To all Episode I bashers...

[strokeofgenius2]

With the release of Star Wars, Episode II just around the corner, I just gotta ask...

All you people who slam Episode I relentlessly, was it really that bad?? Give me a break. I thought Episode I was an awesome action flick, with cool characters, a good story and fit in nicely into the Star Wars universe. All I keep hearing is "I hope part 2 is better than the first piece of crap" or "This one better be better than the last sucky movie"; like I said...give me a freakin' break. Enough with all the negativity. I got a cool e-mail with reasons why Episode I was cool (which I can't find right now), so let me paraphrase as best as I can:

SOME REASONS EPISODE I WAS A GREAT FLICK

It looked awesome -- People said George Lucas broke his own rules by giving a lot more attention to background and scenery instead of story. That's up for debate, but you have to admit...the scenery was downright cool. The underwater city, the Jedi Council chamber, pod race; all visually breathtaking.

For a 'set-up' flick, it did darn good -- Remember that Episode I is (technically) the first of SIX movies. That's a lot of story to set up and characters to introduce. Lucas kind of had it easy because everyone already knows the characters, so there wasn't a whole lot of "This is Yoda, the Jedi Master; he is very strong with the Force and likes tacos and walks on the beach..." Lucas could get away with sort of 'presenting' the characters, but seeing as how they have five more movies to grow, this first film did fine for intros.

Anakin -- Yep, believe it or not, it was refreshing to see Anakin as a wide-eyed kid who seemed nothing but innocence. What did people expect, a kid who had hatred burning through his eyes and was always ready to go out and mug old ladies? Becoming Darth Vader is a 'progression'. As for the "acting" of the kid who played him...he's a kid. If you're gonna slam a kid's performance in a movie, you're just mean.

We got Jedi knights right off the bat -- Wasn't it cool to see Jedis fighting with lightsabres in the first few minutes of the flick? (Anyone else like that "invisible shove" thing they do...just point your hand at something and down it goes...man, I need that thing for some people I know.)

Darth Maul -- This guy had moves, huh? That guy wielded that double-edged lightsabre with real finesse. Very martial-arts-like. Those who complain Darth Maul was not in the film enough, I'm reminded of a great show biz adage: "Always leave them wanting more." And speaking of lightsabres....

The Lightsabre Duel -- In this corner, Qui-Jon Jing and Obi-Wan Kenobi; in the other corner, Darth Maul; what a battle! If you slow down and watch the fight in slow-motion, you can see how cool some of the moves were. Personal fave: just after Qui-Jon is killed, Obi-Wan breaks out from behind the force field to attack Darth Maul; that little exchange between them is incredibly fast, yet incredibly graceful. Very cool fighting scene.

The ending dialogue -- "But which was destroyed; the master or the apprentice?" Anyone else get chills?

Guess what I want to say is, Episode I was a great flick. And the trailers for Episode II look un-freakin-believeable. May the Force be with you.

 

[strtbottomjim]

"Meesa gigantic Rastafarian froggy on LSDsa!"

 

[MadKalnod]

I don't think it was a bad film, there's just a lot of things I would have done differently if I had been in charge.

Anakin should have been at least 13-15 years old in Episode One. It would have been more believable if he got into the starfighter and flew to the battle because he was old enough to know what he was doing and chose to disobey Qui-Gon's orders to stay put, rather than just getting accidentally taken by autopilot to the most important spot in the Droid Control Ship so he could blow it up by blind luck. Also, the initial moves of the Anakin/Amidala romance shown here wouldn't have seemed as creepy. (Amidala and an eight-year-old? Eeeeeewww.......)

I would have made Anikin Qui-Gon's son. The virgin birth stuff is going places that Star Wars really shouldn't be going. Qui-Gon talks to Shmi with familiarity, as if he has some history with her. Imagine the potential for drama with that setup, as Qui-Gon bargains with Watto to save the woman he once loved, or the son he never knew he had, but he cannot save both... Also, when Obi-Wan places young Luke and Leia in hiding at the end of the third film, he could say "I failed your father, I failed your grandfather, but I will not fail you two..."

Jar Jar was the biggest mistake. I'm not opposed to the character in principle, but the problem is that he was in 3/4 of the film. How can you be comic relief if you outnumber the serious stuff you supposedly provide relief from by a 3 to 1 margin? I could have lived with his role cut down by anywhere from 2/3 to 3/4, and entirely without the time-wasting slapstick with the pit droid and the fart joke. Every moment Jar Jar was onscreen being a clown was time subtracted from the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan relationship. Since Obi-Wan shapes both Anakin and Luke, some more insight into what shaped him might have been relevant.

