Tickling "Cult" Update

[drew70]

Okay, my turn to weigh in.

It makes a lot of sense to me, this idea of a more clearly defined tickling community, and it also makes sense that Max, an already established pioneer would be the one to think of it. The biggest advantage he has going with this idea is the fact that tickling in and of itself is not sexual. The only way I could see this idea to actually gain ground with mainstream America is to divorce tickling from sex altogether, at least as far as the group's ideals are concerned.

The next issue that occurs to me is the finances. Making it a religion offers enormous tax benefits. That's why Scientologists refer to their organization as the "Church of Scientology." It allows them to keep 100% of their proceeds. But it took them years to get their tax-exempt status. You'll need a lot of support, both legally and financially to make that happen.

The heirarchical structure needs to be a little better defined. What benefits are there to progressing to the next level? Are they strictly spiritual benefits, or do Lers of a higher level get granted liscence to tickle those of the lower levels?

 

[ShadowTklr]

Okay, my turn to weigh in.

It makes a lot of sense to me, this idea of a more clearly defined tickling community, and it also makes sense that Max, an already established pioneer would be the one to think of it. The biggest advantage he has going with this idea is the fact that tickling in and of itself is not sexual. The only way I could see this idea to actually gain ground with mainstream America is to divorce tickling from sex altogether, at least as far as the group's ideals are concerned.

Yes. This is how you create the false philosophy necessary to indoctrinate those weak-minded followers whom you will eventually abuse as a matter of your divine right doctrine.

The next issue that occurs to me is the finances. Making it a religion offers enormous tax benefits. That's why Scientologists refer to their organization as the "Church of Scientology." It allows them to keep 100% of their proceeds. But it took them years to get their tax-exempt status. You'll need a lot of support, both legally and financially to make that happen.

Of course. If you’re going to perpetrate a lie against society, you might as well make it a really big one. And nothing says lie like embezzlement and fraud.

The heirarchical structure needs to be a little better defined. What benefits are there to progressing to the next level? Are they strictly spiritual benefits, or do Lers of a higher level get granted liscence to tickle those of the lower levels?

Spiritual? Interesting.
Who becomes the all-knowing benefactor of the enlightened doctrine of tickle wisdom?
Also, if the benefits are “license to tickle those of the lower levels,” who decides which among you has less rights than others?
Who is responsible for mandating the use of someone else’s body for the pleasure of those at higher levels?
Who will police the activities of others within the community?
Who will administer punishment to those who have transgressed?
Who will decide which laws to institute and for whom these laws shall govern?
Who will decide which member is worthy of progressing up the food chain, and who is not?
Who will bear the responsibility of falsifying books and tax records to justify religious status?
Who will be the guru - the high priest(ess) who will indoctrinate these lies to newcomers?
And, when more money is needed (as it always is), who will be required to recruit through lies and deceipt, those next batch of saps needed to acquire their money?

Answer these questions, and you will have found your false prophet(s).
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.[/COLOR

 

[MaxSpeer]

Arf?

 

[LeeAllure]

The folks who think this is a good idea should (and will) make
plans to follow through with their vision, in the best possible
way for them to do so.

Those who fear what the folks who will, will do, are welcome
to comment. They shouldn't expect that negativity and
misunderstanding and fear that there will be embezzlebent
and fraud, and other atrocities, will be given much weight.

There are always folks willing to be negative about innovative
and different ideas, and people who can't see the fun and
potential joy in creating something.

Knowing the folks talking about this idea fairly well, and for a
fairly long time, I'm pretty sure that it will be a well developed
and laid out plan, which will succeed.

As always, not everyone will want to participate, nor will be
invited to.

Lee

 

[Strider]

I must say, I'm actually intrigued.

 

[MaxSpeer]

Well said, Lee. As one who knows us more than anyone else, you fully understand that we would never enter into anything without thinking it and rethinking it and re-rethinking it.

As I said at the beginning of this post months ago, the seeds of this thinking sprouted back many years ago when Kittletown was being written and conceived.

In my opinion, the people that have represented "us", and there have been a few, have fallen short and their attempts have only created ridicule. That is because they tried to stand alone with their own 'cause' without the presence of the Community from which they represented.

Even after our family is up and functional, I believe that we should try and stay away from integrating into the mainstream with our philosophy for quite some time. That way, the machine is in place and we have a solid foundation in which we could speak with fluency and wisdom.

