Tickle Torture ? For Lers

[chrisheaven]

just cannot stand it-neither van my gf--the main reason why we LOVE it all so much

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with some of the folks that have said "if a lee likes it then it doesn't qualify as torture". It is torture its the part of the act that the lees I have spoken too have expressed that turns them on about being tickled. Just because they like it doesnt soften the fact that indeed it is torturous to them.

Let's face it..we Lers secretly know this..that is why we enjoy the power.. 😛oke3:

 

[Ticklish_tigres]

Heavenly

I like the fun erotic part of being ticklish...like Mastertanks example, lol.

If the 'lee ain't havin' fun, I ain't havin' fun either!

The more enjoyment I can give my 'lee, the more enjoyment I experience.
If I can give my 'lee multiple orgasms while making her laugh by tickling her, I'm in heaven, even if for some reason we have to stop before I get off.

I'm just wired that way, I guess. 😉

 

[Mastertank1]

Is there any chance

I like the fun erotic part of being ticklish...like Mastertanks example, lol.

you could come to Pittsburgh for a visit?

 

[BikerBadBoy]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with some of the folks that have said "if a lee likes it then it doesn't qualify as torture". It is torture its the part of the act that the lees I have spoken too have expressed that turns them on about being tickled. Just because they like it doesnt soften the fact that indeed it is torturous to them.

Let's face it..we Lers secretly know this..that is why we enjoy the power.. 😛oke3:

That is definitely what we "lers" love about it.......enjoying the power we have over the "lees". Even though they enjoy it, it can be torturous.

 

[Amnesiac]

I like what ShadowTklr said about "torture" being an inappropriate substitute for "excruciating pleasure." That seems to be a more accurate description.

What others have been saying here before me pretty much sums it up: that it's a type of pleasure that can be torturous because of it's intensity.

seanc130
Most people use the term "torture" in the tickling fiction (I use it myself), because that's an easy way to describe in one word the extreme sensations the 'ler is applying. Terms like "agony" and "anguish" are used as pronouns because literary theory indicates that repeating the same words over and over throws off the reading rhythm and also detracts from creativity. So even though we're repeatedly hinting at "extreme tickling" we use words synonymous with pain because

1. We've already established the torturous relationship with extreme tickling
2. These terms are related to and indicative of the term "torture" and its applications
3. They prevent repetitive word usage.

Another reason for using misleading terms like "agony" and "anguish" and "torture" is because of the setting in most tickling fiction. Virtually 90% of the stories written involve a helpless person at the mercy of someone tickling them mercilessly. This even goes so far as to include dungeons, cages, prisons, etc. and all forms of reasons like punishment, corrective conditioning, interrogation, and even plain old sadistic enjoyment. But, like in all arousing fiction, its very exaggerated because anyone who's tickled anyone in real-life knows that ticklish people can cut it off if they really want. The scenarios in tickling stories require suspension of disbelief to work.

So why do people write them? I figure it depends on the person or persons. Apparently there are a lot of people who seem to fixate on the idea of tickling as punishment for bitchiness or gender-oriented sense of insecurity. And real-life ler-lee friends and couples often use the dom-sub/powerful-powerless scenario to create a mood and a scene for the activity. I don't get into this, which is why I don't write as much tickling fiction as I'd like: I keep trying to find out different ways of creating tickling scenarios without resorting to this, but convention is often so strong I find it hard.

I think we're all in agreement that a lee enjoys being tickled because otherwise they woudn't be 'lees...they'd be "ticklish people". For example, I drove Sadira mad at MTP and broke her three times (or was it two?...damn short-termmemory), but I couldn't have even gotten a giggle if she didn't like it or wasn't comfortable. And unlike many 'lers, I didn't get off on being powerful or her being powerless (because we both were aware of who was in charge), but rather on how much I could make it tickle. In this case, this doesn't make me a dom, but a classical sadist: I wanted her to endure the most intense tickling sensations possible for as longest possible time. And that time was over when she called "Red"...just because they like it doesn't mean they don't have limits.

