Tickle enthusiasts and the Spectrum

[xionking]

Here's something facinating. I was chatting to a dom recently, Mistress Zoe who made an interesting observation re her clientelle who are into tickling.

She mentioned that 90% of her clients have been male, prefer being tickled than tickling, had a particular focus on post-orgasm tickling and all appeared to be on the spectrum.

 

[TMF Jeff]

I emailed Zoe, as mentioned below, and I am editing her response into my reply so that people see it immediately rather than having to dig for it -

Hi there,

Yes I am the Mistress who spoke with xionking.

I was talking with him about his fetish and he asked a lot of questions and wanted to know what my other tickle fetish clients were like. I said that quite often they are male, but not always. Many of them have disclosed to me that they are on the spectrum which is the only reason I know that. I would never presume to know whether someone was neuro-typical or not and would not judge them negatively if they were. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being on the spectrum and didn’t use that term in a bad way, just as a descriptor. I actually believe that quite often people who are on the spectrum, or spectrum-adjacent, have enviable skills in various areas that serve them well. I am in no way assuming that all people who like being tickled are on the spectrum or even that there is a strong correlation. I only mentioned it in answer to his question because it is something I have been told by many of my tickle clients over the years. I have worked as a Mistress for nearly 6 years and it is a pattern I have noticed, but it doesn’t fit everyone. I did not intend to hurt anyone’s feelings or cause any animosity. My humble apologies if my words appeared callous or insensitive. It was never my intention.

Thank you for letting me know that I was the subject of debate on your forum. If you feel it is worth sharing my response please do so. I hope that hearing from me might clear some things up.

Kind regards,

Mistress Zoe

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Mistress Zoe sounds like she is not friendly to this community.

I kinda gotta side with Mistress Zoe on this one. Even pals from here I talk with offsite all agree with that a significant chunk of ticklefuckers have social skills that can at the most politely be described as maybe "spectrum adjacent".

 

[LeatherRebell]

I kinda gotta side with Mistress Zoe on this one. Even pals from here I talk with offsite all agree with that a significant chunk of ticklefuckers have social skills that can at the most politely be described as maybe "spectrum adjacent".

I don't think that your personal observations of a group of people that you've talked to and read comments from online, who probably represent less than half of the community anyway, qualify you to dismiss a 'significant chunk' of tickle fetishists as being on or adjacent to the spectrum.

 

[Wolf]

I kinda gotta side with Mistress Zoe on this one. Even pals from here I talk with offsite all agree with that a significant chunk of ticklefuckers have social skills that can at the most politely be described as maybe "spectrum adjacent".

A lack of social skills can be attributed to any number of factors. It's a bit intellectually lazy to just start tossing up references to "the spectrum".

 

[TMF Jeff]

I kinda gotta side with Mistress Zoe on this one. Even pals from here I talk with offsite all agree with that a significant chunk of ticklefuckers have social skills that can at the most politely be described as maybe "spectrum adjacent".

Are you talking about people you've actually met, or just people you've seen online? Because online is hardly a good barometer. Frankly, people could judge your social skills pretty harshly if all they had to go by was your presence here.

Calling people "ticklefuckers" for one thing, is pretty questionable. And in a post of yours that I had to delete the other day, you called a guy "you fuck" because he made a post you didn't like. If I used those examples to describe you, you wouldn't come off very well.

Speaking for myself, I've personally met a LOT of people from this community, face to face, and almost all of them are fun, highly social people with amazing personalities. Are there a few weirdos? Sure. But not any more than you'd find in any group of people I'd think. Probably fewer than you'd find in some other fetish communities.

It's a snap judgement and not very fair, and again this Mistress Zoe shouldn't be making those kinds of generalizations about our community and then accepting them as clients. She probably shouldn't even be thinking those things because of what her role in the encounter is going to be. And she definitely should not be saying those things to others.

I don't care for it and I'd advise that nobody use her as their domme because she's extremely unprofessional to be doing that, and inside her head she's having ugly thoughts about people who are going to make themselves extremely vulnerable with her. They're supposed to be able to trust her.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

I don't think that your personal observations of a group of people that you've talked to and read comments from online, who probably represent less than half of the community anyway, qualify you to dismiss a 'significant chunk' of tickle fetishists as being on or adjacent to the spectrum.

