The Zen Way Of Life....Whats Your Opinion?

[Meglomaniac]

I just bought Complete Idiots Guide To Zen Living and I was hooked not only on its readability but the ideas and beliefs of Zen. The whole mindset of living in the moment and appreciating what you have is exactly what im looking for in my life. What do you guys think?

 

[Meglomaniac]

😀 Well I think its looking very good so far. Im just enjoying the moment as it teaches...so simple, yet so complex.

 

[CheshireCatNY]

I've been a practicing Buddhist for 2 years now and I must say it just seems to make the most sense to me of all relgions.....although technically the only people that call it a religion are those that DON'T practice it.....its a philosophy....

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Christianity is a philosophy as well.

But this Zen thing is honestly no different, or, not much different, than what true Christians and other well-intentioned faiths set upon in a spiritual context.

Not to take away from Zen or anything. My opinion is, it's a slightly different path to the same enlightenment and self-betterment.

And, we could all use some more of that. 🙂

 

[CheshireCatNY]

According to almost all dictionary definitions, religion is a system of belief in a God or Gods. Christianity is a religion. Buddhism has no gods, miracles or leaps of faith and was started by an individual with a recorded and confirmed birthdate and deathdate, its a philosophy....they are two very different things. Not trying to start an argument or anything just stating a fact....

Of course the US Government considers it a religion.....which makes no sense since Wicca and Paeganism are still not recognized and do consider themselves to be religions.......

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

According to almost all dictionary definitions, religion is a system of belief in a God or Gods. Christianity is a religion. Buddhism has no gods, miracles or leaps of faith and was started by an individual with a recorded and confirmed birthdate and deathdate, its a philosophy....they are two very different things. Not trying to start an argument or anything just stating a fact....

Of course the US Government considers it a religion.....which makes no sense since Wicca and Paeganism are still not recognized and do consider themselves to be religions.......

Sigh...somehow I knew you'd go here. It was evident in your defense of Buddism before anyone else had replied. You seemed almost paranoid about it. You do this every time, you know. "Buddism isn't like..." and then you go into a brief little number about how it's different, and when I attempt to bridge a gap and show a common cause, you do this.

I'm not mad at you, my friend. Just a little disappointed.

What you believe would be a religion regardless of what the U.S has to say because...

" Religion

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

5. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

That's the definition of the religion.

Thereby the definition of "religion", especially the part that I made bold, clearly states that what you are doing and believe is just as much a religion as what I or anyone else is doing who is not of the Buddhist faith. Furthermore, you have temples. That technically, in the eyes of the law, makes you a religious order and congregation, even a sect, since just like christianity, there are different branches and differnet temples of/for buddism as well. If it was just one temple where everyone went then maybe it would be different. But thats not the case for you or me or anyone. It can't be seeing as how these beliefs are everywhere.

Your religion is structured, dare I say organized, just as much as anyone else's, at least on a superficial level. It needs to be to operate in this society, unfortunately.

This is why I made a clear distinction (and always do) between faith, spiritual life, and religion. We all have a "religion", but what you and I are talking about it (and what this thread is about actually) does not concern that aspect, yet you seem to always make it about religion and those differences.

We are all one in spirit, and thats not something I see a whole lot of people saying or admitting.

EDIT: As for my God, you seem to be hung up (alot of people are) on the idea that just because he lived a mortal life (in one form) that his mere existance is our belief and cause and that all of what we believe is dependant on his existance being proven and his miracles validated. It is what he did and said during that time on Earth, what he preached, which is of the greatest significance, and, ultimately, his sacrifice.

Its really no different than Buddha, really. Jesus is likened to a wise sage, because he is one, and thereby, he is just as legitimate as Buddha would be; and his messeges and words of wisdom just as rightious and very similar if not exactly the same.

 

[Meglomaniac]

Some good ideas here especially from V.Dracula and C.Cat. Now guys lets discuss the topic not argue about it. You 2 are very intelligent so put your ideas into a constructive forum...that is the Zen way after all! 😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I wasn't exactly arguing about anything and I was constructive in response, it didn't break down anything he had to say. This topic needs to be noted as a matter of spirituality, and not an extension of religion (free-spirited or otherwise). It's better we make that clear now and at least attempt to seperate the two for purposes of this discussion before your thread really takes off than to wait and have people have a potentially huge disagreement/religious debate later. I doubt that will happen with this particular topic. 🙂

I only have the interests of your otherwise well-intentioned thread, at heart. Hopefully people will take an interest in it. Best wishes.