The term "cult" has been given many negative images over the years. As I stated in a previous post, for me, "cult" (in this case) is short for "culture".

When I started out as a musician, I thought that spiritual beliefs and music were 2 elements of myself. Now, many years later, I believe that I achieve a spiritual uplifting through music. I have learned to integrate this aspect in my life. If we believe that we are all spiritual beings, then it only goes to show that our spiritual nature will shine through in everything we do. It is no news that, when we feel physically good, we feel mentally and emotionally good, and more connected. It only goes to show that in the expression of Tickling, we achieve these heights. When we achieve these heights, we feel spiritually fulfilled. We are more connected. Being connected we are constructive and creative.

Furthermore, as we have found time and time again at NEST, when we are connected to others who share this passion, we feel uplifted, euphoric, elated, open-hearted, loving.

Unless you just came out from under a rock, you have checked out the seemingly endless stream of post-NEST conversation. This is not the empty bantering of a few fanatics. It's undeniable proof that the assembling of our Community in a real-life environment creates happiness and contentment, not to mention a serious influx of laughter.

And the discussion continues....

Max

 

[Goodieluver]

Ive never understood the appeal of wanting tickling to be publically accepted and mainstreamed so to speak. Then again, i dont understand why people are obsessed if "insert actresses name here" is ticklish or not

If u want a utopia, go to one of the hedonism islands\resorts

 

[P_Bustleton]

I was thinking about introducing a good friend to the TMF, but now I'm having serious second thoughts. This cult thing would really creep her out. I think I'll wait until it passes (which I hope will be soon... but it seems threads mixing tickling and religion seem to stick around)

Max, your visions of grandeur for the tickling community are entertaining, but I believe they should remain a fantasy. I agree that there should be a push for tickling to become more accepted; I don't think a hierarchecal club is the way to do it. (Here I am sounding like a liberal bumbler... I promised myself I would never use the word "hierarchecal")

Max, I admire your creativity; your stories have been favorites of mine for many years. Please don't scare people away by turning this hobby/fetish/love we share into the Freemasons.

-Paul

And yes, I'm originally from the "great northeast" 😉

 

[FeatherFeet]

Is everyone here so stupid they cannot see this is a lose lose no matter what way you look at it?

Say for a second that it becomes the greatest organization in the world, huge and thousands and millions of people start to follow it. So what? All you've doen is make another religion, which means all you would do is add even more controversy to an already beaten down world. Even if it didnt become a relgion it would be known world wide and then what? It would be seen as a religion like cult thing to the normal person, and then it would probably keep average people from tickling out of pure fear of it. Remember the whole domino affect thing? And that is just in the good scenario, I'm not even going to go into the bad scenario because I think you could picture that.

Either way, any sort of oganization that invovles "punishment!" of it's members is a cult, not a club. And don't say its no different from hazing, because hazing is harmless, your talking about tickling without safe words which is some people's hands is no less than torture. So if that were to happen you are either going to need to have people sign a release form that you can do whatever you want to their bodies, or if brought out in public people are going to see this as a form os sexual harrasment mind rape at the very least if you start with the punishment, and in a religiouos, spiritual type setting for an excuse of this? Are you kidding me? This is nothing more than people using religion and gods as an excuse to excite themselves and that's exactly what this is. So many people are falling for it because all peole are seeing is that they would get to tickle and be tickled and they aren't looking two feet in front of their faces and looking at all the resounding negative reprocusissions that totally inexplicable and without a doubt OUTWEIGHT the good of this idea. Even if you win, you totally and completly lose. there is no happy ending scenario at all.

Lets face it, in todays world there are alot of prejiduces against alot of things, fetishes included, I've never been one for caring what others thought of me, but im sure some people here do. Tickling may be easyer to live with than being gay or have a sadistic fetish, but if you start soemthing like that, you are going to make tickling TABOO across the globe. Because everyone whose mind is not infected with the idea of 'tickle utopia" is going to see it as something very twisted and very weird and something the average person would keep far far away from. You wanna seclude yourselves even more? Have fun.

