Should any underage material be allowed on the Theater?

[Kalamos]

What's with those goddamn Precious Moments figurines, anyway?
...
They're like child pornography for women. Hugh Grant movies are fine, but for the love of god, not with children!

You don't find those on an adult site, with 18+ disclaimer and "horny babes" banners.

That's the whole point.
Context.

...

And Palcomix comics are loli hentai anyway, as Koopacooper admitted himself.

...

By the way, what do you care about loli chars!?
You draw full bodied women!
We couldn't mistaked them for kids even if you put "they're 14" signs all over your pics!

 

[Tickle4444]

Well, tickling on the internet is commonly referred to as a fetish, and has been for a while. I haven't seen a tickling partialist's forum. Perhaps one should be made, in order for others to find what they desire without being called a fetishist. Because apparently, it is the situation of seven bad tomatoes in one dozen, poisoning the whole bunch.

Yeah, that is exactly my dilemma. Not only am I in a minority of people who would like to tickle MJF's feet - or, at least, watch him or read about him getting his feet tickled - but I'm also in a minority of people who like pure tickling without all the sexual stuff. I'm sure there are other MJF fans who would like to tickle his feet - but I can't exactly ask that on an MJF board, because I would probably end up being flamed for it. Maybe I should start a community for people who like tickling in a non-sexual way - but I have too many other interests to keep up with, like writing Back to the Future fan fiction.

 

[Zeratul1]

And so, haven't you, yourself, just confessed to being a pedophile? And are the mods obligated to hand over your IP address so that you can be tracked down? You may not go to prison if they can't find anything, but your family and friends aren't exactly going to want to talk to you anymore.

1. I never referred to myself as a pedophile. I just said I like lolikon. I also stated that I think people who actually harm children deserve the worst. I've never done that and never will.

2. No, the mods are not obligated to hand anything over to anyone. Even if they did, the authorities wouldn't do anything about it aside from maybe a cursory background check on me that would reveal nothing, and thus not warrant a full-scale time-consuming investigation that would reveal a few weird pictures on my hard drive and a few weird sites in my internet history, but once again, nothing worth sending me to prison over.

3. Because of course you know all about me, my family, and my friends. It's not pretentious at all of you make such assumptions.

 

[Yet_One_More_Idiot]

Notice how the posts are all yours? Doesn't that say something to you?

Umm, Viper? In case you didn't realise, I was listing the threads connected to my comic only. I wasn't trying to create a comprehensive list of all threads containing lolicon pics. So no, that doesn't say anything to me.

Yes, I enjoy Lolicon; immensely, in fact. I'm not too bothered that you or others don't, that's perfectly natural, we're all different people after all. If the silent majority wish to have lolicon pics such as the ones in my comic banned from being posted on this site, I'm entirely OK with that. Just let me know, and I will request their removal myself, OK? 🙂

I won't be posting anymore of the comic pages here anyway, as they start venturing from the kiddie tickling into hentai proper anyway, just so's you know.

 

[Cybertickler]

1. I never referred to myself as a pedophile.

Yes, you did.

Right....


...wait for it...


...here.

I just said I like lolikon.

Looking at pictures or drawings of children and becoming aroused by it is a form of pedophelia. Period.

You're splitting hairs if you say that thinking it and doing it are unrelated to each other. You're still sick, as far as I'm concerned.

It's like saying, "But I only barely killed him...it's not like I decapitated him or anything!" IT'S STILL MURDER.

I won't be posting anymore of the comic pages here anyway, as they start venturing from the kiddie tickling into hentai proper anyway, just so's you know.

No matter where you post them, they are still disgusting, and only other pedophiles will have anything positive to say about them (unless they look past the sickness and directly comment on the artist's skill, of which you're very talented).

Please, for the sake of all that is good and innocent in this world, don't draw children having sex with each other.

 

[nessonite1]

I would like to point out that there have been countless stories, pictures, and discussions on this site about non-consentual things that, in the real world, would equal assault, kidnapping, etc. I dont see anyone up in arms demanding that these things be removed.
I will refer back to the beginning of this thread where HDS said

I am of the opinion that if something is not illegal, prohibiting it is none of our business. If someone likes something and you do not, don't view it is my personal belief. I see the banning of anything that is not directly harmful to a person

If anyone is going to argue that we should be banning drawn material that involves mostly legal acts done by pretend minors then you'd have to say we can't allow anything depicting entirely illegal acts performed by pretend adults.

d'you follow?

I dont care who jacks off to what, frankly. I hate f/f video with naked blonde chicks with big fake boobs bouncing around but I'm not banning it cause I dont like it.
I think stories involving kidnapping and assault are morally reprehensible but I'm not going to shove my ethics down someone's throat over it and tell them they can't wank to it if they want to.
I don't want the job of being the Thought Police. Just because something is disliked by a group of people doesn't mean the forum is going to mold itself to better suit them. If it were we would have already banned m/m videos, porn, and a number of members. Don't like it? Don't click on it. If it's legal out there, chances are it's legal here and I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[chicag0]

ped·o·phil·i·a (pěd'ə-fĭl'ē-ə, pē'də-) Pronunciation Key
n. The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.


