secret long enough to the point that they could actually do something about it.

I'm sure you didn't mean it to seem this way, but it feels, the way you worded it, like I'm partly to blame for what happened. I did absolutely nothing wrong. There was no clashing. They were really good at playing an act and pretending like everything was fine, so there was no way for me to even know anything was wrong (in their opinions) to begin with.

If they felt there was a problem with my work in some way (which there wasn't because everything I did and/or said got approval from the owner every time) they should have fostered that feeling of staff togetherness and talked to me about it. Rather, they sabotaged me without a word.

So there was no way to "avoid" this Kalamos because they were staff too, even though I had more abilities, options and given authority and favor (which in part necessitated their deviousness). They planned and plotted. Unless people appear sneaky and devious (with the anonimity of the internet) you can't tell. It was sudden, just like a coup, a move for the throne.

The only lesson you could teach anyone here from my experience with that affair is that greed and jealously can bring out the worst in people. To think, they were so jealous of me they would do what they did and try and ruin my relationship with the people, the other staff, and the owner in an effort to take for themselves what I had or secure what they already had. And even then only one of them would have been able to have it. What then? Fight amongst themselves like vipers in a pit?

A few bad apples they were, but just a few. Every site has them. But what made this difficult was that they had power.

They wanted me and my position, and they got what they wanted in a matter of hours or...so they thought. I obviously got the last laugh which makes even talking about this sweet in it's own way. 🙂

Thats karma and retribution for you. Complete innocence is met with complete reward, and the rightious are not put to shame in the end, not in real life, not online. 🙂

 

[Lucifer1]

Posting someones info (address, name, phone #) on an open forum such as this is illegal according to the NYC FBI Internet Fraud Divsion. Just wanted to let you guys know. If you do post it however you go to a special place called jail. Believe me you wouldnt want to go there. Its crowded, boring and very, very cold. A word of caution is all.

 

[Dade]

Good point Lucifer. Posting full personal info with the intention of harming someone's reputation is indeed illegal, but turning it over to licensed agents for investigation is not.


In fact,internet stalking and harassment are illegal across the country and not just in NY. If you are aware of someone involved in said activities and have verifiable proof, you are obligated (by law) to disclose this information to the proper authorities for investigation.

I run into this on an almost daily basis in my line of investigative work. (private sector not federal).

You would be amazed at the number of people who think that they are "anonymous" on line when in reality they leave a trail from forum to forum and website to website., not to mention AIM, Yahoo and all other chat methods.


The info gleaned from these areas can be corelated and the perpetrators tracked with relative ease by the proper authorities.

It is this feeling of anonimity that makes them dangerous predators to many unsuspecting folks. So dont give out your personal info to those you do not know VERY well.

 

[Lucifer1]

Yeah well I agree with that ironically. However it seems everytime something doesnt go a womans way its "sexual harrassment" or "stalking". Do the paparazzi stalk? I asked my sisters friend out on a date on the phone is that stalking? I mean everyones so friggin paranoid nowadays. You must run into this all the time eh Dade? What unit do you work for if you dont mind me asking?

Good point Lucifer. Posting full personal info with the intention of harming someone's reputation is indeed illegal, but turning it over to licensed agents for investigation is not.


In fact,internet stalking and harassment are illegal across the country and not just in NY. If you are aware of someone involved in said activities and have verifiable proof, you are obligated (by law) to disclose this information to the proper authorities for investigation.

I run into this on an almost daily basis in my line of investigative work. (private sector not federal).

You would be amazed at the number of people who think that they are "anonymous" on line when in reality they leave a trail from forum to forum and website to website., not to mention AIM, Yahoo and all other chat methods.


The info gleaned from these areas can be corelated and the perpetrators tracked with relative ease by the proper authorities.

It is this feeling of anonimity that makes them dangerous predators to many unsuspecting folks. So dont give out your personal info to those you do not know VERY well.

 

[Dade]

What unit do you work for if you dont mind me asking?

I dont mind you asking, but I do not give out that info publicly. It would interfere with my ability to do my job properly.

To answer your other question: Asking someone out is not harassment, but continuously asking someone out after they have said no CAN be.

It is all about perception VS Intent.

The law reads that harassment is based on the "perception" of the person receiving the unwanted advances, phone calls, emails, pms, etc. It does not matter that the person emailing, calling or etc. does not INTEND to harass.

If a female ( or male) feels uncomfortable with your actions they can file a complaint and will usually win. This is especially true in the workplace and is becoming moreso in the ever growing internet community. Just look at all of the internet "sting" opperations that are set up on a daily basis to go after online predators, and not just child molesters.