...except Prinny.

I think the ACTUAL torture aspect, which you see mostly applying in attempted real-life non-cons to be an authentic power issue by a legitimate sadist...not strictly a tickling thing.

 

[sabaki]

Ah... thank you for showing me what I'm up against. It's a strong viewpoint; good, let nobody accuse me of making a straw man.

But, like in all arousing fiction, its very exaggerated because anyone who's tickled anyone in real-life knows that ticklish people can cut it off if they really want.

False. I've been subject to prolonged non-consensual tickling; I laughed, and I couldn't cut it off. It was torture, in the dictionary sense. Not in the sense of "pleasure overload."

Some people can train themselves to ignore tickling, true. Maybe everyone can, with practice. I would never want to.

I think we're all in agreement that a lee enjoys being tickled because otherwise they woudn't be 'lees...they'd be "ticklish people".

For me, "Lee" is just a blanket term for anyone we're considering as the bottom subject to tickling. But if you want to take "lee" to mean "someone who enjoys tickling" as part of its definition, then I guess I can't be a lee anymore. In that case you're right, by definition.

But why can't we include everyone, ticklish people who like it and ticklish people who hate it? I think there's room for all...

I think the ACTUAL torture aspect, which you see mostly applying in attempted real-life non-cons to be an authentic power issue by a legitimate sadist...not strictly a tickling thing.

Two questions. What is an "attempted" non-con? And, are you implying that there is there something wrong with this aspect?

 

[Amnesiac]

False. I've been subject to prolonged non-consensual tickling; I laughed, and I couldn't cut it off. It was torture, in the dictionary sense. Not in the sense of "pleasure overload."
-Sabaki

You ever try to tickle someone who was distraught, or miserable, or really fucking pissed off? Sometimes all a ler has to do is poke when it's not wanted and a laugh is the LAST thing they'll get. Or when the lee has had enough, called the safeword, and the 'ler doesn't stop, anger and fear can set in, interfering with the tickling.

But why can't we include everyone, ticklish people who like it and ticklish people who hate it? I think there's room for all...

Technically, you're right in the sense of what the suffix means. However, I was distinguishing between a willing lee and someone who is ticklish who has not necessarily submitted to being tickled. When we talk about 'lees on the forum, we usually mean someone who has allowed themselves to be the position of 'lee.

Two questions. What is an "attempted" non-con? And, are you implying that there is there something wrong with this aspect?

Attempoted non-con could be anything indicative of one person inflicting sensations on an unwilling subject. It doesn't have to be tickling related because in other avenues non-con is expressed in rape, torture, mutilation, and other practices which can be and often are labeled assault under law. In tickling, because it doesn't necessarily involve any of these practices, are "attempted" because, unlike the aforementioned activities, don't require violent injury for subjugation (a woman being tickled is less likely to laugh if you've broken her arm or kneecap to subdue her...a woman tickled against her will when tied down on the bed is likely to scream for help or bite).

Personalities that are interested in non-consensul participation for these activities are bonafide sadists with boderline if not full-on sociopathic tendencies. And the reason tickling non-cons are not necessarily so is because non-consensual participation in the other fields is already accomplished by those who want it...people who want non-con tickling cannot be as violent or aggressive as the others.

Now there is the exception of non-consensual tickling that you may have mentioned, but chances are it wasn't a complete stranger you've never met before. Even if it wasn;t your idea and you were powerless to fight back, if it was someone you didn;t feel SOME innate familiarity with, you wouldn't have laughed.

 

[sabaki]

You ever try to tickle someone who was distraught, or miserable, or really fucking pissed off?

No, but people have tried it with me. I didn't laugh because it was just a single poke or a quick tickle. I was able to hold it in. But if they had taken the time to subdue me first and tie me down securely, and they went about it patiently over a long period of time, they would have broken me. No question.