At the time, I thought killing Qui-Gon so early was a mistake. I would rather have kept him (and Darth Maul) around at least until the beginning of the second film, so that his death might be part of what pushes Anakin towards the Dark Side (Hello. My name is Anakin Skywalker. You killed my father. Prepare to die.) I am, however, willing to accept that it now appears that Qui-Gon's absence is a significant factor in creating the man who will be Vader, since Obi-Wan is more out of his depth raising the boy than he thinks.

I quite liked Darth Maul. After glacial, melodramatic villains like Vader and Palpatine, it was refreshing to see a cocky young hothead as a Sith Lord. Maul looks like he's having a blast with being bad. I liked the little bits of business he had during the final duel: Pacing like a hungry tiger on the other side of the shield, spoiling for a fight in contrast to Qui-Gon's unflappable meditation; and toying with Obi-Wan as he dangles off the ledge. Unlike Boba Fett, Maul was a "Silent Bad-Ass" villain who had actually done something to earn his rep and back up the hype.

I will admit that the Podrace scene was impressive in the theater. Between the THX Sound and the big screen, it did feel like you were there in the pilot's seat for much of the First-Person POV shots. I wouldn't have filmed the same points in each lap, though. We didn't need to see tham take that same sharp corner all three times. Also, the Tatooine scenes didn't quite fit the pacing of the rest of the film, they dragged noticably in places.

The effects and scenery were exquisite, but George has to realize that the actors and story come first. No wonder everybody looks like they were talking three feet past each others stomachs, nobody was on the set at the same time! Digital compositing is a wonderful tool, but I fear Lucas is too enamored of his new toys. ("He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil..")

 

[ShiningIce]

BAD THINGS ABOUT EPISODE 1:



1. Jar Jar Binks

2. Jar Jar Binks

3. Jar Jar Binks

4. Jar Jar Binks

5. Jar Jar Binks

6. Jar Jar Binks

7. Jar Jar Binks......................................................IS STILL ALIVE!!!!

 

[Dave2112]

Thanks for the thread, Stroke...I was going to post something similar to this. I agree that Ep I was bashed way too much, but I do agree that a few things could have been different.

A recent Time interview with Lucas indicated that he knew having a nine-year-old hero was kinda pushing it. I don't think he should have been older, but I do agree that he could have a bit more mlice and/or technical precision in the final starfighter battle. It was as if he'd blown up the Droid Control Ship by accident rather than through the begginings of unbelievable piloting skills.

I believe that Episode I is to Star Wars what The Hobbit was to Lord of the Rings. A set up for the real meat of the saga, but not absolutely neccesary.

The fight scenes were outstanding, and it was nice to see what Jedi could do in their prime. I disagree that Maul should have lived, because this gives Palpatine a reason to need a new apprentice.

And enough with the Jar-Jar bashing already. Yeah, he was dopey, but the Galaxy (and our world for that matter) are full of divergent races and peoples that aren't always predisposed to action and adventure, but rather get thrust into it unwillingly and still manage to get through. His scenes in the new film are brief, and actually it is Jar-Jar who provides the turning point in the progression of the saga, albeit unwittingly. Some have said that Jar-Jar bashing is simply a focal point of complaint for those who wanted to complain about the film anyway. I don't know if this is true, but he wasn't that bad. One person says it, then another...and before you know it, it's cool to bash the hippie Gungan. Thus is the way of the Internet. Oh well.

I think that after the release of AOTC, Episode I will be fun to revisit as the quaint prequel that it was intended to be.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

i liked it

i din't see it at first, cause i thoughtit would be patronizing, and camp. but turned out i loved it. the only star wars movie i liked more was the original. episode one was better than the 2nd, and 3rd of the original trilogy.
steve

 

[BigJim]

As a lover of all things Star Wars myself, I would like to pose a question. *prepares to receive a beating from all the other ST fans*

Am I the only person in the world who thinks that Mark Hamill isn't a good actor. I'm thinking particularly of his scene with Yoda in Return Of The Jedi, when he apologises for running off to Cloud City without completing his training. "I'm soorryy." When he has to act emotionally about something, it just doesn't seem convincing to me. Does anyone else think that? Or have I just started down the road to the Dark Side?

 

[Longbaugh]

I don't think it was that bad of a film(with exception of a few things,Jar Jar for instance, Gungan Battle at the end with Jar Jar's antics). Some things could have been done differently but overall I enjoyed it. I think once "Attack of the Clones" and Episode III have been released "The Phantom Menace" will fit nicely into the "Star Wars" Saga. It's important for people to remember it's one huge 12 hour story.