Maybe. But when you see the same thing, over and over again, for almost 15 years in my case, some you begin to see a pattern.

Are you talking about people you've actually met, or just people you've seen online? Because online is hardly a good barometer. Frankly, people could judge your social skills pretty harshly if all they had to go by was your presence here.

Calling people "ticklefuckers" for one thing, is pretty questionable. And in a post of yours that I had to delete the other day, you called a guy "you fuck" because he made a post you didn't like. If I used those examples to describe you, you wouldn't come off very well.

Perhaps. But see the thing is when so many people are all seeing the same exact things from dozens/hundreds of individuals for well over a decade, it's harder to chalk up as ransom instances of unseasoned social skills. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that most people reading this thread, regardless of how rudely I'm dancing around it, know exactly what I'm talking about. That alone should be a pretty big indication.

 

[TMF Jeff]

FYI - I've emailed a link to this to Mistress Zoe, so she has an opportunity to refute or defend her statement. If her words are going to be repeated out of context like this, I think she has a right to respond.

 

[TMF Jeff]

Maybe. But when you see the same thing, over and over again, for almost 15 years in my case, some you begin to see a pattern.




Perhaps. But see the thing is when so many people are all seeing the same exact things from dozens/hundreds of individuals for well over a decade, it's harder to chalk up as ransom instances of unseasoned social skills. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that most people reading this thread, regardless of how rudely I'm dancing around it, know exactly what I'm talking about. That alone should be a pretty big indication.

Can I get an answer to my question - are these people you've personally met, or just people whose posts you've read? Because I have actually literally met, in person, hundreds of members of our community and had no impression like what you're describing.


Edit: Meaning that a "significant chunk" have social skills issues that make them seem to be "on the spectrum."

 

[Lisatheticklee]

all appeared to be on the spectrum.

Assuming Jeff does hear back and she did say this, I'd love to know how she figured this out. While her clients were waiting did she have them answer a questionnaire or do some sort of test? Or is she one of those people who just "knows" when someone's on the spectrum because they happen to act in a slightly different way. Either way it's a pretty bold statement to make.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Can I get an answer to my question - are these people you've personally met, or just people whose posts you've read? Because I have actually literally met, in person, hundreds of members of our community and had no impression like what you're describing.

Yes, I have indeed met some of these people. Craigslist and Fetlife are both things that exist to assist with irl meetings. In a variety of different ways, I have come into significant contact with Tickle Fetish Americans who have struck me as having a noticeable lack of social grace.

I'm looking forward to whatever response you get from the Mistress.

 

[The Internet]

With all due respect to Comfort Eagle, who I think is a great poster, you complain more about this place than anyone, and you're here more than anyone. (or in some of our cases, as much!) If there's another fetish group that's better, you should go ride off into the sunset, because clearly you're unhappy here, day after day. No one is twisting your arm to stay here. But you'd have to twist my arm to hang around day after day at a place and with people I have nothing but contempt for. Do you have another fetish that you can compare this community to? You have this relentless bitterness that on one hand, yeah, sure I get, to an extent. But jesus christ, we get it, there are some dips here. And it displeases you. We all displease you. Got it.

But you know.....it ain't ALL bad. And it's what we make it.

I intentionally put up a couple of dopey, happy-go-lucky, positive threads in this part of the Forum recently just to see what would happen. And sure enough, today, the biggest flamers, and gripers, and snark-meisters all avoided it....but are all over threads like these. (and of course none of them make their own threads, god forbid!).

C.E., just to give you some perspetive - from the very first time I posted in this part of the Forum (under this screenname), you were snarky to me. I made some thread, can't remember which, and you - the very first comment - made some dig about the way I formatted my post! I guess I use too many dot-dot-dots or something. Another time it was some dig about using embeds. You know.....this shit's real important. I just laughed it off,but I mean....that's you in a nutshell.

So check yourself, brother. We get it. You don't like anybody. Duly noted. You don't have to say it again, because you've been saying it every day for two years.

No hard feelings, man. I love ya, I like your contributions to the Forum, save this shit.

