The continuity of the Star Wars Saga

[Celtic_Emperor]

Wow, its really rare that I create a thread of my own rather than simply posting in others. I can't remember the last time I created a thread here (in the General Discussion forum that is).

Anyways, I wanted my fellow Star Wars fans to answer something that I'm not sure was ever answered in a previous thread a long time ago.

There was talk and rumors of George Lucas not completely throwing out the possibility or idea of another trilogy which would start up of course after Return of the Jedi.

I believe we were talking about what the next installment should be if there will be one. I'm not sure if I brought it up or not, but I thought 'Dark Empire' would be a good place to start. This is of course is from the expanded universe and alot of purist fans would frown on that.

I do believe we also discussed the likelyhood of Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and even Harrison Ford making a comeback to reprize their famous roles of Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa Solo, and Han Solo respectfully.

What do you guys and gals think? Is it totally bogus, or is that rumor true? Anyone with any official inside scoop? If so, I'd like to hear it. ^__^

 

[leafstk]

I haven't heard anything about it, personally. It sounds intriguing, but really - these guys wouldn't truly be interested now. I mean, have you seen Mark Hamill?? LOL I've always loved Star Wars and I can't wait for next year's film, but I think the days of Han, Luke and Leia are over 🙁

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Mark Hamill did a really good job as the role of Col. Christopher Blair for the sci-fi/fighter simulator/live action game series Wing Commander. No, not the movie, that SUCKED and was so untrue to the series in so many ways. What they should have done was get the actors from the games. How stupid of them.

Although these actors probably wouldn't want to come back. At worst Lucas could get different actors to play the roles, but it just wouldn't be the same. And the fact that Luke, Leia, and Han would now aged, that would make it belivable according to the time line.

As for Dark Empire, I think that would be a good choice because it really takes everything that has happened to the characters and sort of settles it. Luke is a jedi master, Leia is a jedi herself, and Han, well, he's Han! LOL Also, Palpatine is back, and has at his command the largest warship ever contructed, the Eclipse, a new super star destroyer thats twice the size of the originals. I would LOVE to see that ship on the big screen! This bad boy is solid black in color, has it's own modified super laser, enough hangar bays to house and deploy an entire fleet's worth of fighters, and its own gravity well projectors to insure that no enemy ships can escape into hyperspace. What a fleet battle that would be! The New Republic's fleet against Palpatine's fleet!

If this were to happen, they'd need to make a really good fleet battle. Star Wars is ironically missing that. While the Battle of Endor was pretty good it wasn't great, in my opinion. Star Wars needs some sort of an invasion fleet battle or something, with a hundreds of ships and fighters by the thousands. Well, thats what would be ideal to me anyways. To see the Eclipse tear apart Republic ships with only a few volley shots, and seeing it recklessly ram into them, cutting them in half too! Thats how huge this ship is and how powerful its shields and hull are.

Anyways, anyone with any other ideas?

 

[BOFH666]

Buggs man, PLEASE put spoiler warnings and a bit of space before this stuff! I've skipped on once I read the first paragraph but I did NOT want to know that!

 

[venray]

I have added *SPOILER* to the beginning of your post, Buggs...Lots of us dont want to know ahead of time....😉


Ray

 

[ShadowFyre]

Not to be a COMPLETE Star Wars geek, but I do regularly go to the official SW website, and most of the changes listed in buggs' list will most likely NOT be in the DVD release that comes out this September. That list has been floating around for ages, actually, and it's just wishful thinking on someone's part. At least that is the word from the website, but I guess we will all see when the dvd's come out. I have heard the rumor of removing the original Anakin for the ROTJ scene for a long time, and I personally doubt it is going to happen. That scene looks like someone had fun with Photoshop.


http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?forum=21&thread=9436

Quite a long thread about the release, but worth it if you really like Star Wars and have LOTS of time to kill!