 

[primetime]

i have been to the Starwars website and noticed a bunch of posters bashing TPM. what is up with that? i liked that movie a lot. to me, it is a history lesson. remember when you saw Anakin? didnt you keep thinking to yourself "that little kid is Darth Vader!!". also, it was cool watching how Palpatine was beginning to manipulate his way into power. when Episode 4 came out, the Empire was already established and the Rebel Alliance was also established. i think it is kind of cool to see how it all began.

it is also cool to see how Darth Vader, father of Luke Skywalker, came to be. i have to give it to the kid, he was SMOOTH. did you see his pickup lines on Amidala? plus, i also think it is great to see who is the mother of Luke and Leia.

the only real complaint i had was that Darth Maul was a cameo. Maul looked awesome and the best visual in the movie to me was when he broke out his double-bladed lightsaber. that was just so awesome. too bad he had 3 lines and was killed.

Jar Jar was NOT that bad. why everyone bashes him is beyond me. he was really an interesting character. after watching the movie a jillion times, Jar Jar fits in nicely.

so why people bash TPM is just plain crazy. sit back and enjoy the show. plus Lucas is going to tell it his way anyway, so just enjoy the trilogy....damn, is it May 16 yet?

 

[maverick83]

Am I the only one who doesn't hate Jar Jar? I must agree, he's annoying, but his role is, more or less, comic relief, very much like Quina in Final Fantasy IX. (I apologize to any who haven't played FFIX, for that reference) Sure, he wasn't that funny. But he lightened the mood at some points. Without comic relief, can we truly appreciate, to the full extent, the serious parts? It's contrast. Also, my opinion is that beginning with Anakin at such a young age is vital to portraying his natural ability. To me, the fact that he's so young makes it that much more impressive. And finally, I found Episode I to be a great movie. But those who didn't are entitled to their opinions. Let 'em complain.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

just a quicky

I just wanted to say something quick, and i;ll post here again later. I think there;s a reason why luke didn't sound like he was sorry when he said sorry to Yoda for rushing to the cloud city. SImply, i don't think he really was sorry. Yes, things didn't turn out too well, but would they have been better if he hadn't gone?
I mean, him saying he's sorry he went to help his friends is kind'a like saying sorry to a teacher for quiting school to get a job so your family isn't out on the streets.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

 

[drkjedi458]

jar jar was funny for the first 10 or 15 minutes...the rest was just overkill in my opinion. my only other real complaint about episode 1 was the way darth maul died. im not gonna say nothin about the stupid way he just stood there and showered obiwan with sparks instead of force pushing him the rest of the way down the shaft cause obviously obiwan cant get killed yet. what really disappointed me tho was how after putting on the best lightsaber battle to date, he just stands there like a dummy while obiwan flips over him and cuts him in half. yeah right. that was just dumb. there would have been cooler ways for him to die then that. the only other question that popped in my mind was where was that speedy gonzales trick when obiwan was trying to get through the laser walls? hmmmm...maybe he kinda sorta accidently forgot how. i gotta agree on mark hamill's performance in return of the jedi. but the same can be said of half the cast. everybody just seemed like they was stoned or made out of wood or something. rotj is my least favorite out of all of them. i think if lucas had directed it himself it would have been a much better movie

 

[strtbottomjim]

I dunno if y'all realize it, but the guy that played Darth Maul was NOT an actor! Hence they didn't give him a lot of lines.

What happened was, that dude was hired as a martial arts scene co-orinator and consultant. He was never supposed to be on-screen. But the guy they hired for Maul couldn't fight worth a damn, the consultant was clearly doing the scenes about 10x better, so they stuck him in there. But I doubt they trusted his acting ability because he had no more experience there than any of US!

The results ROCKED, but that's why he was the "quiet sort"...

