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Ten Reasons Why Many Gulf War Veterans Oppose Re-Invading Iraq

Biggles of 266

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I found this on the internet and thought it was worth posting here. It's very interesting, but since I don't know much about the inner workings of the US Army, I have no idea how true some of the information is.




Published on Friday, September 13, 2002 by CommonDreams.org
Ten Reasons Why Many Gulf War Veterans Oppose Re-Invading Iraq
by an anonymous Gulf war veteran

With all the war fever about re-invading Iraq, the press and politicians are ignoring the opinion of the veterans of our last war in the Gulf. But we veterans were there, and we have unique and critical first-hand knowledge of the course and consequences of warfare in Iraq. Our opinions should be solicited and heard before troops deploy for battle, not after they have returned wounded, ill or in body bags.

Another invasion of Iraq in 2002 will be very different from the invasion of 1991. The war's mission has changed in the intervening years, from removing Iraq from Kuwait to removing the entire Iraqi government and military establishment from power. Because the goal of the U.S. military has changed, the Iraqi army may retreat to the cities, where they may face better odds than in the desert.

During the open desert tank battles of '91, U.S. tanks out-classed and out-fought obsolete Iraqi tanks, and U.S. infantry captured tens of thousands of poorly supplied Iraqi soldiers operating without command and control from Baghdad. But in the urban warfare scenario of 2002, pitched infantry skirmishes and ambushes in cities may present a more level battlefield for Iraqi troops fighting in their hometowns. The Iraqi military can be expected to fight for each block within each city with the most ruthless means available. When faced with the impending overrun of their nation, the Iraqi military didn't hesitate to use chemical weapons against Iran.

Because of these significant differences, here are 10 reasons why, as a Gulf War combat veteran, I oppose a second Gulf War as a costly and preventable mistake.

1. U.S. troops are vulnerable to Iraqi chemical and biological warfare agents -- if Iraq is capable of using them. The gas masks, detection alarms and protection suits don't work, according to internal Department of Defense documents uncovered during investigations by the U.S. General Accounting Office. This leaves U.S. troops highly vulnerable to chemical and biological attack. U.S. chemical and biological warfare agent casualties in 2002 could be significantly higher than in 1991. Only a few months ago, the Pentagon sent out a press release stating 140,000 U.S. soldiers were exposed to low-levels chemical agents near Khamisiyah, Iraq during the Gulf War. While these soldiers appeared to return home healthy, many tens of thousands face long-term disabling medical problems that are difficult to treat.

2. Scientific evidence shows that even low-level chemical exposures are dangerous. According to a recent National Academy of Sciences report (Gulf War and Health, September 2000), low-levels of chemical warfare agents cause long-term medical problems. This conclusion is based on research resulting from the sarin attack in Japan in 1995.

3. Research shows long-term adverse side effects from mandatory vaccines given to U.S. soldiers deploying to the war zone. According to the product label insert made by BioPort in Michigan, the sole producer, the experimental anthrax vaccine has caused several deaths. The National Academy of Sciences this year concluded there are some risks to the hotly debated vaccine.

4. The Gulf War battlefield remains radioactive and toxic. Scientific research funded by the military and released two years ago links exposure to depleted uranium (DU) ammunition with cancer in rats. Solid depleted uranium bullets, ranging in size from 25mm to 120mm, are used by U.S. tanks, helicopters and planes to attack enemy tanks and armored personnel carriers. The Gulf War battlefield is already littered with more than 300 tons of radioactive dust and shrapnel from the 1991 Gulf War. Another war will only increase the radioactive and toxic contamination among U.S. soldiers. As of today, U.S. troops are not fully trained about the hazards of depleted uranium contamination, even though Congress enacted a law in 1998 requiring extensive training, especially for medical personnel.

5. Research shows long-term adverse side effects from mandatory pills given to U.S. soldiers deploying to the war zone. According to testimony before Congress (Rand Corporation, 1999), the experimental pyridostigmine bromide (PB) anti-chemical warfare agent pills "can't be ruled out" as linked to Gulf War illness. During the war, soldiers were told to take one pill every eight hours. After the chemical alarms sounded, some soldiers, out of legitimate fear for their lives, took more than the prescribed amount. To date, the long-term consequences of PB pills remain largely unknown.