Or when the lee has had enough, called the safeword, and the 'ler doesn't stop, anger and fear can set in, interfering with the tickling.

That's because it's a breach of trust. The anger and fear that naturally follow are out-of-scene. But crossing limits needs not be a breach of trust. It might be conducted in the context of an enormous amount of trust. Not everyone plays with safewords.

The right kind of fear amplifies ticklishness and is exciting and good. It's erotic fear, the in-scene variety.

[...]When we talk about 'lees on the forum, we usually mean someone who has allowed themselves to be the position of 'lee.

You are making a very big assumption: that someone would not ever willingly submit to something that they hate. I don't think that's true at all. In fact, I have met 'lees here other than myself who want to submit to tickle torture that is real torture as I described earlier in this thread.

The non-con question I asked went in the wrong direction. I'm not supporting NC play at all; I'm strongly against it. But it seems to me that you are conflating NC and torture. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but don't state it as fact. Don't say "we're all in agreement..."

Even if it wasn't your idea and you were powerless to fight back, if it was someone you didn;t feel SOME innate familiarity with, you wouldn't have laughed.

It was a babysitter whom I felt no connection towards. I was 3. And anyway, your contention was simply that people can cut off tickling if they want to. It had no qualifier about familiarity.

 

[kis123]

Sorry Amnesiac but I have to disagree with you on one point; not everyone can cut off their ticklishness when they're angry or fearful. To some of us it is a pure neurological response to the tickling. In other words, we'd laugh whether we wanted to or not. It's happened to me more times than I ever wanted to go through-I absolutely hate to be tickled in a negative situation. It's the ultimate power play and I hate domineering control freaks who will use anything in order to overpower someone. I don't even get into non-con fiction because of it, and I thoroughly hate the term "broken." It does something to my spirit to be overwhelmed and overpowered in that way; IMO, it's only a couple of cuts away from rape.

And before some of you start coming out with the anti-rape comparisons, this is my opinon of how I would feel in this scenario. That person would NEVER touch me again, I promise you!!!

 

[Ticklish_tigres]

Are you a Steelers fan?

you could come to Pittsburgh for a visit?

 

[Mastertank1]

Among others

Are you a Steelers fan?

Jets, Giants, Steelers, Panthers (Carolina, not the Pitt Panthers college team).
In that order. Born and raised in NYC, traveled the world, lived in North Carolina for 2 years, now reside in Pittsburgh. Big football fan.
All-city defensive tackle (in NYC) in 1963 and 1964. Could have gone to college on a full athletic scholarship, but was too young to play college ball without a parents signature, and mom was scared I'd get hurt. As if.
So I ended up working as a bodyguard to support mom and kid brother and put him and me through college. (Dad died when I was 15, leaving me the man of the house.)
At 16 I stood 6'1", weighed a solid 270, and had a full beard/moustache, and ran the 100 yard in 10.7 seconds in full equipment, repeatedly. Back then, that was big even for a pro lineman, for college it would've been immense, but moms will be moms, and she thought her little boy might get hurt.

 

[Ticklish_tigres]

How young are you now?

I have been a Steeler's fan for a long time. I liked the 49ers when Montana played. I started liking football back in school when I was cheer leader for a bit. How young are you?

Jets, Giants, Steelers, Panthers (Carolina, not the Pitt Panthers college team).
In that order. Born and raised in NYC, traveled the world, lived in North Carolina for 2 years, now reside in Pittsburgh. Big football fan.
All-city defensive tackle (in NYC) in 1963 and 1964. Could have gone to college on a full athletic scholarship, but was too young to play college ball without a parents signature, and mom was scared I'd get hurt. As if.
So I ended up working as a bodyguard to support mom and kid brother and put him and me through college. (Dad died when I was 15, leaving me the man of the house.)
At 16 I stood 6'1", weighed a solid 270, and had a full beard/moustache, and ran the 100 yard in 10.7 seconds in full equipment, repeatedly. Back then, that was big even for a pro lineman, for college it would've been immense, but moms will be moms, and she thought her little boy might get hurt.

