Piercing babies ears

[Cosmo_ac]

I was walking into a store today and saw a women with her baby in the shopping cart as she was putting her groceries away. The women looked to be in her mid twenties, the baby was, i don't know, maybe a year or less old. I noted as I walked by that the baby had little earings in (studs), and as I walked by I looked to make sure, and no, they weren't clip on. They were real earing studs. Now, i can understand dressing a baby up. I can understand why people have their baby boys circumsized, even when they are not religious. What I can understand is why in fucking god a parent would pierce the ears of their baby when they don't even have the ability to speak yet. I just don't get it. Is it to save them the discomfort when they get older of having their ears pierced? Are doctors now piercing the ears once they finish with the cutting of the imbilocal cord? What is going on?

Rant over.

 

[BellaRisa]

Um, what?

I was walking into a store today and saw a women with her baby in the shopping cart as she was putting her groceries away. The women looked to be in her mid twenties, the baby was, i don't know, maybe a year or less old. I noted as I walked by that the baby had little earings in (studs), and as I walked by I looked to make sure, and no, they weren't clip on. They were real earing studs. Now, i can understand dressing a baby up. I can understand why people have their baby boys circumsized, even when they are not religious. What I can understand is why in fucking god a parent would pierce the ears of their baby when they don't even have the ability to speak yet. I just don't get it. Is it to save them the discomfort when they get older of having their ears pierced? Are doctors now piercing the ears once they finish with the cutting of the imbilocal cord? What is going on?

Rant over.

Hon, doctors have been piercing babies ears for a very, very long time; my pediatrician did mine when I was just 2 days old in the early '70's and I happen to know my mom's doc did hers as a newborn in 1948. I understand that many people feel it's barbaric/wrong/kid can't consent yadda yadda, but as a mom of two little girls myself I can tell you that having it done while they were tiny (less than three months old both times) wasn't an issue in the slightest. They were too young to disturb their ears during healing and it was a *breeze* to care for the new piercings during nightly bath time. Heck, both ears were done at the same time lightning fast and neither of them cried for more than 10 seconds, in fact my younger daughter never even woke up, lol. And it's DONE already; they've both had years when they chose to wear earrings and years that they didn't, no problem either way. After a similar discussion in a parenting forum I recently asked them both if they minded having pierced ears and they looked at me as if I'd lost my mind, they've both seen friends and little girls freaking about having it done at the mall and they love that for them it was done a long time ago 🙂 As for the why, for me it was a family tradition for baby girls and a part of the culture in which I grew up, simple as that.

Not being the owner of a penis I can't speak for certain, but I suspect that comparing a quick and barely uncomfortable earlobe piercing to the slicing off of the foreskin is a bit unbalanced; I don't think they're quite comparable 😉

 

[CurtWild]

Not being the owner of a penis I can't speak for certain, but I suspect that comparing a quick and barely uncomfortable earlobe piercing to the slicing off of the foreskin is a bit unbalanced; I don't think they're quite comparable 😉

If you are married, then I believe you are an owner of a penis. 😉

I agree that the comparison if a bit off. When you mention that they don't have the ability to speak yet, do you mean that they have not given consent to have their ears pierced? Cause if that's the case, had I been given the choice of an ear piercing or the doc taking a knife to Gigantor....I'll take the ear piercing for $1000, Alex.

 

[elmsyable]

My mother didn't let us pierce our ears until we turned 12. Actually, she made it an occasion to get and get them pierced with us. It was nice. 🙂

However, I don't think I would have minded if she pierced them at birth.

 

[Angel77]

It's not something I would do if I had a baby girl. To each their own but I'd prefer to wait until they're old enough to ask for it.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

See, i can understand the getting it at a young age so it's done ahead of time, though I don't think i'm ever going to get used to seeing babies with pierced ears. It almost seems like people are acceessorizing their kids. Granted, i suppose i should give people the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I admit, i grew up in a small town, so I don't think I even saw babies with pierced ears until i was probably in my late teens or early twenties, and even then it was a rarity. It seems that i'm seeing it a lot more these days.