 

[Meglomaniac]

Well I hope this nice thread doesnt turn into that Vlad so I guess you did well. Cheshire know of any good Buddhist or even better Zen temples in the city? PM me! :happy:

 

[CheshireCatNY]

Yeah....well......you still get tax exempt status!!! LOL And yeah I will admit that the line between philosophy and religion is a fine one indeed. Sorry I went off on a rant like that.....thats your job 😛 And for the record (not saying you implied it either) I've never tried to say my beliefs were any more or less valid than anyone elses. All belief systems are valid in their own ways....its the people that practice them that sometimes become mislead and jaded. You ever read "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh? In it, Buddha and Jesus converse on topics of spirtuality, morality and the nature of existence. Very enlightening....

Well I hope this nice thread doesnt turn into that Vlad so I guess you did well. Cheshire know of any good Buddhist or even better Zen temples in the city? PM me! :happy:

The closest one to me is in Elmhurst Queens, quite a drive and kind of a pilgrimage I try to make every few months...

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yeah....well......you still get tax exempt status!!! LOL And yeah I will admit that the line between philosophy and religion is a fine one indeed. Sorry I went off on a rant like that.....thats your job 😛 And for the record (not saying you implied it either) I've never tried to say my beliefs were any more or less valid than anyone elses. All belief systems are valid in their own ways....its the people that practice them that sometimes become mislead and jaded. You ever read "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh? In it, Buddha and Jesus converse on topics of spirtuality, morality and the nature of existence. Very enlightening....



The closest one to me is in Elmhurst Queens, quite a drive and kind of a pilgrimage I try to make every few months...

Would I be able to find this book you speak of in a typical book store in the religious section, or do you think this is something I'd have to special order? I know its something that would be hard for you to say, since you know nothing about my bookstores and what they do and do not carry, but this book you speak of gives me the sense that its a "new age" sort of deal.

Maybe it's in that section. I haven't looked there. I would imagine it should be in the religious section however.


(as for tax exempt status, don't all legal churches get that?)

 

[nessonite1]

(as for tax exempt status, don't all legal churches get that?)

I think that's decided on a local level...or at least state level.

 

[MistressValerie1]

Tax exemption is determined separately at the federal and state/local levels. Most religious organisations are federally tax exempt, but they may or may not be subject to state or local sales or property taxes.

Philosophical Buddhism and similar nontheistic belief systems are considered "religions" for First Amendment purposes. In the landmark Seeger case, the US Supreme Court ruled that a "a sincere belief, which in (one's) life fills the same place as a belief in God fills in the life of an orthodox religionist" is considered "religious training and belief" for the purposes of exemption from the military draft: Seeger v. US. A sociologist or theologian, of course, may define "religion" differently.

 

[Meglomaniac]

Elmhurst, Queens huh? Thats not far at all from me. Perhaps a visit is in order.

 

[Meglomaniac]

Sorry to double post but I didnt intend this to be a "religion thread" as either Vlad or Chesire said it might be interpreted as. I have respect for all religions but im not discussing any in this thread. Zen is more a way of life, a philosopy if you will. You dont worship the Buddha and ask him in times of need. So Buddhism might be interpreted as a religion (maybe in a way it is) but thats not what im shooting for...just to be clear! 🙂

 

[CheshireCatNY]

You really don't "worship" Buddha.....Sidhartha Guantanamo (The original Buddha's actual name) never considered himself to be a savior or any of that....just a teacher.....we're students of Buddha, now worshipers....

Even the term "Buddha" is a very relative and complicated concept.....although it was a title given to Sidhartha, its others defenitions include one who has achieved a state of perfect spiritual enlightenment in accordance with the teachings of Buddha or even just someone who believes in the existence of realities beyond human comprehension....

And yeah Vlad, I work at a Borders Bookstore and we carry it. They also have it on Amazon.com....

 

[Meglomaniac]

Ah! Ya know this Zen, Buddhism stuff is taking too long to learn! I mean theyre talking years here!! And they want you to sit in the same position for a load of time. I prefer my natural way...evil. Its more fun and it looks a whole lot cooler! :happy:

 

[CheshireCatNY]

Actually the term "Zen Buddhism is just one of many "schools" of the belief system:

Theravada / Hinayana (The great tradition or the way of the elders): Practised in Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, Cambodia and Laos and sticks firmly to the teachings of the Vinaya Pitaka. It teaches that Buddha was a man, a very special man, a very special person but nevertheless human.

