The originals of tickle torture

[Celtic_Emperor]

I was reading a BAC comic online and theres this part where one of the characters mentions basically that tickle torture was pioneered/created by the chinese.

I wanted to know, is this true?

If so, can anyone provide me a history or short description of how tickling developed into a form of torture? I find this interesting and would appriciate any information you could provide.

Thanks alot. ^__^

 

[Myst]

It is late, and my brain is only working at 15% efficiency. But i'll take a wack at it.

It was many years ago, even during the days in medievel Japan and China, where samurai's, ninjas, and knights were the greatest of warriors.

During those times, men were forbidden to even slightly harm a women that would leave a mark, or he would face death. Well, when war rolled around between cities etc. these laws still stood. Women were called in as spies because they couldn't be harmed due to the law. But, several geniuses decided that they'd think up a torture that would leave no marks, and therefore left no proof. Over time many tortures originated: the dripping water torture, the bladder torture, the extremely smelly object torture (Never had a real name), and of course..TICKLE TORTURE.

Oddly enough, Tickling turned out to be incredibly affecting on most chinese women because they always were fair and their skin was soft as silk.

Soon enough, word of these tortures spread to the many other cities, and even other countries...including Russia who later adapted it after Lenin's demise.

Well, over time tickle torture was fused with other tortures, such as forcing a women right to the "point" before stopping etc. and the chinese found these much more effective at extracting information because no immunity could be formed. It is still wildly used today as a form of interrogation by several groups within seperate nations.

I have heard rumors that even the Soviet Union trusted in this particular torture to extract information from those nuts who seemed impossible to crack.

I guess all through time people just began to learn to enjoy it, and so we were born.

Now take note, this is only the "cliffs notes" version...the whole thing would take me several hours to type up. But at least you might have a basic idea.

Love your artwork CE...bye

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

First, I'd like to note I made a type in the title of this thread. Its supposed to be origins rather than originals. I only bring it up because if I'm not mistaken this is the first time in my history of the internet that I've ever made such an error.

Second, thank you very, very much Myst. Not just for replying and giving me a great explanation and history, but for taking the time even while fatigued in doing so. ^__^

I'd like to hear more about this, if your up to it later.

Third, thanks alot. I'm glad you like it. ^__^


I'd appriciate any other info anyone else has to offer as well. Thanks. I want to understand as much as I can about this. I truely find the idea of tickling to extract information fun. And knowing its taken place throughout history in a serious manner and serious practice is compelling.

 

[Myst]

Nothing is ever too good for a fellow TMF member. ^_^

If I could get a blasted scanner i'd do requests and show some of my own work, but sadly...I GOT NO MOOLA TO SPEND ON MEHSELF...

Well, i'll go deeper into it tomorrow perhaps, or someone else will most likely. Good night my friend, may you have many tickles in life XD

SIEG HIEL ZE TMF!

 

[Deleted member 2452]

i'm impressed myst.

that was a very good quick (by your account) explanation.
i look forward to reading an expanded history.
i'd also like to add a couple points. the greeks of old used tickling. this i learned from a friend of mine, who's from greece.
tickling was also used in germany during the middle ages, and even into ww2.

steve

 

[Phineas]

It is late, and my brain is only working at 15% efficiency. But i'll take a wack at it.
Love your artwork CE...bye

funny how those of us who've actively researched and studied Chinese history have never heard of any of this.

can you cite your sources, please?

 

[Haltickling]

funny how those of us who've actively researched and studied Chinese history have never heard of any of this.

Phineas, how much about other torture methods have you learnt during your research and study? Just asking, as most history books keep bashfully silent over such things...

 

[Phineas]

Phineas, how much about other torture methods have you learnt during your research and study? Just asking, as most history books keep bashfully silent over such things...

not much, actually... which is why I'm asking for a source, since he seems to have such detailed information at hand. I'd love to be proven wrong!

 

[Myst]

I did much of my research over the web and in my public library actually...it was empty and I had the entire room to myself. If I find some of the books I can try to give you some quotes or names so you can see for yourself.

I'm part Russian and German, and part Italian...which isn't important..but anyway

From what I heard, Germany actually preferred a more...painful approach...they used racks, scourgings etc. to extract information. As did Russia.

When you were brought to a Nazi Prison camp (which are being built today on american soil, POPULATION CONTROL AT ITS FINEST FOLKS!)
Men were brought into a room and basically more or less ripped in two. Women on the other hand had other things to look forward to: These women were withheld both food and water, and were sometimes beaten to death. Zhukov, Marshall of the Soviet Union, advised Hitler during the Soviet and Nazi pact that the Chinese seemed to be having the advantage, and that prisoners should be sent there.