As far as circumcission goes, from what i understand there are some health reasons as to why people should be circumcised.

 

[BellaRisa]

See, i can understand the getting it at a young age so it's done ahead of time, though I don't think i'm ever going to get used to seeing babies with pierced ears. It almost seems like people are acceessorizing their kids. Granted, i suppose i should give people the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I admit, i grew up in a small town, so I don't think I even saw babies with pierced ears until i was probably in my late teens or early twenties, and even then it was a rarity. It seems that i'm seeing it a lot more these days.

As far as circumcission goes, from what i understand there are some health reasons as to why people should be circumcised.

I was wondering where you grew up that it was an unusual sight for you; I'm from New York and baby girls without pierced ears are more of a rarity 🙂 The health reasons for circumcising get debunked periodically, people are having it done to their sons less and less; I'm sure there will be a re-bunking and the number will rise again at some point, it goes in cycles (I'm a preschool teacher/infant caregiver, I know these things lol)

 

[kis123]

I have five sisters on my mom's side and a whole bunch of girls on my father's side. It was usually get your ears pierced asap; it didn't work with me too well because I had metal allergies and my ears would never heal. My sisters would by 99 cents earrings from the local convenient store and they'd be great. I'd buy the most expensive earrings you could imagine and they'd be awful.......I was so jealous of them.

I waited until my daughter turned four before she got her ears pierced and everything went well. Then I took her at age 13 for a cartilage piercing and she did well there too.

I guess it's all about who you ask.

As far as circumcision is concerned I'm for it 1000%. But the last time I commented on the subject it turned into a three ring circus....I'd rather not go there again.

 

[Amnesiac]

Yeah, even I, probably the most hardline ANTI-CIRCUMCISION person on the forum (as kis can attest) have a hard time seeing the comparison.

As Bella mentioned, the procedure is so fast the pain doesn't last more than a needle puncture from a syringe, which isn't MUCH different from a vaccination shot (a smidge, but not a lot).

From a physiological standpoint a puncture through thin fatty tissue is nowhere near the same as shearing off an entire flank of flesh, AND the best part about ear piercings is that the ear returns to normal if they heal. Foreskins don't regenerate, but ear holes do, so if you don't want pierced ears, all you have to do is quit wearing earrings and they'll go back to normal.

You COULD make an argument that it's wrong to do it without the child's consent (I kinda would) and that culture bias shouldn't be reinforced along gender lines, but I'm of the opinion that if you wanted to make those arguments, you could pick a better example than ear piercings.

So even though I share concern, I don't think the two processes are anywhere NEAR identical in consideration.

Even kis and I--who are on completely opposing ends of the circumcision argument--are pretty much on the same page on this one.

 

[c7_assassin]

I don't think it's ever too early to start teaching young girls that their value lies in their aesthetic appeal and the supreme importance of self-adornment. I say go further; give your three month-old baby a tramp-stamp. They probably won't feel much pain, and it saves having to get it done later. 🙂

 

[BellaRisa]

I don't think it's ever too early to start teaching young girls that their value lies in their aesthetic appeal and the supreme importance of self-adornment. I say go further; give your three month-old baby a tramp-stamp. They probably won't feel much pain, and it saves having to get it done later. 🙂

Dude, get over yourself and climb down off that high horse, if you really can't see a difference between earrings and a 'tramp stamp' I'm concerned for you. For as long as families have existed all over the globe parents have given our babies of *both* sexes an appearance that appeals to us for both traditional and aesthetic purposes, from the way we dress them to how their hair is cut and beyond. There are indeed cultures that tattoo at young ages and have for centuries for their own reasons, it's usually tribal and not for us to judge unless we're truly that self-centered and small minded. I take it you intend to dress your child in a plain brown sack until they reach age 18, unless the color brown is too much 'adornment' and might give your child the wrong message about their value? 😉

Hell, these days baby boys are having both ears done as well as girls, and I'd go so far as to argue that having it done as infants and never making an issue and production of it goes in the opposite direction of making an occasion of it when they're older concerning the importance placed upon it, but that's just my theory 😉

 

[c7_assassin]

Dude, get over yourself and climb down off that high horse, if you really can't see a difference between earrings and a 'tramp stamp' I'm concerned for you.

