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Sad ruling.....

TicklingDuo

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What a bunch of gutless wonders! I hope that they at least plan to reword things and get something through.

Ann


High Court Strikes Down Child Pornography Law
Updated 11:18 AM ET April 16, 2002

By James Vicini

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday struck down a federal pornography law that makes it a crime to have computer-generated pictures that look like real children engaged in sexual acts, ruling the law violates free-speech rights.

The high court's 6-3 ruling, written by Justice Anthony Kennedy, represented a stinging setback for the U.S. Justice Department in an important test of the Constitution's First Amendment free-speech protections in the computer age.

Kennedy wrote for the court majority that the law was too broad and violated the First Amendment by prohibiting speech despite serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.

He said themes of teen-age sexual activity and the sexual abuse of children have inspired countless literary works. He said William Shakespeare in ``Romeo and Juliet'' created the most famous pair of teen-age lovers, one of whom was just 13.

While Shakespeare may not have included sexually explicit scenes for the Elizabethan audience, modern movie directors may want to show that the couple consummated their relationship, he said.

Kennedy said a number of acclaimed movies, filmed without any child actors, explore themes that fall within the wide sweep of the law's prohibitions.


CITES MOVIES 'TRAFFIC,' 'AMERICAN BEAUTY'

He cited the award-wining movies, ``Traffic,'' which has the high school daughter of the nation's drug czar trading sex for drugs, and ``American Beauty,'' with scenes of sexual relations between a teen-age girl and her boyfriend and a teen-age girl and a middle-aged man.

The so-called ``virtual'' child pornography law, adopted by Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996, made it a crime to distribute or possess the pictures, even if the images did not involve real children.

The law targeted advanced computer-imaging technology that can be used to alter a child's innocent picture into a depiction of a child engaged in sex. Producing or selling such pornography carries up to 15 years in prison while possession can lead to as much as five years in prison.

The Child Pornography Prevention Act expanded a long-standing ban on child pornography to prohibit any image that ``appears to be'' or ``conveys the impression'' of someone younger than 18 engaged in sexually explicit acts.

The law was challenged by the Free Speech Coalition, a trade association of businesses that sell adult-oriented materials, for violating constitutional free-speech rights.

Others who sued were a publisher of a book on nudism, an artist who paints nudes and a photographer who specializes in erotic photography.

The Justice Department said the law sought to combat child pornography in the digital age.

But Kennedy rejected that argument, finding that virtual child pornography was not directly related to the sexual abuse of children.

He also rejected the argument that the law was necessary because pedophiles may use virtual child pornography to seduce children.

Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Justice Antonin Scalia dissented from the entire ruling. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor dissented from part of the ruling, but agreed with part of the judgement.

Rehnquist said the court should not construe a law as banning film portrayals of Shakespearean tragedies without some indication from the text of the law or the legislative history that such a result was intended by Congress.

He said the movies ``Traffic'' and ``American Beauty'' were made after the law was adopted. The law did not inhibit the movie producers from including images of youthful-looking adult actors engaging in sexually suggestive conduct, he said, in rejecting concerns by the court majority.
 
Not a bad ruling in my eyes. The law was written far far too broadly, and it was basically censoring the expression of an idea. A rupugnent idea yes, but an idea just the same. Telling people that they cannot express an idea is a bad precident. The concept that seeing idea 'A' leads to illegal action 'B' is not something that I want to see institutionalized in law.

Myriads
 
Short term vs long term

Myrs right....a law that paints with "too broad a brush" will prove ineffective in the long run, with lower courts overturning convictions and appeal material being everywhere. While disastrous in the short run, this will force better legislation...IF we keep the pressure on for it. Q
 
You guys are right about the thing having been a bit too broad. I guess they were correct in the ruling. My main frustration is in them constantly wimping out when it comes to protecting innocents. We need some guys in there with some testicular fortitude. They keep the laws that protect the criminals, but can't seem to do anything for the victims.

Ann
 
The pendulum swings...