One piece of hard evidence is all that is needed to file a complaint. It usually results in a restraining order, or job dismissal (in the case of at work advances)

If the perp has ANY kind of criminal record, he/she may find themselves back in jail for 1-5.

Hope this info is useful to all.

 

[Lucifer1]

No! Im not gonna lose my temper like I did yesterday on another site and have to beg the mods to let me back in. Im using logic this time and just shutting the computer off. The harrassing messages have been sent to the mods and im pissed that there is not one....no im not finish that sentence and im not gonna blow up like yesterday. Im tired of begging people in the aftermath.

 

[Kalamos]

The members had nothing to do with it and I didn't "clash" with anyone.

...

I'm sure you didn't mean it to seem this way, but it feels, the way you worded it, like I'm partly to blame for what happened.

...

Rather, they sabotaged me without a word.

...

So there was no way to "avoid" this Kalamos because they were staff too, even though I had more abilities, options and given authority and favor (which in part necessitated their deviousness). They planned and plotted. Unless people appear sneaky and devious (with the anonimity of the internet) you can't tell. It was sudden, just like a coup, a move for the throne.

...

They wanted me and my position, and they got what they wanted in a matter of hours or...so they thought. I obviously got the last laugh which makes even talking about this sweet in it's own way. 🙂

You are to blame as in not being able to foresee their actions.
You said you had favour and position. Yet you couldn't see that your very presence harboured jealousy.
Either that, or you're "adjusting" facts in your story.

When somebody takes a dislike on somebody else, there is no being right or wrong.
Just being there is wrong already.

The day I find a knife through my back I'll be blaming myself for acting too slow.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm sorry, but I'm to blame for nothing. Its not my job to forsee people's actions or feelings in advance when they've never shown any hostilities to begin with. Its unreasonable and impossible. And then to say I may be "adjusting facts" is calling me a liar for this not making sense to you when I can't explain it any more clearly than I have.

You make it seem like I had something to go on, a hunch or something and I decided to do nothing or was aware this would be a problem and chose not to deal with it or to rub my position in their face (something I never did so couldn't attribute to their disliking me). I always treated them as equals even though I had more say so. I'm not responsible for other people's feelings and its very stupid to suggest I should be able to discern what people are thinking of me and when, especially the negative thoughts, when they've shown absolultely no hostility of any kind prior. I'm not going to assume they are jealous of me just because. Thats selling them short, which at the time I had no reason to. I can only react to them, just like you or anyone, and as I said, I had no time to do that. This whole thing happened instantiously.

Sure, I was lied to obviously by those individuals, but that doesn't make me slow.It just made them good decievers and they paid for it. You're basically saying I should have had a hidden suspicion for everyone with no reason to believe so. Well, sorry, I wasn't going to be like them or be paranoid or have a negative mindset like that. Thats a very pessimistic way to comport one's self.

In part, I had that job because I had earned that trust. To pretend its not there for me from the people below me doesn't make sense. Even if I had suspected any of them for any reason, you can't really do anything until they do, and you know that.

Its like a troll here or others members we've had that have since been banned. Nothing was really done about them until they did something worthy of administrative action. Those people are what we like to call rule dancers. They dance on the fine lines of the rules to piss people off because they know what they're doing is wrong, but its opinionated and within the rules just enough that nothing could fairly be done because it would infringe on their rights.

With these other mods of mine they weren't like your run of the mill trouble makers. They were professional when they had to be, but in the seconds that it mattered they were not, and that is not something you can honestly say I should have forseen or expected. Its silly and laughable and I think you know that.

"Just being there is wrong already".

To THEM, in their JEALOUSY and mindset while being that way, yes, but outside of how they personally felt for me in the logic of it all, no, I had every right to be there and outside of themselves as a group who acted alone (driven by an impulse rather than common sense), there were no problems and the harm they would inflict would appear after the fact, not before or during.

Its really easy for you or me to talk about it in retrospect knowing now what we did not know then and had no way of knowing.

I don't know how you interpreted anything I said as me having had an opportunity to do something about it. If I had, I would have done so obviously, both to protect myself and stop them.

Anything less than satisfactory presense would mean I wouldn't be right for the job. Because a few jealous cowards decide to show their true colors for me in a moment, which was just a moment (that I never saw because I was away when these things happened), in no WAY takes away from my responsibility, integrity, ability or sound judgement and appraisal of situations to get things done in a responsible, satisifactory way.