I thought I was being sarcastic too. Until...

For as long as families have existed all over the globe parents have given our babies of *both* sexes an appearance that appeals to us for both traditional and aesthetic purposes, from the way we dress them to how their hair is cut and beyond. There are indeed cultures that tattoo at young ages and have for centuries for their own reasons, it's usually tribal and not for us to judge unless we're truly that self-centered and small minded.

So that means you really don't believe there's a significant difference between infant tattoos and infant piercings. So given the ubiquity of the tramp stamp, better to get it done as an infant, like you said. Less of a 'production.'

And that's only a facetious point if you would also have pierced your son's ears as an infant. If not, why not?

 

[stroker]

I don't think it's ever too early to start teaching young girls that their value lies in their aesthetic appeal and the supreme importance of self-adornment. I say go further; give your three month-old baby a tramp-stamp. They probably won't feel much pain, and it saves having to get it done later. 🙂

Yeah but tramp stamps really need matching plastic tits to complete the ensemble and Im thinking three months is maybe a bit soon for that,

 

[Angel77]

See, i can understand the getting it at a young age so it's done ahead of time, though I don't think i'm ever going to get used to seeing babies with pierced ears. It almost seems like people are acceessorizing their kids. Granted, i suppose i should give people the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I admit, i grew up in a small town, so I don't think I even saw babies with pierced ears until i was probably in my late teens or early twenties, and even then it was a rarity. It seems that i'm seeing it a lot more these days.

As far as circumcission goes, from what i understand there are some health reasons as to why people should be circumcised.

My friend just went through the circumcision debate with her husband (who's from England and not circumcised) with her new baby boy. She was used to seeing men with cut penises and he wasn't - definitely a difference in culture there so I can see that being a cultural thing. It is with some groups. And it's also a religious thing for others. And of course, the good ol' health debate. And some just chose to do it because it's considered "normal" in society. Maybe not for everyone, but a lot of folks do feel that way.

So I can see the comparison with the ear piercing thing. Some do it because it's a cultural thing, some just because, etc.

But that aside, I see babies with pierced ears all of the time here. I used to work in a mall for almost 7 years and right outside of my store, there was a piercing kiosk and daily, I'd hear the screams from babies who were getting their ears pierced. And while I think it's great if some kids don't cry like that, I found that isn't true for a majority of the babies I saw (and heard) get it done over the years. It doesn't hurt any less because they're babies as opposed to when they're older. Hell, I remember when I got mine done at the age of 6. Hurt like a bitch.

But of course, I toughed it out and didn't cry and ended up getting ice cream afterwards. So it was a positive experience. 😛

And I'm glad that my mom waited until I was old enough to decide that's what I wanted done.

Hmmm, where was I going with this?

Oh yeah...

I suppose when it's your kid, you can do what you want with them as their parents but for me, I personally would wait until my children were older. Hot topic huh? 😀

 

[BellaRisa]

I thought I was being sarcastic too. Until...


So that means you really don't believe there's a significant difference between infant tattoos and infant piercings. So given the ubiquity of the tramp stamp, better to get it done as an infant, like you said. Less of a 'production.'

And that's only a facetious point if you would also have pierced your son's ears as an infant. If not, why not?

That so-called 'point' is facetious no matter what conditions you try to attach to it, but for the record my son would have had one ear done (and wouldn't have been circumsized, but that's a different thread 😀) again due to a mixture of tradition and culture and yes, aesthetics. He'd have had the option of wearing an earring or not, just as my daughters make that choice every day. Meanwhile, what you're choosing to call simple sarcasm I read as needless attack on those of us with happy and healthy children who did indeed have their ears done as babies. Hopefully that wasn't your intent. Again: I'd like to assume that you really were being 'sarcastic' and that you do have enough intelligence to see the umpteen differences between pierced ears and a 'tramp stamp', the very least of which being the ability to remove an earring anytime one pleases. Furthermore, while I personally would not want to subject a baby or young child to the long and painful process of tattooing I do respect the tribal tattoos given to babies and young children in other lands, which carry actual significance to that family and those people and seem to have no negative consequences to those children as they grow up in those societies.