~ according to Dictionary.com

 

[Cybertickler]

Alright, Ness, then we'll just settle with knowing that anyone who enjoys looking at, drawing, or reading about children, real or fake, and gets aroused by it, is a pedophile.

Cut and dry, yes?

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Looking at pictures or drawings of children and becoming aroused by it is a form of pedophelia. Period.


You're splitting hairs if you say that thinking it and doing it are unrelated to each other. You're still sick, as far as I'm concerned.

As far as I am aware, being a pedophile is not illegal. It is the acting out of those desires that is illegal. I suppose I'll play devils advocate here, but so long as a pedophile (And I'll not say whether Zeratul is one or not) does not act on their desires in a way that harms a real child (By physical relations with a child or the procuring of real child pornography, which supports the harm of a child) I see no problem. People are free to think whatever they want. If they cause no harm to anyone else, I see no ground for any argument against them to stand. Morals are best something kept to guiding one's own life, not being forced upon another. As soon as one group does this, others follow. As others follow, all who are "different" fall. Only the homogeneous muck remains.

It's like saying, "But I only barely killed him...it's not like I decapitated him or anything!" IT'S STILL MURDER.

Murder causes harm to someone. Nothing under discussion does. You seem to think he harms himself by his very thoughts. Who are you to say that? God? Because only God or some equivalent, if he/she exists, could truly answer that. Murder causes harm and as such is entirely incomparable to the present situation.

No matter where you post them, they are still disgusting, and only other pedophiles will have anything positive to say about them (unless they look past the sickness and directly comment on the artist's skill, of which you're very talented).

Again you assume that, because you find the works in question disgusting, all "normal" people do. Who are you to say that? Every person is different; not all share your views. One needs not be a pedophile to appreciate such as we discuss just as one not need be a ticklephile to appreciate some of the finer examples of tickling art this community has produced; likewise, one needs not be an automotive aficionado to appreciate a finely crafted vehicle..

ped·o·phil·i·a (pěd'ə-fĭl'ē-ə, pē'də-) Pronunciation Key
n. The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.


~ according to Dictionary.com

And what is illegal about pedophilia is not the fantasy, but the act. Fantasy (So long as said fantasy does not include the collection of child pornography featuring real children, as that supports the pornographer who is harming the child) is not illegal anywhere as far as I am aware. What goes on in someone else's head should be none of your or anyone else's business. I find it sad, in a way. You don't like something that is perfectly legal and, for the umpteenth time, harms no one but instead of simply letting the other person enjoy what they like, you seek to persecute them. I find this to be amazingly hypocritical coming from tickle fetishists. Many who do not share the fetish would say much the same things you are saying about us. Just because one person does not like something does not mean they or anyone else has the right to restrict it (Provided no harm is caused by the something. But I repeat myself yet again.).

I seem to be repeating and repeating. Perhaps it is time to shut up and leave, HDS.

 

[Yet_One_More_Idiot]

No matter where you post them, they are still disgusting, and only other pedophiles will have anything positive to say about them (unless they look past the sickness and directly comment on the artist's skill, of which you're very talented).

Please, for the sake of all that is good and innocent in this world, don't draw children having sex with each other.

I would be honoured if I could draw this well. Actually, the artist behind the entire Palcomix site draws them, I merely commission them. So yeah, they're still pretty much my work, I came up with the ideas....but my own artistic skills don't go much beyond stick figures. 😛

As to the paedophile comments, I go by the original meaning of the word as translated from Greek. "Child-lover". I would NEVER harm a child, that's why I keep my fantasies in cartoon-land thank you very much.

As opposed to all the sick bastards that are out there abusing innocent little kids and being labelled as "paedophiles"; they clearly DON'T love children at all if they're going about harming them like that, do they?

It's like adult-only tickling; some people here have fantasies about being tied and tickle-tortured into oblivion. They wouldn't go through with them in real life, 'cos it's a) dangerous and b) illegal. But they still fantasise them, so does that make them sick freaks too?

I love children, I never want to see any child come to harm; that's why I would much rather push any darker fantasies about them that I may have into the realms of non-real cartoons, where they do no physical harm to anyone. That's my $0.02.

*Climbs down off soapbox*

 

[Journia]

Here here.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

It's like adult-only tickling; some people here have fantasies about being tied and tickle-tortured into oblivion. They wouldn't go through with them in real life, 'cos it's a) dangerous and b) illegal. But they still fantasise them, so does that make them sick freaks too?