..but, it tends to swing slowly. Be careful what you wish for, Ann. These things tend to go in cycles throughout history, and we're overdue for a swing towards ruthless punishment of criminals. The other extreme has problems of its own, and the "downfall" of the Church is merely another harbinger of a trend that will bring us away from our current leniency. As for the criminals, even the general pop in a jail kicks the crap out of child abusers...it's one of those universally hated things. :sowrong: Q
 
'Gutless Wonders'???

I believe that the remainder of Ann's post (after the first sentence) clearly explains why those who made the ruling were quite correct to strike down a silly 'thought police' law.

This law was another in a series of laws jammed through Congress by the conservative right in the name of protecting children. I have 2 young children, and I know that this agenda is much more about religious beliefs and self-righteousness than protecting kids.

The 'carefully crafted law' (to skirt the first amendment) is simply another attack on those who don't see a problem with porn in general (and no, that doesn't include 'reasonable' exceptions like kiddie porn or hidden video cameras).

It would be nice if the Conservative Right would pressure Congress to enact a law such as making it illegal for older kids to bully younger kids, and make the older kids parents legally responsible for this type of behavior. This could help a lot more kids than stamping out the non-existent epidemic of 'virtual kiddie porn'. I won't hold my breath.

But I seriously doubt that Conservatives would waste their time on something stupid like that when their are plenty of criminals smoking pot (the war on drugs is a mess), and drawing pictures of little kiddie cartoon characters having sex.
 
I'm with Ann on this one

Disagree with me if you must, but I think it was a bad ruling. Ah, you know what they say...."Lawyers don't practice justice, they practice law."

Pretty sad, in my opinion.
 
I'm torn on this one.

On the one hand, I wouldn't want a ticklevideo producer being jailed because they used a nude 18yr-old consensual 'lee who looked (in somebody's eyes) "too young". This ruling would protect them.

However.

The downside is that while the newly available source of "kiddie porn" (computer generated) isn't directly harmful to kids, it may serve to "reinforce a nasty kink" in pedophiles, who in turn may be more of a threat.

See, pedophilia is a "nasty kink", while the tickling fetish (among consensual adults) is a completely harmless one. But they may share a similarity, in that they feed off of "reinforcement".

In my case, I've been tied and tickled six times in the 2+ months since I discovered for certain I had this harmless kink. There's no way in HELL that would have happened if I'd not seen that there were others into it, pictures of it happening to others, ways for people into it to meet, talk, etc.

Follow? I'm NOT saying there's any moral equivelency. I am suggesting the possibility that additional "kink reinforcement" may become available to pedophiles, and THAT could (in the case of that "kink") be damned dangerous.
 
I see nothing wrong with censoring repugnant ideas, particularly this one. Jim's right about reinforcement. I hope we'll see the law passed again, with one change. There's a provision in the Constitution that allows Congress to forbid the Federal Courts to interfere with a law. It should be used in this case. (For that matter, I wouldn't mind seeing it used often. The time is long past for the elected branches of government to take back powers usurped by the courts.)

Strelnikov
 
just my opinion

I happen to agree with the ruling. While it may be difficult for non-lawyers like myself to fully understand the ramifications of such a ruling, I see it as a first-amendment protection. Child pornography is already illegal. If writers of fiction choose to depict child pornography or incest, we may not wish to read it, but such is their right and freedom in this country. Child pornography laws were intended to protect the victims of the crime. If the victim is fictional or 'virtual,' then there's no crime being perpetrated. I'm sure there would be no consensus here or elsewhere as to what ideas or images should be censored in order to prevent reinforcement of said ideas.
 
...on the lighter side of child pornography

Totally off topic, but I just happened to notice- Strelnikov has stepped up to the 1000 post club! Congratulations and thanx for all your contributions, Strel!
 
Well...this particular "idea", when carried out, ALWAYS does harm and is always non-consensual.

If any "ideas" deserve suppression, it's pedophilia.

You can't say that about too many ideas. Hell, look around BDSM boards, you'll hear about consensual "rape scenes", in which people get off on the idea of being "suddenly and utterly dominated by surprise" and there's "tops" perfectly willing to fulfill that.

Not for me thanks, but...I won't condemn that sort of thing for others.
 
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