Finally, you never answered my question: do you intend to dress your children in plain sacks with no adornment whatsoever, to keep them from receiving the wrong messages about their value lying in their aesthetic appeal and the supreme importance of self-adornment? Why or why not?

 

[c7_assassin]

Finally, you never answered my question: do you intend to dress your children in plain sacks with no adornment whatsoever, to keep them from receiving the wrong messages about their value lying in their aesthetic appeal and the supreme importance of self-adornment? Why or why not?

I suppose in all fairness, no, I won't. But I'm going to save the part that's about expressing their personal tastes and preferences until they're old enough to have personal preferences, you know? If my little girl comes to me and says she wants her ears pierced, okay, that's when we have to deal with it. I mean, is it the role of parents to help society fuck up our kids?

 

[BellaRisa]

I'm going to save the part that's about expressing their personal tastes and preferences until they're old enough to have personal preferences, you know?

This is something I hear from lots of parents before they become actual parents 😀.

May I ask how you're going to accomplish that? Our babies cannot pick out their own clothes and haircuts and shoes and such, we do it for them and we do it based upon what we like, because infants can't give us their opinions on blue vs green or long curls vs pixie cut. We also choose to have them vaccinated or not, give them vitamins or not...we make 100% of their decisions until they can make them themselves and that's (gasp!) our job. And heck yes it's also fun, one of the joys of being a parent! There's no sin in dressing your baby girl in pink frills (or in my case a lot of black and red and Yellow Submarine onesies), as long as when she's older and can make the choice she's allowed to do so 🙂 Having pierced ears isn't the same as being forced to wear earrings, my daughters both went years without wearing them but loved having the option.

I mean, is it the role of parents to help society fuck up our kids?

Now this we can agree on. I hear and respect what you're saying, hell that's why I strongly dislike those little girl pageants with tons of makeup and heinous amounts of yelling and crying and pressure that seem very obviously detrimental to those children. While there are definitely ways to overdo it as far as gender roles and the importance of beauty and all of that, my daughters know full well that they can be and do anything they want in this world regardless of their sex or appearance; we reinforce that every day as their parents and role models, and so far tiny holes in their ears hasn't interfered with our message 😉

In my experience as both a child with ears pierced early and as a Mom who had it done for both daughters, pierced ears don't "fuck up" a child (unless some odd parent puts weird associations with it). All it does is give them the choice of wearing earrings. Period. To make it bigger than it is just gives you a headache, lol. I asked my nearly-14 yr old daughter about this over breakfast, and she actually told me that plenty of guys in her middle school have one or two earrings, it has nothing to do with being a girl in her mind. In fact it's not something she gives any thought at all 'til I brought it up, lol, and I don't believe her ears affect how she sees herself as a young woman. They do, however, give her a bit of a bond and connection with her Mama and her little sister and the other women in our family, and that's not a bad thing 🙂

 

[c7_assassin]

We also choose to have them vaccinated or not, give them vitamins or not...we make 100% of their decisions until they can make them themselves and that's (gasp!) our job.

Okay, but now you're being silly too. If a parent really chooses not to have their child vaccinated, I'd call that a rather dangerous form of child abuse. For all my apprehension, I wouldn't call pierced ears child abuse.

Now this we can agree on. I hear and respect what you're saying, hell that's why I strongly dislike those little girl pageants with tons of makeup and heinous amounts of yelling and crying and pressure that seem very obviously detrimental to those children. While there are definitely ways to overdo it as far as gender roles and the importance of beauty and all of that, my daughters know full well that they can be and do anything they want in this world regardless of their sex or appearance; we reinforce that every day as their parents and role models, and so far tiny holes in their ears hasn't interfered with our message 😉

I respect what you're saying too, we're just seeing the issue from different perspectives. I mean, to you beauty pageants cross the imaginary line from being fun and harmless into the realm of something icky and vaguely sinister. I probably draw that line at anything that amounts to body modification, so I can't feel comfortable at the thought of pierced ears on an infant. And there are doubtless mothers who would say that you're being closed minded about beauty pageants (also very much a generational and culture thing too, btw). So how do we realistically draw a line between the two?