If this were not so, I wouldn't have been vindicated and let back even after I was proven innocent and that they framed me. While they like to see it as a ban I liked to see it as a temporary suspension until things were figured out. Because no owner in his right mind will have let me go when they figured out what had been done. And since I had no way of dealing with it myself, the owner had to deal with it on my behalf.

Oh how I would have liked to deal with this myself, but sorry, it didn't work out that way Kalamos. This was a unique situation and was so UNconfrontational and subtle that it had to be handled a certain way. And I don't think you're understanding that.

 

[Kalamos]

I'm sorry, but I'm to blame for nothing. Its not my job to forsee people's actions or feelings when they've never shown any hostilities to begin with.

You are taking it as if it happened yesterday.

People change. Grow. Gain experience. Get better or worse.
If it happened today, probably, you wouldn't act the same way.

It's not being psychic. It's knowing human nature and learning how to deal with it.

And then to say I may be "adjusted facts" is calling me a liar for this not making sense to you when I can't explain it any more clearly than I have.

Fine with me. You got the ban. You got reinstated.
All's well.

I'm not responsible for other people's feelings and its very stupid to suggest I should be able to discern what people are thinking of me and when, especially the negative ones, when they've shown absolultely no hostility of any kind prior.

I disagree.
We are often responsible for people's feelings. Because of what we say. Because of what we do. Because of the way we act.
Even if we act right and have a sterling reputation. Sometimes because of it.

As I said, I quoted your story as a reminder.

Sure, I was lied to obviously by those individuals, but that doesn't make me slow.It just made them good decievers. You're basically saying I should have had a hidden suspicion for everyone.

Not for everyone. Just for those potentially jealous of your favour and position.

If you had acted sooner or differently, they couldn't [wouldn't] have planted false informations [I am relating your words].

You stated that you were "too talented, too resourceful, too well-liked and too experienced" for your own good.
That's what I'd call good self esteem.
Some people like self esteem. Others resent it as bragging and might confront you about it.
That's where jealousy and clash stem from.

Anything less than satisfactory presense would mean I wouldn't be right for the job. Because a few jealous cowards decide to show their true colors for me in a moment, which was just a moment, in no WAY takes away from responsibility, integrity or ability to get things done.

You are relating things without showing the logs.
There is no way for me to tell the truth.
So I won't bother.

I rarely believe to "unforeseen" backstabs from lifelong friends. Just that.
Who were those friends, anyway?

Because no owner in his right mind will have let me go when they figured out what had been done.

I guess you consider yourself invaluable.
Hope you are not proved wrong.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

1.) I am not taking it as if it happened yesterday and I have long since gotten over it. Just because I'm articulate on the matter and can recall it in vivid detail doesn't mean I've not grown or whatever you feel I lack as an extension of not being able to let it go. May I remind you the only reason I shared this was because of this thread and it's topic. You never would have heard this otherwise.

Knowing human nature is something I know. I'm well versed in that. However, dealing with people like them is not something you can prepare for. No matter how "ready" I could have been for a situation like this, there was no way to prepare for it. You couldn't, no one could. Its just one of those completely wild random cards thrown in and factored in in the last second.

2.) Yes, all is well. It can also be said because of my nature I got through this fine. If I had been anything less than I needed to be, what they wanted for me will have transpired. Due to the evidence in the logs in that while it showed my account as the one changing the site parameters and ruining the work the owner had done, traces of their usage, not mine, of my account were just a couple of the things left behind that would later prove my innocence.)

3.) Ok, I'll partly agree. We are responsible for the possibility of the inclusion of those types of feelings, but its all in their ability or lack therefore to sort these feelings out in a mature and responsible manner. That is not something I can do for them. I am not their keeper and my reach or responsibilities to them do not reach that far as they are their own people with their own identities and I cannot tell them how to act, only correct them and rear them right when its possible. It was not possible in this instance.

4.) You say, again, if I had acted sooner. Sooner against what? You're suggesting that I should have taken preemptive action (with no reason) against people who had commited no crime at all. How would that make me look, what ramfications would that have for me and the site and them and the good name of the owner who appointed me with confidience? See, I don't think you're looking at this in the greater scheme or picture or are trying to. You seem to want to be able to look at one aspect of this and, in retrospect, and say if you had done this or that better this wouldn't have happened.

There was nothing to correct, nothing to stop. Why can't you understand that? You don't go on a witch hunt for no reason and you don't accuse your own staff unless theres reason to. Thats just common sense and its the responsible way to handle things.