 

[BikerBadBoy]

Sorry Amnesiac but I have to disagree with you on one point; not everyone can cut off their ticklishness when they're angry or fearful. To some of us it is a pure neurological response to the tickling. In other words, we'd laugh whether we wanted to or not. It's happened to me more times than I ever wanted to go through-I absolutely hate to be tickled in a negative situation. It's the ultimate power play and I hate domineering control freaks who will use anything in order to overpower someone. I don't even get into non-con fiction because of it, and I thoroughly hate the term "broken." It does something to my spirit to be overwhelmed and overpowered in that way; IMO, it's only a couple of cuts away from rape.

And before some of you start coming out with the anti-rape comparisons, this is my opinon of how I would feel in this scenario. That person would NEVER touch me again, I promise you!!!

I agree with you that not everyone can cut it off when they want. I have, and I'm sure many other "lers" have tickled those who cannot cut it off. They will laugh as long as you tickle them. If they are bound, they have no escape of course. Which leads me to my main point of the thread. Is it torture if the lee enjoys being tickled? All lees have their own limits but do lers prefer to tickle those you can't stand being tickled as opposed to a lee who actually enjoys it? One "lee" told another "lee" one time that the "lee" is in charge. When this lee told me this I said WHAT? Not with me! I will tickle the lee until I am through not the other way around. That's what got me into this thought process to begin with.

 

[sabaki]

One "lee" told another "lee" one time that the "lee" is in charge. When this lee told me this I said WHAT? Not with me!

Same here. If the lee were in control, I'd just be a big human-shaped tool for their own pleasure. It would get old fast.

It's not that I'm opposed to serving someone else. It's just that for me, the tickler is the one in charge. Imposing your will on someone else is the whole appeal of it. And if they can't stand it, it's all the more intense, and all the more fun.

 

[BikerBadBoy]

Same here. If the lee were in control, I'd just be a big human-shaped tool for their own pleasure. It would get old fast.

It's not that I'm opposed to serving someone else. It's just that for me, the tickler is the one in charge. Imposing your will on someone else is the whole appeal of it. And if they can't stand it, it's all the more intense, and all the more fun.

Exactly. In fact turning a lee into one who likes it into one who is begging for it to stop because she no longer can bear it is also part of the appeal.

 

[50greg]

Sorry Amnesiac but I have to disagree with you on one point; not everyone can cut off their ticklishness when they're angry or fearful. To some of us it is a pure neurological response to the tickling. In other words, we'd laugh whether we wanted to or not. It's happened to me more times than I ever wanted to go through-I absolutely hate to be tickled in a negative situation. It's the ultimate power play and I hate domineering control freaks who will use anything in order to overpower someone. I don't even get into non-con fiction because of it, and I thoroughly hate the term "broken." It does something to my spirit to be overwhelmed and overpowered in that way; IMO, it's only a couple of cuts away from rape.

And before some of you start coming out with the anti-rape comparisons, this is my opinon of how I would feel in this scenario. That person would NEVER touch me again, I promise you!!!

Lots of good stuff there, kissypoo. I am really pleased you'd trust me with your trussed body-- and intrigued by these hints at how ticklish you really are. 🙂

 

[Mastertank1]

I was born old

I have been a Steeler's fan for a long time. I liked the 49ers when Montana played. I started liking football back in school when I was cheer leader for a bit. How young are you?

Actually I just turned 58 (and several stomachs) on September 18.
I skipped one grade in grade school and another in Junior High (equivalent to middle school) and graduated High School three months before I turned 16.
Earned a triple Bachelor Of Arts (History/Economics/Political Science) at age 19.
I was a wierd kid.
I'm a LOT wierder now!

