The Patriots and the Inevitable Asterisk Debate

[Dave2112]

By now, I'm sure all sports fans are aware of the controversy over the Patriots allegedly filming the defensive signals of opposing teams.

We're going to hear a lot of "they cheated, so that's how they won!" from fans of teams that the Pats have beaten to get their three titles...and we're gonna hear a lot of "You're just a bunch of sour grapes whiners" from Pats fans.

So, let me say this as a fan of the New England Patriots.

If these allegations prove to be true, then this is worse than anything Mike Vick did, or that any individual player has ever done. It casts a pall over the entire league. There is certainly plenty of evidence at this point, but this post isn't about trying to prove or disprove these allegations. We're all going to have our theories and a lot of people are going to be convinced that they are right.

What this is about is what it will mean to the league and the game should all of this turn out to be true. For so long, we football fans have placed ourselves above the controversies of other games and leagues. We all knew there was steroid use in football, but at least it was far more controlled and far more stiffly punished than in baseball or the joke of "wrestling". We didn't have the pall of convenient "caution flags" so the golden boys of NASCAR could secure another victory. We had our players who did things that turned even our stomachs, but we told ourselves that it was few and far between considering all of the great athletes who, through the various functions of NFL Charities, give so much of their time and fortunes.

Should this all turn out to be true, what then? How do the Patriots championships and their dynasty stack up against the rest of NFL history? Even if the allegations are never "proven" beyond the shadow of a doubt, I fear there will still be an asterisk beside the Patriots titles, if not in public, then at least in the hearts and minds of many, many fans.

Again, assuming this is all true, then Bill Belichik has gone from offensive guru to pariah. It may even cast a pall on the brilliant career of Tom Brady. Yes, Tom has shown time and time again that he deserves his status as superstar. He's made brilliant plays and snatched games away from opponenets time and time again. But, what does it mean if the cards were stacked against the defense to begin with? Yes, of course knowledge does not equal execution, and the plays still have to be made, the people have to be in the right place and all. I get that. But, to use a NASCAR analogy, it's like giving one driver an engine with 100 more horsepower and then saying "but he still has to keep from crashing into the wall."

The stiffest penalties possible should be brought down upon the heads of the Patriots staff, coaches and maybe even players if they were involved. As I said when I started this post, this isn't about sour grapes. I am a fan of the New England Patriots. One of my fondest memories in life was watching what I still consider to be the greatest Super Bowl ever, the Pats victory over the heavily-favored Rams. With my best buddies at a gathering in Albany, we saw history being made. This memory now has a shadow of doubt cast over it. If, and I mean if in all fairness, this story proves itself to be true, I will gladly hand in my red, white and blue stripes of Pats fandom, with a heavy heart and a decidedly lackluster enthusiasm for this game, at least for the moment.

Were the titles worth it, Bill? If this is true, I can't imagine you'll have trouble sleeping at night, but a lot of fans will. Thanks.

 

[SamuelKhan]

Well written, 2112!

This is not a good year for sports. And yes, this is worse than Vick the Dogfighter, if it is true.

Let me say that I have finished talking about a certain player who set a certain record this year.

I am a Chiefs fan, and I am truly not happy with our CEO/Prez Carl Peterson., who has overstayed his welcome, as far as I'm concerned. The putrid performance against a sub-par Texans team is a harbinger of dark times in KC. Perhaps the Sheep that have been filling Arrowhead stadium will go back to being Steeler fans or whatever.

Derrick Thomas was a Pro-Bowl linebacker that was an instrumental part of KC's resurgence during the 1990's, but after his tragic death, it was apparent that he left his seven illegitimate children without a dime, and my fellow Chiefs fans are wondering why Michael Irvin got into the Hall of Fame, and not Derrick. Simple, Irvin may have been a total scumbag off the field but he has three rings. Thomas played for an also-ran where Joe Montana finished his career.

Anyways, Dave, your take on your team is a well written piece.

You aren't being a blind homer, and that's a rarity in the sports world among fans.