Oh yeah, before I forget about the oft-rumored sequel trilogy......

http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jsp?forum=3&thread=17218

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Something is better than nothing, I suppose. 🙂

 

[BOFH666]

Not to be a COMPLETE Star Wars geek, but I do regularly go to the official SW website, and most of the changes listed in buggs' list will most likely NOT be in the DVD release that comes out this September. That list has been floating around for ages, actually, and it's just wishful thinking on someone's part.

Well... oh what the hell, hang on a sec

*reads list*

Hmm, yeah, I'm inclined to agree with that. Too many things that so-called 'true fans' have been bitc, umm, I mean, asking for polietly included. Number 7 for example... And as for the quote from Steve Sansweet about these being the films "as George Lucas sees them today", that was an answer to the question "are these the special edition or original cuts?". In other words, no, they are not the originals. And as for "people in the know who are working on the changes" LMFAO! 😀 😀 😀 Could that be a little more vague? Besides, let's be honest here, Lucas is likely to have the same teams working on this at ILM that have done the prequels and they've been pretty damn good at keeping quiet, mainly because I suspect that they like being employed.

That scene looks like someone had fun with Photoshop.

Okay, let's have a look... tricky to tell, if it is a photoshop job, it's not a bad one. Things that set off warning bells though:

• Bottom Left - the 'glow' on Anakins cloak looks totally different to the glow not only on Yoda and Obi-wan, but to the rest of the glow on Anakin. It's also badly pixelated.
• Bottom Middle - there's a weird aftereffect, like a double exposure, starting at the right (his left, our right) of Anakin's cloak and runnig up into the tunic
• Middle Left - another odd set of lines on the left (our left, his right) side of Anakin's cloak
• Eyelines - Don't seem to match up to where they should be.
• Personal thing but it's as if Anakin's body seems a little, I don't know, out of proportion with both his head and what we know Hayden looks like.
• Age - Why's he the 'young' Anakin, surely he should be in the "old makeup" referenced in that list?
• Integration - The glow around Yoda and Obi-wan is 'joined' (look between Yoda's ear and Obi-wan's sleeve) but breaks when it gets to Anakin.
• Again, this could just be me, but the light source doesn't look right. On Yoda and Obi-wan it's coming from stage left, on Anakin from straight ahead.

I'd guess that if there's any changes they might clean up some of the effects shots and maybe add a scene or two if they're needed but I see the bulk of the effort on these three films going into the transfer to DVD. The special edition prints may have been restored from the originals for the video release but remember the DVD's have to hold up against the prequels which, for 2 and 3 anyway, have direct digital transfers...

As for a third trilogy, well, I have to admit as big a geek as I am I don't particularly want to see the extended universe being put on screen. Not that the books weren't good, the Timothy Zahn ones in particular were great, but I just don't want to hear all the complaining we've had from fans about the prequels all over again. If they're going to do another Trilogy, set it way in the 'future', how about when the Jedi have had a few generations to recover from the Genocide we see (well, maybe) in Star Wars 3 and are trying to establish themselves again? Reference the events we've already seen but don't use the same characters. That way we get a clean break and a story that doesn't have any excess baggage to deal with.

 

[BOFH666]

Like this expert:

George Lucas will release a statement regarding the release of the DVD version of the Origional Trilogy after the trailers for Episode iii are released. As of now, he is expecting the DVD's to be released around 2006-2007. It will take a long time to create the DVD because he must digitally remaster the video and soundtrack, set up audio commentary, and put together all of the special features, which there will be a huge amount of. It will be totally awesome. He plans on having it be at least 7 hours per DVD.

Yep there are the experts working on the DVD. Yeah. It will be released in 2006 or 2007. I guess no one told this expert that it is being released in the fall. But hey, he is an expert cause he is posting on the forum.

Buggs, before going off on one you might want to check one little, small, almost insignificant detail. That was posted, wait for it:

May 19, 2002

Last I looked the 2004 release date was only officialy confirmed, what, this year?