6. The Iraqi civilian opposition was abandoned by U.S. troops in the first Gulf War. After U.S. troops had liberated Kuwait and conquered southern Iraq at the end of February 1991, former President George H.W. Bush encouraged the Iraqi opposition, mainly civilians, to rise up against the Iraqi dictatorship in March 1991. However, former President Bush left the rebels twisting in the wind to be ruthlessly killed by the Iraqi army's Republican Guard flying helicopters allowed by the cease-fire arranged by U.S. military and political leaders. U.S. troops in southern Iraq in March 1991 were ordered not to interfere. How can U.S. troops or Iraqi rebels be confident this won't happen again? Long oppressed by the Iraqi military, what will the civilian population do if Iraq is liberated? The American public won't support a long-term occupation and high casualties.

7. Many post-cease-fire military actions of the first Gulf War were deplorable. In March 1991, the Iraqi army was in a full route inside Iraq. Against orders, former General Barry McCaffrey slaughtered thousands of retreating Iraqi soldiers after the cease-fire (documented in the article, "Overwhelming Force," by Seymour Hersh, The New Yorker, 2000). Many U.S. soldiers returned home with serious objections about the course and consequences of such actions, including the horrific carnage of the "highway of death," littered with hundreds of destroyed cars, tanks and human remains (see "Prayer at Rumayla" by Gulf War veteran Charles Sheehan-Miles, Xlibris, 2001). Will there be another massacre of Iraqi soldiers? Will Iraqi troops slaughter U.S. soldiers in retaliation, killing U.S. prisoners or retreating U.S. soldiers? And will the press be allowed onto the battlefield to record what really happens?

8. No one has been held accountable for arming Iraq with chemical and biological weapons from 1980 to 1990. A recent news article reported that top aides for former presidents Reagan and Bush armed Iraq with these weapons during Iraq's war against Iran between 1980 and 1988 ("Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq in War Despite Use of Gas," New York Times, Aug. 18, 2002). Some of these former George H.W. Bush aides now work for President George W. Bush. These advisors did nothing to stop the sale of the chemical agents to Iraq, did nothing to stop the use of the agents by Iraq, and did nothing to tell the world about Iraq's crimes, even when the world learned Iraq used poison gas against civilians. These top political aides have remained silent for more than 14 years, and many refused to comment on the recent news reports.

9. U.S. allies in Europe oppose invading Iraq. They have refused to supply soldiers, funding or logistical support. Some of the serious U.S. battlefield casualties from 1991 were sent to U.S. military hospitals in Germany. Where will our casualties be flown to for emergency care if Germany follows through on its policy to remain neutral and not allow the use of German airspace? This contrasts sharply with the more than 30 nations allied with the U.S. during Desert Storm in 1991. Today, the U.S. has no Arab allies. In 1991, the U.S. forgave billions in outstanding loans owed by Egypt to buy its support. Now Egypt and other Middle Eastern nations oppose a second invasion of Iraq. If something goes wrong, where will U.S. troops retreat if Saudi Arabia won't allow U.S. troops within its borders? We must avoid another Gallipoli.

10. The Department of Veterans Affairs will not be able to care for additional casualties because VA can't even take care of current VA patients. Most veterans now wait six months to see a VA doctor, and most veterans wait more than six months to receive a decision on a VA disability claim. Many of those waiting in line are Gulf War veterans, many with unusual illnesses. According to VA, of the nearly 700,000 veterans who served in Desert Shield and Desert Storm, more than 300,000 have sought VA healthcare, and more than 200,000 have filed VA disability claims. Two weeks ago, President Bush slashed $275 million from the healthcare budget of the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Although the Iraqi government is a corrupt dictatorship that must eventually be removed, current proposals to remove the government by deploying hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops are deeply flawed. A premature attack against Iraq, especially when the public opposes it, would be a horrible mistake. Since 1990, more than 400 U.S. soldiers have died in the Gulf War theater of operations. Untold hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, both soldiers and civilians, also died. A second invasion of Iraq for one man is not worth one more life; let's use common sense and avert a second Gulf War.

The author is a Gulf War combat veteran.
 
Well....

..far be it for me to refute a veteran, but why would we put "boots on the ground" before saturating all military targets with airpower? And do you really believe that chemical weapons could be effectively used in a city? A shift in wind or a pack of Apache helicopters would make that suicidial, not to mention the escalated response it would draw from our military. Our wounded can be evacued to carriers , which as I'm sure some of our naval buffs here can testify, have outstanding facilities. My current understanding is also that Turkey will fully support ANY effort that will unseat the current Iraqi regime, so retreat lines can be established on a minimum of 2 fronts, as is proper. Not sure where this gent got his info on gas gear, but it's been radically redesigned within the last few years, and to say it's ineffective is a mistake. Agreed, it hasn't been field tested in a combat scenario, but compared to the stuff from 10 + years ago, it's incredibly better. The area of contamination is easily detoured around, since it consists of scorched earth and no tactical targets. The political considerations are not the concern of the military arm...it needs to be prepared to carry out it's function, and I believe it is exceptionally ready and able to do so. As I said on the other thread running on a similar topic, i intend to offer whatever support i can, per my abilities, should we make the decision to go forward with this admittedly odd piece of business in Iraq. I have misgivings about the USA being involved in a preemptive strike, but if we go, we should all support it as totally as possible to end the battle as quickly as possible. But, maybe Iraq will cave and allow the inspections.... Q
 
10 quick reasons too go to war with Iraq.

