Regarding the last few days problems

[Myriads]

Hello folks,

As everyone cannot help but know, we had some problems these last few days. Situations arose that were not at all the kind of experience that I want TMF users to have.

I have taken steps to prevent this situation from happening again. In this case I have removed a moderator.

I feel that this should settle the issues. Thank you for your patience while this issue was dealt with.

Myriads

 

[Myriads]

Ok....

I think it would be helpful if people saw a bit more of my reasoning behind my choice to remove Kujman as a moderator.

My choice was based not on the contents of anything Kujman said. Nor was it because he defended himself against attacks.

It was because of HOW he did so.

TMF policy for moderators deleting posts has been set for a while. One thing about it is very clear. Posts are moved to a Administrative forum when there is a problem with them. They are not deleted. This is so all mods can see a removed post, and aid in explaining the whys to a user with a question about a posts removal. It also allows for a post to be returned if the removal was not really needful.

Kujman did not follow this policy. he broke it once, and the policy was reinforced in the Admin forum, just so we were clear everyone knew of it. Then he deleted again.

When I added in the fact that a 'hot' thread was locked after user replies were deleted, leaving him with the last word, an exact repeat of a bad situation that I discussed at length with Kujman earlier this year, and had stressed at the time as not the way to do things, I was faced with facts that I had to weigh.

Could I trust this moderator in the future? The answer I kept coming up with was no.

So I removed him as a moderator.

I would do the same to any moderator that acted this way.

This covers how I saw things, and the facts that informed my choices. I've nothing more to say on it, or to debate on it. I had a situation, I made a call.

Myriads

 

[Prime]

thank you for the explaination...it doesnt look like there was any other choice.

 

[Sandman]

We deserved a explination, thank you for it Myriads. It is tough to get rid of a long time Mod and well know guy around here. On the board I run I had to do it a few times. The people didn't leave though. They stuck around and still contributed dispite being a mod. I hope KUJMAN will do the same. He can still be the same good Kujman(he is a good guy) without a little name under his that says "Mod".. Last time I talked with him he did not seem like he was coming back. I do hope he changes his mind.

 

[Dave2112]

Myriads, I don't see where you had any choice. Not that it's exactly the same thing, but I've had to fire people that were my friends over the years, and it's never easy. Nor is it done without good reason, sometimes several good ones. There have to be rules for those in charge as well as for the rest of us.

Or else there would be anarchy...fire from the sky....destruction of Biblical proportions.....dogs and cats sleeping together... ...

Ok, I'm done....whew😀

 

[MikeM]

This is very upsetting. I'm sorry for such a long post. I'm sure this will be deleted. But this whole escapade is unfair to all of us here on TMF who enjoy his moderator status and input. You cannot have one without the other.

To see such explanations which in all respect make no sense is unsettling. Worse yet people buy what ever answer is handed them merely to belong and fit in. The same people that praised him now suddenly denounce him. No. There's more to this.

Honestly, to sit there and post something like "kujman is still welcome to post" after what you've done, and to even agree to it in a post, shows one has little or no understanding of the tickling community history and kujman bullies with obvious chips on their shoulders. Some flourish on TMF. Kujman was your greatest asset. You're essentially asking the guy to sit there naked without protection -- after all he's done -- and after spitting him in the face. You've shown little protection thus far. Why would he post here and be attacked by the very ones who started this trouble?

These moves on the part of TMF appear totally political. I've seen many other mods post such nice things following KJ's posts, but where are they now? Why are they so silent after their accolades?

Myriads with respect to you, I've talked to other mods and even they weren't clear as to what can and cannot be deleted. I asked kujman himself just a couple weeks back and even he told me he wasn't sure --that he just wanted to stop a flame pure and simple. What's so wrong with that? What's the worst that could have happened? You could have re-opened the thread? But now throw away all the good he offers. For what purpose? To please who? To gain what? That's what I'd like to know.

All I see is what we lost.

The TMF treated him like some foul hell bent poster in this event. In fact I've not even seen his side of the story posted anywhere for others to see. I bet it's been deleted. This man not only helped to get the TMF going with his very insightful contributions and was always willing to help to no end but is also a real life hero. You can trust him with your life, but not here on the TMF? None of you would have what you have today were it not for his actions in the 1970's and 1980's eras. Think about it. I won't even go into that further.

In trying to figure out the facts and reasoning you've handed us -- sorry but it really doesn't add up at all. Other moderators have deleted and moved posts and even closed them to stop wars. All you needed to do was perhaps ask Kujman to remove his post. Not treat him as you did.

