Star Wars question

[morefeatherz]

I've seen several posts regarding Star Wars so I thought I would ask this..

If Anakin was the chosen one, why did Darth Vader tell Luke near the end of Empire Strikes Back that "You can destroy the Emperor. He has forseen this. It is your destiny."? Would that not make Luke the 'chosen one'?? Just curious.

Also I realize it was actually Anakin that killed the emperor and not Luke. But if it wasn't for Luke taking the path he did, none of that would have ever happened. Perhaps this was the destiny that the emporer refered?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Emperor Palpatine sensed something change in Vader, something he didn't like. When he was united with his son for the first time something changed in him, and now instead of wanting to destroy or convert him, he now has paternal instincts.

Palpatine knows Luke is going to be powerful, possibly to the extent that he himself would be a casualty at the hand of a Skywalker. For all that Palpatine could forsee, he did not see everything.

Vader wants Luke to join him so together they can take out Palpatine, Vader will be the new Emperor and Luke his apprentice. Anakin always had a different ideal of how this empire should be run. While a Sith, he was no where near as tyrannical as Palpatine. Palpatine is chaotic evil, whereas Vader is more like lawful evil, by comparison.

Vader told Luke he could kill the Emperor because Vader wants Luke to believe he can because Vader is no longer physically able to do it himself because of his handicaps and limitations. By suggesting to Luke that together they can end this, it was his hope Luke would join his father on this new crusade.

Palpatine sensed a treacherous Vader, but he thought Luke would be manipulitable enough to convert like Anakin was. Palpatine doesn't trust Vader anymore since he met his son.

Aside from that, its just the Sith way of life to expect betrayal from your own apprentice at some point. Sith are power mongers. Unless they are completely broken like Darth Maul and reprogrammed mentally they will have their own agenda eventually when they've learned all they can from their master. Palpatine did the same to his own master, we now know.

Anakin is the chosen one to bring balance to the Force in this instance, by killing Palpatine. Buts he's just as much the chosen one because of the balance he would also bring through his children, and then balance they would bring to a new generation, and so on.

Palpatine was so caught up in his rage of killing Luke that he couldn't sense the man standing right next to him was no longer his servant, has reclaimed his identity and would seconds later prove it.

He suspected Vader, but perhaps figured that if forced to kill his son, it would prove his loyalty because then the bond the two share would no longer have a hold on Vader and his connection with the Dark Side would be perminently cemented and the hidden remnants of Anakin Skywalker would die and cease to be.

 

[Goodieluver]

I've seen several posts regarding Star Wars so I thought I would ask this..

If Anakin was the chosen one, why did Darth Vader tell Luke near the end of Empire Strikes Back that "You can destroy the Emperor. He has forseen this. It is your destiny."? Would that not make Luke the 'chosen one'?? Just curious.

Also I realize it was actually Anakin that killed the emperor and not Luke. But if it wasn't for Luke taking the path he did, none of that would have ever happened. Perhaps this was the destiny that the emporer refered?

Anakin was the promised one, he destroyed the sith and did bring balance to the force, just it also resulted in the death of nearly all the jedi

 

[Dave2112]

Celtic is pretty much dead-on in his assesment. Well done, Student of the Archives....

However, I'd disagree on your comparison to D&D "alignment" regarding Palpatine. He was far from Chaotic, as bringing the galaxy to its knees without them even knowing it took incredible planning, foresight and subterfuge on a collossal scale. I'm not sure if traditional "alignment" parameters would be applicable here. It could be argued that the "chaotic" refers to his view of law and rules and such, but you must remember that he MADE the rules. His whole thing was bringing order to the galaxy, even if it was an order that benefitted the few.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thank you, Master Jedi. 😀

When I said chaotic however, I meant his mindset primarily and his connection and devotion to the Sith way. Its absolute to the point of being chaotic or the farthest from neutral it could be. Obviously his laws and how he would govern as an emperor had to be sane, legitimate and orderly.

Actually, Palpatine did good by the galaxy in a sense. He brought stability (though harsh) where there was none and the corruption was weeded out of the empire. There was less bickering and more doing under his leadership. The only problem was that his control and rule was so absolute that when he had apparently parished the empire broke down into factions to try and gain their own power and dominance.

Aside from that, the 'evil' aspect of the empire doesn't apply to it's lower levels. A stormtrooper is just waiting for his next set of orders. I think alot of people see the empire as evil. Not even the highest ranking officers are necessarily evil, its really just several people, and only them in the spiritual sense of the word.

