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star wars question

coolman

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i usually pride myself with a more or less sound knowledge of starwars, but now i'm stuck. My question is

Are stormtroopers clones?

This question mainly arises from the fact that stuff is mentioned in a series of books by Timothy Zahn which implies they are not cloned, and i saw on another thread that they are.

Help! 😕
 
Well, if the troopers in Episode 2 become the stormtroopers of Star Wars ("Episode 4"... man, it was so simpler in the old days - Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi!)then, yes, they are clones

But I know a few books out there mention that they are not clones. In Splinter of the Mind's Eye, they are not. Even in the novel Star Wars, by Lucas himself, their clone-ishness isn't brought up.
 
There are quite a few books out there that should'nt be considered as being entirely cononiacal, as far as their reliability for information goes. But to the best of my knowledge, the Storm Troopers who form the bulk of the Empire's army are not clones. Some of them may be, but that would be mainly coincidence. I guess they are just your average guys who enjoy beating people up and looting and decided to enlist. (A bit like Millwall and Chelsea Football Club supporters! 😀 )

However, the Empire would probably have made some specific units out of clones, purely because they were doomed to die in some diversionary action and normal troops could'nt be used reliably.

Asleep yet?😀
 
As near as I can figure, at some point between Episodes III and IV, the Empire bans the use of cloning and genetic engineering in general. (This is why the Lurrians, with their expertise at bioengineering, are captured and sold as black-market slaves in Han Solo's Revenge by Brian Daley, since IIRC their world had been quarrantined.)

Timothy Zahn says in his Heir to the Empire trilogy that the Clone Wars-era clones proved to be unstable (Luke theorizes that they were driven insane by the psychic feedback of so many identical presences in the Force) so their use was discontinued. Further, the reactions of Luke & Han upon discovering a squad of cloned Stormtroopers indicate that they have never encountered this situation before.

A majority of the other novels & comics portray Stormtroopers as non-clones as well whenever the issue of who's wearing the white armor comes up. They do not resemble Jango Fett, nor are they lobotomized drones incapable of free thinking. Indeed, they often display remarkable individuality. In Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina, Stormtrooper Davin Felth decides that slaughtering a Sandcrawler full of innocent Jawas and murdering Owen & Beru Lars simply for being in the way of his unit's search for the droids containing the Death Star plans isn't what he joined the Imperial Army to do, so he kills his CO and defects to the Rebellion. In Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy Trilogy, Kyp Durron's brother Zeph was conscripted into the ranks of the Stormtroopers as an adolescent and rigidly indoctrinated at a training facility on Carida, but he retained memories of his former life. In Barbara Hambly's Children of the Jedi, Trooper Triv Pothman grows to relish his peaceful rustic lifestyle when he is stranded for decades on a remote world, and he dreads the day the Empire comes to reclaim him. Garth Ennis wrote a short tale for a recent isue of Dark Horse Comics' Star Wars Tales of a somewhat cowardly man from a destitute Outer Rim planet who enlists in the Empire because it's easier to stand behind a tyrant than stand against him. The Crimson Empire mini-series from Dark Horse gave us two Imperial Royal Guardsmen, selected from the most elite Stormtroopers, with very individual goals. Carnor Jax sabotaged the Emperor's cloning facility in a plot to seize the Imperial Throne for himself, while Kir Kanos remains loyal to the ideals of honor and duty that were instilled in him, so he wages a one-man war against a corrupt Empire which has abandoned them. The same creative team gave us an issue of the old Marvel Star Wars comic featuring a man born on Alderaan, who became a Stromtrooper out of revenge, because he blamed Princess Leia for his homeworld's destruction. He eventually sees the truth and sacrifices himself to save her. Most interesting of all, though I have not played the game myself, Rebel agent Kyle Katarn from Lucasarts Dark Forces apparently is not only an ex-Stormtrooper but also the son of a Jedi Knight.