 

[tickledorange]

I thought the commission had already proven that they did it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...NJY9DubYF?slug=ap-nflspying&prov=ap&type=lgns

I guess they just have proof and haven't given the Pats a chance to prove their case.

 

[SamuelKhan]

Love the SIG!

 

[SamuelKhan]

I thought the commission had already proven that they did it.

Okay.

his is not a good year for sports. And yes, this is worse than Vick the Dogfighter.

Let me say that I have finished talking about a certain player who set a certain record this year.

I am a Chiefs fan, and I am truly not happy with our CEO/Prez Carl Peterson., who has overstayed his welcome, as far as I'm concerned. The putrid performance against a sub-par Texans team is a harbinger of dark times in KC. Perhaps the Sheep that have been filling Arrowhead stadium will go back to being Steeler fans or whatever.

Derrick Thomas was a Pro-Bowl linebacker that was an instrumental part of KC's resurgence during the 1990's, but after his tragic death, it was apparent that he left his seven illegitimate children without a dime, and my fellow Chiefs fans are wondering why Michael Irvin got into the Hall of Fame, and not Derrick. Simple, Irvin may have been a total scumbag off the field but he has three rings. Thomas played for an also-ran where Joe Montana finished his career.

Anyways, Dave, your take on your team is a well written piece.

You aren't being a blind homer, and that's a rarity in the sports world among fans.

Fixed it.

 

[Redmage]

Pardon a question here from one who doesn't really follow sports much.

Why is this sort of thing considered cheating? Sure I understand why a team wouldn't want their defensive signals getting out, but I don't see why they expect them to stay secret. I mean, they're literally flashing hand signals in the open where anyone with a pair of binoculars can see them, and then map a given signal to the behavior of the players on the field. It's almost like shouting across a room and then getting upset because someone "listened in."

So why does this rule even exist? It seems kind of pointless. It'd make more sense to change your signals from time to time, or even put radios with secure frequencies in the players' helmets, if you really want and expect to keep something like this secret.

 

[johnttickle]

Didn’t Miami do something like that last year to the Patriots?

Here is a one of many links on what Miami did to the patriots last year and is that any better.
http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/nfltoday/story/9881051

Also, I use to hear teams hiring lip readers to try and read the lips of the coaches sending in the plays, that is why you see coaches covering their months with the play sheets when they talk to players or the booth upstairs.

I don’t know how I really feel on this yet, but I don’t think New England is the only team looking for an edge by gathering intelligence on other teams.
Why can’t teams just go out and play the game, and try to win the game by playing a fair game. Just try to win by using good play calling and well trained players, why do teams feel they need an extra edge? Money, money, money, I believe that the power of the dollar has courted sports too much.

Sports in general have gotten out of control.

Aloha, John

 

[johnttickle]

Also, my roommate just brought up a good point to me.

When a team trades a player or acquires a free agent player, wouldn’t that player now help his new team by telling the new team about all his old teams signals and plays. Is that illegal?

The teams should be changing their signals each week; at least I would if I was a coach. But of course that would be hard too, due to how many plays teams have now, both on offence and defense.

Aloha, John

 

[maniactickler]

Im sure plenty of other teams have done this, or something like it. i dont think it has anything or maybe VERY little to do with affecting their championships. i think the whole thing is a bit overblown. not a very moral thing to do for sure though. i dont think the Pats need to this either. they have way too much talent and coaching as it is. this wasnt necessary.

 

[jaba]

Pardon a question here from one who doesn't really follow sports much.

It'd make more sense to change your signals from time to time, or even put radios with secure frequencies in the players' helmets, if you really want and expect to keep something like this secret.

thats what they do, Redmage. The coach sends a wireless radio signal play to the radio receiver of the helmet of the quarterback. thats why the coach puts a clipboard over his mouth when he calls the plays, so the opposing team cant lip read the play.....

 

[jaba]

Im sure plenty of other teams have done this, or something like it. i dont think it has anything or maybe VERY little to do with affecting their championships. i think the whole thing is a bit overblown. not a very moral thing to do for sure though. i dont think the Pats need to this either. they have way too much talent and coaching as it is. this wasnt necessary.

i'm thinking the same thing. I've heard that Patriots coach Belichik is a pompous arrogant ass, brushing past opposing players and coaches without shaking hands when his team loses, but I like the play of Tom Brady, and he and the other players shouldnt have this cloud overshadow their play.