Although symbolically its evil, it seemed more stable than the Old Republic. If he hadn't been so oppressive and used terror tactics (ie- the mere presense of the Death Star) perhaps fewer systems would have revolted later on and he may have been able to defeat the Rebel Alliance by attrition. The Empire has it's own diplomats and peace negotiaters afterall. There were plenty of systems that were loyal to the empire and didn't need to be threatened or cajoled. If he could have kept that going perhaps he could have put down the uprisings without violence, and that would have saved him alot of face.

But then again, its not the Alliance was going to let up...

 

[Goodieluver]

I dont know about no corruption, there still were the Hutts and other crime syndicates in the empire. Also alot of smugglers who constantly went against the empire blockcades at numerous points.

Also, this did lead to an increase in violence and death due to the rebel factions and the military action taken against them(hell, Alderran got destroyed due to the rebels)

If anything, this was "order" that was similar to the wild west order, there was corruption and chaos but in doses and acceptable terms

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

But all of that came from outside interference. The Hutts, while agreeable with the empire in certain ways still worked outside of it's jurisdiction as did alot of the bounty hunters. Besides, the Hutts were already around during the Old Republic. Its just organized crime.

These are outside problems and revenues created in the wake and aftermath of the empire. It was other people taking advantage of the posture of the galaxy after what Palpatine had done. It was ripe for business, both legitimate and seedy.

Its all cause and effect.

 

[Dave2112]

The Hutts controlled thier society, space and "business" ventures the same way during Imperial rule that they did during the Republic years. Remember that Hutt space was a relatively large swath of the galaxy (larger than the Hapes Consortium, the Tion Cluster or other independant areas) and it was not officially under Imperial rule. Hutt space was not part of the Empire, but had to work closely with it and of course, change a few of the way they did business. Actually, smuggling enterprises increased during Imperial rule, as did the activity of the Bounty Hunters' Guild.

That's not to say that Palpatine didn't have designs on the Hutts, he just couldn't take out all of his enemies at the same time. That's what the Death Star would have been used for, had the Alliance not blown it and it's twin away. The Empire didn't have control over every single square inch of space.

As far as Palpatine bringing order to the galaxy, that was what the rich, influential systems believed, in fact....most of the galaxy either believed that or were told that. However, he brought and end to a galaxy-ripping war that he himself created. I know that, you know that, but most of the galaxy was in the dark about Palpatine's intentions.

It's funny what people will give up for security. Even after 20 years of post-Imperial struggle and a few years of relative peace, the Yuuzhan Vong invasion brought out the worst in people. Many were even publicly stating that Palpatine's Empire would have stopped the Vong at the borders of the galaxy...and even some of these were societies that were brutalized under his rule.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

It really makes you wonder what true evil is in Star Wars when the Yuuzhan Vong appear. Their evil is unadulterated. At least Palpatine, as a human being, has some morals and standards. He committed genocide against the most undeserving people (the Jedi), but we know they were just another opponent to eliminate (and a personal one at that) so that he could create this Empire and keep it. He also allowed planets to be destroyed. I know its not right, but compared to the Yuuzhan Vong, overturning a democracy doesn't seem nearly as heinous as a neverending onslaught.

Its one of those "I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy" sort of situations.

What happens anyway, or is the story still going on? I'd imagine they have to end Star Wars at some point. I'm guessing the Republic manages to defeat the enemy and the Jedi are instrumental. I already know about Leia and Han and their children and what happens with them, and Luke and Mara and their child, but what happens in the end?

 

[Dave2112]

See...that's what was great about The New Jedi Order. You assumed that "the Republic beats the enemy..." etc, etc. That was exactly the kind of predictability that ran rampant in the earlier novels and that NJO wanted to break free of. Hence the deaths of Chewbacca and Anakin Solo.

Not only does the Republic not exactly defeat the Vong, it ceases to exist. The current ruling government is now the Galactic Alliance of Free Systems...a combination of what survived from the New Republic, Imperial Remnant, The Hapans and a few other local territories. The Hutts, of course, still remain autonomous, having once again managed to step in shit and come out smelling like a rose. The provisional capital is currently Mon Calamari, with Coruscant having been remade into Yuuzhan-'tar.

You'll have to read the last books to find out how it all wrapped up....very intriguing. The initial NJO story arc, the Vong Invasion, is done, but new NJO books are scheduled to start up sometime this summer.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yeah,I had heard about that. Sort of a pan-galactic alliance that sees enemies join together to fight the menace.

Also, does George himself actually approve any of these ideas? I know they are not official canon persay, but have you ever seen or read about his opinion of Star Wars after the OT in regards to where it was going to end or what direction he wanted it to take? Or is it that he has somewhat relinquished control of the Star Wars licence to these authors and he just generally guides them but they are otherwise allowed to write whatever they want in the continuity aspect of what Star Wars becomes after the official series?

Its hard to tell what his personal ideas and wishes are versus what others are doing with the series.