 

[Goodieluver]

I was thinking about introducing a good friend to the TMF, but now I'm having serious second thoughts. This cult thing would really creep her out. I think I'll wait until it passes (which I hope will be soon... but it seems threads mixing tickling and religion seem to stick around)

Max, your visions of grandeur for the tickling community are entertaining, but I believe they should remain a fantasy. I agree that there should be a push for tickling to become more accepted; I don't think a hierarchecal club is the way to do it. (Here I am sounding like a liberal bumbler... I promised myself I would never use the word "hierarchecal")

Max, I admire your creativity; your stories have been favorites of mine for many years. Please don't scare people away by turning this hobby/fetish/love we share into the Freemasons.

-Paul

And yes, I'm originally from the "great northeast" 😉

Heh, a davinci like code for tickling....lol, the secret is the infamous truth of "was tickling ever used as a method of real torture" or "The truth behind nonconsentual" or even "is "insert female celeb name" ticklish?"!

As for your friend, bring her along,let her make her own assessment as to things. I only belong to one cult, well two tech, the cult of me and the cult of metal.

 

[Derrida]

Great, some people want to try another lifestyle, and we've got the After School Special Squad rushing out to stop them from talking about it in public.

I've heard about strange fetish lifestyles before! People in BDSM clubs becoming slaves and getting whipped and paying large amounts of their income for the privilege! Surely the Emancipation Proclaimation prevents this! Somebody call the police! Call the coast guard! Call somebody! The Church of the Subgenius called itself a cult, too, and look what happened there! I don't think ANYONE will forget the 2004 X-Day massacre.

Folks, understand that this forum has a heirarchy that "punishes" members for acting out. Your government, depending on where you live, probably does the same. Maybe it also demands "dues" from your income. Have you run off screaming yet? I haven't, but it sounds an awful lot like sexual harassment mind rape (?) to me!

 

[toneus79]

What I find scary about this whole cult idea, is that members of the TMF are likely to find themselves tracked down and kidnapped by the cult organisers, and forced to take part in this whole Tickling thing. Next thing you know we will all be forced to wear orange and shave our heads.

Double Scary

 

[Capnmad]

Great, some people want to try another lifestyle, and we've got the After School Special Squad rushing out to stop them from talking about it in public.

Great, we've got people who would rather ridicule those who recommend reason and restraint than wish they advocate safety or engage them in civil debate. 🙄

The fact is, that if this proposal is taken seriously as an alternative lifestyle as some suggest, the planning details were taking on features beyond most anything you use as comparison. And whereas some defenders descriptions sounded quite feasible, there was often a great disparity between their view and the details discussed here. To re-use an analogy I made on the "Beware - Beware" thread, there's a difference between buying "Cat Fancy" and joining a secret organization under a high priest to worship Bast.

Cite BDSM clubs, The Church of the Sub-Genius, X-day 2004, the government, and even the forum, and I'll cite Waco, Jonestown, and the Mormon fundamentalists led by charismatic leader Warren Jeffs under whom I'm sure everyone's perfectly happy, and no one wants to leave. 🙄

Citing examples that simply support your own reasoning without addressing the opposing views doesn't get one anywhere, and you neglect the facts that this would draw from forum members and as proposed, would be on a path to continue evolving a more centralized power structure (with "penances" to be paid, presumably to those of the higher "circles" and "rings") unlike what we've seen here on the forum and unlike the more mundane examples you cite. I'm sure at one time, joining the Branch Davidians looked like a good idea full of promise too. Now, I don't mean to make this a reductio ad Koresh-um, but you see where such argument styles lead. And on the government analogy, one could liken what's been happening under the Bush administration as a very mild form of efforts to centralize power, and depending upon where you stand politically, you will have a view on where that has gotten us.

Personally, were I to take sides, I'd always side with those advocating safety than those ridiculing it. As it is, I was only offering a critique of the proposed power structure as I saw some glaring flaws and potential for abuse. I was hardly alone in this assessment. If something like this were to become anything more than an inside joke among friends, or more than theoretical, these concerns should be taken seriously. I'm not trying to "stop" anyone from anything.

That said, the discussion, near as I can tell, has run its course, and while it remains unresolved, it appears for the most part concluded. Though, alas, the valid concerns were enough to convince one valued member of the forum to consider leaving, if not in fact following through (time will tell). You may see, therefore, that it is perhaps better to address such concerns and treat them as substantial and influential on the character of the community, rather than greet them with ridicule. Then again, you may not. That I'll leave with you.

I consider myself a safe player and will always advocate safety over what can too easily grow into a genuine abusive removal of choice rather than a simulated one. And I don't think that's something to be ridiculed. 🙂

I think the fact that this blew up like it did is also a testament to the fact that it behooves secret organizations to remain secret. 😉 Good luck and good reason to all in whatever decisions you make.