 

[buggs]

RE: Bad acting in Jedi

Hey Big Jim. My theory based on what I know was going on the set that contributed to RETURN OF THE JEDI bad performances

Regarding Mark Hamil’s performance in Return of the Jedi, you are right. For that matter, except for Ian McDiarmid, most of the performances lacked much effectiveness.. They’re where a few things to blame, although Lucas should have been more on the ball as most of this can be attributed to him. First off, and the biggest part of it, was his wife Marcia leaving him for a younger man. They were, as Spielberg put it, marriage insurance. They were the most loving, together couple around. And then up one day she takes off with a younger man. Lucas literally fell to pieces when it happened and never really got over it till years after. Also, contrary to what the title says, Richard Marquand (The director) was sick of something (I believe A.I.D.S, but it may have been cancer too) and not on the set a lot, so Lucas was left to direct a lot in the state that he was in. I got that bit of info. From a head of 20th Century fox that was on a show on the Sci-fi Channel the week the star wars redo came out. At that point, because of what he was going through in his life, he really wanted out of star wars. It was something he and his wife did together, and when she left, the love for making them wasn’t there. My understanding is he really resented having to continue to make the thing. You had Carrie Fisher heavily into drugs. Now Lucas considered her like a daughter. If any of you have seen the movie POST CARDS FROM THE EDGE, there is a scene where Sound Men rigged Streep's (who is playing Fisher, although Fisher never used her name for the character, but it is her memoirs written by her about her) trailer and are listening to Meryl’s character buy drugs from her dealer. The director picks up the earphones and hears what is going on, and, outraged, goes into the trailer with a baseball bat and threatens to kill the dealer if he ever sees her again. Then he threatens to kill Meryl’s character if she really wanted to kill herself by using drugs. Well that actually happened. The director was really Lucas, the actress really Fisher, and that happened on RETURN OF THE JEDI. Now my understanding is that 20th century was looking at the daily’s and seeing that the acting was poor, and things where not well, but the films are owned and financed by Lucas. Lucas sells 20th Century Fox the distribution rights. He had creative control, and their hands where tied. Basically, had none of that gone on, I think RETURN OF THE JEDI would have been a much more polished film. You also had Kasanjian producing instead of the guy who produced the first two with Lucas. I think he had an influence on reigning in Lucas, and also dealing with the directors. Kasanjian was just a line producer and pretty much nothing more. My big regret is that he didn’t play the card of any anger for Lando from Han Solo. I mean the guy sold him to the empire and had him frozen in carbonite for who knows how long, and after he is freed they are buddies again. That was a very big dramatic opportunity that was missed. Had Irvin Kirshner directed the film, we would have had a much more polished and darker film with the sincerity that he got from the very same actors in Empire.

Speaking of Empire, which is the best. But what was Lucas thinking of when he made Luke yell as he fell In Bespin city in the redo. The whole point of the scene was that Luke would rather give his life up than turn to the dark side. Btu in the new version, with him screaming, it just made him sound like he was being gung-ho. I was so disappointed with that. He took a flawless film and added a flaw. But then again, he thought Jar Jar Binks was a good idea too. Oh well.

 

[BigJim]

I dunno if y'all realize it, but the guy that played Darth Maul was NOT an actor! Hence they didn't give him a lot of lines.

What happened was, that dude was hired as a martial arts scene co-orinator and consultant. He was never supposed to be on-screen. But the guy they hired for Maul couldn't fight worth a damn, the consultant was clearly doing the scenes about 10x better, so they stuck him in there. But I doubt they trusted his acting ability because he had no more experience there than any of US!

The results ROCKED, but that's why he was the "quiet sort"...

That's true, the actor playing Darth Maul was an english martial artist by the name of Ray Parkes. (I think I may have spelt his surname wrongly.) An easy clue to the fact that he wasn't a bona fide' actor would be that his lines weren't actually spoken by him at all. They hired someone else to do a dubbed version of everything that Maul said.

 

[BigJim]

Re: just a quicky

I just wanted to say something quick, and i;ll post here again later. I think there;s a reason why luke didn't sound like he was sorry when he said sorry to Yoda for rushing to the cloud city. SImply, i don't think he really was sorry. Yes, things didn't turn out too well, but would they have been better if he hadn't gone?
I mean, him saying he's sorry he went to help his friends is kind'a like saying sorry to a teacher for quiting school to get a job so your family isn't out on the streets.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

Hmmm, I appreciate your point Cosmic, but that isn't what I really meant. I don't think Mark Hamill added that much depth to that scene because he wasn't sorry and just wanted to appear contrite for Yoda's sake; I think it was just because he isn't a good actor. If it wasn't for the fact that the original trilogy is the most famous set of films in the known galaxy, Mark Hamill would definatley be considered a "B" movie actor. Especially when it comes to displaying fervent emotions, which are of course the most difficult, Hamill just doesn't sell it.

I agree with you about Luke's feelings about his venture to Cloud City. I'm almost certain that he would'nt have regretted it for a second, but I don't think that's why Luke sounded so lame in that scene. *shrugs*

 

[Deleted member 2452]

jar jar binks was a pain, but...