Mahayana (little tradition): This is the one that I follow. Mahayan accommodated and change it’s religious beliefs and practises to the religious expectations and ideas of people. They moved away from considering monks as the only elite and beyond the monastery. The Mahayan interpreted and transformed the Buddha and his teachings into divine being of personal nature and transcendence.

Tibetan Buddhism: A mixture of Buddhism, Tantrism and the ancient Bon religion of Tibet. They have a vast collection of scriptures (tantras), which describe powerful rituals. Their teachers (Lamas) are said to be reincarnations of holy teachers who lived in earlier times. The spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhists is the Dalai Lama who is believed to be the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara. This is what most people think of when they visualize Buddhist monks who give up earthly pleasures and wordly possessions to live within the walls of a monastery or temple.

Zen Buddhism: Developed from CH’an a school of Chinese Buddhism formed in the Seventh century from a blend of Taoism (Chinese philosophy outlined in the TaoTeChing). It aims is to achieve harmony with all that is by pursuing inaction and effortless) and Mahayana teachings. The school stressed experience rather than learning. One of the heroes of Zen is the fierce – looking Indian monk Boddhidharma who brought Buddhism to China. Today Zen Buddhism is much more prominent in Japan where they depict the Buddha as a more saintly figure than a mere mortal.

Pure Land Buddhism: Buddhist sect founded by a Chinese monk called Hui Yuan (AD 334 –416). It focuses on one particular scripture which tells of a living Buddha who inhabits another world system, a far off place known as the Pure Land. The Buddha is Amitabha and his followers believe that through faith they will be transported there after death.

Nichiren Buddhism: A Japanese Buddhist reformer whose teachings are based on the Mahayana Sutra (scripture) known as the Lotus Sutra which contained the ultimate truth and that it could be compressed into a sacred formula NAMO MYOHO RENGE KYO (homage to the Lotus of the wonderful law). The central practice of Nichiren Buddhism is reciting the mantra of the namo myoho rengye kyo. Nichiren denounced all other forms of Buddhism and when the Mongols threatened Japan preached a fiery nationalism, urging the nation to convert to true Buddhism.

Well....there you have it in a nutshell.....hope its not too much for ya too take in...LOL Really the main overlaying belief at the heart of the philosophy is whats known as the "Four Noble Truths" about existence:

1. Dukkha: There is suffering. Suffering is an intrinsic part of life also experienced as dissatisfaction, discontent, unhappiness, impermanence.
2. Samudaya: There is a cause of suffering, which is attachment and desire (tanha).
3. Nirodha: There is a way out of suffering, which is to eliminate attachment and desire.
4. Magga: The path that leads out of suffering is called the Noble Eightfold Path.

I'm not even gonna get into the Noble Eightfold Path....I'll be here all night....LOL

 

[Featherfall]

You really don't "worship" Buddha.....Sidhartha Guantanamo (The original Buddha's actual name) never considered himself to be a savior or any of that....just a teacher.....we're students of Buddha, now worshipers....

Even the term "Buddha" is a very relative and complicated concept.....although it was a title given to Sidhartha, its others defenitions include one who has achieved a state of perfect spiritual enlightenment in accordance with the teachings of Buddha or even just someone who believes in the existence of realities beyond human comprehension....

Indeed, I've read somewhere that one of the things Sidhartha said on his death bed something to the effect everyone had the potential to be Buddha, and I further read that this was supported by this phrase;

"If you meet the Buddha kill the Buddha; if you meet the patriarch, kill the patriarch. Free of everything, bound by nothing, live your life as it was given to you."

In other words, be your own Buddha, live your own life in the heat of the moment, free of attachments. (At least that's how I inturrpreted it, Buddhists are free and more then welcome to correct my ignorance, and possible historical mistakes).

Having said that, I can understand the appeal the life style would have to some, but it's not for me. I'm a loving being, and since I personally believe that one of the conditions of love is attachment, I'm also a clingy one 😀 . I'm way to attached to friends, family, and life.

In hindsight, I wouldn't make a good Jedi.