Hitler decided on the other hand, to bring the chinese to his side, calling in several hundred chinese males to Germany. Spies were confessing by the hundreds, and both the Soviets and Nazi's were intrigued by the sudden change


Stalin decided to adapt the same tortures they used, and put away the spikes, hot coals, and other fiendish devices (for women anyway). Hitler soon followed.

Now, although most of the torture consisted of the more casual types, such as the dripping water torture. Tickling and orgasm denial were found to be the two most effective tortures for women. Sadly, men still were forced to face the branding rods etc. in Germany, while in Russia they continued to have there flesh removed from their bodies.

Overtime connections between the Soviet Union and Germany went sour, and you all know where it went from there. BUT, during the course of the war, when Stalin attacked Berlin, and the Allies polished off Germany and China, secrets were revealed. America, Britain, and France..they all adapted the chinese method of torture. Today, this process is still used under certain conditions, and success is still at an all time high ^_^.

ANOTHER CLIFF NOTES VERSION!

I know this one is kinda hard to understand, but i'm running out the door, hope you guys can decode my confusing method of writing. BYE ^_^

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

It wasn't hard to understand at all. Or was it supposed to be?..ara... 😕 😀

Anywho, thanks again. I don't suppose you could give me some links for this could you? I'd really appriciate it.

 

[Hosetickler23]

I studdied Mideival Europe mostly England and have heard a lot of the torture devices The Rack, Iron Maiden, Gieoten, Stocks (head and handa and feet) thumb screw, Stone Press, and so on most extremely painful (most associated with the European witch hunts) all resuls in extreme pain and death. I would be more apt to believe tickle torture is more of a recent Idea then Mideival Idea if you where going to torture someone with in an inch of their life to be humain you just take their life.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Still though, its a wonder to me that tickling could really be that effective. The worst you'd be able to do is force them to pass out eventually. Was the tickling really that bad or sensual that someone would easily break?

Its a mind thing too. If you keep yourself from thinking about the tickling its possible to not break to it. I can often turn off my body to pain or physical discomfort by pretending its not there. Unless they are torturing you in several ways besides tickling I don't see how it would be that effective. It could be a long, dragged on process before you get any information out of them.

 

[gig1965]

I f it were true, it would be widely known by all.

 

[Myst]

I just repeat what I read, but i'll try to obtain some links.

I do remember them mentioning an age old wives tale that if you harmed a women, you would be turned to stone or something. So I assume the chinese may have had other techniques as well, but they would never cause true pain too them.

I promise to look further into it. Happy tickles

Myst

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

You don't have to promise anything, but thank you for doing it anyway. ^__^

 

[Oddjob0226]

Well, here are a few tidbits I've uncovered -

Dripping water torture as we know it was developed in Europe. It may have been used or discovered in Asia at the same time, but Hippolytus de Marsiliis, a sixteenth century lawyer, realized its usefulness when he saw how water wore away slowly the surface of a rock.

The idea of "Chinese" torture, or "Chinese" anything, is something the British came up with around WWI. What it meant was something odd or unusual or weird (i.e.: a Chinese firedrill was a chaotic mess; Chinese handcuffs were those strange little wicker finger locking devices). "Chinese" as an adjective didn't automatically mean something was Chinese. A "Chinese" torture could have meant just an odd or unconventional method being used.


I've asked Chinese women about tickling in China, and the answers always vary from "Yes it happened" but no details to "I don't know". But they've never gotten offended and asked what my source for this question was.... One woman told me that it was used on women by their husbands as a warning, in case the woman was thinking about leaving the man. I've also read that it was used in court during the time of Marco Polo - specifically, it was used on a woman and child who were caught stealing food - AND that it was used on men, never women (this coming from the same source!!)

As far as men not being able to hurt women in Asia, the Chinese story of Little Cabbage seems to dispel that idea.


I've read where Anne Frank was tickled until fainting at least twice in the concentration camps. I've read where only homosexual men were tickled until they died in the camps.


Something called "laughing to death" was perpetrated during the Hundred Years War, although the specifics of what it entailed I've never discovered.

I've read from Joost Merloo via Cecil Adams that the Romans used the goat method of tickling. Marco, our illustrious tickle fanatic from Italy who has all those clips and photos of the Canelli Renfaire tickling confirms that the goat's tongue was used in the Middle Ages in Italy (and I've seen it used 3 times in Mideval period films from Italy, French &Mexico)

Every 6 months this topic seems to come up. Do a search of the TMF and see what some of the past historical answers were. Quite frankly, I think it's about time all the conflicting reports on the subject were brought to a conclusion and A&E did a special on the topic once and for all.

 

[Myst]

Well, isn't this a little rut now? Two contradicting sources...

Sadly, I cannot go any further as i've yet to visit the library and i'm stuck with nothing but crud on the web.

Well oddjob, I assume people will follow your information due to your reputation concerning this stuff. I'll take my leave.