As far as what a domme says......who fucking cares?!!!! lol

 

[The Internet]

PS: I don't want to leave a bad taste in the mouth.....i want to highlight the OTHER Comfort Eagle that I know and love and that's when you LIKE something! I wrote a story a few months ago, under a different screenname (I know you would never comment on something you thought I wrote, C.E., lol).....anyways.....I write this demented politically-themed story.....and in big capital letters, the first comment was his: "HOLY FUCK, THIS RULES!"

Bro, that was like a badge of honor! Especially coming from you! Thanks, man. 🙂

 

[Comfort Eagle]

With all due respect to Comfort Eagle, who I think is a great poster, you complain more about this place than anyone, and you're here more than anyone. (or in some of our cases, as much!) If there's another fetish group that's better, you should go ride off into the sunset, because clearly you're unhappy here, day after day. No one is twisting your arm to stay here. But you'd have to twist my arm to hang around day after day at a place and with people I have nothing but contempt for. Do you have another fetish that you can compare this community to? You have this relentless bitterness that on one hand, yeah, sure I get, to an extent. But jesus christ, we get it, there are some dips here. And it displeases you. We all displease you. Got it.

But you know.....it ain't ALL bad. And it's what we make it.

I intentionally put up a couple of dopey, happy-go-lucky, positive threads in this part of the Forum recently just to see what would happen. And sure enough, today, the biggest flamers, and gripers, and snark-meisters all avoided it....but are all over threads like these. (and of course none of them make their own threads, god forbid!).

C.E., just to give you some perspetive - from the very first time I posted in this part of the Forum (under this screenname), you were snarky to me. I made some thread, can't remember which, and you - the very first comment - made some dig about the way I formatted my post! I guess I use too many dot-dot-dots or something. Another time it was some dig about using embeds. You know.....this shit's real important. I just laughed it off,but I mean....that's you in a nutshell.

So check yourself, brother. We get it. You don't like anybody. Duly noted. You don't have to say it again, because you've been saying it every day for two years.

No hard feelings, man. I love ya, I like your contributions to the Forum, save this shit.

As far as what a domme says......who fucking cares?!!!! lol

Yeah accurate, though the size and fact that this is probably the number one place as far as creative or video content goes is why I'll likely never just be done with the board. I want to go back to the point about seeing a lot of the "same kind of" problems for a long time, and at a certain point it feels like it wouldn't kill anyone to talk the same way they would on somewhere like Reddit or Facebook. I'll reference another similar shitfit I had in a recent thread about someone (who later said he intended to troll, whether or not he actually was or was trying to save face I can't say for sure) about touching strangers, and any other website or social media outlet is going to give you the same kind of response. Maybe it's just too many years of imageboards warping my sense of netiquette but it seems like at some point, there needs to be some sense of "Ok you need to at least try to act like you're understanding other people here..." instead of coddling or ignoring other peoples worst instincts.

PS: I don't want to leave a bad taste in the mouth.....i want to highlight the OTHER Comfort Eagle that I know and love and that's when you LIKE something! I wrote a story a few months ago, under a different screenname (I know you would never comment on something you thought I wrote, C.E., lol).....anyways.....I write this demented politically-themed story.....and in big capital letters, the first comment was his: "HOLY FUCK, THIS RULES!"

Bro, that was like a badge of honor! Especially coming from you! Thanks, man. 🙂

Hey thanks! I believe I remember that and if it's what I'm thinking of it did rule.

 

[S1]

Maybe. But when you see the same thing, over and over again, for almost 15 years in my case, some you begin to see a pattern.

Perhaps. But see the thing is when so many people are all seeing the same exact things from dozens/hundreds of individuals for well over a decade, it's harder to chalk up as ransom instances of unseasoned social skills. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that most people reading this thread, regardless of how rudely I'm dancing around it, know exactly what I'm talking about. That alone should be a pretty big indication.

I have a child on the spectrum. Like a real diagnosis. It is no picnic and it's not the same as your highly anecdotal observations over a number of years of some tickle festishists being "spectrum adjacent"

You've made an intellectually lazy comment and you're being called on it. Deservedly so.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

I have a child on the spectrum. Like a real diagnosis. It is no picnic and it's not the same as your highly anecdotal observations over a number of years of some tickle festishists being "spectrum adjacent"

You've made an intellectually lazy comment and you're being called on it. Deservedly so.