1) To make sure Saddam never gets any weapons capable of destroying vast numbers of people. I don't know about you, but I don't trust this guy any farther than I can throw his bloated fat ass.

2) To make sure Al-qaida never gets a foot hold in this country. Some thing that has been reported in the past that several operatives for Al-qaida have been seen in the area.

3) To show the UN if your not going to get off your lazy asses to take care of this problem then we will take care of it whether you like it or not. Iraq has violated UN treaties 16 times since the end of the Persian Gulf.

4) To show everyone in the Arab world. You better behave or we are going to whop your asses next. I don't care if the Arab world likes us so long as they fear us.

5) To help Israel. Maybe a lot of people don't care about this but I do. I think one of the targets Saddam has is Israel and once he gets some nasty weapons I'm certain he will target it. Partly I think just to get Israel to retailiate and get all the arab countries united behind Iraq.

6) It seems this conflict is inevitable. We have been shooting at him and him at us in little skirmishes ever since the Gulf War. Why not fight on our terms rather than his when he feels he has enough weaponry.

7) Air support. We can literally blow the area to smitherines before our ground troops ever need to set their tootsies in Iraq. Afghanistan was an excellent example of this. If we could enlist some help from some rebels in Iraq they could pinpoint locations for the airforce to strike that would make this an even easier fight.

8) Naval support. Cruise missile and bombs can be launched from fairly far distances away. Keeping our troops safe again and allowing them to clean up whats left.

9) One could potentially topple the whole goverment like in Afgahnistan if the situation is handled correctly. Saddam has killed many of his own people and I think is not as well liked as the media may make him out to be. If you could enlist the help of Kurds or other groups they could be invaluable for helping the airforce or for toppling the existing goverment.

10) Long term Stability. If we could topple goverments in the region that our openly hostile towards us like we did with the Taliban we might find it easier to negotiate with the more moderate Arab countries. This may depend a lot on how the war is handled.

Now I think one could handle this war in such a way as to minimize casualities. I do think we need to go in and find out just what ol' Saddam is cooking up. Hopefully his plans are still in rudimentary stages. I think the President should get congressional support especially if our real allies might be few and far between. Anyway just a few quick thoughts on the matter.
 
1 reason this vet (non gulf) thinks we should go to war with iraq

the iraqi army will remember the ass whooping we gave them last time, and will surrender even faster than before!

steve
 
Hmm wasnt America this confident right before we went into Vietnam......................
 
No we were this confident when we went into The Persian Gulf and when we went into Afghanistan. Both are excellent examples of our present day butt-kicking ability.
 
Uh..........both those times we had the support of other nations........
 
Well support of other nations I would say is nice but it is more like icing on the cake. I think probably Britain would be aboard and perhaps a few others. Although military I don't think its necessary. The main strategic factor would be places to park our fighters and bombers. Having a place like Turkey or Saudi Arabia, slim chance on the latter, would be a great advantage.

The battles that I mentioned before were won mainly due to superior US military technology. From the cruise missile, to the tanks, to the fighters and bombers. That sealed victory more than anything else I think.

As I said before it might be possible to get help from within Iraq from people who hate Saddam but have not been able to do anyhting about it. If they could pinpoint targets like the northern alliance did in Afghanistan that would make things go much smoother. That would also mean less military casualites on our side and less civilian casualites to boot.
 
Re: 1 reason this vet (non gulf) thinks we should go to war with iraq

areenactor said:
the iraqi army will remember the ass whooping we gave them last time, and will surrender even faster than before!

steve

I'll give you an even better reason: We let Saddam have how many second chances? He shoulda been FRIED the last time. Yes, the U.S. gave the iraqi army a good ass whooping, but didn't finish the job.
 
allies, you mean like the syrians?

they were so back biting that they weren't allowed out of saudi arabia! as for military help; one american armoured brigade the "tiger brigade" took out 4 full iraqi tank divisions! it would have done more, but was told to stop. this was done with NO losses of it's own!
how about the marine breaching of the iraqi sand dune defensive line? the marines shot through it in what, 25 minutes, with only a couple of marines wounded. this was the same defensive line the french said couldn't be breached!
the brits did a great job, they kept up well, and did as good a job when along side our tanks. the most casualties they took were from friendly fire! they will need a new attack plane though, the tornado sucks.
and the vaunted republican guard was mauld by our b-52's. when the marines advanced on them, they cut and run!
no ice, we don't need "our good allies".
steve
 
I have several contradictions.