 

[kis123]

I agree with you that not everyone can cut it off when they want. I have, and I'm sure many other "lers" have tickled those who cannot cut it off. They will laugh as long as you tickle them. If they are bound, they have no escape of course. Which leads me to my main point of the thread. Is it torture if the lee enjoys being tickled? All lees have their own limits but do lers prefer to tickle those you can't stand being tickled as opposed to a lee who actually enjoys it? One "lee" told another "lee" one time that the "lee" is in charge. When this lee told me this I said WHAT? Not with me! I will tickle the lee until I am through not the other way around. That's what got me into this thought process to begin with.

This is the main reason I haven't allowed any bondage; there is no way I'd submit that much trust and control to anyone. The mere thought of the ler tickling me until their through just frightens me. What if I want it to stop and the ler doesn't because he/she isn't through? Do you just keep going without concern to the lee? Where would that leave me-at your mercy? Then the lee is simply a tickle toy for the ler to play with to his/her heart's content? Sorry, that's not a place I'd like to be.

 

[BikerBadBoy]

This is the main reason I haven't allowed any bondage; there is no way I'd submit that much trust and control to anyone. The mere thought of the ler tickling me until their through just frightens me. What if I want it to stop and the ler doesn't because he/she isn't through? Do you just keep going without concern to the lee? Where would that leave me-at your mercy? Then the lee is simply a tickle toy for the ler to play with to his/her heart's content? Sorry, that's not a place I'd like to be.

But that is part of the excitement for some "lees". If you are different then that can be discussed ahead of time before a session with your "ler". I'm not saying all sessions end up with the "ler" tickling the "lee" until they are through and the "lee" is bound and has no say in when it ends. That is the way I happen to prefer tickling. However, most "lers" are flexible and will adapt to a particular "lees" desires. So if you do not prefer to be bound and enjoy either sensual or playful tickling, that's fine too.

 

[kis123]

Ok, I can roll.....

But that is part of the excitement for some "lees". If you are different then that can be discussed ahead of time before a session with your "ler". I'm not saying all sessions end up with the "ler" tickling the "lee" until they are through and the "lee" is bound and has no say in when it ends. That is the way I happen to prefer tickling. However, most "lers" are flexible and will adapt to a particular "lees" desires. So if you do not prefer to be bound and enjoy either sensual or playful tickling, that's fine too.

Ok, I can get with this!

If it's something that is negotiated between partners, that's a different story. One of my big tickle fears is to end up with someone that would violate me once I was restrained. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that image out of my head. That's why I don't even read non-con fiction; it's just more than I'm able to handle right now.

BTW, good response-I usually get my head handed back to me when I bring this issue up. 🙂

 

[911]

I can only think about tickling a woman at this point but I would be more excited if she hated it and just couldn't help but laugh. A woman bound, sreaming, threating, laughing, then pleading for mercy, there's nothing hotter then that.

 

[BikerBadBoy]

Ok, I can get with this!

If it's something that is negotiated between partners, that's a different story. One of my big tickle fears is to end up with someone that would violate me once I was restrained. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get that image out of my head. That's why I don't even read non-con fiction; it's just more than I'm able to handle right now.

BTW, good response-I usually get my head handed back to me when I bring this issue up. 🙂

Well the first thing is to meet and establish a realtionship with someone you can TRUST. If you trust that person to not violate you then you can share an erotic tickle session with you bound knowing he will not violate you. Again, if you prefer not to be bound then that is your perrogative.

BTW, you did NOT get your head handed back to you. We are simply coming to a mutual understanding. Express yourself. I learn something every day from the forum.

 

[kis123]

BTW, you did NOT get your head handed back to you. We are simply coming to a mutual understanding. Express yourself. I learn something every day from the forum.

That was the point, BBB-I know I didn't have my head handed back to me. But I have a lot of run-ins with non-con fans. I was just making a statement to the opposite in our little exchanges.

 

[theniteavenger]

the lee has to enjoy it or at least not object to having her limits pushed; other wise well for me forcing someone to do something is just wrong. It would upset me when my girlfriend said she really didnt want to but did it for me