In fact, if you read that post you quoted, aside from the "7 hours per DVD" which I don't see happening (that'd be, what, the film and three commentaries? Although that said, this was written before the 4th disc ala Indiana Jones was made public, so actually he's probably not that far off the mark) he's spot on. The stated plan WHEN HE POSTED was indeed to release the three original films on DVD after Episode 3 was out not just in cinemas but on DVD, so his timescale was right AT THE TIME. He's also right that creating the DVD's is a BIG job, remember that even though they've got the restored prints for the special edition they ain't (as far as I know) digital so they can't simply transfer them.

And I don't believe anything ANYONE says at this point about what's going to be on those disks unless it's got the official Lucas stamp on it.

Okay. And you guys are taking your info from a forum of people that aren't working on the DVD's or work at ILM. Hmm. Yep that is proof enough for me.

While I hate to point this out, you didn't post any link or credentials for that list whatsoever. So it is, in fact, another set of information from someone who isn't "working on the DVD's or work(ing) at ILM" but IS posting on a forum.

Oh, and just for the record, I'm not saying that the pics and info you posted is definatley NOT accurate, I'm just saying that until I see it from Lucasfilm I'm treating ANYTHING as suspect. Frankly, I don't really see the point in hunting out every little detail, the release is only a few months off, I'd rather wait and see what surprises there are in store without seeing a thousand and one spoilers then going through the finished film actually looking for changes.

 

[venray]

From Lucasfilm LTD site

Star Wars Trilogy DVD Set to Offer More than 10 Hours of Entertainment
April 20, 2004

More than 10 Hours of bonus materials join the classic, newly remastered films in a four-disc set that includes a brand-new, feature-length documentary and behind-the-scenes featurettes.
Already among the best-selling titles of 2004 – more than four months before its release – the Star Wars Trilogy comes to DVD for the first time ever on Sept. 21 in the U.S. and Canada, with international release dates following closely.

No. 1 on Amazon.com's best-seller lists in the U.S., Canada, Germany and the U.K, the four-disc DVD set from Lucasfilm Ltd. and Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment is priced at $69.98 SRP and includes more than 10 hours of entertainment and extraordinary picture and sound quality.

"Knowing how excited Star Wars fans are about this release, we're working very hard to make the films look and sound spectacular and to deliver a DVD collection that will be truly memorable," said Jim Ward, Vice President of Marketing and Distribution at Lucasfilm Ltd., and the DVD's executive producer.

Available in both widescreen and full-frame formats in the U.S. (and widescreen only internationally), the three films in the Star Wars Trilogy – Episode IV A New Hope, Episode V The Empire Strikes Back and Episode VI Return of the Jedi – have been newly restored and remastered by renowned Lowry Digital Images and are presented with Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround EX. Each film also includes new commentary by George Lucas and cast and crew members, including director Irvin Kershner, actress Carrie Fisher, sound designer Ben Burtt and Industrial Light & Magic's Dennis Muren.

A fourth disc in the collection includes an additional four hours of added-value material that brings remarkable new depth and insight into the making of the three films and the broader Star Wars saga.

The cornerstone of this fourth disc is Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy. The two-and-a-half hour documentary traces the evolution of Star Wars from a low-budget, labor-of-love space saga to a movie phenomenon that defied the odds and reinvented the rules. At its core, Empire of Dreams tells the story of an independent filmmaker who had to innovate and invent an entirely new way of creating motion pictures.

Featuring all-new interviews with Lucas and more than 40 members of the cast and crew from all three films, Empire of Dreams also includes appearances by a host of filmmakers and media personalities, along with never-before-seen behind-the-scenes footage from the making of the three films. This new documentary brings viewers the most comprehensive look at a pioneer who triumphed against the odds to create an enduring modern fairy tale that has captivated the world.