 

[Bothersome]

I have a bit of a double-standard on what should be done to a child before they can consent to it.

I have a bias when it comes to a circumcision. I was circumcised as a baby, and I really don't care. However, the thing is... if you're going to get a circumcision, it SHOULD happen before you can remember the pain. A piercing(of the ear variety) and a circumcision are completely incomparable. A piercing can be done at a young age, yes... but that's something that you can postpone until late childhood. You can allow the kid to make the decision for themselves, because the pain is simply not comparable.

Again, I have a bit of a double standard on the subject though, and I freely admit that. When it comes to piercings though, I really think that the child should get to decide. I don't have a piercing, and I never will. I find that it's completely unnecessary, and will only be an annoyance during airport security.

 

[chicago]

I would have rather had my ears pierced when I was an infant and didn't know what was going on than wait til I'm 10, get so worked up and excited that I pass the fuck out in the process. Yeah.

 

[BellaRisa]

Okay, but now you're being silly too. If a parent really chooses not to have their child vaccinated, I'd call that a rather dangerous form of child abuse. For all my apprehension, I wouldn't call pierced ears child abuse.

Just an FYI, I'm not being silly at all, at least I wasn't trying to be; you may not be aware but a LOT of parents are choosing not to have their children vaccinated, and some people even believe that vaccinations can lead to autism (!) Just google "vaccine debate" or "vaccine wars". Here's a pretty good article: http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?Id=380 It's a raging argument with strong emotions on both sides, that as a preschool teacher I've been caught in the middle of more than once (I don't allow children into my care without their vaccinations). I was witness to a pretty rough screaming match about it between my director and a parent when I was a new teacher in Vermont back in the '90's; whether it's abuse or not I won't go into, and my own kids are vaccinated. I'm just saying it's not a given anymore like it was back in the day and at this point in time it is indeed something parents have to decide without waiting for the child to be old enough to have an opinion.

I respect what you're saying too, we're just seeing the issue from different perspectives. I mean, to you beauty pageants cross the imaginary line from being fun and harmless into the realm of something icky and vaguely sinister. I probably draw that line at anything that amounts to body modification, so I can't feel comfortable at the thought of pierced ears on an infant. And there are doubtless mothers who would say that you're being closed minded about beauty pageants (also very much a generational and culture thing too, btw). So how do we realistically draw a line between the two?

Speaking purely for myself and my husband/co-parent, such lines are drawn based on the consequences for the child and the family. I freely disapprove of those pageants in general for various reasons, BUT if a kid is having a blast and shows no signs of emotional or physical distress I'm the first to say go have fun. It's the little ones with hyped-up parents screaming in their faces to WIN WIN WIN, punishing them for losing/dancing incorrectly/breathing wrong and messing up their ton of makeup and hairpieces, and spending the family's mortgage money on $3000 toddler dresses that make me sad, because to me that's abusive and there are obvious negative affects that can be far reaching to that child and to the family. Getting a baby's ears done early doesn't come with any of that; I have yet to see a child and/or the child's family suffer long term trauma, emotional or otherwise, because his or her ears were pierced as an infant. Not saying it's impossible, just that I've never known of it 🙂

 

[Persephone]

To each their own.

If you do get this done to your child, it is your decision because well...it is YOUR child.

I personally would want to wait if I ever had any children and let them decide for themselves once they were older.

I only believe that because my sister wasn't allowed pierced ears until she was about eleven.

I was also given the choice and chose to never get my ears pierced. I am glad my mom didn't make that decision for me because I personally have no desire to put any holes or ink on my body 🙂

But again, to each their own. I agree with Bella it is a common thing to see in babies nowadays!

 

[c7_assassin]

Just an FYI, I'm not being silly at all, at least I wasn't trying to be; you may not be aware but a LOT of parents are choosing not to have their children vaccinated, and some people even believe that vaccinations can lead to autism (!) Just google "vaccine debate" or "vaccine wars".