Oh, but before I do, does your name have ANYTHING whatsoever to do with the james bond villian oddjob? I'm just curious...always caught my eye when I was browsing over the threads.

Bye,
Myst

 

[Oddjob0226]

Don't leave, Myst.... with two people who are really really facinated by this type of thing, maybe an ultimate truth will come out somewhere. I don't know the "facts"any more than anyone else, just what my research yielded.... It may be a mystery we'll never unspool.

Yeah, can you believe it - the same source tells me that a woman was tickled in a Chinese palace, but also tells me it was only usedon men (he doesn't want his name to be used). What's a guy to think?

My name? Yes, that's where it comes from! Does yours have any relation to tiny droplets water suspended in the air?

 

[Myst]

Truth, is there truly a thing? SO MANY SOURCES, SO MUCH INFO!

We might as well build a TMF time machine, find the guy who first discovered tickling as a form of torture and ask him, cause I don't think we'll ever get anywhere this way XD

Oh, and about your name, glad I was right, goldfingers gotta be one of my favs.


Regarding my name, sadly no, I prefer Myst because i've always been a shady character...just there...but no one ever pays attention..also because it's the only neat-o name I could think of at the time.


Well, let us continue our search in the origins of tickling, lest our minds be tormented.

Signed,
Myst

P.S. Came across some more info, seems even the ancient Egyptians used tickling as a form of torture for men and women, mostly those who people believed were henchmen of evil gods etc.

Maybe some hieroglyphic will shed some light ^_^

 

[KoocheeKoo]

Still though, its a wonder to me that tickling could really be that effective. The worst you'd be able to do is force them to pass out eventually. Was the tickling really that bad or sensual that someone would easily break?

I remember a story on the local news when living in Mississippi during the mid-1990's in which a young woman had been robbed in her apartment, and apparently the assailants tortured her into giving him her ATM card pin number by tickling her. I also seem to recall a news story from the late 1970's here in metro Atlanta where a lady was abducted and tickle tortured until she gave the kidnappers some type of information they wanted (bank account info).

I have no doubts a very ticklish person could be tortured into giving information they possessed (especially someone who was afraid of being tickled). I once joked that my sister would admit to setting the Great Chicago fire to stop me from tickling her feet. After seeing that story on the news in Mississippi, my sis told me she'd rather be beaten anytime than tickled...she couldn't take it (would break much quicker from being tickled than beaten).

After the capture and rescue of prisoner of war Jessica Lynch last April, several of my friends and I were discussing the heartbreaking circumstances of a petite girl that age in the hands of a brutal enemy. One of my friends (Traci) also served in the U.S. army after high school...and like Jessica, Traci was a non-combat supply clerk. Just out of curosity, I asked Traci how much abuse/ torture she was trained to take at boot camp in 1983. She replied virtually none....at that age (19) or even now, she could easily be tortured into telling what she knew simply by tickling her (she's always been extremely ticklish, and told me there's no way she could withstand it for more than a few minutes, especially if restrained to a bed or table).

 

[MasterTKLR]

this has always been a fantasy of mine which I *hope* is true. I love the idea that (female) prisoners of war, specifically in Asian countries, get tickle tortured. I think of their feet in boots all day, warm, soft, and then an Asian woman coming, removing the shoes and...coochie coochie coo! Sending those soldier girls through the roof. lol. There have been evidence of devices found in Vietnam supposedly used for tickle torture, do a google seach - I wish there was more concrete information on this.
Master ~

 

[primetime]

i think it happens sometimes. whether it was used a lot back in the old days is unknwon. but i am pretty sure that someone, somewhere tickled tortured someone for information, or just to torment them.

i know some women who admitted to me that they would reveal any secret if their feet were tickled. i asked a friend if she would reveal top US Government secrets if her feet tickled and she replied a resounding yes! she said it wouldnt even take long as she would tell them before they touched her feet! you know, i really need to see just how ticklish those feet are.....

 

[KoocheeKoo]

primetime, that's why my friend Traci's statements give me such confidence that some women (and men) could be tickle tortured to obtain information; even those in government, military, spies). I've known Traci since she was 4, we grew up together...and knew she'd tell me the truth.

I also knew Traci was extremely ticklish as a teenager, and was very curious because she's petite, and enlisted in the army at 18 (about Jessica Lynch's age and size). She said there was no way she'd be able to withstand being tickled for more than a few minutes at most if bound and unable to escape (even today at age 38)....she'd either break or go insane (Traci was one of the girls who sometimes played the tickling game when we were kids, and she could never go more than 10-15 seconds without laughing uncontrollaby and giving up when her feet were tickled, no matter how hard she tried; so I believe her).

 

[NX01JB]

This is a really cool thread, wish there was more to it!

 

[dtrell]

not only is it cool...ITS BEEN DEAD FOR 18 MONTHS...sheesh...