Additionally, the fourth bonus disc offers a host of other exciting features, including:

Episode III Behind the Scenes Preview: The Return of Darth Vader: No other villain is as iconic as Darth Vader, a symbol of doom since his first appearance on movie screens in 1977 who remains a permanent part of popular culture. Finally, Star Wars: Episode III will reveal just how Anakin Skywalker became the feared Sith Lord. In this exclusive preview, George Lucas discusses Anakin's descent, while viewers will get a first look at the new Vader costume forged for Episode III and will experience first-hand how Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregor have prepared for the epic lightsaber battle that has been anticipated more than two decades: the climactic showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

The Birth of the Lightsaber™: Its unforgettable hum and scintillating glow are instantly recognizable around the world, and now viewers will discover the origins of this elegant weapon from a more civilized age. This documentary, devoted to the lightsaber, features insight from George Lucas, cast and crew into the history of the iconic laser sword. It showcases the genesis of the lightsaber stunt and special-effects work and illustrates how each film in the Star Wars saga has surpassed the previous one with spectacular action set pieces featuring the Jedi's most trusted weapon.

The Characters of Star Wars: An in-depth look at how favorite characters came to be, featuring rare concept art, behind-the-scenes footage and interviews with George Lucas and the cast and crew who shaped the screen's favorite heroes – Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo, Chewbacca, R2-D2 and C-3PO – and the greatest villain of all, Darth Vader.

The Force Is With Them: The Legacy of Star Wars: Star Wars opened up a galaxy of possibilities to a generation of filmmakers and creative talents. Viewers will hear first-hand from some of the most notable filmmakers of our time about how influential the Star Wars movies have been to their lives.

Star Wars Battlefront™ Trailer and Playable Demo: Now that the greatest Star Wars battles are on DVD, video game players can live them like never before in the new video game Star Wars: Battlefront from LucasArts, available for PlayStation®2, Xbox® and PC-CD. The Star Wars Trilogy DVD will offer a trailer featuring an exciting look at the video game, along with a special demo for Xbox users that lets users fight the Battle of Endor as a Rebel or Imperial soldier and drive AT-STs, ride speeder bikes and use different weapons to lead their side to victory. The full version of Star Wars Battlefront will also be released Sept. 21 for the PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system, Xbox® video game system from Microsoft, and PC.

Star Wars: Episode III Making the Game Preview: Video-game players will be able to experience the stunning Jedi action of Episode III themselves in the new Star Wars: Episode III game. This special feature shows how game developers at LucasArts worked behind-the-scenes and on the set to create the most authentic Jedi experience ever. The Star Wars: Episode III game will be available in Spring 2005 for the PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system and Xbox® video game system from Microsoft.

Original Trailers and TV Spots: The original theatrical teaser, launch and re-release trailers for each film, plus TV spots, are featured on the DVD.

Never-Before-Seen Production Gallery: DVD owners will delve into an unseen corner of the Lucasfilm Archives with exclusive photos from the making of the Star Wars Trilogy, traveling from Tunisia to England, Norway, Arizona and back to California.

Posters and Print Campaigns: The original releases of the Star Wars Trilogy films came at a time when international campaigns produced a wealth of intriguing, alternative poster art. Viewers can explore a collection of theatrical posters from around the world.

Exclusive DVD-ROM Content: The Star Wars Trilogy DVDs are keys that unlock exclusive content available only through a special DVD-ROM website. In addition, the DVD offers a link to starwars.com, the official Star Wars destination on the Web, which provides daily features and updates on the continuing Star Wars saga.

Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope was originally released in 1977 and has a running time of 125 minutes. Star Wars: Episode V The Empire Strikes Back was released in 1980 and is 135 minutes. Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi was released in 1983 and has a running time of 130 minutes. All three films have been rated PG by the Motion Picture Association of America and are rated PG in Canada.

 

[BOFH666]

Oh one more thing. He has done it before. Look at the PAHNTOM MENACE dvd. It has scenes that weren't in the theatrical release. Didn't even announce he was doing it, just did it. In fact, alot of the visual effects changes he can easily do on the SABRE compositing system that used to be his big thing when he had it invented at ILM in 1993, but now is the tool they use for what they consider "easy compositing shots", which all of those would be.