 

[giggleygirl25]

the sad thing is it does make any assistant coaches that he hired that went on to be head coaches other places suspect (i.e. Charlie Weis at Notre Dame)...i feel bad for the players (at least the ones that didn't know about it) because Bellicheck has a talented team, he didn't need to resort to cheating to win (IF he did)

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Im sure plenty of other teams have done this, or something like it. i dont think it has anything or maybe VERY little to do with affecting their championships. i think the whole thing is a bit overblown. not a very moral thing to do for sure though. i dont think the Pats need to this either. they have way too much talent and coaching as it is. this wasnt necessary.

I agre with you that the talent is there. But if the talent is there, then why cheat??? And if you are so sure everyone else has done this then why hasn't anyone talked about it. We have been hearing that the Patriots have been doing things like this for the last couple of years. Remember when Green Bay first brought this to our attention??? The fact that it wasn't necessary is why the team and the coach should be punished.

 

[maniactickler]

I dont understand that if they have been suspected all these years, then why wasnt anything done then? i also think if a team gets that opportunity to get any little extra advantage, they will risk it. theres alot of money involved. and while i find Belichick a great coach, he appears to have the personality of a cinder block. id hate to be at a party with him.

 

[RobAce]

the sad thing is it does make any assistant coaches that he hired that went on to be head coaches other places suspect (i.e. Charlie Weis at Notre Dame)..

Perhaps we have found the reason Charlie Weis isn't quite stacking up as the offensive genius he was in New England.
Perhaps the Irish were duped into hiring him.
Maybe my beloved Irish will suffer with coach for years, not getting the help he once received in New England. As a fan of the Irish, I hope someone at his press conference asks him, or the Head of the AD at Notre Dame brings him in for a very "frank" conversation.

As for the Pats themselves, I have mixed feelings. Im not a fan of them, nor anyone else. I just love the game of pro football, and I have no team I like more than another. I have one feeling that cheating like this, is not a way to win honorable. They should be ashamed, and if so the coach should be fired and banned from ever coaching in the NFL again.
On the other hand, just because you know the play (which will give you an advantage) does not mean the players will react properly, block properly, follow the right route. It is an advantage but not the whole story. I mean those of us who play games like Madden, know that we could call the perfect defense, and yet that SOB will make that catch, or that one guy did not wrap up the tackle.

So I am kind of in the middle on this issue, until more facts are known. But I am leaning more toward the "FIRE HIM" side of it.

Rob

 

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I dont understand that if they have been suspected all these years, then why wasnt anything done then? i also think if a team gets that opportunity to get any little extra advantage, they will risk it. theres alot of money involved. and while i find Belichick a great coach, he appears to have the personality of a cinder block. id hate to be at a party with him.

So screw morality!!! That is the exact reason why the Patriots should be saddled with the loss. You cheat, you lose!!! They want the advantage that cheating brings, then take your losses at the expense of getting caught. You should have a loss of that game ( no win for the Jets ) and lose at no less than 3 draft picks. Then maybe we can discourage getting " a little extra advantage. "

 

[Redmage]

thats what they do, Redmage. The coach sends a wireless radio signal play to the radio receiver of the helmet of the quarterback. thats why the coach puts a clipboard over his mouth when he calls the plays, so the opposing team cant lip read the play.....

Well then what's the gripe? As I understand it the Pats were accused of videotaping these signals. But even if they could read his lips how would it help off a videotape later?

 

[jaba]

Well then what's the gripe? As I understand it the Pats were accused of videotaping these signals. But even if they could read his lips how would it help off a videotape later?

Formations on the practice field (and in actual games) give clues as to which play is likely to be initiated by the team. If you can associate a play called by the coach with a particular field formation, you can adjust your defense accordingly to better thwart the offensive play. So you videotape the coaches signal and the formation on the field at the time of the play, and you know in advance which offensive player to focus your defensive efforts on, (running back or receiver) and which direction the play is going.