Yes, I said those things as a matter of fact, not necessarily as a facet of my personal self-esteem. I stated factual truths about my job performance. I was talented, I was resourceful, I was well-liked, and I was experienced.

Those are facets of my WORK and the satisfactory of that, not ME as a person.

Finally, for this portion, they couldn't have seen it as bragging, because, again, I never really talked about myself or my position. I just did what I had to do. Again, you seem to be imagining that there was some kind of cause for their jealousy which is my fault, like I somehow planted seeds, unknowningly that would eventually erupt into jealously and contempt.

I did nothing but do my job and did it well. From their point of view of course they would hate me, because I must have been showing them up unintentionally and they just couldn't take it anymore. Something clicked in their minds telling them this guy has got to go if we're going to keep our jobs.

Their jealously of my relationship with the owner is another thing. Why be jealous of that when they could have had the same level of friendship with him that I had if they wanted to invest the time to make it so? They're jealous because they're lazy?

Point- They were doing these things to themselves. Rather than increasing their work ethic and being better mods and having better relationships with the rest of the staff, they took the easy way out and THAT is NOT my fault or responsibility. I had no way to see it and no way to evaluate it and neither did the owner.


5.) Because the evidence of the logs shouldn't matter to you, I am not sharing them in detail. I don't see how it matters. If you want to not believe me for whatever reason that is, thats fine. I'm just telling it like it is. I didn't mean for this to be a tell all anyway. But since you are nitpicking specific things I, in turn need to be specific as well.

Also, I never said they were friends. They were co-workers. And don't tell me that because they were not personal friends I should have suspected them to have these types of jealous tendancies. Lest I refer you back to # 3.

6.) I do not consider myself invaluable. Based on my work ethnic, yes, as evaluated, condoned, and encouraged and praised by the owner, the general populace and other staff members. If they believe these things are so, then theres nothing cocky or arrogant about believing these things as good values in my work, and, by extension, good values of me as a person.

Are these assets and qualities of my work identifiers of me as a person? Not really. They're just a facet of what I brought to the table. And because I was/am very particular about leaving business as business and private life as private life, I essentially cut the two off from becoming intermingled and causing potential problems.

Finally, (wheh) theres nothing to prove wrong. The situation has come and gone and I have long since been removed from it. Let it stand as a tale OF or having to do with banning, as this thread requires.

EDIT:

Now please tell me we're finished here. I don't relish the thought of continuing this because its going nowhere in a hurry.

 

[Kalamos]

No matter how "ready" I could have been for a situation like this, there was no way to prepare for it. You couldn't, no one could. Its just one of those completely wild random cards thrown in and factored in in the last second.

Then you were simply unlucky.
However good your job was, your co-workers turned upon you.
It happens.

See, I don't think you're looking at this in the greater scheme or picture or are trying to. You seem to want to be able to look at one aspect of this and, in retrospect, and say if you had done this or that better this wouldn't have happened.

I don't think there ever was a greater scheme.
It was just a forum, and jealous mods gave you a temp ban.

I don't think I would get myself in the kind of position you had. You weren't a mod, yet you acted beyond the call of duty [just relating your words].
And they resented it.

I wouldn't get this personal, though.
We are different individuals. We are by no means comparable.

There was nothing to correct, nothing to stop. Why can't you understand that? You don't go on a witch hunt for no reason and you don't accuse your own staff unless theres reason to. Thats just common sense and its the responsible way to handle things.

I wasn't suggesting a witch hunt.
There are other, subtler, ways to act.

I don't think you would consider anything but point position, though.

Finally, for this portion, they couldn't have seen it as bragging, because, again, I never really talked about myself or my position. I just did what I had to do. Again, you seem to be imagining that there was some kind of cause for their jealousy which is my fault, like I somehow planted seeds, unknowningly that would eventually erupt into jealously and contempt.

I am not imagining things. Not about you, at least.
We all do things that grate on somebody's nerves.

I could mention more than a couple people who probably cannot stand me at all. And a whole host of guys who don't care for me as well.
That's life.

If you really think people had no bone to pick with you, that's fine with me.

I did nothing but do my job and did it well. From their point of view of course they would hate me, because I must have been showing them up unintentionally and they just couldn't take it anymore.

I would agree if you were talking about a real job.
It was just a forum, and as far as I know, it's free stuff, not a paid occupation.

One more lesson to be gleaned from your account, and another reason for quoting your story for safekeeping.