Best to all. 😀

 

[FeatherFeet]

Great, some people want to try another lifestyle, and we've got the After School Special Squad rushing out to stop them from talking about it in public.

I've heard about strange fetish lifestyles before! People in BDSM clubs becoming slaves and getting whipped and paying large amounts of their income for the privilege! Surely the Emancipation Proclaimation prevents this! Somebody call the police! Call the coast guard! Call somebody! The Church of the Subgenius called itself a cult, too, and look what happened there! I don't think ANYONE will forget the 2004 X-Day massacre.

Folks, understand that this forum has a heirarchy that "punishes" members for acting out. Your government, depending on where you live, probably does the same. Maybe it also demands "dues" from your income. Have you run off screaming yet? I haven't, but it sounds an awful lot like sexual harassment mind rape (?) to me!

chosen slavery doesnt make it any less than it is, slavery. for starters, in some countries, people actually sign away their lives to murder business. where do you think the concept for HOSTEL came from? Its an actual organization based i think in taiwan , except the victims were willing, because their families were so poor they needed the moeny so they sign their lives away to be killed. Do you consider that a good thing? God help you if you do.

Just because someone is stupid enough to let the sexual pleasure of being a slave cause them to sign or sell away their freedom doesnt make it a good thing. I mean, people make a bigger deal out of it when people choose to smoke, since it is a way of commiting suicide, and thats far less obvious than actually doing what you're talking about doing.

Oh, and now in addition to a relgious thing, this tickling cult is going to be a government? Hm....yes, tickling is so worthy of being the central cause for a government simply because it turns us on or excites us. Hmm, maybe every givernment in the world should be based around sexual pleasures and what everyone loves, because you know THAT would be a really responsible government that really cares about the people. totally. So we should treat this cult as one day having as much power as our own government with laws and they demmand taxes and all that? Hhuh? So in addition to religion based around sexual pleasure we're going to join the UN and become a world power? right, a sexual pleasure club is worth that and should without a doube be compared to it. I mean lets look at all of the things:

Governments are based around what erouses you,
Governments always punish it's citizens by torture without safewords or mercy which would depending on who you are, either turn you on greatly or cause you serious mental damage.
Governments also take the idea that created them an base it into spirutality and religion. You know, cuz the united states surely has a religion based on freedom that doesnt restrict things like against gay marrage or stem cell research at all, (at least if you take religion as interpreted by bush)

So you've got a sound argument there don't ya?

 

[Ace Riley]

I'm not gonna join the above arguement, it's counter-productive, seriously.

Max, friend, I have never met you nor Lee nor Jeff, although I emailed Jeff after his first video and we traded some messages here and there. You've come a LONG way Jeff! 🙂

Being a soldier, I find it hard to find the time to go to NEST and other gatherings, to meet you all. I won't be a soldier forever, and I made a pact with myself, that when I finish this tour that I will make the journey, the comments in this thread about NEST is definately a driving factor.

Max, you and Jeff, have an intense charisma in this forum. Charisma, will be the driving factor for any organization, or club of this type. Most people, though, to trust you, must know you, and I think the best way to do this, is when you have the details down perhaps talk about it in the next big gathering. Raise a glass, and have those listen to you in meeting. Not everyone will follow you, this is obvious, but if your intentions are honest, people will find something to beleive in.

This is not a religion, no, but, tickling in itself carries much physical and I think emotional philosophy. Nobody has ever, truly, put this into words, written a book or essay, in which people can read, and follow and put their own weight on it. I know, that to me, tickling is deeply sexual, but what enlightens me sexually about the subject goes deeper. When one tickles or is tickled, the effects can vary, but I think we all can agree it brings us to a certain emotional 'center', one that very few people can understand.

Most of us, may have battled it in our minds as something 'dark' to shy away from, this desire of ours. Others accepted it right away. It wasn't until the TMF came, and showed that there were people out there BRAVE enough to open the door and shine light into this dark corner of ours, that we realised, we are not alone... we were never alone!

...but the TMF, may only be the beginning. The gatherings, an introduction. I know I'm not alone, but I still feel the yearning to branch out. I see the door, but no way to get to it.