... nothing was as bad as those little bear shit things, called ewoks, from the return of the jedi.
steve

 

[Terra_Ascension]

I loved Return of The Jedi in every way...it was action packed all the way...and yes I even loved The Ewoks...did you know those Ewoks spawned a whole cartoon series which I actually enjoyed watching as a kid too!

For all Episode I's "shortcomings", the final scenes made it well worth it!
If I there was one thing I think they could have done, it would be having some other bad dude start shit with Darth Maul when he was exploring Tatooine...like just have one scene where some local wise ass scum comes up to him (or several...maybe a gang) and starts causing shit and then obviously Darth Maul gets to demonstrate how potent he is on them!

Episode II is gonna ROCK!!!!!!!!! I have both previews on .avi and get shivers everytime I watch them!

TA

 

[coolman]

Jar Jar Binks DID bring the films quality down. Don't kid yourselfs.
The overall mood of the film was lighter than its predecessors, and JJB helped with this a lot. The set pieces were bright, the costumes were as well... there was no real 'darkness', just some poncey sith lord and his apprentice. In the later films we had an evil Intergalactic empire, and the emperor and vader.

Ep 2 will get rid of all this. The clones are coming, the darkside is starting to rise and the jedi are about to be wiped out. now that's scary. This is why we wont get jar jar in the 2nd film. He was ep1s selling point for the kids --- what are you gonna do, make a qui-gon doll? no. you make a jar jar doll.

And remeber the droids, they added the bit of surreality into the first trilogy and they might still be there.

These are all valid points and i wasn't dissapointed with ep1 at all. i think the cg fx were overused, the naboo fighters were more advanced inside than the tie fighters. this doesn't make sense! anyway, it was fun to watch.

i cant wait for ep2 at all. if lucas keeps up the quality this will be a great movie.

lol i like the bit at the end of ep 1:

"who was destroyed, the master, or the apprentice?" ... and the camera neatly pans to palpatine.

may the force be with you...

 

[Dave2112]

Coolman, very astute notice of the apparent higher level of technology in Ep I than earlier films, which were supposed to be in a later time. It has been said, though, that as the Galaxy suffered under the tyranny of the Empire, there was actually a drop in technology rather than a rise.

Remember that the pre-Empire Republic was something of a Golden Age, and Palpatine not only wiped out the Jedi, but also tok control of the HoloNet, limiting public access to nothing more than Imperial propaganda. A lot of history was lost when he came to power. Entire systems were strip-mined for their natural resources to build the superweapons and Navy of the Empire, and the resistance was left to cobble together bits and pieces of ships, bases, computers and weapons.

This is perhaps why the Empire was unprepared for a small fleet of X-Wings. The Incom Corporation was developing the advanced fighter for the Empire, when Alliance sympathizers from the company defected and handed over the ships to the Rebellion.

 

[Longbaugh]

Everything that Dave has stated above is correct(as usual). I also recall reading in one of my various "Star Wars" sourcebooks that the Tie-Fighters were built cheaply and mass produced. They were swarm vehicles. Palpatine wanted deadly starfighters but didn't what to put alot of resource into them. Ties had no hyperdrives and minnium life support systems(really no regard for the pilots). One Tie fighter alone is generally nothing to worry about, but alot of them can cause trouble. He went for quantity over quality. That's why Vader had a custimized Tie(with hyperdrive and alot of other goodies) he wouldn't get into a regular Tie fighter. Not pretty like earlier starfighters but functional and more importantly... cheap.

 

[Dave2112]

TIE's were also completely unshielded, which further showed the Empires regard for its soldiers and pilots.

 

[venray]

All I can say about ep I is ......

1..bad acting

2..poor choice of characters

3..lame storyline

4..put out by Lucas for the sole purpose of making money with no
regard to the fans who supported the original trilogy.

Don't get me wrong..I am grateful to George for Star Wars...If not for him, Science fiction might not have gotten that much needed boost
to make it popular again and Star Trek might never have come bact to TV..let alone the big screen,,,,,,,


Ven

 

[BigJim]

Well at last, the mysery is revealed. Dave has passed the barrier and his new title is...........Orange Feather? Oh deep joy, I was expecting something a bit more dynamic than that. How about 1st level Gold Feather?

 

[BigJim]

IMHO

Episode was no classic and I'd rate all three films from the classic trilogy above it. However, that said it was still an enjoyable watch and if nothing else it provided a backdrop to the meat of the story in Attack of the Clones and Fall From Grace.