The Emperor was known to have access to cloning facilities after Episode III, but from all accounts he only used them for creating duplicates of himself, into which he would transfer his consciousness when his previous body wore out. It was this method that allowed him to survive his death in Return of the Jedi, but the younger, stronger cloned bodies were unstable and insane due to the meddling of Carnor Jax. The cloning cylinders were used for some special unique projects, such as the creation of Joruus C'Baoth and and a copy of Darth Maul (which was killed by Darth Vader), but it would seem that they were never used to create troops on a scale approaching anything seen in Episode II until Grand Admiral Thrawn found and reactivated the Mount Tantiss facility on Wayland. It is as yet unkown how many of these clones surved Thrawn's campaign and remained part of the Imperial Forces menacing the New Republic, but I would imagine the vast majority of them have been killed by the time of the New Jedi Order.

In conclusion, consultation of my Holocron Archives says that the Stormtroopers of Episodes IV, V, & VI are not clones, but those from the Expanded Universe fiction between 5 and 20 years after Ep. VI stand a decreasing chance of being clones.
 
Here's my Star Wars question...

In the 1st film, there was Amidala, and her handmaiden Padme. Now, in the new film, the woman's name is Padme Amidala. The two individual people became one. Wa's up with that?
 
At that time, Padme's first name was not common knowledge, although most knew of a "Queen Amidala" of Naboo. The practice was to utilize decoys for the queen's safety. If you notice in the beggining of Episode I, when Qui-Gon is trying to convince the queen to come with him to Coruscant, she says that "either choice presents great danger...to us all." One of the handmaidens replies "we are brave, your highness." Look closely...that's Natalie Portman. In a non-conspicous way, the decoy "queen" was giving the real queen an opportunity to make the actual decision. Even some of our own royals have used this deception throughout history.

She was referred to as "Padme", as no one really knew her first name at that point, and for the audience to get a jist of what was going on. Not that it really fooled anyone...you knew that it was the queen that tagged along with the party on Tatooine, at least I did.😎
 
Dave2112 said:
At that time, Padme's first name was not common knowledge, although most knew of a "Queen Amidala" of Naboo. The practice was to utilize decoys for the queen's safety. If you notice in the beggining of Episode I, when Qui-Gon is trying to convince the queen to come with him to Coruscant, she says that "either choice presents great danger...to us all." One of the handmaidens replies "we are brave, your highness." Look closely...that's Natalie Portman. In a non-conspicous way, the decoy "queen" was giving the real queen an opportunity to make the actual decision. Even some of our own royals have used this deception throughout history.

She was referred to as "Padme", as no one really knew her first name at that point, and for the audience to get a jist of what was going on. Not that it really fooled anyone...you knew that it was the queen that tagged along with the party on Tatooine, at least I did.😎

This is definatley something that confused the shit out of me too Dave. I never understood who was supposed to be who and when. Judging by what you've just said the real queen spends 9/10ths of the movie dressed as a handmaiden. Any information from you would be beneficial to my sanity at this point.
 
So the decoy queen was called Amidala, but was actually named Padme......? And Natalie Portman's character (queen-disguised-as handmaid) was the real Amidala, who's 1st name is Padme. So Natlie the queen-disguised-as-handmaid is Padme Amidala. So what was the name of the decoy queen, ultimetely? There are 2 Padmes, but only one has the last name Amidala?

Dang, I hope more clones aren't involved with this...... it's gettting confusing.
 
It's not as complicated as it sounds. Natalie Portman's character is named Padme` Naberrie. She was elected to the throne and took the name Queen Amidala as a traditional "Name of State". (It is theorized that the Naboo elect their royalty much in the same way that we select a Pope or Dalai Lama here on Earth.) Whenever you see Natalie on screen, she's the real Queen. Whenever there's a chance of the Queen being a target, she trades places with one of her handmaiden/decoy/bodyguards, five of whom were named at the time of Phantom Menace: Eirtae`, Rabe`, Sabe`, Sache`, and Yane`. Padme` does not replace any existing handmaiden named Padme`, she simply uses her own civillian identity while one of the other five is adressed as Queen Amidala to further the ruse.