Exposure to radiation is both preventable in cases and controllable in others.Nobody is requiring a battle in a contaminated area,and time,distance,and shielding are used to prevent it.

There is hardly such a thing as an Arab ally,as they tend to change alliances at will.....witness Afghanistan.However,both Kuwait and Qatar have granted access and use of facilities to the US,and Turkey
is right now allowing storage of munitions.

What makes one think that we wouldn't use the same ABC/NBC agents against Iraq if we are confronted with them?They do make a mess in crowded cities this writer says their troops will hide in,as does massive bombing.

As far as German neutrality,you can kiss NATO,trade with Germany,and relations with Germany goodbye if this action was taken. I do wonder where this idea sprung up from.

Vietnam was far different from this situation.There,we were slowly drawn into an affair with no plans,strategies,or even goals set.General Westmoreland cited this problem when he took over there.
Public support was shaky at best,the South Vietnamese were a problem themselves,and much protesting caused morale and resolve trouble at home.

This time,we have a goal. We will have a strategy if we don't already.The public is largely behind the decision,and the few protestors are at least ignored.We don't have a shaky government to support.The weaponry is far advanced from then,as is military technology.

And this time,the troops KNOW what they are fighting about,and won't need more than 9/11 pictures for motivation.
 
Okay, these are ...adequate reasons NOT to invade, but that doesn't even matter. Say someone is threatening you or your family or friends. You say, "Well, we can't go fight him off, because he has a big knife. We have a lot of knives ourselves, but that big knife will really hurt..."

Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. Which is why we are going in, because he was supposed to destroy them. But to say we can't attack him because soldiers may die is folly - in war, soldiers die. It happens. We have gotten used to "wars" that were so called "video game wars," were we bombed from the air and no lives were lost. Now, that's great, that's how it should be, as Patton said, let the enemy die for HIS country, the point is to not lose any of your guys. But in war, death happens. Saddam hates us, he laughed at us after Sept 11, some people think that he was involved with the Oklahoma City Bombing, (maybe, maybe not) Mohammad Atta supposedly met with an Iraqi Official, on and on.

The reasons why all these European countries don't care is simple - Iraq won't attack them. He hates Israel and America. Has Saddam ever said anything about Germany? He doesn't care about them, and they know it, so they aren't worried. So they can be left out of the equation. They are free to rant, but also to be ignored.

The difference this time is that George Bush has given Israel free reign. Before, they had to sit there and be bombed by SCUDS. This time, Bush is untying their hands.

It's different also because before, Saddam took over Kuwait, and was headed for Saudi Arabia. Osama Bin Laden offered to defend Saudi Arabia with his guys. They refused, put him under house arrest, and asked the United States instead. Bin Laden shortly thereafter declared war on us. Bin Laden also wants to take over Saudi Arabia, so that's why they helped us in Afganistan. But a large section of their population doesn't like us. If we control Iraqs oil, things will be very different. They will have less influence over us.

This is different from Vietnam, because Vietnam never attacked us. I the Gulf War, we weren't attacked. Pearl Harbor, that was an attack on the military, while the planet was at war.

Sept 11th was a terrorist attack on civilians, on the continental USA, on a clear day when the world was not at war. This is more different than any attack in the last century. We were pissed, and that's why everything is so different now. Pakistan supported the Taliban, helped them into power (but couldn't control them), but when the world saw us VERY pissed, they helped us, probably because they were scared shitless. "You are either with us or against us" woke a few nations up pretty quickly.

The deeper meaning of these debates, however, is valid. Nations have a right to self determination. "Who are we to define Iraq's future?" is the question that is being asked. If we attack Iraq, who's next? Are we to look at the world and decide which is an appropriate government, and which isn't? Zimbabwe, for example, is now controlled by a ruthless buture. Are we to invade that nation and control them? Why not, he is a bad guy? If China were to become a superpower (since they are the ones who possibly could,) do THEY get to determine the course of the planet?

These are questions that must be asked and debated.
 
mabus said:
"You are either with us or against us" woke a few nations up pretty quickly.


Just wondering, if England or Australia or Sweden or Germany said 'we're not with the US on this one', what would happen to them?
 