The evidence of the logs shouldn't matter to you, I am not sharing them in detail.
I don't see how it matters.
But since you are nitpicking specific things I, in turn need to be specific as well.

I am hearing your version of it, only.
It's not nitpicking. It's giving credit to you alone.

On the other hand, this is well beyond the scope of this thread, and of my original post.

Est modus in rebus; I still think you were part of the problem. But I am not telling why or how, since it would be OT.

Now please tell me we're finished here. I don't relish the thought of continuing this because its going nowhere in a hurry.

I had no point to prove.
I wanted to set a reminder for future reference.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

One more thing- Either you're under a false assumption or you made a typo with this:

"You weren't a mod, yet you acted beyond the call of duty [just relating your words].
And they resented it."

The whole apex of my situation was that I WAS a moderator, and not only that, but what is generally refered to as a super moderator, one who has more abilities and a higher position than a regular forum mod. I would have been called to do more than them anyway. Especially afterwards when this was over with the promotion to administrator.

So...unless that was a typo on your part with the "you weren't a mod", no wonder you see this the way you do. I don't see how you could make such a mistake though or overlook that, since I've stated many times throughout this that I was set upon because of my higher position and my performance through that. Obviously if I was just a member there would be no point to this discussion.

If I was just an oridinary member attempting to call the shots or directing people when I had no right to then obviously I would have deserved that. Its the fact that I had the higher position to begin with that made them resentful.

Also, to be technical, it wasn't them that banned me. They didn't have the authority to do that. I was suspended/banned for a time so this matter could be investigated and then the supsension/ban was lifted after I was found innocent. They merely provided the cause, not the act itself. Of course, it would have been a perfect crime for them if I had been banned. Its what they wanted afterall.

Enough about me though. We've both taken up more than enough time on this one case. 🙂

 

[Kalamos]

No false assumption. You mentioned "the staff under and above you".
You didn't state what kind of position you had.

Being staff doesn't always mean being a pleno jure moderator.
I am staff myself on TTC, but I cannot ban people straight away. Yet.

If I ever got full mod powers I wouldn't want to soil my public persona. Further...
I'd have a backup account set up just for modship.

I am under the impression some users actually enjoy clashing with moderators.
Lucifer, for example, is almost keeping a score of his bans.

I wouldn't want my main account to be targeted by would-be hackers just because they dislike authority figures - however small that authority might be.
Nor I'd suffer trolls demeaning my art just for the sake of it.

Besides, I don't really think somebody might complain about us slipping out of topic.
Between you and me [and the people still reading us]... I wouldn't care.

I never got a ban. Not because I am a likable fellow. Not even because I can rule-dance.
I simply leave before things turn really ugly.

Being on a different time slice helps: I usually get online when most users log off, and go to sleep just before most american mods turn back online.

I rarely get the last word, so I rarely get the blame for fuelling flames either.

The worst thing that ever happened to me was a staff-member-turned-moderator-for-a weekend, trying out the delete feature with a post of mine.
No big deal.

They made me staff a while after, so I guess I am a trustworthy fellow too, after all.
I'm not even that quirky.

Are you still attending that forum?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm a moderator here too, in the same limited capacities that you are. But thats neither here nor there.

I just got dealt a bad hand with some bad people. Thats what I chalk it up to. Theres nothing I could have done that I hadn't already and there was no way to prepare for something like that. All you can ever do is your best, and if people are jealous of that and hate you for your success, well, we can only hope they approach it maturely. They didn't, and they were banned for it, I was let back on, and with the promotion I would have been getting to boot. So alls well that ends well I suppose.

And no, I'm not attending that forum any more because the owner decided to close and delete it. He didn't have the funds anymore to fianance the site. Which was a shame because it was a good site. He was a really good coder and was making an RPG system completely from scratch and we were both testing the beta versions before those jerks did what they did. It would have been a really great system if it would have been finished. I helped create sprites and graphics for the game and he did the mapping, and layout and all of that. There were other coder friends of his that were involved in the project, but he knew them better than I did.

It would have basically been a smaller, more community based version of the Gaia or Ragnarok sites (and it would have been free of charge, no membership fees or anything like that). Aside from the gaming aspect, it was already a general anime/manga/video game site with the same type of subforums this site has (things like general discussion, current events, etc.)

We had a good run, and he may be getting his affairs together and starting the project back up, I'm not sure.

 

[Dade]

Hey folks! Havent we beat this dead horse long enough. None of it really makes a difference and we really dont need 20 pages devoted to you two going at each other like we had the first time around.

Please let it go so we dont get yet another locked thread.