And this proves what exactly? We know George Lucas (or anyone else for that matter) CAN do things like this (heck, even Star Trek did it with DS9, umm, don't remember the episode title, the one when they went back to Kirk's time) but that doesn't mean it's going to get done. If it comes out without ANY changes I'll actually be surprised, but I'd expect it to be the same sort of tweaks we got on the special editions, more cleaning of effects than anything else (the lightsabre's for example). Or adding whole new scenes in (whether reshot or restored). But I really don't think it's as easy as you're making out to do additions. Remember that while you CAN simply paint on a new ship or whatever that's the EASY part of the job. Once that's done you need to to get the lighting right, redo the ENTIRE soundstage for that scene, make sure the new elements match perfectly with the old and on and on.

As for why it's taken so long for this to be released, well just look at Ray's post. That's a BUTLOAD of work to go through, and you've got to asume they've had to edit down substantialy to get that considering the size of their media archive. More to the point, check the commentary tracks. Lucas, Burtt and Muren are actively involved with other movies (the prequels for example) and Lucas has always said that the delay in getting episodes 4, 5 and 6 out was in finding the time he needed to do them justice. Looking at that lot I can understand why he needed that time. Also, as big as ILM is, don't forget they do other things than Lucasfilm movies. Lucas himself has been caught up in pre-production for the prequels since, what, 1997 or something like that? Making a movie the size and scale of Star Wars is a massive undertaking and as they wanted to do the original films justice and not just release a bare bones set, no they did indeed have to wait until they had the resource to do it properly.

As I said, I do expect changes but I don't believe we've seen 'em yet. Put it this way, the picture AICN has shows what, to my eye, looks like the EXACT same shot from ROTJ but with a different head. Even the folds in the cloth and slightly 'off' special effects are the same. More importantly, EVERY time there's been a real leak from ILM there have been near-instant 'take it down NOW' letters sent out. Yet this one stays up..... hmmm.

One interesting thing though, from the info Ray posted (cheers for that by the way, actual factual info with a source that doesn't spoil anything for the unwary. Nice) the running times are 125,135 and 130 minutes. According to the VCR special edition boxes sitting next to me, their running times were 120, 122 and 129 minutes... Wonder what's up there. ROTJ could just be a rounding thing the 5 minutes on ANH could just be credits but 13 minutes on TESB? Hmmm, interesting. Roll on September when the fans can sit back, relax, enjoy and be surprised all over again.

 

[ShadowFyre]

Just another quick point about the stormtroopers: they aren't the same as the clone troopers. In the original Star Wars trilogy, the stormtroopers aren't "all clones of the same guy." The stormtroopers were conscripted. Just check out the heights. They are all different heights and weights, so they cannot be clones.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Wow, alot more back and forth conversation than I expected out of this thread. You are all being very informative, thank you. Its clear that you all know a great deal more than me. 🙂

 

[EvlJester]

I really dont care what changes they made to 4,5,and 6, i just wanna see the third one and then i will be happy.

 

[leafstk]

I really dont care what changes they made to 4,5,and 6, i just wanna see the third one and then i will be happy.

I agree! 😀 If only to get one last glimpse at the Dark Lord Vader 😀 😀 😀 yeah, I can't wait!

 

[BigJim]

It has been said many times that nothing is "canon" apart from the 6 films. However it's been mentioned on numerous occasions that the imperial stormtroopers are normal human beings. Apparently there qwere instabilities in clones, and although better soldiers than those poxy Federation battle droids, their cells would go tits up after a while and they'd either go mad and start blatting everyone in sight, or drop dead having grown three extra heads and an extra dick. 🙂D)

I've seen pictures of Hayden Christianssen in the Vader armour and his makeup looks startingly like Sebatian Shaw's. (The actor who plays the dying anakin in the final minutes of ROTJ.) The scars on his bald skull, the white flesh... everything. There's be no reason why Shaw should be taken out of the DVD. I do think it's a good idea to withdraw Greedo's "first shot" in the Mos Eisly cantina. Perhaps the Sarlacc could lose that shitty beak too?