In Attack of the Clones, she goes by the name Padme` Amidala as a Senator, though her full proper name would be Padme` Naberrie Amidala. Naberrie is then like a "maiden name" which she no longer uses officially following her coronation. She still maintains at least two handmaidens as decoys and bodyguards at this time: Corde`, who is killed in the opening assassination attempt, and Dorme` who stays on Coruscant to draw fire while Padme` goes to lie low on Naboo.
 
I was sure Corde and Dorme were in Episode I.....???

Nebarrie? Now what scene was this in? Please don't tell me I have to go back to the books - I always neglect to carry them into the theater with me. Sigh.

Sigh?

Si!

I know Portman is the real queen. And that character is named Padme Amidala. What I'm not getting is this: There were indeed two distinct people in the 1st film; a Queen Amidala, AND a handmaid named Padme:

"I am Queen Amidala. This is my decoy, Padme."

The queen says this in Episode one and this quote is played on my cool Star Wars phone when you push a special button! She never says:

"I am Padme Amidala. This is my decoy Sabe, but who goes by my civilian name Padme, but I am really Padme- she just can't use HER civilian name Sabe, becuase if she did, then she couldn't be Padme, who is really me, so Sabe has to go by the name Padme while she is my decoy. Get it?"
 
Oddjob0226 said:

"I am Padme Amidala. This is my decoy Sabe, but who goes by my civilian name Padme, but I am really Padme- she just can't use HER civilian name Sabe, becuase if she did, then she couldn't be Padme, who is really me, so Sabe has to go by the name Padme while she is my decoy. Get it?"


No, I dont. 😕 😕 😕 😕 😕 😕
 
>>"Get it?"<<

>>No, I dont<<

Exactly my point! I don't either.....
 
Oddjob0226 said:
>>"Get it?"<<

>>No, I dont<<

Exactly my point! I don't either.....


That's both of us knackered then isn't it?😀
 
>>That's both of us knackered then isn't it?<<

You got that right. I think maybe someone may have been eaten in a canibalistic Naboo ritual and her identity was abosrbed, making two people into one.

But that's just a guess.
 
It isn't that difficult, guys.

There is not nor was there ever a handmaiden named Padme separate from Padme Amidala. At no point does the genuine Queen address any of her handmaidens as Padme. If you hear the Queen do so, then it categorically is not the real Queen. If you thought you saw and heard Natalie Portman say the line, then guess what: The trick works and you were fooled.

The handmaidens are generally not introduced, because their purpose is to be easily confused for one another and for the Queen. For the deception to work, the handmaidens must be seen as interchangable and inconsequential servants, and identifying them by name while on duty completely undermines that goal. The President isn't in the habit of advertising which Secret Service Agents are with him at any given time, and neither is the Queen. The handmaidens are never referred to by name (except in the RPG source material), so nobody notices anything unusual about there suddenly being one named Padme, since they only saw a non-descript group of uniformed servants before Padme goes out on her own. When the real Queen is on the throne, she simply doesn't acknowledge them as being anything more than her nameless serving retinue, since visitors are expected to pay attention to her and not the "hired help."

Padme and Amidala are not nor have they ever been two seperate people. All appearances to the contrary are an intentional ruse, and one that sems to have been greatly successful around here. I can't make it any clearer than that.
 
Finally I get it! Natalie was Padme Amidalla, while the decoy queen was like, Dorme, or one of the others, and just used the name "Amidala".

But wouldn't using the Queen's real name, Padme, still be a little dangerous, even though she's in disguse? Wouldn't that be like James Bond being dressed like a mechnic & acting like a mechanic but someone addresses him as "James" within an enemy's earshot? It's not the same as "Mr. Bond", but it's still a little close for comfort.....
 
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