 

[toyou444]

Here's the plain and simple of it folks:

Its against the rules.

All teams were warned, in writing, before the season.

The Pats did it anyway.

They should be punished.

----

The Steelers lost a third round draft pick one year for practicing in pads earlier than allowed by the league. The turned themselves in and were punished.

If this isn't a worse infraction by the Pats I'm going to have a hard time with the punishment.

~ toyou

 

[Redmage]

Sorry, my question wasn't clear. I understand why it's useful to know in advance what the other team is planning. What I don't understand is how a tape of the coach talking into a microphone is going to help then and there. By the time you get the tape back across the field, get a lip-reader to process it, and view it the play will be long over.

Formations on the practice field (and in actual games) give clues as to which play is likely to be initiated by the team. If you can associate a play called by the coach with a particular field formation, you can adjust your defense accordingly to better thwart the offensive play. So you videotape the coaches signal and the formation on the field at the time of the play, and you know in advance which offensive player to focus your defensive efforts on, (running back or receiver) and which direction the play is going.

 

[jaba]

Sorry, my question wasn't clear. I understand why it's useful to know in advance what the other team is planning. What I don't understand is how a tape of the coach talking into a microphone is going to help then and there. By the time you get the tape back across the field, get a lip-reader to process it, and view it the play will be long over.

it's not done then and there....its done days or weeks before the game....

lets say i am a football play stealing spy. On tuesday I go to "X" teams practice facility, and surreptiously film the coaches signals, and the actual formation on the field for that specific signal......

I go back to my home team with the spy tape on tuesday nite, before the Sunday game. During the actual game on sunday, we dont need to see the opposing coach calling the actual play, we just look at the formation on the field, and say ok, based on the field formation, the running back will probably get the ball, so lets focus our defensive efforts on the running back as opposed to the wide receiver. Reading the field formation for clues about an offensive play is done all the time without a spy tape, but if there is a unique formation on the field only observed previously on the spy tape, the defense can adjust to that offensive formation with the info received from the spy tape.

and if an assistant or offensive coordinator coach inadvertently yells out a play to his offense, just to make sure all of his guys are on the same page, a lip reader for the other team can pick up that info and just yell out the number of the running back or receiver that will likely get the ball, and the defensive focus immediately turns to that offensive player.

we're talking about a multi million dollar game, where any small advantage can result in a touchdown or field goal, and affect a point spread, causing some poor betting schmuck to jump out of a high rise window in vegas... 😛

 

[Redmage]

lets say i am a football play stealing spy. On tuesday I go to "X" teams practice facility, and surreptiously film the coaches signals, and the actual formation on the field for that specific signal....

But weren't the Pats caught taping during the actual game?

 

[Mz Chaos]

It's hard to believe that out of all the teams out there, the Patriots are the only team spying on another.

It was just dumb to use a tape recorder and dumber to get caught. They ought to use whatever method the other teams are using... those methods are obviously harder to detect but work just as well.

 

[CitY of MicA]

Pardon a question here from one who doesn't really follow sports much.

Why is this sort of thing considered cheating? Sure I understand why a team wouldn't want their defensive signals getting out, but I don't see why they expect them to stay secret. I mean, they're literally flashing hand signals in the open where anyone with a pair of binoculars can see them, and then map a given signal to the behavior of the players on the field. It's almost like shouting across a room and then getting upset because someone "listened in."

So why does this rule even exist? It seems kind of pointless. It'd make more sense to change your signals from time to time, or even put radios with secure frequencies in the players' helmets, if you really want and expect to keep something like this secret.

I'm not sure why the rule exists, but I'll speculate. The league wants to control the information the teams are receiving to ensure that there is a level playing field and that all teams have access to the same information. If the away team's headsets stop working and they can no longer contact coaches up in the booth, the home team is suppose to disenable theirs, as well. If there were no rules regarding how teams could use technology during a game, the home team could invest money in microphones underneath the visiting team's bench and in their locker room, as there are plenty of conversations that take place along the sidelines and during halftime that would be of value. There is a ton of game tape watching that takes place between games for coaches and players, but this is footage the league owns; every team would theoretically have equal access to it. Pictures of formations are taken during the game and show up shortly thereafter on the sidelines, but I imagine that is done by the league, too. The league undoubtedly wants to protect it's property, too, and wouldn't want tapes of games in existance other than ones shot by the league ($).