I'm aware. It also seems like you're aware (as am I) that this is a stupid concern, which was spawned by an act of intellectual charlatanism, and has caused a minor epidemic of preventable disease among the newborn. I definitely call it child abuse, but that's a topic for another thread. 😉

Speaking purely for myself and my husband/co-parent, such lines are drawn based on the consequences for the child and the family. I freely disapprove of those pageants in general for various reasons, BUT if a kid is having a blast and shows no signs of emotional or physical distress I'm the first to say go have fun. It's the little ones with hyped-up parents screaming in their faces to WIN WIN WIN, punishing them for losing/dancing incorrectly/breathing wrong and messing up their ton of makeup and hairpieces, and spending the family's mortgage money on $3000 toddler dresses that make me sad, because to me that's abusive and there are obvious negative affects that can be far reaching to that child and to the family. Getting a baby's ears done early doesn't come with any of that; I have yet to see a child and/or the child's family suffer long term trauma, emotional or otherwise, because his or her ears were pierced as an infant. Not saying it's impossible, just that I've never known of it 🙂

To tell you the truth, neither have I. And I'll do you one better; I know that I have absolutely no personal experience with this issue from which to draw, so there's a chance I'm blowing this out of all proportion. The issue of pierced ears is as academic to me as facelifts.

But I still think is basically a children's rights issue, regardless of whether you can prove physical or emotional harm. They're not dolls and they're not property, so any argument that rests on that idea, that what happens to a kid is nobody's business except the parents'...that's bullshit. And you know that.

 

[BellaRisa]

I'm aware. It also seems like you're aware (as am I) that this is a stupid concern, which was spawned by an act of intellectual charlatanism, and has caused a minor epidemic of preventable disease among the newborn. I definitely call it child abuse, but that's a topic for another thread. 😉

However you feel about the subject, my point was that vaccinations are a decision, one of many, that a parent has to make for their child before that child is old enough to make that decision for themselves. It wasn't right of you to say that I was being 'silly' by bringing them up as they are a valid example.

To tell you the truth, neither have I. And I'll do you one better; I know that I have absolutely no personal experience with this issue from which to draw, so there's a chance I'm blowing this out of all proportion. The issue of pierced ears is as academic to me as facelifts.

But I still think is basically a children's rights issue, regardless of whether you can prove physical or emotional harm. They're not dolls and they're not property, so any argument that rests on that idea, that what happens to a kid is nobody's business except the parents'...that's bullshit. And you know that.

Yes, you're indeed blowing the subject out of proportion 😉.

No one here has been so absurd as to equate children with dolls or property, and you know that. If and when you become an actual parent you'll quickly learn that Persephone was quite correct in saying that it's your decision when it's your child; not because our babies have no rights, but because you'll have to make choices and decisions for them every single day that you believe in and stand by but others judge and judge harshly when they disagree. Whether its pierced ears or breastfeeding or type of schooling, nearly every choice you make on your child's behalf can and will be seen by someone looking to argue and condemn as imposing your will and your beliefs upon your helpless little kid and infringing upon their rights as individuals 🙄 In the end you have to be the parent and decide what will most benefit your child and your family and act based on those beliefs, regardless of the naysayers. As a mother I was certain that my daughters would want pierced ears like mine and like virtually every other female in their family, and that having it done early would be beneficial. I was correct. Some may feel that their rights were violated; they don't, in fact they're quite pleased, and frankly that's all that matters.

 

[Oblesklk]

I don't think it's ever too early to start teaching young girls that their value lies in their aesthetic appeal and the supreme importance of self-adornment. I say go further; give your three month-old baby a tramp-stamp. They probably won't feel much pain, and it saves having to get it done later. 🙂

My wife and I just had this discussion last week with our daughter, so you're not alone in the concern and/or observation. Consent is an important aspect of the expression of self to me. So it isn't difficult to ascertain which position I took. Thankfully cooler heads prevailed and we were able to reach a solid compromise; we only put a Mickey Mouse tramp stamp on her. It's classy. And trademarked 😉

(your post made me it hit far too close to home in our talk)