I agreed with someone elses perception, and followed up with why I thought so.

 

[S1]

I agreed with someone elses perception, and followed up with why I thought so.

Pardon me. You agreed with someone else's perception and, in sharing your reasoning, managed to be both offensive and intellectually lazy.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Pardon me. You agreed with someone else's perception and, in sharing your reasoning, managed to be both offensive and intellectually lazy.

Ok.

 

[The Internet]

Yeah accurate, though the size and fact that this is probably the number one place as far as creative or video content goes is why I'll likely never just be done with the board. I want to go back to the point about seeing a lot of the "same kind of" problems for a long time, and at a certain point it feels like it wouldn't kill anyone to talk the same way they would on somewhere like Reddit or Facebook. I'll reference another similar shitfit I had in a recent thread about someone (who later said he intended to troll, whether or not he actually was or was trying to save face I can't say for sure) about touching strangers, and any other website or social media outlet is going to give you the same kind of response. Maybe it's just too many years of imageboards warping my sense of netiquette but it seems like at some point, there needs to be some sense of "Ok you need to at least try to act like you're understanding other people here..." instead of coddling or ignoring other peoples worst instincts.




Hey thanks! I believe I remember that and if it's what I'm thinking of it did rule.

Bro....you are AWESOME!

AWESOME!

Do you know I woke up just to DELETE my posts? I felt so bad. If there's someone I WOULDN'T want to leave the board, you're definitely one. You've always been very generous with us, you shared your clips for free when you could have sold them. You are an intelligent person who has great points and perspectives. The Forum is better for having you around. Your response is in itself a lesson to (at least) me how NOT to butt heads.

Again, I DO understand where you're coming from when you gripe (I started posting here as nontkl, pretty much the first month or so of the TMF; I definitely remember when the forum had more energy,and also civility.) (Though NOTHING will ever be as negative as the old alt.tickling board in the 90s!) And there's times when some obnoxious member DOES need to be put in their place, and when that time comes, there's no one better to do it than you, me, and some of the other sharp-tongued masters of bluntness! And full disclosure: I've been almost completely banned from the board many times and can be one of the nastiest, rudest, most mean-spirited members of the Forum. Every single day I make a real nasty comment and then immediately delete it. Sometimes the mods delete it for me! lol. I am constantly struggling to find the balance. I'm certainly not all sunshine and sweetness.

PS: Yeah, that was the story, lol. You know the one I'm talking about. 😉 I wasn't sure how it was going to be received at all, and your comment took away all the anxiety. Anyone could have flamed me after that. I thought. "oh, well....if Comfort Eagle liked it, then it must be ok!" 🙂

Back to the OP: I agree with what Jeff was saying: she's probably dealing more with bottoms. I wouldn't take her word for summing up the entire Tickling community. Obviously she's not meeting all the female ticklees, for instance. I, for one, wouldn't go to a domme when I'd be looking for a sub.

 

[turtleboy]

A lack of social skills can be attributed to any number of factors. It's a bit intellectually lazy to just start tossing up references to "the spectrum".

This. I've worked in this field for close to 20 years (still do a little bit outside of producing vids) and have seen many people fail to get a diagnosis despite having quite noticeable social skills issues. Labelling people (or oneself) as an 'Aspy' or a 'Sperg' if they display even the slightest degree of social awkwardness or unusual behaviour, has become an internet trend lately as cultural awareness of autism has grown. Likewise the tendency for movies and TV shows to pump out 'autistic' protagonists with super-human levels of intelligence and an incredibly rude or socially odd persona (e.g. Hannibal, Sherlock etc) is a really irritating trend that I would like to see die soon. It's misleading and distorts public perception of what it actually means to be on the spectrum.

The bottom line is that many people display social awkwardness, shyness, avoidance of real life social situations and/or difficulty getting along with others. Many people also have very limited, specific interests without ever meeting the criteria for a diagnosis of autism. That's because they are essentially human traits that we all possess to some degree, and some more than others (men more than women on the whole). A diagnosis on the other hand, is about the combination of factors, the extent to which they are seen together, and the stage in the person's development where they first appeared. I have known and worked with many very intelligent, articulate, talkative, confident, friendly and interesting people with autism over the years. I've also know many socially inept, shy and/or downright strange people who wouldn't ever get a diagnosis.