If a player or coach can look across to the opponent's sidelines and steal signals with their own eyes, so much the better. You couldn't prevent this any more than you could prevent a player in a card game from seeing an opponent's cards should they flash them or spill them across the table (if you were even looking to prevent it). In baseball, a man on second can look towards home plate to steal the catcher's signs and inform the batter of what pitch is coming, so the catcher has to take care to do things differently with a man on second. However, this precludes the home team from setting up surveilance equipment beyond the centerfield fence, or having personnel out there with binoculars as one of the NY teams did back in the 40s/50s (if memory serves).

Sorry, my question wasn't clear. I understand why it's useful to know in advance what the other team is planning. What I don't understand is how a tape of the coach talking into a microphone is going to help then and there. By the time you get the tape back across the field, get a lip-reader to process it, and view it the play will be long over.

Only the offensive coaches communicate with quarterbacks through a microphone and headset, as the league has only allowed this type of technology on the offensive side of the ball. They have considered the same on the defensive side, but it has never passed when the competition commitee has voted on it (it may now). Therefore, defensive play calls are going to be shouted or gestured from the defensive coordinator much of the time (you don't necessarily need a lip-reader to steal the signs), or it my come in via a substitution or the defensive captain going over to the sideline when they have more time. If you were able to videotape such signals and understand how they correspond to defensive alignments and blitz packages, you will know what's coming the next time you see them. Defensive signal calls are bound to be far less numerous than offensive ones and therefore even more prone to repetition. During the course of a game, I could record the signals and, after the defense is off the field, send the tape to the locker room. By the time of the ensuing series with the defense back on the field, I might know A) whether you're playing the run or the pass, B) where the safeties will be, and which of my wide receivers will be double-teamed, C) where your defensive help will come from, and most importantly D) when and if you're blitzing, which side of the line the blitz is coming from (which side is 'stacked' with extra personnel), and which cornerbacks will be left alone to cover receivers one on one. The Jets may change their signals come the second meeting with the Patriots (I would think they will now 😉 ), but they can't be expected to continually change signals during the course of a game. Ordinarilly, I would only do this if I thought the opposing team was on to the signals or cheating.

 

[CitY of MicA]

Didn’t Miami do something like that last year to the Patriots?

Here is a one of many links on what Miami did to the patriots last year and is that any better.
http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/nfltoday/story/9881051

Interesting find, John. I think the big difference is, as your article states, Miami wasn't doing anything against the rules. As I alluded to in my previous post, there's nothing wrong with figuring out the opposing team's play calling, snap count, or strategy through general observation. There's no way you could prevent that, and why would you want to? If a quarterback always comes tighter under center when it's a pass play and you notice it, it's all part of the game that you would exploit this information on the defensive side of the ball. Teams pour over game tapes each week to devise a game plan based on the opponents tendencies on the offensive and defensive side of the ball (and lets not forget special teams 🙄 ).

When a team trades a player or acquires a free agent player, wouldn’t that player now help his new team by telling the new team about all his old teams signals and plays. Is that illegal?

The teams should be changing their signals each week; at least I would if I was a coach. But of course that would be hard too, due to how many plays teams have now, both on offence and defense.

It's not against the rules for a player who is traded to reveal information about his previous team's signals or plays. And there is no way to prevent that even if one thought this was somehow detrimental to the game.

Teams could change their signals each week, even though, as you alluded to, that could be very confusing for the players. But in the case of what the Patriots were doing, they gave themselves an edge toward uncovering the Jet's signals during the course of the game. Who knows, they may have been successful. Casually observing a complicated signal would make it extremely difficult to decipher said signal. But videotaping the signal (and in this case it was a defensive signal- therefore, in all likelihood, a shouted or gestured signal) and watching it repeatedly, would give you a remarkable advantage.