Max, as a speaker for this, when you can, perhaps you can release an audio file, perhaps you speaking, honestly, about this, maybe with your peers, your beleifs on what it should mean, what it should represent, even if none of this comes about, I want to hear someone who beleives in this regardless of the conflictive opinions of others. For steel does not mold without the fiery embers of passion, and no blade is born without the striking hammers of effort.

You, Jeff, Lee and others here, are the foundation of our awakening, and others who have left us in the years past.

...now we need to see who here will take the next step. It doesn't have to be open to the world. It always HAS been open to the world. Anyone can click on the TMF link and see what we see, but it doesn't mean they can SEE... what we see. Cater to those with the hearts to follow, and let those that wish to come, to come.

I'm beyond intrigued.

 

[FeatherFeet]

I'm beyond intrigued.

im sure the German people were as well when Hitler took power.
Then again being a soldier you're probably use to signing your life away for things you might not nessicarily believe in.

 

[Ace Riley]

im sure the German people were as well when Hitler took power.
Then again being a soldier you're probably use to signing your life away for things you might not nessicarily believe in.

Well, I'm quite shocked at your reaction to this. Quite frankly, what scares you about this? The concept of people looking at life in a different perspective scares you so much as to compare it to Hitler? ...ahem.

What does tickling mean to you, and how does that opinion make it weigh so much as to counter the desires of people beleiving in more than mere giggles and squirms? Have you ever, ever connected with a group of people who understand you so well that you no longer have to put a level of doubt over every single action one decides to do in a day?

Is the idea of trust such a foreign concept to you? I don't know where you're coming from, I don't, and I don't want to pretend to assume to know who you are. Although I would love to before making assumptions about your lifestyle as you already have done to me, without knowing a thing about me.

But keep in mind, not everyone lives in a clout of mistrust and seldom spoken secrets. Some people, share their lives with others with relative joy. I'm a soldier, I didn't sign my life away to anything. Not for the flag, not for pride in country, those my friend are bonuses to me to wearing the uniform. I signed because I wanted a jumpstart to life. Life, is a beautiful thing to me, and I beleive in those things that make me happy in my day.

This wonderful forum, and the people that inhabit it, are a part of what make me breath every day, wake up every morning. If Max, and those that without their knowing already fill my day with light decide to come together, to bring this passion to a new height, yes, I will sign my 'life' away, if that is your perogative in saying. Because there are things in life worth beleiving... trust me.

...or don't.

 

[venray]

When all arguments fail....compare em to Hitler....whatever works for you I guess.... 🙂

 

[Ace Riley]

When all arguments fail....compare em to Hitler....whatever works for you I guess.... 🙂

Congrats on your 14000'th post Venray. 🙂 LOL You addict.

 

[LeeAllure]

When all arguments fail....compare em to Hitler....whatever works for you I guess.... 🙂

It's such a popular thing to do, that it has it's own law!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Lee

 

[Ace Riley]

It's such a popular thing to do, that it has it's own law!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Lee

...man, if only I had Wikipedia in High School. 🙂

Hey, Lee, thanks for helping making this thread. Remember, most good things in life worth fighting for, are usually the victims of hell and brimstones for those that are unwilling to make the sacrifice to put forth effort.

As a soldier, I've received praise for my service and disdain for crimes in Iraq I never touched while trying to buy coffee at a 7-eleven. (Awkward? Oh yeah...) It's easy to judge someone, simply based on what they choose to beleive in life.

However, that with purpose, with an honest-to-god direction, stands adamantly to the sands of time. Don't give up hun'. ^.~

 

[FeatherFeet]

i notice no one has actually attacked my argument itself, they simply accuse me of not trusting people.

tickling means alot to me, but it doesnt run my entire life and i wouldnt give up money (save 5.99 for clips) or my life for it.

 

[venray]

tickling means alot to me, but it doesnt run my entire life and i wouldnt give up money (save 5.99 for clips) or my life for it.

Nor has anyone asked you to or compared you to a facist...... 🙄

 

[TickleWolf]

I was , and I still am interested in this. It just sounds like it can be fun, and bring people into tickling together. I'm mature enough to know if I don't like something. I haven't joined any REAL cults yet, and never will.

 

[Derrida]

im sure the German people were as well when Hitler took power.
Then again being a soldier you're probably use to signing your life away for things you might not nessicarily believe in.

And here I was afraid this thread wouldn't deliver.

Look out folks, Max Speer is Hitler! He's going to march you into the laughing gas chambers!