While it's probably true we don't need much in the way of help to invade Iraq, like it or not, we are going to need the goodwill of the rest of the world to successfully prosecute the ongoing war on terrorism (remember that? The thing we were concerned about before Iraq?). That war is as much a police matter as a military one, against enemies who do not generally have the courtesy to sit around in easily invadable countries and gather in easily bombable targets. We are going to need the cooperation of other countries' intelligence services and police forces to locate, track, and where necessary destroy terrorist networks, and telling the world "Piss off, we don't need you, we'll do it our way" is an odd way to go about ensuring that cooperation.

You might want to take a look at this article by General Wesley Clark, who led the successful military campaign to remove Slobodan Milosevic from power: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0209.clark.html .
 
Biggles of 266 said:



Just wondering, if England or Australia or Sweden or Germany said 'we're not with the US on this one', what would happen to them?

well in the case of sweden, we just stop importing saabs, and they go b.k.! germany, well, they have the rest of the e.u. so suck dry before going b.k., but i wouldn't mind seeing a stoppage of v.w's, and beemers comming in. england won't side against us, period. and australia? we just quietly tell indonisia that our pacific fleet won't step in if they want to go ahead with their invasian plans.
steve
 
What makes you think that anything would happen to countries who don't participate in a war with Iraq? Were you expecting an invasion or something?

If things like trade sanctions were your idea,we'll have to see.
 
areenactor said:
we just quietly tell indonisia that our pacific fleet won't step in if they want to go ahead with their invasian plans.
steve

Indonesia's gonna invade? 😱 Let 'em come, by the time they fight their way 1/4 of the way down the coast they'll be too buggered and head back home. They can keep Cairns, Darwin and all the crappy desert in between. Hot and Cold running dust, with all the dust you can eat and a lovely view of the dust. Australia's Navy could take the Indonesian one, they just have a lot more infantry than us. Do you think that the Australian navy ships up the top of the country are really 'watching out for smugglers and illegal fishing boats' and not keeping an eye on Indonesia? 😉


What makes you think that anything would happen to countries who don't participate in a war with Iraq? Were you expecting an invasion or something? If things like trade sanctions were your idea,we'll have to see.

I didn't mean countries not invading Iraq, but Bush said that if you're not with us, you're against us. If New Zealand (who are already in US bad books for refusing to accept a visit from a Nukular Sub) or Holland or Australia or the Cook Islands or Canada or Finland or any other country in the world didn't want to get involved in the War on Terror, that would logically mean that the US is against them. Then what? Do they just get the crappy seats at UN meetings from now on?

Australia already has trade sanctions against it from the US against our lamb and our steel and probably some other stuff too.

Biggles
 
Have to wait and see.Attitudes might change one way or another over the next few years,or however long this situation lasts.
 
biggles, if you want a look at what it really means

what pres. bush ment was to be on our side, and cooporate, or give aid to the terrorists. i really don't see australia give a base to al-qida. a good example of what happens to those who harbor, and protect the terrorists are the taliban of afganistan! notice how fast pakistan changed their tune.
make no mistake, if germany anounced that they were providing u.b.l. a new home and play ground, their night skys would be filled with stealth bombers.
steve
 
areenactor said:


well in the case of sweden, we just stop importing saabs, and they go b.k.! germany, well, they have the rest of the e.u. so suck dry before going b.k., but i wouldn't mind seeing a stoppage of v.w's, and beemers comming in. england won't side against us, period. and australia? we just quietly tell indonisia that our pacific fleet won't step in if they want to go ahead with their invasian plans.
steve

I know this is going to make me look thicker than a whale-egg omlette. but what does "going b.k." mean Steve?
 
BigJim said:


I know this is going to make me look thicker than a whale-egg omlette. but what does "going b.k." mean Steve?

sorry big jim. going b.k. is an american slang for bankrupcy.
steve
 
areenactor said:


sorry big jim. going b.k. is an american slang for bankrupcy.
steve

Ah-ha! Thanks for that Steve. I had a slight suspiscion that it might be slang for buying a carry-out burger. :blaugh:
 
Re: biggles, if you want a look at what it really means

areenactor said:
i really don't see australia give a base to al-qida.


Not intentionally, no. My government is probably more conservative than yours, so I don't think it's gonna happen. Funny you should mention terrorists training in Australia. The Aum cult which released Sarin in the Tokyo subways was later found to have bought a huge sheep property in the outback of Western Australia and tested their gas on sheep. It's a big country, desert training camps could easily be happening. With weather similar to Afghanistan, it would be easy to sneak a training camp in piece by piece and be training in Australia. Or any other desert country for that matter...
 
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