Other excuses people are passing out are just as lame: kujman wanted the TMF to grow. What's so wrong with that? Or another one is that nameless people had complaints against him. I'd like to see them here. Please NOT the ones from these same tired guys. But actual truthful complaints.

I've not always agreed with kujman, but I listened. He would listen to my side too. And believe it or not, though I might have been of a different opinion at first, when it came full circle, he'd turn out to be right. And I'm not the only one who can say that, but maybe the only one who will.

He never rubbed this in my face or anyone's. Everyone admits he's very helpful and kind in emails, giving of his time and material. He always had time for anyone no matter how many questions they asked.

May I remind all of you of all the accolades laid on him just a month ago when we thought we had lost him? How soon we forget.

He was always safety aware and trying to help others expand their scenes -- something which I'm told now the TMF does not want?

He's the only one here who offered us reality and hands on knowledge. He offered a lifetime of stories and experiences he could display through photos. Do we want to lose that? What do you offer us in exchange?

As I said before, I formally protest and request that you reinstate kujman, or the TMF loses it's greatest asset.


Mike

 

[quinn65]

regular folks and zealots

Fer cryin' out loud, it's an internet board about tickling! Naked without protection? Spitting in his face? I think it's important to understand that there's a huuuuuge gap between the 1% here who live this stuff and the 99% who have fun with it. As someone in that 99%, this kind of reaction just seems a little insane. But then maybe "just get over it" sounds insane to you. I'll never know.

 

[MikeM]

Amazing how I hardly hit the send button and someone has to make a stupid nasty uncaring disrespectful remark. They must sit at their computers all day just waiting to do so.

Quinn you go right along in your type of world. It takes little imagination to figure your kind out.

 

[unitkl]

mikeM, for a person who's only posted 12 times, you sure have an obvious agenda for clearing kujmans name. and while your busy telling others they have no lives and are at their computers all day, i must point out that your extremely long post with paragraghs and everything must have taken at least one hour to type up. a lot of time at the computer wouldn't you say? and what is quinn's "kind" id love to know. and why did you start out your post saying you are sure it will be deleted? very pessimistic outlook on things id say. please lighten up and just go on with life. it'll be ok.

 

[quinn65]

Mike, you make an ironic proponent of tolerance. 😉

But it was quite a relief to finally see you post. Thanks. I was getting a little tired of sitting here waiting for you. Now I can get back to my cancer research.

 

[Uni]

Okay, lets put this in perspective.

I seriously doubt that this man is going to jump off of a roof and smash his head open just because a few people don't agree with him. He seems like a very strong and passionate person, which can be a strength or a weakness depending on the circumstance. Now I have no doubt whatsoever that he was a visionary of sorts. Personally I can't think of anybody doing as much as he has done. I'm sure he's a good man and a fine american. However I'm not going to wither and die on the vine just because he decides to leave. None of us will.

I'll put it this way. If the TMF was some sort of sports stadium, I would be in the cheap seats. I do my best to contribute by spending money for videos, doing my part to keep the stadium running. I also write a bit. I don't do it well, or often. But I try. I get a creative notion and mold it into a reality of sorts. Then I present it. Not much, but if some some other fellow pats be on the back and says "Hey, that's cool man." I get a little bit of a happy buzz. Now some people are more fortunate in a sense. They are able to delve into the sport more deeply than I, due to whatever reasons may apply. They sit in the luxury seats, and have a closer view than I do. Some people envy those that are in the luxury seats, I don't. I'm just happy to be at the game. But that's me.

But as far as I've seen, nobody owns the sport. They have have stock in the stadium, they may even own it. But if the stadium fell, the sport wouldn't. Now I read some of the posts and it seems to me that there is (or was) an argument between somebody in the luxury box and somebody in the nosebleed seats. These things happen. That's life. People got upset, said thing that they should not have, and somebody got ejected. It happens all the time. I would hope that the person that was ejected doesn't give up on the sport, but even if he did rest assured that somebody would fill the seat. maybe I'll fill that seat in, maybe you will. But it will happen regardless. And the sport will go on, regardless.

What a rambling post. I think I call the beerman.