Which reminds me ... as adults, should we all not be free to view what we please? We are supposed to be of age and mind sound enough where we can view such a thing as being discussed here without degenerating into child predators. From what I read, it seems that a great many fear the depictions in question because they seem to think it will "corrupt" somehow. As adults, should we not be above that? I keep see the "adult community" moniker thrown out. As an adult community, should not the consenting adults within it be free to choose what thwy wish to create and view without penalty provided said media is not harmful to someone? Or are we all children ourselves, unable to choose our own likes without some caretaker dictating what is good and what is not?

 

[Kalamos]

Wait a second all.
And please, somebody take notice of what I am saying.

We started from: should we rule toon chars out, like they do over TMF - and now we're debating on semi-murder and throat morality.

Let us stop everybody, already.

...

We are arguing whether we can trust the fleeting nature of law, and keep kid toon chars, or if we should plan *ahead*, and avoid future problems altogether.

This is the whole prob.
Not semantics.

Laws are bound to change. What are we to do?

 

[Journia]

Wait a second all.
And please, somebody take notice of what I am saying.

We started from: should we rule toon chars out, like they do over TMF - and now we're debating on semi-murder and throat morality.

Let us stop everybody, already.

...

We are arguing whether we can trust the fleeting nature of law, and keep kid toon chars, or if we should plan *ahead*, and avoid future problems altogether.

This is the whole prob.
Not semantics.

Laws are bound to change. What are we to do?

We just have to wait and see I suppose.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Wait a second all.
And please, somebody take notice of what I am saying.

We started from: should we rule toon chars out, like they do over TMF - and now we're debating on semi-murder and throat morality.

Let us stop everybody, already.

...

We are arguing whether we can trust the fleeting nature of law, and keep kid toon chars, or if we should plan *ahead*, and avoid future problems altogether.

This is the whole prob.
Not semantics.

Laws are bound to change. What are we to do?

Very well. I am of the opinion that we should not be ahead of the law. If something is not illegal, we have no business forbidding it, as I stated earlier. If and when this (Or anything else) becomes illegal, it is gone. One does not argue with the law. Leave it to the people to decide what they wish to view. If they don't like something, they don't view or create it. We don't dictate such.

And, with that, I probably need to leave this thread behind. I am wasting people's time repeating myself ad nauseum.

 

[Kalamos]

Very well. I am of the opinion that we should not be ahead of the law.
...
If and when this (Or anything else) becomes illegal, it is gone.

Perfectly clear. Perfectly sensible.

One question.
What if law is being acted upon retroactively?
Kid chars were illegal a couple years ago.
Do we risk anything?

 

[Journia]

they were against the law a couple of years ago?

 

[blackmagicjack1]

There are around 40.000 unique accounts, and probably 10.000-20.000 recurring users.
Only 57 voted as I am typing.
And 34 showed some interest in kid toons.

34 vs 40.000.
This is what I call silent majority vs vocal minority.
Only ppl interested in kid toons are going to vote, so the whole poll is slanted.

Sure, we might claim that more should cast a vote - but seriously, users are *LAZY*.
It takes an active interest to reply.

😉

Thought I would finally comment on this post, because I wouldn't appear to be LAZY 😀

As K suggests I haven't replied (or voted) because the rules of the forum pretty much back my desires. It is illegal to show Adult matertial to Minors, and it is illegal to show Minors in sexual situations. So no members who are minors and no illegal material. I'm not interested in seeing Minors tickled or in sexual situations.

Now then, the fact others may want to is there choice, and as with all choices there are consequences. So if you can live with the consequences, so be it. I also believe in a vote with your feet mentality, if you don't like something don't frequent where it is shown. Because someone is into something you find morally disagreeable does not give anyone the right to label them as undesirables. As long as they are not forceably harming others, they have a right to pursue happiness in there own ways.

Thought policing is occurring in this thread also, and I find that truly disturbing. Thought we had gotten pass the whole you are damned if you even think of sin process. I doubt any of us have ever had a thought that others would find morally or ethically unacceptable. That doesn't make anyone evil. Also fantasies are where we play out those thoughts and desires. It is kind of like fantasy being the R&D for actual actions. And what we do is so much more important than what we think.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Perfectly clear. Perfectly sensible.

One question.
What if law is being acted upon retroactively?
Kid chars were illegal a couple years ago.
Do we risk anything?

The Congress of the United States is prohibited from passing so-called ex post facto, or after the fact, laws as far as I am aware. Such a law could be passed but would not stand up to a court appeal (And one can always count on the ever-ready ACLU (Note some sarcasm) to appeal the heck out of it).