It doesn't help that self-diagnosing various conditions has become a thing now too.

 

[SoleOfTickling]

Just because I'm shy and socially awkward doesn't mean I'm on the spectrum.

 

[TMF Jeff]

I received a response from Zoe, which she invited me to share -

Hi there,

Yes I am the Mistress who spoke with xionking.

I was talking with him about his fetish and he asked a lot of questions and wanted to know what my other tickle fetish clients were like. I said that quite often they are male, but not always. Many of them have disclosed to me that they are on the spectrum which is the only reason I know that. I would never presume to know whether someone was neuro-typical or not and would not judge them negatively if they were. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being on the spectrum and didn’t use that term in a bad way, just as a descriptor. I actually believe that quite often people who are on the spectrum, or spectrum-adjacent, have enviable skills in various areas that serve them well. I am in no way assuming that all people who like being tickled are on the spectrum or even that there is a strong correlation. I only mentioned it in answer to his question because it is something I have been told by many of my tickle clients over the years. I have worked as a Mistress for nearly 6 years and it is a pattern I have noticed, but it doesn’t fit everyone. I did not intend to hurt anyone’s feelings or cause any animosity. My humble apologies if my words appeared callous or insensitive. It was never my intention.

Thank you for letting me know that I was the subject of debate on your forum. If you feel it is worth sharing my response please do so. I hope that hearing from me might clear some things up.

Kind regards,

Mistress Zoe

 

[duderino84]

When I think of what people call the spectrum, I think rigid, awkward, visibly overly self-controlled, kind of paranoid. Some of us look a bit like this. But I wouldn't think that puts them on an actual diagnosed spectrum, just a type of person who feels out of control enough to pay Mistress Zoe, someone who gets paid to make people cum, who thinks of herself as a mental health professional. Apparently.

Edit: she put some PR crock, so I'll adjust my take on her. If people *TELL* you in confidence they're on the spectrum, maybe you should have the respect to avoid spreading it around as public knowledge not to lead to some bullshit generalization that infests our community.

THANKS
- Duderino

PS: LIFE SUCKS SCUM-FUC!

 

[LadyKilroy]

I have had several friends on the spectrum over the years, and if there's one thing I can say for it, there just -is- no way to generalize the Autism spectrum, which is what makes it so hard to diagnose. No two people I know have had it manifest the same way. Some are socially skilled, but just tire of people in large groups, some lack conventional social skills but are great conversationalists and will seek people out. Some crave physical contact, some hate it, and for some, it's very specific what they do and don't like. The list goes on and on. It really is the last thing somebody should try and group people together over, because while there are some commonalities, it honestly -can't- be generalized. Certainly not by people who lack the medical training to know.

Also, I have met a lot of people who have simply never been taught by society how to treat other people. It's not just an issue of social skills, it's outright ignorance or unawareness of other people's feelings. And while that -is- one of the things that can manifest in somebody on the spectrum, it is -far- from unique to people with Autism. There are a lot of people out there who simply don't consider the feelings of others when they act. It bothers me to no end to see people who have not been diagnosed and who are not medical professionals repeatedly try to use any sort of non-neurotypicality as an excuse for bad behavior. It does not do any favors for the Autism community to have people bring it up any random time somebody simply cannot behave themselves.

It is one thing to bring up in conversation that a lot of people who enjoy the stimulus of being tickled have, in your experience, been on the spectrum. It is another entirely to extrapolate from that that -this- is the explanation for everything ranging from poor social skills to outright bad judgment in a fetish community. You may find one, both, or even none of these to be questionable, but they are, in fact, two entirely different things, and saying one does not imply the other. Anything else I could say has already been better put by Turtleboy.

 

[Lisatheticklee]

Edit: she put some PR crock, so I'll adjust my take on her. If people *TELL* you in confidence they're on the spectrum, maybe you should have the respect to avoid spreading it around as public knowledge not to lead to some bullshit generalization that infests our community.

I just wonder under what circumstances would they disclose it. But like you said, even if they do trust her enough to tell her this, how can she justify spreading it like that?