 

[Prime]

"Worse yet people buy what ever answer is handed them merely to belong and fit in".




i may not be the brightest star in the sky...but i think with that phrase..mike called us mindless sheep.....well to you my man i say this......baaaaaaaaaa baaaaaaaa 😛



oh yeah and lighten up dude....i only hope you put half the effort into everything else you did into researching this....just think of what you could accomplish......just let the mod's do their job and quit rocking the boat..or let the guy you speak of handle his own problems....talk about sheep...i only hope if i ever goof up people jump out of the woodwork to save me...not

 

[Dave2112]

Can't Myriads post anything without it turning into an arguement lately? Come on! The decision's been made, let's move on. No one's here to watch an ongoing soap opera, we're here to have fun and try to respect each other. This isn't against anyone in any way, it's just a general appeal for peace.

 

[Prime]

you have a point...it is like a soap opera...i cant wait for the evil twin to join the cast..muhahahaha....errrr anyhow...its hard sometimes to tell whats spirited conversation and whats flaming and arguing....if i jump over the line..someone smack me i wont take it bad...ive learn to put my pride in check a long time ago 😀

 

[qjakal]

WTF?

MikeM...What the hell are you babbling about?

QUOTE
"You're essentially asking the guy to sit there naked without protection -- after all he's done -- and after spitting him in the face. You've shown little protection thus far. Why would he post here and be attacked by the very ones who started this trouble? "

When has anyone been allowed to indiscriminately post and attack ANYONE else? Why would you think it would happen to Kujman if he is a member here? As a Mod, he has different rules and objectives than a poster who is a member.

QUOTE
"You could have re-opened the thread? But now throw away all the good he offers. For what purpose? To please who? To gain what? That's what I'd like to know."

Yeah...Myriads and company are a huge conspiracy of mammoth proportions answerable to government agencies only...sheesh.

QUOTE
"Honestly, to sit there and post something like "kujman is still welcome to post" after what you've done, and to even agree to it in a post, shows one has little or no understanding of the tickling community history and kujman bullies with obvious chips on their shoulders."

You should recount the posts a bit....and show some respect to others that are also a big part of the community.

Gotta agree with many of the others....this is wacky and has gone on way too long. Bye to you.... Q

 

[Tickler2001]

One flew over the cuckoo's nest

Ummmm....yeah, what he said.....

 

[MN Tikl]

Me too

Yeah -- I second what Uni, Tickler2001, Qjakal, Quinn65, and others of like mind said.

As for you, MikeM, I would respectfully suggest that you do Kujman a favor and get off his side. Your treatises, replete with finger pointing and righteous indignation, are not doing him any favors. Face it, Myriads made a reasoned decision, in a good faith attempt to do the right thing. You're free to disagree. But the fact that your posts (which lash out at virtually everybody) are allowed to stand seriously undermines your argument that the TMF is a place that tolerates no dissent.

I hope Kujman reconsiders and returns to contribute to the TMF -- but the battle lines you are drawing are making that more and more unlikely. That's too bad.

 

[kyle]

Re:

I agree with Myriads decision. It may be hard for people to understand why Myriads did what he did if you have never been in his situation. He is trying to run a forum. How can he run this forum without having authority? The mods should go by the rules Myriads set, and if those rules are broken they should be expelled, Kujman is no exception.

 

[redway10]

The winds of change...

How the heck did Kujman go from being written about frequently in 'reverent' terms to being held up as some sort of egomaniac?

The only thing certain is change...

 

[Oddjob0226]

I think this I all way to serious, but....

What if a new rule was established? It takes two moderators ( at least) to lock a topic, or thread. The one guy who wants to lock it uses a persuasive argument on an administrative fourm, and then another administrator ( or two....) help the 1st guy lock the topic/thread. Like the two guys in the movie Wargames when they have to launch the big missle at the beginning but one guy hesitates?( did you see that movie? It was pretty cool but it's kind of dated now, but still, ya know...?) They could even do it in some kind of secret ballot kind of way, so Moderator A can't say "Moderator B didn't vote with me, therefore he must be against me.." I don't know... who am I, Bill Gates?

 

[SuperTickler]

Stopped into this thread to see what the fuss is about. Honestly, you would think the King of England had been forcibly removed from his throne! Come on, people, the position in question is MODERATOR OF A TICKLING CHAT BOARD! If Kujman disagrees with Myriads and the other Mods, he's totally free to start his own chat board where he can be Emperor, Pharoh and Lord High Executioner. I think everyone needs to put this issue into a little bit of perspective and realize that, in the grand scheme of things, this really isn't all that important. 😎

 

[TummyDragon]

*snipped mounds of idiotic horsecrap*

Mike

Yawn.. same old story, different town