Now, let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Constitution was amended to allow ex post facto legislation. If so, I would do what I did in the past when it was discovered that mainstream material featuring real children (Which was tolerated for a time) was present in large quantities. I went through the two clips sections and viewed every single thread. It took several days, but all trace of the offending media was gone. If the Congress was allowed to and did pass a retroactive law prohibiting what we discuss, I would simply go through and remove all traces of it. However, while it is possible, I cannot see the prohibition against retro-activity being removed, not now and not anytime soon.

 

[blackmagicjack1]

This just occurred to me, and feel free to remove it if it clutters this thread, but does TT have a Code of Ethics or something similar to a Constitution? Such a document might prove useful for further discussions along these lines.

 

[Kalamos]

This just occurred to me, and feel free to remove it if it clutters this thread, but does TT have a Code of Ethics or something similar to a Constitution?

While a Code of Ethics would help - and I even suggested creating one, taking precedence over and beyond laws - it would reek of Thought Police and censorship, however you put it.

I want to be clear: they managed to scare me into thinking they could shut this site at a whim.
That is why I'm worried about any questionable contents over forums I take active part in.

I'm not calling anybody names.
But I don't want to wake up one day, and find some 404 message instead of "Welcome Back Kalamos".
What can we do about that?
What can they do about it?

 

[His Divine Shadow]

I'm not calling anybody names.
But I don't want to wake up one day, and find some 404 message instead of "Welcome Back Kalamos".
What can we do about that?
What can they do about it?

I completely understand. Unfortunately, it is not just this issue that could lead to us being shut down. All it would take is a single producer, angry that someone (Ignoring the rules) posted copy written material from their company, to shut us down. In order to remain online with certainty, we would have to forbid everything but art, and then only art that was preapproved before being posted by some vetting committee that would ensure that nothing in it could violate someone's sensibilities.

I have said this before, and I again apologize for repeating myself again, but tickling could be forbidden someday. States and countries have banned such activities as bondage between consenting adults. Tickling is, as I have said, not that far removed. It sounds crazy, but I'm sure that's what the bondage practitioners would have said if confronted by the prediction that their likes would someday be forbidden.

The point that removing the material in question would make us safer (note the emphasis) is one I accept. It is indisputable that removing a contentious media would remove a liability. I simply fear that removing one will lead to another. How long after this do we ban any sort of male tickling male tickling material? You laugh, perhaps, but the current climate is not friendly towards anything homosexual or seeming to be so (I in no way say or infer that such material is homosexual in nature). I do not want to start down the road of banning anything that could potentially endanger us. Doing so would be casting aside people who share our mutual tickling interest, even if they do not share our specific types of tickling interest.

 

[Kalamos]

I simply fear that removing one will lead to another.

I see what you mean, but by "sectorialising" contents, they wouldn't be able to close sites en masse.

One site might cater to M/M, one to F/M, others to F/F, M/F, toons, vids, stories and so on.
By distributing "tastes" and genres across different forums, we would stop the domino effect, in the unfortunate event of a stricter law.

 

[blackmagicjack1]

While a Code of Ethics would help - and I even suggested creating one, taking precedence over and beyond laws - it would reek of Thought Police and censorship, however you put it.

I want to be clear: they managed to scare me into thinking they could shut this site at a whim.
That is why I'm worried about any questionable contents over forums I take active part in.

I'm not calling anybody names.
But I don't want to wake up one day, and find some 404 message instead of "Welcome Back Kalamos".
What can we do about that?
What can they do about it?

Well an ethics code does not necessarily have to be thought police, it just sets up expectations. One of the things that could be put into the Code could be a clause supporting open mindedness and free speech. Along with the necessity of following the law. It is a question of priorities.

As for keeping the site open, well following the law and erring towards the letter of the law would obviously be the first things. But I'll be honest with you K, if someone gets a wild hair up there arse, they probably can find something to shut any site down. There are a lot laws on the books, and it would be a lot to ask the staff to stay on top of them. Also what price do you and everyone else want to pay to remain active.

Sorry you are asking for practical answers, not sermonizing. So my thoughts are follow the law, keep up on the law, and disallow borderline material. Not fun, not very free-choice, but it will probably keep TT more secure.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

@K-man: Quite true. I would, however, find that sad. We are a community, brought together through mutual interest. Any community is bound to have outliers and differing tastes. Expelling those, in this one's opinion, leads to a stale existence with no vibrancy or life. To use the example of the United States, much of the energy, passion (Sometimes (Heck, often) misguided), and drive to succeed this country has possessed over the last century has been due to it being the proverbial "melting pot," taking in all manner of people with a common dream, the American Dream (I sound sickeningly patriotic right now). I personally feel that if the community were to fracture, we would lose something great, something important. A community is not great for its similarities; it is great for its differences and how members of it accept and embrace them.

I could, of course, be completely wrong. Perhaps we would be happier as separate entities. However, as one who enjoys nearly every aspect of the tickling scene, I cannot see that possibility with clarity. Perhaps that blinds me to it.